Is this all just about hoping for The Big Pump so we can cash out to fiat and buy Lambos or are we actually trying to accomplish something here?
I just want my Lambo. But in all seriousness, technology will always be an arms race against governments and organizations trying to regulate and profit from it. We may win some battles, but I doubt there will ever be a time where we can sit back and live happily ever after with a perfectly incorruptible form of money. |
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Great post americanpegasus, informative reading. But what about other, "better" (faster maybe? TPS?), anonymous solutions, let's say Emunie or maybe even TPTB's coin if he manages to make it. Is that no worry for you?  Why should it be a "worry" for anyone? If something ever does come along that renders Monero obsolete, then I'll diversify my investments accordingly. I would also be thrilled that such amazing, next-level technology is available. And the developers and contributors shouldn't "worry" about their hard work being for naught, as you have to do something first before you can ever do it better. That's progress. |
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Some responses from AnonyMint/TPTB_need_war: Regarding the posts in this thread, first I need to see if the Monero cryptographer has already solved the design. And also my anonymity white paper "Zero Knowledge Transactions" is unpublished because it was going to be used first in Ion, and it has had no peer review so it is possible it has an error, but I combed over it numerous times and so I don't think so (but it is possible and that is what peer review is for). As for price, I haven't thought about it yet and will do. I expended some weeks on that. I assume I am at smooth's caliber (although I think he is more active lately in coding because he is younger and not ill) in terms of my experience and past compensation, thus something on the order of $100-300 per hour. In 2001, I was earning $30,000 per month, so that is roughly $363 per hour as my opportunity cost inflation-adjusted (at a factor 3.63x since 2001 according to Shadowstats.com). Plus you have to consider the opportunity cost of retaining it for exclusivity for "first mover" advantage. It will be interesting to see if Monero's donation funding model can support hiring the developers at the true rate they earn. There is a large difference in compensation between the top paid developers and the junior developers. As for my health and whether I can still lead Ion, this is in an unanswered question. Although the past 3 years and recent chaotic health since August would tend to concur with macsga's conclusion, a new wrinkle entered the picture last night which also might be quite shocking to macsga. So I just don't know for sure yet. In any case, at the right price, it may make sense to go ahead and give my solution to Monero well before I could ever implement it myself in my own project.He also goes into a little bit more detail about what he has: Again if the community wants to see my Zero Knowledge Transactions paper published earlier so that it could be implemented by Monero (and presumably others unless Monero folk want to see it only privately and fund it that way but wouldn't it be better for the community-at-large to see it and get competition rolling on implementing it), then I guess we'd need to make Kickstarter page to meet my minimum funding objective and to state the parameters, i.e. what happens if a flaw is found in my design and w.r.t. if it such a flaw is fixable or not.
Besides integrating rings and homomorphic sums, I also claim to have fixed Compact Confidential Transactions so that it no longer needs a huge (non-existent) elliptic curve in order to prove the hidden committed value is not negative. That requirement for a huge curve (computational speed I think degrades exponentially) was the major problem with using that Compact and superior method.
A benefit for me is that if my research paper is correct after peer review, then more people will trust that I am legit. So there is some motivation for me, but I will not give up exclusivity of "first mover" advantage unless I can be fairly compensated for what I think that exclusivity is worth (factoring in my likelihood of completing my project given my health issue and also factoring in that given enough time eventually someone else may discover the epiphany that lead to my invention).
Note the anonymity feature was not the only planned innovation for Ion (i.e. ion), thus giving up first mover advantage on it would not be the end of Ion.
As as community, ultimately all of us are going to be wealthier if we advance the best technology. Competing altcoins help advance efforts. Because technology is not enough. You need also the synergies of development team, community, and market (and features thereof).
So I say if there is a way to compensate developers and get technology out there, then that is positive for all of us.
EDIT: Here's the link to the "improved but flawed" Compact CT whitepaper, that he claims to fix: http://voxelsoft.com/dev/cct.pdf |
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I think he is full of shit.
It's certainly possible. However, I think his words are at least partially affecting the trading price (and it's not the first time as papa_lazzarou pointed out). The idea that something better (imaginary or not) lingers on the horizon always seems to be Monero's greatest enemy. |
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I've already reached out to him on other threads and via PM. So far he hasn't been even remotely clear on what he has or how much he's willing to sell it for, so there's no way for us to know if it's something worth crowdfunding.
