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3301  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Peter Todd calls dash snake oil. on: July 20, 2015, 12:51:52 AM
I want to pay a hooker without my wife knowing.

Do I read a mantra on what money should be written by a pseudoeconomist and buy a coin with same the anonymity level as bitcoin?

Or do I use the coin that's agreed upon to have the best anonymity?

How will I ever decide?  Roll Eyes
3302  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Speculation (Altcoins) / Re: [XMR] Monero Speculation on: July 20, 2015, 12:29:06 AM
It is OK if all that I say is interpreted crookedly. It just neutralizes the market reaction that might happen as a result of the believers buying, and anyway you should buy the rumor and sell the news don't they say so?

You are one of the few people that have figured out that if you are honest and up front most people will go game theory with it and end up screwing themselves out of an opportunity.
3303  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Speculation (Altcoins) / Re: 60k Moneroj. Will i be a millionaire by 2017? on: July 19, 2015, 11:38:05 PM

Ah fuck, a Dash owner. Should have known.

It's weird. I remember when Darkcoin was labelling Litecoin 'the most toxic community in the cryptospace'. And I remember thinking, why? What has Litecoin ever done to deserve that title? Charlie Lee is a good guy, LTC was fairly launched with no instamine, it changed the algorythm for the better, had a grassroots orientated ethic where everyone had to contribute to make it work, set against the backdrop of a genuinely hostile BTC crowd - what did Litecoin ever do to deserve that mantra from Darkcoin?


This is just not true, I am here from the beginning of Darkoin and Monero (citation needed)

Dash is quite possibly one of the worst projects I've ever encountered, and I'm not joking when I say that I've yet to meet a Dash owner who is not a brain-dead twat.

That's exactly my point. You and your Monero people (icebreaker, adams, generalize, etc.) Are always insulting other people, I am being insulted all day by people of your toxic community in the Dash thread. Maybe that's the reason you have an empty forum, with no real community behind.

Can I ask you a question? How old are you, kid?


I'm mean to dashers because I keep winning the same arguments with them and a week later I have to repeat the process all over again--it's like groundhog day without the hot girl.
3304  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Peter Todd calls dash snake oil. on: July 19, 2015, 11:16:15 PM

I can't follow where the coins came from without cryptography.  this is futile.

Then stop wasting our time and learn cryptography.

Explain to me how I can trust a cryptographic algorithm that says a coin is indeed valid and was created properly and that nothing malicious has happened, though none of that information is visible or verifiable on the blockchain.  Explain to me how I can know this.  Not in theory, but in unbreakable proofs.  Perhaps the cryptography has indeed kept the coins true, but how do I know bad information, extra coins, a super block payout can not happen?  How do I know this, I can't verify the validity of any of these coins except to accept what the cryptography says is spendable at that moment in time.

And by the way, your response is extremely rude.  If you can't converse but only attack, you should shut it.  Knowing how to do a cryptographical proof has nothing to do with knowing how to properly and usefully apply that proof in a system. (I can do the first, but am open to the fact I'm wrong about the second)  I see a hole I can't trust. I'm asking for an explanation, but none of you have given it to me, other than "hey, it's cryptography man, you can trust it baby!"  Sorry, that's not good enough for me.

First, you can get on github and verify the math--which experienced cryptographers have done. Having to verify each transaction when you can simply verify the math that regulates each transaction seems a bad (inefficient) way to go about things. If you don't understand cryptography, you should admit it and move on or learn it and add to the conversation--its like you are telling a physicist that a neutrino doesn't exist because you can't see it or understand the math. And asking them to teach you the math is a task that is probably not possible for most humans and wouldn't be fair to ask, even if you could learn it, because you are on a forum and you aren't paying them to tutor you. Christof Paar has a great intro course online if you are interested.

I also think it's rude that you mislabel people's honest labor in an effort to spin the argument away from Todd's comments, so don't throw rocks. Unless you can disprove the math behind ring signitures, you're barking up the wrong tree. This is old and proven cryptography that has yet to be broken. But besides the math there is an analysis that doesn't require any math whatsoever; if monero's coin distribution suffered from any anomalies, you would be sure to hear about it from exchanges, wallet holders, and developers in the space. This hasn't happened since its birth, so i guess math, even really cool and complex math, works as expected.
3305  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Peter Todd calls dash snake oil. on: July 19, 2015, 10:05:28 PM

I can't follow where the coins came from without cryptography.  this is futile.

