If people telling the truth is misleading to you then you need to go back on your meds.

And you can tell what the luck is, albeit after the fact, it is a gamble on weather it trends up or down and I understand that you can't tell what the luck (I really don't like that term) is going to be from one round to the next.  But today it was pretty good on Deepbit and Ozco.

I'm going back into my timeout corner now.
Sam

I don't know why "only lately" you have been able to figure you that DB charges a 10% PPS fee.  Tycho has posted several times to DB customers that the fee is 10%.  So the information in % was and is freely available to DB miners.  And the actual price has *always* been available on the main page.

I haven't mined PPS on DB in months.  But I do still mine proportional there when the luck is good.  Like today.
Sam

If your quote was a stand alone statement your interpretation would be true.  But you have ripped it out of context.  Here is the complete quote

"We pay a competitive price:

    * Pay per share: 0.00003441081600403 BTC per every submitted share"

Since you/we/others may rightfully quibble about what constitutes a "competitive price" (subjective), having the actual price listed there does constitute full disclosure (objective).

Sam

You call a pool posting exactly what they pay per share a lie?  I call it full disclosure.

If you think people are too lazy or too stupid to compare prices that is hardly something to get upset with DB about.  Actually I think that says more about what you think about your fellow Bitcoin enthusiasts.

I don't disagree with idea that the large pools are centralizing too much power in what is supposed to be a DEcentralized currency.  But that is hardly something to get pissed at any pool about.  What do you expect a pool to do?  Tell paying customers to go away?  That's ridiculous.
Sam

Why are you pissed?  Because the PPS fee is 10%?

Everyone knows DB has the highest PPS Fee.  It may not say 10% , but, it does give the actual price per share which every PPS pool, that I've seen, post's as well.  So it is easy to compare one PPS pool against another, even for ignorant noobs.

Sam

Sure for storing wealth it may well be prudent to use other things of value for savings.  But most of us need to keep a certain amount of our local currency liquid for immediate needs.  I use a bank/credit union for that purpose.

Maybe one day BTC will be used for immediate needs as well which is why I'm acquiring them.  With the current economy of the world it makes sense invest in an anti-inflationary currency.  But right now BTC cannot take the place of local currencies nor banks.
Sam

So you found a liquor store that accepts BTC?

Maybe I should have said legacy currency?
Sam

So you don't keep some of your regular currency in a bank?
Sam

Is there a thread where this is discussed?  Yesterday was the first I had heard of it.
Thanks,
Sam

So, what is the purpose of selling hash power to someone else?

I had never heard or conceived of such a thing until I looked at Goat's pool thread yesterday where he states he can pay more per share than the what is earned from solving blocks by reselling the hash's.

Why is that?  And how can that work?  And what are these third parties doing with these hash's/hash power that they are paying more than they are worth?

Very disturbing,
Sam

The point is they are taking money, they have to, even if it is truly just a hobby and they're running the pool on some old idle PC they  have laying around, which I doubt, it still cost's.

Just because DB or any other fee pool tries to calculate the cost of doing business and a profit margin and charges a hard fee for it doesn't make them "evil" or bad or wrong.  I wouldn't dream of asking Tycho to reduce his fee, which is 3% by the way, 10% is their PPS fee and I doubt very much that there are very many Mh/s being used on DB PPS side.

The something I do is mine.  I can solo mine or I can use a pool.  The pools are a service and they cost money to run.  Try posting to ask for help with solo mining and see how many people tell you how stupid your are.  Now we use a pool and we are being told again how stupid we are.

Just can't make some people happy.
And I am continuing to use DB and other pools.
Sam

1. Mining and running a pool are two different things.
2. A donation is still a fee.
3. Just because a person has a day job would justify running a pool at a loss?
4. If Davinci and BTCserv really "dont take your money in the first place", how do they stay in business.  I haven't checked these pools but I would assume they have a default donation level set that most people don't change.  But I don't know for sure.  But if so that is still a fee and they are taking your money in the first place.  And there would be nothing wrong with that.
Sam

Edit: Davinci AKA NMCBit currently pays PPS .0000373109824026.  If there he were not charging a fee he would be paying .0000382342505475.
Sam

Referring to "other pools that don't take your money".

1. Why are they running pools in the first place?
2. Since they have no income how do they continue to operate?
3. Do you think it's a good idea to trust someone who purposely operates a service at a loss?
4. And please give me a list of "pools dont take your money in the first place".  I don't know of a single one in existence.
Sam

The subject line read "Why do you mine on deepbit?"

Not  "what are the stupid non-reasons why you mine on deepbit?"
Sam

doesn't condone = does NOT condone.

So you only mine on PPS Pools?  I mine on PPS pools but not because they are hopping proof.  Wasn't DB the first PPS pool?
Sam

I have several original IBM XT's, one with an 8086 even.

Sorry that was blatancy off topic.  I promise to try not to do it again.
Sam

MM and NMC is no way worth the hype nor grief that it has caused.  But it is here now, by popular demand on most pools.  That doesn't mean it's a good idea.  But again that is the choice of most folks so I guess that's fine.

I have no problem with pool hoppers.  Again it is a choice people are free to make to do or not to do as it is for pools to decide if they want to tolerate them or not and a choice you are free to make by using a pool that has anti hopping measures/payout method in place.

But back to the subject of this thread, Deepbit doesn't condone Pool Hopping.
Sam

And how much EXTRA profit have you really made from MM?  I'm not saying it isn't there I'm just saying it's negligible.  Maybe that will change in the future though.  I'm not getting rid of the few NMC's I have, but I'm not exactly excited about having them either.
Sam

At 245 NMC per BTC I'm sure everyone is really raking in massive profits from MM.

Right.
Sam

I respectfully disagree.  If someone else did come up with a good and reliable pool/service with the quality of service DB provides they could do as well.  But I seriously doubt that a no fee pool could it.  And the other factor, the way everyone is talking, is that this P2Pool thing may make pools obsolete.  If that is true then it is all a moot point anyway.

I'm sure the investment, maintenance and defending against attacks cost allot of time and money.  I have no idea what kind of profit the fee based pools make but I'm sure it's nowhere near what many people may think.  And if it is, well good for them for getting a return on their investment.

Hmm, people used to say the same thing about IBM and their Mainframes.  Someone will, eventually, unseat M$.  It will take someone with vision like Gates and Jobs and can effectively implement it.  It won't happen by someone with the attitude that the "biggest player and can't be surpassed".
Sam