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3221  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Remove "generate bitcoins" from standard client? on: March 25, 2011, 09:06:16 AM
So what kind of processing power do you see a professional miner having? I saw someone (I can envision his picture, but I can't find it right now to mention him by name) talking about setting up 20 or more GPU units. Is that the level you're talking about?

ArtForz is the model for Bitcoin mining companies of the future. He designed his own structured ASIC mining chips, and he somehow gets free electricity. With a few more people like ArtForz, even GPUs will become unprofitable. Then the distinction between professional and amateur miners will be more clear.

Mining companies will have state-of-the-art custom mining hardware. They will have an incredible amount of processing power. I believe they will end up having so much power that even the largest botnets will be unable to compete.
Surely there will be companies selling PCI-e dedicated hashing devices to amateurs?
3222  Bitcoin / Mining / Re: Offering 25 BTC for Linux mining guide on: March 25, 2011, 08:50:04 AM
but if you don't know much about linux, why not just use windows? TBH I find windows to be better because not only is it easier to set up, you have much more versatility and less headaches.
From reading the forums I get the impression it's the other way around. With Windows there are a lot more headaches, difficult to configure and clock, problems starting up cards without a monitor attached, restarting for updates, limits on the number of connections, etc. Linux seems much more sustainable. Also Windows costs money (yes, I'm one of those).

I know I could figure it all out myself with some research, but I know I'll mess everything up and spend hours on trial-and-error. And it's not just for me, I'm sure there are many other people for whom this guide will be very useful.

Anyone who knows a bit about linux can do this provided they have enough time and do their research. I could do it for you, but I am sure many more are more skilled than I am and would be done with it before I would be. If you PM me with a deadline and 1st dibs if I do the job correctly I wouldn't mind doing it at all though Smiley
Let's wait and see who else is up to this Smiley. I think it's better to have someone with a lot of experience with this to make the kind of coherent guide I'm looking for.
3223  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Remove "generate bitcoins" from standard client? on: March 25, 2011, 08:41:11 AM

Mining companies will have state-of-the-art custom mining hardware. They will have an incredible amount of processing power. I believe they will end up having so much power that even the largest botnets will be unable to compete.

What if they decide to stop playing nicely? For example, they could start requesting very high fees, and since they would be generating almost all the blocks, you'd pretty much have to pay unless you want to wait for weeks.
Collusion is difficult with hundreds of competitors.
3224  Bitcoin / Mining / Offering 25 BTC for Linux mining guide on: March 25, 2011, 08:08:48 AM
I am offering 25 BTC for writing a comprehensive, easy to use guide to mining on Linux, and putting the guide on the wiki. It should allow someone who knows very little about Linux to configure a Linux system (preferably Ubuntu) to serving as a successful dedicated mining rig. It should be compatible with 2 X 5970 setups.

If such a guide already exists, I am offering only 5 BTC for finding it and putting it on the wiki (I searched and didn't find anything, on the wiki or elsewhere). If existing guides fall substantially short of the standards I require here I will offer the full 25 BTC for modifying one to satisfy the requirements.

The guide should cover:
 - Installing a Bitcoin client, and configuring it to receive RPC connections from the local machine and other Linux/Windows computers on the LAN.
 - Installing ATI drivers.
 - Installing the most suitable version of ATI stream SDK (including a recommendation for which version that is, and explanation why).
 - Installing a miner.
 - Disabling Crossfire on the 5970 (if indeed that's a step that should be taken).
 - Over/under-clocking the cards.
 - Running the miner on all GPUs, complete with which flags should be used.
 - Setting the Bitcoin client and the miner to automatically run on startup.
 - Troubleshooting the most common pitfalls (if there's no reason it shouldn't work out of the box, no need to make up problems to satisfy this).
 - Any other crucial steps that I don't know are necessary.
 - A link to a guide about using VNC or else to connect remotely from a Windows computer. (This looks pretty good, other suggestions are welcome.)
3225  Bitcoin / Mining / Overclocking warranty on: March 25, 2011, 08:07:37 AM
When I send a graphics card to a shop for replacement under warranty (I gather that it's common in some places to RMA it directly with the manufacturer, but not here), can they tell if I overclocked it? Will they cause problems if they determine that I did? What about underclocking?
3226  Bitcoin / Mining / Re: What kind of pool would be best for a 220 Mhash card? on: March 25, 2011, 07:34:05 AM
Can you explain what exactly the difference between scored and shared is?
In shared-based, all shares have the same weight (that is, portion of the block reward).
In score-based, recently submitted shares have more weight.
3227  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Is calling it a "wallet" the wrong thing? on: March 24, 2011, 08:39:19 PM
I think the worst analogy of the Bitcoin system is the "bitcoin" part. It leads to all sorts of misunderstandings, concerns about divisibility being the most common one. It took me some time to understand that there is nothing analogous to coins in the system and bitcoins are actually historical transactions. However, the user never has to know how it works, so it's OK.