He claims no one in the XMR community is interested in what he has, but he needs to meet us somewhere in the middle. I personally think he has no interest in ever selling his information, which is why he's so reluctant to name a price.
Nicely put. In any case, I believe this time it's his turn. Either he wants to reveal what he has (ie: describe in detail what he has managed to solve / created) or we assume he has nothing at all. Simple as that. In any case if he has something usable and worthy from the XMR devteam, I repeat what I wrote in his "ion" thread; I'm willing to donate some of my XMR stash in order to buy his work if he's for real. Let's see what he decides. Since I'm new to all of this, what has this guy said to have created that's better than the current ring sig/CT thing we are working on already? Does he claim to have some better way to implement this stuff or something of the sort? He's stated (without going into much detail) to have solutions to mining centralization, instant transactions, scalability, anonymity, etc. To quote: The current focus of my development on this coin is to complete a novel consensus network design which has proposed the following fixes to flaws in Satoshi’s design while retaining proof-of-work as unbounded entropy[1]: - Censorship resistance even if mining is entirely centralized.
- Attack-free instant zero confirmation instantaneous transactions.
- Impervious to selfish mining and 51% attacks.
- Transaction rates virtually unbounded by block chain bandwidth and size.
- Resilient against network fragmentation.
- Decentralization of pools and ASICs by making them uneconomic.
- Non-heuristic Sybil and DoS resistance.
None of the above is a joke nor exaggeration. I am entirely serious. My programming background and expertise is documented in the archives of my prior usernames. Currently unreleased white papers will not be published until this coin is nearer to release to insure these designs are released first in our coin. Thus for the time being I will not be providing more details on how the above features are accomplished. He has some health issues that are limiting his productivity on his project (but he made it clear to me he's still working), which brought up the possibility that he'd be willing to sell some or all of his design. I just realized we're in the speculation thread, so we should probably move this discussion to the main XMR thread. |
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I had to come back to post something very important. Seems Monero is attempting to duplicate my invention. I will be posting this on the Ion thread as well. The brand new Ring Confidential Transactions for Monero appears to me to be broken: https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/3oi16k/ring_ct_for_monero_a_work_in_progress_comments/cvzval5P.S. my health is not going well. I am pretty much giving on trying any therapies (because nothing works and I've tried "everything") until and if ever I can afford the best research specialists doing diagnostics on me. So don't expect too much from me. But I am still trying. I did run 9 kilometers in the past 2 days but today was a total Chronic Fatigue day bed ridden. Oh I am still retired from this forum. The above required my posting. Is it time to draft anonymint into the xmr dev team as a consultant? Can someone explain what this is about? First off this is the wrong thread for this, second let him do his own thing. He doesn't work well with others. He has given some good advice though, perhaps there is a workaround :-) Your assuming he is correct. I've already reached out to him on other threads and via PM. So far he hasn't been even remotely clear on what he has or how much he's willing to sell it for, so there's no way for us to know if it's something worth crowdfunding. He claims no one in the XMR community is interested in what he has, but he needs to meet us somewhere in the middle. I personally think he has no interest in ever selling his information, which is why he's so reluctant to name a price. |
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uhoh time to buy some moneros
I said I believe their attempt is broken and I don't think they know how to solve it the way I did. Amazing how people misinterpret what I write. You think just because they made a (what I allege is a broken) attempt that means they can invent what I did. Rather I see that they apparently didn't even realize their mistake, so they aren't even close to figuring out how to invent what I did. I might be wrong, so I await more replies from them over at Reddit. If what you're saying is true, what do you stand to gain from Monero wasting time and effort, especially considering your statements about your health limiting your productivity? If your health won't allow you to write your own code, why not privately disclose your anonymity scheme to the Monero devs (or another project if you don't like Monero) for a smaller amount paid in XMR, and profit from its success? Your current approach of being unable to program and unwilling to share your insights benefits nobody, including yourself. EDIT: No need to respond. You answered in another thread. |
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they all know who I am. they know how to send me a private message if they are interested. Instead I am certain they will go try to invent it themselves. Monero apparently doesn't have significant funds to pay developers because they didn't sell any coins. Everything was mined. Any way, I was always willing to work for those who would pay me well. I've never received an offer to be well paid for my efforts in cryptoland.
