ion discussion

[macsga]

they all know who I am. they know how to send me a private message if they are interested. Instead I am certain they will go try to invent it themselves. Monero apparently doesn't have significant funds to pay developers because they didn't sell any coins. Everything was mined. Any way, I was always willing to work for those who would pay me well. I've never received an offer to be well paid for my efforts in cryptoland.

We (the Monero community) certainly know who you are, but we don't know what you want. You say "enough money" but that doesn't give anyone even a ballpark expectation. We've already crowdfunded development work and other initiatives and could certainly attempt to raise money, but your vagueness implies your work can't ever be afforded.

If you don't think that's the case, then name your price and we'll see who contributes. I get that you don't want to show your hand, but if you're waiting for Smooth or Fluffypony to PM you and make you an offer, I wouldn't expect that to happen, because that's not really how decisions get made on this project. That doesn't mean you can't get what you want, however.

Aside from what people think about Anonymint, he's quite good at what he does. He's extremely intelligent, good coder and maybe what he claims to be true, actually really is. What I'd propose is that the XMR community to listen to what he has to offer; and if he proves that his work actually is real and could be integrated, I'd be happy myself to donate an amount of my XMRs to him in order to promote the new tech to it. The way I see it, it's a win-win situation.

@Anonymint: Under no circumstances, you could manage to fulfil what is required to deliver the coin by yourself (maybe yes, if you were healthy). You need the help of a team of talented coders in order to make it happen in a usable and quick way. The idea is brilliant; they know it; you know it. It took to you what? Six months to implement? What are the chances they cannot manage to do it by themselves? Maybe not in 6 months, but in 1y, 1.5y?

My point is that, you could claim a position in that team. Most of us there are the ones that we first involved with BTC in the early years. I'm sure the community will not leave you alone and we could certainly help crowdfunding an amount for your health issues. I know this is not what you might wanted for this stupefying project of yours, but you are facing an adiexodo here. We, as species managed to be here because we evolved. Evolution means the ability of one to adapt.

Do the right thing. Adapt.

[TPTB_need_war]

Fyi, I just responded over at Reddit and it also addresses Johnny Mnemonic's post (see also my posts in the Ion thread, just click my profile to see my latest posts):

https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/3oi16k/ring_ct_for_monero_a_work_in_progress_comments/cvzval5

I may have one more post about my health, because something rather crucial became more clear to me as I was researching to make sure the NAC I am taking is not an excitotoxin.

Regarding the posts in this thread, first I need to see if the Monero cryptographer has already solved the design.

And also my anonymity white paper "Zero Knowledge Transactions" is unpublished because it was going to be used first in Ion, and it has had no peer review so it is possible it has an error, but I combed over it numerous times and so I don't think so (but it is possible and that is what peer review is for).

As for price, I haven't thought about it yet and will do. I expended some weeks on that. I assume I am at smooth's caliber (although I think he is more active lately in coding because he is younger and not ill) in terms of my experience and past compensation, thus something on the order of $100-300 per hour. In 2001, I was earning $30,000 per month i.e. $90,000 monthly inflation-adjusted, so that is roughly $563 per hour as my opportunity cost inflation-adjusted (at a factor 3.63x since 2001 according to Shadowstats.com). Plus you have to consider the opportunity cost of retaining it for exclusivity for "first mover" advantage. It will be interesting to see if Monero's donation funding model can support hiring the developers at the true rate they earn. There is a large difference in compensation between the top paid developers and the junior developers.

As for my health and whether I can still lead Ion, this is in an unanswered question. Although the past 3 years and recent chaotic health since August would tend to concur with macsga's conclusion, a new wrinkle entered the picture last night which also might be quite shocking to macsga. So I just don't know for sure yet. In any case, at the right price, it may make sense to go ahead and give my solution to Monero well before I could ever implement it myself in my own project.

Thanks for continued voting (feedback) on the ion name.

[OROBTC]

...

Keep at it TPTB.  Focus on what's really important.

You may have to employ someone who knows what they are doing (ie someone who really knows math & programming).  I would think that this forum would have programmers you could strike up a deal with.

Think about ways to lock in you Intellectual Capital that you have worked on.  Maybe you could just SELL IT to the right parties.