Compared to that, "wallet" is actually a pretty good one, an I think it's the reason why the coin analogy was appropriate in the first place. You have your cash stored in your wallet, when you spend it it's gone, when you lose your wallet it's gone. It's harder even to grasp, for the non-technical user, that there aren't actual bitcoins stored there. If you get rid of the wallet analogy, you would have to change nomenclature altogether, starting with "bitcoin".
Let's call it "Bitliquid". Since liquid is uncountable, we'll measure it in liters, and talk about sending 21.5 liters of bitliquid. Divisibility problem solved. Tongue
3228  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Is calling it a "wallet" the wrong thing? on: March 24, 2011, 07:45:19 PM
Keychain?
3229  Economy / Economics / Re: Labor costs and prices in an economy using bitcoin exclusively on: March 24, 2011, 07:40:06 PM
Try to explain things clearly. "Lording a potato" is not a clear or self-explanatory concept.
It's like lording land. But with a potato. Cheesy
3230  Bitcoin / Mining / Re: What kind of pool would be best for a 220 Mhash card? on: March 24, 2011, 07:23:43 PM
Hmm.. Can't say I intuitively grasp the cheating approach. Once you leave a share based pool, your part of the payout shrinks as well -- but I recon slower than your profit from the pool you switched to?
Could you try quantify the loss from people using this technique? Is it likely to be larger than the 2% fee difference between slush's pool and bitcoinpool, which is free, for instance?
When you submit a share to a share-based pool, your expected payout from it depends on the number of shares already in the round and is much higher in the beginning of the round. Cheaters who are after a profit but have no interest in otherwise causing harm, will mine until the number of shares is 0.435*difficulty, and from that point mine solo or switch to another pool.
If it helps your intuition, think of this - if there are already 2*difficulty shares, then no matter what happens, any share you submit will give you less than 1/(2*difficulty) of the block. While if you mine solo, you have 1/difficulty chance to get a whole block.
In the limit where there is a nest of cheaters that supply 100% of the mining until the point of improfitability, the honest participants are left to split the rewards of rounds longer than that, which on average is 70% of solo mining payout. This is much worse than any fee, even the seemingly high ones for PPS.
This problem can be mitigated by making it hard to find out how many shares are in the current round. I don't know how effective this is.
3231  Economy / Marketplace / Re: german privacy foundation: can someone verify their currently not accepting btc on: March 24, 2011, 07:12:51 PM
I overlooked they're accepting cash in the mail, too, yes. Is that a no-go for the bounty?

This doesn't make any difference.
Right, sorry if I made it seem like it does. I just wanted to note that your (molecular) list of currently accepted methods was incomplete.
3232  Bitcoin / Mining / Re: What kind of pool would be best for a 220 Mhash card? on: March 24, 2011, 04:34:45 PM
Pay per share is good if you want to be able to very easily verify that you're getting exactly what you're supposed to and not being cheated by the operator or other participants, so it's a good way to start out. But in a few days you'll outgrow it and want to maximize your earnings. At that point I recommend score-based over share-based. Score-based has some more variance, but higher expectation if cheaters are present (or the same expectation if there are no cheaters).

slush is the only one I know to use score-based. Hopefully at some point someone will implement my method, which is not only cheat-proof but also has controllable variance.
3233  Bitcoin / Pools / Re: Cooperative mining (150Ghash/s) on: March 24, 2011, 04:09:54 PM
And getting one big payout was kind of fun.  Smiley I may have to raise my threshold to 50 so I can simulate the experience of finding a block myself.
It's just not the same when you're consistently progressing towards a goal with a known finish time. Sleepless nights of wondering "did I find a block just now?" for the win!  Wink
3234  Economy / Marketplace / Re: german privacy foundation: can someone verify their currently not accepting btc on: March 24, 2011, 02:55:18 PM
As said before, it looks like I have actually convinced the german privacy foundation to accept donations using bitcoins.

Can someone verify they are currently not doing so?
I confirm that (but apparently they also accept cash). Also, for convenience of fellow non-German speakers who would also like to take a look, here's the Google Translate link.
3235  Economy / Marketplace / Re: Earn 34BTC or 20-21BTC for getting shops/organisations to accept Bitcoin on: March 24, 2011, 02:37:22 PM
I like this idea! Could someone post a sample letter or a list of talking points for pitching the idea of Bitcoins?
See my earlier comment for how I think this should be done. Just for fun, here is what I think would be a very bad way to approach most shops, where actionable information is eschewed in favor of zealous ramblings of details which are irrelevant at best, suspicious at worst. (With some modifications, it could be a good pitch for organizations that already strongly believe in Bitcoin's values).

Quote
I have a great suggestion for you - you should start accepting Bitcoin payments! Bitcoin is a revolutionary new currency that will change commerce as we know it. By joining the Bitcoin community, you too can be a part of this revolution!

Bitcoin is a decentralized system, which means there is no single point of failure. There are no banks that can go bankrupt and lose their customers' savings, or governments to control it and print out new money on a whim. Anyone can take a look at the source code to see exactly how it works. Also, bitcoins are generated by dedicating CPU power to solve a cryptographic hashing problem. Anyone can create bitcoins on their computer at home!