We (the Monero community) certainly know who you are, but we don't know what you want. You say "enough money" but that doesn't give anyone even a ballpark expectation. We've already crowdfunded development work and other initiatives and could certainly attempt to raise money, but your vagueness implies your work can't ever be afforded. If you don't think that's the case, then name your price and we'll see who contributes. I get that you don't want to show your hand, but if you're waiting for Smooth or Fluffypony to PM you and make you an offer, I wouldn't expect that to happen, because that's not really how decisions get made on this project. That doesn't mean you can't get what you want, however. |
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I'm seeing stuff about Aeon show up. Can anyone TL;DR it for me? Or can you confirm that Aeon is to XMR what Litecoin is to BTC?
You can think of Aeon as XMR's baby brother. It serves more as an experimental test bed with features that may eventually be incorporated into XMR, such as blockchain pruning and a more mobile-friendly proof of work. |
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... raw, grass-fed goat's (A1 casein) milk, when you have apparently been too lazy to search for counter arguments to the acid hypothesis you promulgated.
I'm not trying to split hairs, but you've made the same error a few times now. A1 beta-casein is the bad stuff. The healthy protein from goat's milk is A2. ----------------------------------------------- altcoinUK, please be careful what conclusions you draw from the work of T. Colin Campbell in The China Study. It's been so heavily debunked that it's considered by many respected experts to be junk science. Wanna see the real science? This is what happens when you compare Campbell's claims against his own data: http://rawfoodsos.com/2010/07/07/the-china-study-fact-or-fallac/Sorry, but that's some pretty damning material. And just for fun, here's a debate between T. Colin Campbell and Loren Cordain on human protein requirements. Notice that Cordain's arguments contain over 150 citations to research studies, while Campbell's argument contains no citations at all: http://www.catalystathletics.com/articles/downloads/proteinDebate.pdfTL;DR T. Colin Campbell's The China Study is evidence of nothing but fraud. |
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Fully agree. Please dont jump and get hyped about any coin, because of some strangers in the internet. Take time and do plant of research and, before you start trowing many on any coin.
I guess the main question I would have now is, where would I go to do a non biased research on the coin I want to look further into? It seems impossible to do this, especially with all of the information about cryptos being on the internet. What made you feel strongly about Monero in the first place? What makes you feel even more strongly about Monero now? I want to see for my self, but I would have no idea where to start. Regarding Monero research: go read the early pages of the Bytecoin (BCN) thread. That will give you the unbiased truth of why Monero came to exist. In early 2014, anonymity (privacy) was the big issue, and there wasn't a whole lot of talk about fungibility. It was well known you could improve bitcoin's privacy with coinjoin or mixing, but I don't think the implications of Monero's opaque blockchain became realized until long after its release. The idea that addresses on a transparent ledger always have a history (regardless of mixing), but on an opaque ledger they don't, is still not quite grasped by many in the crypto space. TL;DR Monero is still relatively young but its purpose has already shifted. Please go on... Monero started out as a "niche" currency that was lumped together with darkcoin and the others of the time with privacy as it's claim to fame. I don't think many (any?) of us saw where it was going in terms of being the only crypto capable of actually functioning as a currency, due to its true fungibility. Especially now that bitcoin's weaknesses are really starting to show, Monero is becoming less of a "niche currency" and more of "the only currency that actually works." We've transcended why privacy is important. It's just a necessary side effect of a robust and decentralized system of money. |
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Fully agree. Please dont jump and get hyped about any coin, because of some strangers in the internet. Take time and do plant of research and, before you start trowing many on any coin.
I guess the main question I would have now is, where would I go to do a non biased research on the coin I want to look further into? It seems impossible to do this, especially with all of the information about cryptos being on the internet. What made you feel strongly about Monero in the first place? What makes you feel even more strongly about Monero now? I want to see for my self, but I would have no idea where to start. Regarding Monero research: go read the early pages of the Bytecoin (BCN) thread. That will give you the unbiased truth of why Monero came to exist. In early 2014, anonymity (privacy) was the big issue, and there wasn't a whole lot of talk about fungibility. It was well known you could improve bitcoin's privacy with coinjoin or mixing, but I don't think the implications of Monero's opaque blockchain became realized until long after its release. The idea that addresses on a transparent ledger always have a history (regardless of mixing), but on an opaque ledger they don't, is still not quite grasped by many in the crypto space. TL;DR Monero is still relatively young but its purpose has already shifted. |
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A right is something that is given to you. It can be taken away from you at a whim.