Then stop wasting our time and learn cryptography.
3306  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Peter Todd calls dash snake oil. on: July 19, 2015, 10:02:59 PM
Quote

In cryptonote, I still can't verify it with logic, therefore I will not trust it.


Holy shit. A philosophical difference? When did we stop talking about cryptography and mathematics and start talking about your "feelings". I am simply blown away at how silly you people are. On one hand you are saying that you cant trust a coin with an opaque blockcoin on the other hand darksend makes coins opaque. Please explain this to us me. I just dont get it.

You don't trust cryptonote because... you cant verify it with logic!!?!?!? Its an open source computer program based on a public blocchain where EVERY full node verifies the data independently , its 100% mathematical logic. I'm sorry to say but this is the stupidest statement I have heard in a long time.



Trustless verses trust is at the root of Bitcoin.  Centralized Banks and their ilk, vs a decentralized trustless networks.  Monero works ulitmately like a trusted central authority, it is opposite, no matter how much fancy mathematics is included, to what Bitcoin achieved.  So any argument as to which is best is indeed philosophical.

Monero works like a trustless (human trutless/mathematical proven) decentralized cryptographical system. Saying it any other way is lying.
3307  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Peter Todd calls dash snake oil. on: July 19, 2015, 09:40:29 PM


I don't trust this system.  I can't see it and verify it.  What good is it for everything to be hidden completely, to the point where you have to trust that it is working?

With a simple, understandable system that fully protects the privacy of the user,  yet requires no trust - as was always the whole point of the decentralized crypto currency of Bitcoin - DASH is not more superior due to it's complexity, but due to it's simplicity.  If you're such a technocrat that you don't understand this, I can only feel bad for you because the majority of the world will.

LOL. Here's the attack vector Evan created out of ignorance, stupidity or pure not giving a fuck.

The easiest attack is to buy masternodes and ddos attack competing nodes until you own the traffic. Evan claims it's financially implausible, but ignores that nodes are most profitable when there about a 1,000 masternodes (he has a ROI graphic on the dash BCT thread that underscores this). He also ignores that the attacker would be pulling incomes from these masternodes--given that most are held on corporate servers underlies that no one knows who owns them outside of the host and the owner. He also ignores how motivated an attacker may be, that he or another masternode operator might comply given the right circumstances (threat or lawful compliance) and how deep LE's pockets are--silly, dangerous, stupid.

If you trust that system knowing the flaws, you deserve whatever comes your way--except maybe being linked to pedophiles--can you show that link on your explorer?

DOS'ing masternodes doesn't reduce the anonymity set of the transactions or coins mixed before the DOS. If the masternode count drops 50% for example all of a sudden, mixing coins at that moment is not a good idea. It was already suggested a year ago or so that the wallet would take care of this and protect the user during the network downtime. It hasn't been implemented yet afaik, DASH must grow at least 100x at minimum before this (an appearance of such a motivated attacker) would become even a possibility.


DDOS is to control the majority of nodes, not to directly reduce the anonymity set--though by doing so while monitoring the nodes you posses would break anonymity--which was my point. Nice suggestion, but wouldn't an attacker take control of the nodes before any measures were taken, while it was cheapest, and while they could gain the most info for the longest time without raising any red flags? Also, you still have no measure in reality or in the works to stop an organization from using coercion or compliance to motivate a node operator to turn over data--this is even better since the whatevermine granted the first users such a large stash of coins and the masternodes are most likely concentrated in a few hands. But here's the big problem: masternodes are human controlled intermediaries that perform important functions. Whatever breaks dash's anonymity will happen because you trust this moronic system that is begging to be broken. You are playing a game of whack-a-mole and apparently no one in dashland has the theoretical capability to see it or the moral compass to speak up. Snake oil.
3308  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Speculation (Altcoins) / Re: 60k Moneroj. Will i be a millionaire by 2017? on: July 19, 2015, 09:27:41 PM
Cross-posting FYI (Monero and his forum, some facts about the work they are doing):


No. The reality is that you have no community, no development, no markerting. It's not me saying, you can check it here:

Work in progress -> 3 threads

Funding Required -> 2 threads


You don't have any "Developers Thread" or "testing" area. Nothing. In Academic and technical you have only 9 threads!!!!

You are an absolute fraud. It's good that the real investors do some research, Monero is only a big hype.

Keep spamming, trolling and fudding hard the competition. That's the only you can do.


https://github.com/monero-project/bitmonero/commits/master
3309  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Peter Todd calls dash snake oil. on: July 19, 2015, 09:15:31 PM


I don't trust this system.  I can't see it and verify it.  What good is it for everything to be hidden completely, to the point where you have to trust that it is working?