Would rpietila be of help finding a proper tech buyer?

[TPTB_need_war]

Again if the community wants to see my Zero Knowledge Transactions paper published earlier so that it could be implemented by Monero (and presumably others unless Monero folk want to see it only privately and fund it that way but wouldn't it be better for the community-at-large to see it and get competition rolling on implementing it), then I guess we'd need to make Kickstarter page to meet my minimum funding objective and to state the parameters, i.e. what happens if a flaw is found in my design and w.r.t. if it such a flaw is fixable or not.

Besides integrating rings and homomorphic sums, I also claim to have fixed Compact Confidential Transactions so that it no longer needs a huge (non-existent) elliptic curve in order to prove the hidden committed value is not negative. That requirement for a huge curve (computational speed I think degrades exponentially) was the major problem with using that Compact and superior method.

A benefit for me is that if my research paper is correct after peer review, then more people will trust that I am legit. So there is some motivation for me, but I will not give up exclusivity of "first mover" advantage unless I can be fairly compensated for what I think that exclusivity is worth (factoring in my likelihood of completing my project given my health issue and also factoring in that given enough time eventually someone else may discover the epiphany that lead to my invention).

Note the anonymity feature was not the only planned innovation for Ion (i.e. ion), thus giving up first mover advantage on it would not be the end of Ion.

As as community, ultimately all of us are going to be wealthier if we advance the best technology. Competing altcoins help advance efforts. Because technology is not enough. You need also the synergies of development team, community, and market (and features thereof).

So I say if there is a way to compensate developers and get technology out there, then that is positive for all of us.

[iCEBREAKER]

Again if the community wants to see my Zero Knowledge Transactions paper published earlier so that it could be implemented by Monero (and presumably others unless Monero folk want to see it only privately and fund it that way but wouldn't it be better for the community-at-large to see it and get competition rolling on implementing it), then I guess we'd need to make Kickstarter page to meet my minimum funding objective and to state the parameters, i.e. what happens if a flaw is found in my design and w.r.t. if it such a flaw is fixable or not.

Besides integrating rings and homomorphic sums, I also claim to have fixed Compact Confidential Transactions so that it no longer needs a huge (non-existent) elliptic curve in order to prove the hidden committed value is not negative. That requirement for a huge curve (computational speed I think degrades exponentially) was the major problem with using that Compact and superior method.

A benefit for me is that if my research paper is correct after peer review, then more people will trust that I am legit. So there is some motivation for me, but I will not give up exclusivity of "first mover" advantage unless I can be fairly compensated for what I think that exclusivity is worth (factoring in my likelihood of completing my project given my health issue and also factoring in that given enough time eventually someone else may discover the epiphany that lead to my invention).

Note the anonymity feature was not the only planned innovation for Ion (i.e. ion), thus giving up first mover advantage on it would not be the end of Ion.

As as community, ultimately all of us are going to be wealthier if we advance the best technology. Competing altcoins help advance efforts. Because technology is not enough. You need also the synergies of development team, community, and market (and features thereof).

So I say if there is a way to compensate developers and get technology out there, then that is positive for all of us.

You are welcome to pitch the ideas at https://forum.getmonero.org/6/ideas.

If they are funded, you'll have a nice pile of XMR, which should appreciate in proportion to the value ZKT/CCT adds.

[TPTB_need_war]

I think finally we got to the bottom of the flaw in the Monero cryptographer's attempt at what I had invented:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/3oi16k/ring_ct_for_monero_a_work_in_progress_comments/cw1knrw

In my haste I had an error in identifying where the flaw lies, even though I knew from my prior efforts that there must be a flaw because something crucial appears to be missing in that white paper. I might still be wrong. Await the reply of the author of the white paper.

[TPTB_need_war]

Ah that Monero attempt is totally broken:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/3oi16k/ring_ct_for_monero_a_work_in_progress_comments/cw1lwm8

[CoinThug]

Good to know. I will kept in touch with this.

[asepticskeptic]

Well its either some awful name, Orion.

See what I did there?

I did just realize the excellent idea behind openalias last week some time. Neat service. Obviouslykinda unrelated. Just felt like sharing, because I'm a sharing kinda fella.

[papa_lazzarou]

Well its either some awful name, Orion.