So, it will be really great if you accept bitcoins. Thank you so much!!!
3236  Economy / Marketplace / Re: german privacy foundation on: March 24, 2011, 02:13:08 PM
I'm going to contact the German Privacy Foundation (http://privacyfoundation.de)

They're selling a product, the cryptostick (smartcard on a usb stick), maybe I can get them to accept bitcoins in their shop or as donations.

Don't start buying cryptosticks yet Wink wait for them to accept bitcoins. If you'd like to get a cryptostick, ask if they accept bitcoins :p

Don't know if they match the criteria, but will do anyways.


Ha! They answered and said they were now testing bitcoin donations.

They're even inclined to use it in their shop but have, of course, the exchange rate problem.

Does anyone have some sample code I could point them to that grabs the exchange rate from mtgox / google (they think in EUR) so they could implement a live BTC price in their shop?

Is there a good place to start for someone wanting to accept bitcoin in his shop and doesn't know where to start? A HowTo or something?
I think MyBitcoin have currency conversion built in to their merchant services.
A few getting started guides for merchants have been written, for example this. There is some work to be done on making something more comprehensive. There's also this which has a different focus.
3237  Bitcoin / Project Development / Re: Pledge for DOSBox donations (87 BTC so far) on: March 24, 2011, 02:03:15 PM
Btw, I think our next target could be http://www.scummvm.org/ Smiley
Good idea. Though I think I'll sit that one out, seeing as I only learnt about ScummVm and SCUMM yesterday after looking at the DOSBox news. This is despite the fact I have a special place in my heart for a few of what I now know to be SCUMM games, like Loom, MM2:DotT and Hero's Quest.
3238  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Remove "generate bitcoins" from standard client? on: March 24, 2011, 06:56:48 AM
I think and voted that there should be a clear warning that you will not generate a block for years.
I still think that not even mentioning block generation is much better, if the option will stay. It should be like running Seti@Home, purely to support the network.

Though as stonetz said, it will become pointless at some point, if it isn't already, so maybe we can advertise some easy to use GUI GPU miner in the download pages or the client itself, so that the clueless user can run the miner without any hassle together with the client (then server mode would need to be on by default or be able to be configured through GUI).

It's already pretty much pointless. There's no sense in deluding newcomers into thinking that by taking the effort to waste power on this they are supporting the network in a non-negligible way. Humans' incentive structure is weird, if you tell them something will "contribute" they won't bother to ask "how much does it contribute?".
On the other hand, when a person contributes something insignificant (or believes he does) it causes him to be more responsive to making substantial contributions later on. This is an argument in favor of including the "feel good" button, but not strong enough in my opinion.
3239  Bitcoin / Project Development / Re: Pledge for DOSBox donations (87 BTC so far) on: March 24, 2011, 04:33:41 AM
Sounds very good to me. I would just change "sell them for USD" to "sell them for USD (or other currency)" or something along these lines. We shouldn't assume they are all Americans. Smiley
We shouldn't assume, and it looks like Qbix might be dutch, but they currently solicit only USD donations. It's not guaranteed they can convert BTC directly to their local currency (I know I can't). They will probably be satisfied to know they can receive the more familiar USD. Also, should they ask, I'll recommend them to use CoinCard which only gives USD. Being able to convert directly to their required currency to save some exchange fees will be useful to them later on, but at this point it looks to me like unneeded clutter.
3240  Economy / Marketplace / Re: Earn 34BTC or 20-21BTC for getting shops/organisations to accept Bitcoin on: March 23, 2011, 07:56:04 PM
I like this idea! Could someone post a sample letter or a list of talking points for pitching the idea of Bitcoins?
You can have a look at what I am going to send to DOSBox here.
A few points which are important in my view are:
1. Don't be a spammer. If it's a shop, only contact them if you've made purchases before. If an organization, show that you are actually involved in and care about their cause.
2. Unless they are very much inclined towards the philosophy of Bitcoin, they won't care how great it is to have an Open Source peer-to-peer deflationary cryptographic currency which is not controlled by any possibly malicious single point of failure and that they will be helping promote a better future. These can be mentioned to provide some perspective of what Bitcoin is, but downplayed. They care about what's in it for them, how it will help them in their own lives. They want to know that Bitcoin will give them extra business/donations they can convert to fiat currency which is of known use to them. That's not them being selfish, just practical. If they later choose to be more involved that's an added bonus.
3. They will want to know that with Bitcoin, people can send money easily and with no/low transaction fees.
4. Shops may be interested to know there are no chargebacks with Bitcoin.
5. Make it personal. Let them know how you personally would love to pay them with bitcoins.
6. They will be concerned about the work required to receive Bitcoin payments. Let them know that it's easy and offer to help (it helps if yourself you know a thing or two about Bitcoin and its related services).
7. Be polite, of course.
8. Don't overdo it. They will be put off by too much enthusiasm.

Update: 2 organizations I've contacted were concerned about what they could do with bitcoins, so I recommend mentioning CoinCard in the first message (for shops, too). 2 shops were concerned about the work required to integrate Bitcoin to their shopping carts, so you may want to familiarize yourself with existing solutions to make it easier for them.
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