With a simple, understandable system that fully protects the privacy of the user,  yet requires no trust - as was always the whole point of the decentralized crypto currency of Bitcoin - DASH is not more superior due to it's complexity, but due to it's simplicity.  If you're such a technocrat that you don't understand this, I can only feel bad for you because the majority of the world will.

LOL. Here's the attack vector Evan created out of ignorance, stupidity or pure not giving a fuck.

The easiest attack is to buy masternodes and ddos attack competing nodes until you own the traffic. Evan claims it's financially implausible, but ignores that nodes are most profitable when there about a 1,000 masternodes (he has a ROI graphic on the dash BCT thread that underscores this). He also ignores that the attacker would be pulling incomes from these masternodes--given that most are held on corporate servers underlies that no one knows who owns them outside of the host and the owner. He also ignores how motivated an attacker may be, that he or another masternode operator might comply given the right circumstances (threat or lawful compliance) and how deep LE's pockets are--silly, dangerous, stupid.

If you trust that system knowing the flaws, you deserve whatever comes your way--except maybe being linked to pedophiles--can you show that link on your explorer?
3310  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Peter Todd calls dash snake oil. on: July 19, 2015, 09:11:28 PM
Toknormal's description of how Cryptonote works or what is required for money to work was not legitimate.  With his pictures, he seemed to even imply that central bankers are needed for money to function at all.  Is this guy shilling?

He's trying to rationalize dash is better than bitcoin and monero at the things bitcoin and monero are best at. Bitcoin is the world's largest most secure decentralized clear blockchain. Monero is the world's largest and most secure decentralized opaque blockchain. He thinks (or wants us to believe)that masternodes are the preferred bridge between these two networks, but refuses to see (or admit) masternodes for what they really are: middlemen who can be bought and have control over the network they are supposed to decentralize and secure--so yeah, he is actually replacing bankers with masternodes and saying it is a good thing. Good for him and the other dash bagholders, bad for anyone who wants decentralization and/or privacy.

Whereas Bitcoin and Monero miners and payment processors can't be bought and controller, nor Monero coins borrowed and amassed to produce large amounts of ouputs to reduce the anonymity set.

Smooth has covered this with you and the other dashtards on multiple occasions. I need to save it so i can copy and paste it to your foreheads. Not that it makes dash any less snake oily.
3311  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Speculation (Altcoins) / Re: 60k Moneroj. Will i be a millionaire by 2017? on: July 19, 2015, 09:01:43 PM
The interesting thing is that if monero goes up and oy uput in that much, we will call you genius.  Otherwise we will call you a fool.

The distance between insanity and genius is measured only by success.

And considering this https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=753252.msg11919024#msg11919024 the timing would be pretty uncanny.
3312  Economy / Economics / Re: Economic Totalitarianism on: July 19, 2015, 08:30:38 PM

The block chain is a central component, but (afaik) everyone has been doing it (slightly but thus catastrophically) wrong.


But how to do it right? That's the big question.
3313  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Speculation (Altcoins) / Re: [XMR] Monero Speculation on: July 19, 2015, 08:00:15 PM
Today the general meeting of a certain Finnish company that already owns about 1% of XMR outstanding, has decided to refocus the company's mission to be a Monero fund, with the objective of converting its BTC holdings to XMR, and issuing shares to select parties and use the proceeds to acquire more XMR.

 Grin I'm smiling so hard it hurts! Oh the pain, the sweet, sweet pain!
3314  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Peter Todd calls dash snake oil. on: July 19, 2015, 07:07:50 PM
I don't think any of you are able to digest and understand what Toknormal is saying. You are ideologically blind.  I do hope that lightbulb moment will come to you some day.  In the mean time, Toknormal, you are the most eloquent at explaining this, and thus, you must continue to try, because this is of foundational importance.  

I can digest it, but it sits in my head the same way Thetans do when Tom Cruise waxes idiotic.

One of the hallmarks of eloquence is condensing large ideas into the smallest format available. This is what makes poetry so powerful and good speeches so short. When Shakespeare said, "Brevity is the soul of wit." He was saying wit with both its humorous and intellectual properties intact--adding example to meaning--Tok is about as eloquent as he is witty.

3315  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Peter Todd calls dash snake oil. on: July 19, 2015, 05:53:03 PM
Toknormal's description of how Cryptonote works or what is required for money to work was not legitimate.  With his pictures, he seemed to even imply that central bankers are needed for money to function at all.  Is this guy shilling?