See what I did there?

I did just realize the excellent idea behind openalias last week some time. Neat service. Obviously unrelated. Just felt like sharing, because I'm a sharing kinda fella.

It's not totally unrelated because it's a system developed by the Monero team.

[asepticskeptic]

I know papa, monero is always related and on-topoc.

Boy do I know. I've edited the remark.

[languagehasmeaning]

This tech could work well with Aeon.

If there are parts of the implementation that have serious security risks, testing it on Aeon or Boolberry first actually makes a lot of sense.  Monero has a much larger market cap so has more reason to be cautious.

[BitcoinForumator]

TPTB quote:

"As a lead developer I want to enter at $100,000 market cap. The earlier investors should enter at < $1 million market cap."

In Aeon I think the market cap is even lower. You could also get a nice chunk of the Aeon pie. And working with Smooth could be a good combo.

And "aeon" is close to "ion" 

[TPTB_need_war]

I registered some domains today for a new name:

Cybit

Cybit.space
Cybit.me
Cybit.news
Cybit.info
Cyberbit.space
Cyberbit.me
Cyberbit.news
Cyber.fyi

Alternative name is:

Cyber

Any comments are welcome. I will run a poll on it some other time, assuming it is well received.

Although Ion was short, techie, and perhaps connotative of a micropayment ion exchange, I felt it wasn't really specific enough to money, networked information, new paradigms in cyberspace, etc. Also it was a bit too close to Aeon and I didn't want to feel I was ripping off their name.

I wanted a name that could both represent a fast zapped micropayment, and also referring to digital assets and programmable block chains in general. That would also work as a unit as well as a name, e.g. "send 5 cybits". I definitely wanted a brandable name, e.g. no permutations of "___Coin". I was a bit jealous of the new Iota (which was a name we had thought of in 2014 and not used). Although nubits is a permutation of "__Bits", I believe "Cyber+bits" is a more powerful connotation. Cybits seems to roll off the tongue much better than Bitcoin. Cyber.gold was available but my gf made a comment that cyber as complete two syllables connotates for her as the negatives of "cybersex" and "cyberchat". Whereas obscuring the full "cyber" in "cybits" lost the negative association for her. Cyber.gold, just seemed to confusing. How does a gold chain get into the the cyber realm? I asked her which term she would most let to utter when asking for a friend to send some over FB so she could fun a game. Cybits was her choice over both Cyber.gold and netgold. Also Bitcoin was a bit ambiguous in that it could mean "bit of a coin", instead of "bit of information coin". The "Cyber bit" doesn't seem to have that potential misinterpretation.

cy·ber
adjective
of, relating to, or characteristic of the culture of computers, information technology, and virtual reality.
"the cyber age"
synonyms:   electronic, digital, wired, virtual, web, Internet, Net, online
"our relationship was more cyber than face-to-face"


bit
noun
a unit of information expressed as either a 0 or 1 in binary notation.

bit
noun

1
:  a unit of computer information equivalent to the result of a choice between two alternatives (as yes or no, on or off)
2
:  the physical representation of a bit by an electrical pulse, a magnetized spot, or a hole whose presence or absence indicates data


I was also inspired by the portion of the video linked from the following quoted post.

Definition of Bitcoin in the Evolution of Money

Watch the linked video. He nails this. Gold and silver are dinosaur relics now, as well paper, platforms, and institutions.

Andreas Antonopoulos makes the point that what distinguishes decentralized crypto-currency from other forms of money, including digital money, is that it is a decentralized protocol, i.e. a language and not centralized platform or institution. Since I agree 100% with this definition and especially how he explains it in the context of the history of money, it appears to coincide with my view that the securities law applies to managed platforms and institutions and not to decentralized, unmanaged protocols. Thus if some group is controlling the protocol, I think they could be argued to be the managers of the "investment securities" which are the coins.

Thus I agree with the voter who voted that all crypto-currencies which have a group managing the protocol are thus "investment securities", regardless whether they sold the coins or not.

I highly recommend listening to that presentation by Andreas.