This is false. What you are describing is a privilege. A right cannot be taken away... only violated. The enumeration in the U.S. Constitution does not create, grant, or define the rights of the people. It merely observes a few important ones (not to imply that all of the infinite unobserved rights are unimportant). Alexander Hamilton was very much against the inclusion of the Bill of Rights, fearing the exact perspective quoted above—the implication that any right not observed is surrendered, or that the Constitution is defining The People's only protections, when in reality the Constitution places no limitations on The People, and explicitly defines the only powers the government shall ever have, because only people (not organizations) can have rights. I go further, and affirm, that Bills of Rights, in the sense and to the extent in which they are contended for, are not only unnecessary in the proposed Constitution, but would even be dangerous. They would contain various exceptions to powers not granted; and on this very account, would afford a colorable pretext to claim more than were granted. For why declare that things shall not be done which there is no power to do?
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You guys keep talking about governments creating/enforcing black lists. Governments don't have to enforce any such blacklist for there to be one. Companies like Chainalysis will offer address screening/validation services that merchants will choose to adopt, not because they are required to, but for liability purposes. It's simply a wise legal decision that protects them from lawsuit.
That way if someone steals 10,000 bitcoins and funnels it through XYZ business, XYZ can say "don't blame us! We took these security measures and all our transactions are verified through the Chainalysis/Coinalytics/whatever gateway to be free of suspicious activity." Third party services are some of the easiest ways for businesses to limit their liability and pass responsibility to someone else, so please don't tell me that MSBs and merchants won't willingly use chain analysis services for payment verification in the future.
The bottom line is that if a currency is not fungible, you can't expect everyone to pretend that it is.
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... I feel like a majority of the public (sadly) don't and wouldn't really care if their transactions are public...
They will certainly care when merchants stop accepting their non-fungible bitcoins because some algorithm determines they're tainted. Privacy is hardly the issue. Money that isn't fungible will eventually cannibalize itself. It hasnt stopped bitcoin to be #1 cryptocurrency. And most people even dont know what fungability means. I myself, for example, have never heard about such a term before getting interested in crypto. Good luck expalining this to people who just want to use crypto, rather than go and read bitcointalk forums, or r/monero or any other such website. Again, no explaining will be necessary when your money suddenly becomes useless. I'm sure you'll know exactly what fungibility means at that point. |
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... I feel like a majority of the public (sadly) don't and wouldn't really care if their transactions are public...
They will certainly care when merchants stop accepting their non-fungible bitcoins because some algorithm decides they're tainted. Privacy is hardly the issue. Money that isn't fungible will eventually cannibalize itself. |
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I'm lovin monerodice. I tripled my stack and hit the street, never to return again (for 1 week).
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One possibility that may be holding the price back is AnonyMint's vaporcoin that will supposedly fix a lot of centralization (as well as privacy) issues in crypto. Whether it's as revolutionary as he claims (I don't think he's ever delivered code for a crypto project), I'm sure a number of people are curiously waiting on the sidelines to see what comes of it. Though I wouldn't expect much to happen very soon.
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They earned it by making customers whole after the hack. Their U.I. is well designed, albeit unusably slow on most modern platforms (tablets and phones). I just wish they would acknowledge receipt of that deposit I made a year ago...
It is a sad sad thing. I have also lost pretty much all the XMR I ever held. I don't know where any of it is any more. I hate to imagine how much money has been potentially lost to untraceability. . And to the bottom the the sea. Salt water is so bad on hard drives. As are rare earth magnets. I don't know what I was thinking, playing with them so close to my hard drives. I lost everything. |
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EDIT: Why not call the smallest Monero denomination... a Nero.
It's too simple. Let's fuck that up a bit. How about we call the smallest unit a "ro". Then 1,000,000 "ro" is a "nero". Then 1,000,000 "nero" is a "monero". And then a hundred "monero" is a "bitMonero" ... oh wait. |
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