He's trying to rationalize dash is better than bitcoin and monero at the things bitcoin and monero are best at. Bitcoin is the world's largest most secure decentralized clear blockchain. Monero is the world's largest and most secure decentralized opaque blockchain. He thinks (or wants us to believe)that masternodes are the preferred bridge between these two networks, but refuses to see (or admit) masternodes for what they really are: middlemen who can be bought and have control over the network they are supposed to decentralize and secure--so yeah, he is actually replacing bankers with masternodes and saying it is a good thing. Good for him and the other dash bagholders, bad for anyone who wants decentralization and/or privacy.
3316  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Peter Todd calls dash snake oil. on: July 19, 2015, 12:54:06 PM

Toknormal you have not the slightest clue how the technology works

Nothing would please me (or my wallet) more than for you to convince me of your case, since I could pick up nearly 5 times the amount of Monero for a given holding of Dash.

Somehow though...  Embarrassed

Maybe I'll just have to resign myself to the fact that I'm just "ignorant" as smooth  alludes to or a "moron" as Generlize says, and will have to consign myself to eternal poverty from now on  Wink

(P.S. It's the public who ultimately decides what is money and what isn't. If you're trying to define and pass of mere 'balances' as money then a public blockchain is a public blockchain. "Obscure" it at your peril).

I wrote moron or deluded by greed (cognitive dissonance).

We obscure cash every day in our wallets. People decided that, they actually created a thing to hide their money in because they either liked the privacy or thought they needed it--in your backwards dashworld, people are wearing their cash around their necks.
3317  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Peter Todd calls dash snake oil. on: July 19, 2015, 12:08:13 PM

Dash is not in competition with Monero, which is not a cryptocurrency, was not designed as a cryptocurrency and is unlikely to ever perform a cryptocurrency role other than as a minority speculative asset (as it is does right now).

Monero (or the original design specification that characterises cryptonote's behaviour) is a cryptographic record keeping system designed to track money in a bank. What some fly developer decided to do (wittingly or unwittingly) is lift the template for the record keeping system, ditch the bank and try to get away with calling the residual cryptographic transport mechanism "money".

Toknormal you have not the slightest clue how the technology works. The NSA document you linked bears no resemblance at all to how cryptonote works.

You would do your cause good to actually learn something about the actual design of what it is you are flailing around trying to criticize.

He doesn't understand how cash works either. He wants us all to live our digital lives without the wallet blindness afforded us by a leather wallet. He thinks all account balances should be public and on display for governments, mobsters, hackers, business competitors and our wives--Tok doesn't even get why people wouldn't want this public knowledge--he's a fucking moron or so deluded with his fantasy of dash becoming THE global currency that he misses the whole point of an anon coin--hiding shit when you want, showing shit when you want.
3318  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [XMR] Monero - A secure, private, untraceable cryptocurrency - 0.8.8.6 on: July 19, 2015, 08:42:52 AM
Will anyone be attending the I2p conference?

https://geti2p.net/en/blog/post/2015/07/16/I2PCon
3319  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Peter Todd calls dash snake oil. on: July 19, 2015, 08:35:54 AM

Thanks for that link, looks like the reward of running a masternode has gone up from $40/month to $56/month on average since then.

Must be that sweet pedo money rolling in. Guess we'll see when the feds get interested.  Wink
3320  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Peter Todd calls dash snake oil. on: July 19, 2015, 07:32:40 AM
This claim is not hart to rebut.
How many coins have been anonymized the past 24h, last week, last month and in total?

That's faulty reasoning and you ignore Peter's analysis at your own peril. Once a theoretical attack happens, it will be too late for those engaged in the system--like a snake oil salesman pointing to his healthy assistant as proof that his oil is the real-deal and will solve your problems. Meanwhile traces of asbestos in the magic potion are giving long term users cancer.

Masternodes add an attack vector and any cryptographer worth a damn will point out that these systems are fragile enough without adding things that will complicate their workings until the point they don't work as intended. *A month back, I calculated that 95% of masternodes were concentrated on corporate hosting sites within the borders of 5 countries--all friendly and most likely willing to share data on something as abhorrent as pedophiles mining a coin for illicit use-- this is only one attack vector available.  Maybe instead of saying he's wrong because there isn't yet proof that the coin has been compromised, you could ask him to document his findings and pay him for his time.

* https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1077613.0
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