[funnyman21]

I registered some domains today for a new name:

Cybit

Cybit.space
Cybit.me
Cybit.news
Cybit.info
Cyberbit.space
Cyberbit.me
Cyberbit.news
Cyber.fyi

Alternative name is:

Cyber

Any comments are welcome. I will run a poll on it some other time, assuming it is well received.

Although Ion was short, techie, and perhaps connotative of a micropayment ion exchange, I felt it wasn't really specific enough to money, networked information, new paradigms in cyberspace, etc. Also it was a bit too close to Aeon and I didn't want to feel I was ripping off their name.

I wanted a name that could both represent a fast zapped micropayment, and also referring to digital assets and programmable block chains in general. That would also work as a unit as well as a name, e.g. "send 5 cybits". I definitely wanted a brandable name, e.g. no permutations of "___Coin". I was a bit jealous of the new Iota (which was a name we had thought of in 2014 and not used). Although nubits is a permutation of "__Bits", I believe "Cyber+bits" is a more powerful connotation. Cybits seems to roll off the tongue much better than Bitcoin. Cyber.gold was available but my gf made a comment that cyber as complete two syllables connotates for her as the negatives of "cybersex" and "cyberchat". Whereas obscuring the full "cyber" in "cybits" lost the negative association for her. Cyber.gold, just seemed to confusing. How does a gold chain get into the the cyber realm? I asked her which term she would most let to utter when asking for a friend to send some over FB so she could fun a game. Cybits was her choice over both Cyber.gold and netgold. Also Bitcoin was a bit ambiguous in that it could mean "bit of a coin", instead of "bit of information coin". The "Cyber bit" doesn't seem to have that potential misinterpretation.

cy·ber
adjective
of, relating to, or characteristic of the culture of computers, information technology, and virtual reality.
"the cyber age"
synonyms:   electronic, digital, wired, virtual, web, Internet, Net, online
"our relationship was more cyber than face-to-face"


bit
noun
a unit of information expressed as either a 0 or 1 in binary notation.

bit
noun

1
:  a unit of computer information equivalent to the result of a choice between two alternatives (as yes or no, on or off)
2
:  the physical representation of a bit by an electrical pulse, a magnetized spot, or a hole whose presence or absence indicates data


I was also inspired by the portion of the video linked from the following quoted post.

Definition of Bitcoin in the Evolution of Money

Watch the linked video. He nails this. Gold and silver are dinosaur relics now, as well paper, platforms, and institutions.

Andreas Antonopoulos makes the point that what distinguishes decentralized crypto-currency from other forms of money, including digital money, is that it is a decentralized protocol, i.e. a language and not centralized platform or institution. Since I agree 100% with this definition and especially how he explains it in the context of the history of money, it appears to coincide with my view that the securities law applies to managed platforms and institutions and not to decentralized, unmanaged protocols. Thus if some group is controlling the protocol, I think they could be argued to be the managers of the "investment securities" which are the coins.

Thus I agree with the voter who voted that all crypto-currencies which have a group managing the protocol are thus "investment securities", regardless whether they sold the coins or not.

I highly recommend listening to that presentation by Andreas.

I like cybit and cybit.info

[bigtimespaghetti]

cybit is a strong name, I think it works.

[trollercoaster]

Cybit, I like it.

[othe]

Cybit sucks,
the reason is https://www.cybits.de/en/

They are doing KYC etc and payment verification, so it´s too similar.

[TPTB_need_war]

Cybit sucks,
the reason is https://www.cybits.de/en/

They are doing KYC etc and payment verification, so it´s too similar.

Thanks for the heads up. It depends on if they can get wide adoption and awareness, versus if the coin can. I lean towards they can't.

Then again "Cy" almost sounds like "Spy". I am conflicted by the term "cyber" because it seems to carry negative and positive connotations, e.g. "cyberterrorism", "cyberstalking", "cybersex", "cyborg", "cyberspace", "cybernetics".

I registered those just after when my eyes had fallen asleep sitting upright watching the Andreas Antonopolous presentation on YouTube. I was asleep while operating the computer, almost literally. I vaguely remember the actions including making the post above.

Pushing too hard.

[othe]

They already have, they are a german company doing KYC for banks like Fidor, ICICI etc.
and for mail providers like gmx,web.de etc... financial products like Paysafecard etc.... betting providers like Admiralbet....internet providers like 1&1...