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Very interesting, thanks for sharing. We've been depleting earth of it's oil for quite some time, removing the lubricant from the earth's plates, it makes sense that a tsunami of some sort could spawn as a result of the damage to our home.
I think this is a wake up call.
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I wouldn't be as naive to call an individual god, as that's similar to calling a tree god. They are only a piece of it. Atlas may be more in touch with his consciousness than others, I'm not channeling anything but love.
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Actually, you know what, you're right. Just like the SA forums, people can lie to each other and create a sense of happiness. But it's not love. It's ego, people lie to each other to boost their egos and miss out on the beauty of truth.
i do not like to put people in boxes, BUT you sound like a Kantian, with some weird Freudian choice of words. Not at all. Logic shows us that lying brings us division and truth, unity. Just think about it. I find a girl and open up everything about me to her, honestly, we create a sense of oneness, we fall in love. Then later down the road, when a lie is said between us, do you think that doesn't impede our love by creating division, separation? It's logic. You can lie to people, and even if they believe your lie, you still lied, that act still happened. You can't lie to your self, ultimately, you still know. |
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As I just said, it's not true happiness. It's the same "happiness" we've dealt with in our society for thousands of years. It's the same division and hate, but if that is what you seek.
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However you find your consciousness, love. We learn by changing our perception, after all. When we see words on the screen, we are changing our perception, visually. When we talk, our senses perceive energy that we understand as information, logic. If you're doing the same thing over and over, you're not changing your perception, it's good to try new things and live life freely to learn and become more aware.
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Actually, you know what, you're right. Just like the SA forums, people can lie to each other and create a sense of happiness. But it's not love. It's ego, people lie to each other to boost their egos and miss out on the beauty of truth.
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You're not being honest with yourself, Rudd. Do you really believe people can't tell when you lie to them, 100% of the time? Even if they don't know it at first, the truth reveals itself with time.
Do you feel happy when you're lied to?
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I never said it was exclusive to humans. Earth as a whole is still in the ego bound stage of society, for now.
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Everyone is just as smart as each other. Some people are just less aware and therefor seemingly lacking intellect. The good thing is anyone can increase their awareness, simply by doing so. Become self observant.
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All I've said here is that rational egoists of the social dominant variety have no problem exploting utilitarian theories to gain power for themselves. I referred to this observation as these men being both rational egoists and utilitarians. I think that's a savory and useful conclusion which also happens to be true.
How that is "controversial" or makes me "illogicalzzzlollzzzozll", I truly do not know.
Yes, those that sell their soul for greed exploit the conscience of others, that doesn't make them a person for the greater good. It's an illusion, do you understand? |
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And they will get their karma, the universe will make things right, it always does, that's nature.
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Well, let's look at history, shall we? Earth has seemingly always have a organized power structure over society. Power and control have always been evident from people's egotistic, self-serving nature. But that's what makes us human. Where did that get us? Should we continue the cycle of lies, violence, greed and power? Or should we try something new, should we try being honest, loving?
Is it possible lying does not land you in heaven after all? If you lie, to others, you're only lying to yourself. You're only creating division. Division is what we've had for the last few millenniums. How is it working? When you are honest, confess your guilt, to anyone, and come clean with your consciousness, you can find love and unity. Truth is love, lying is hateful.
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That's fine, but I think the fear of me scamming you is a little irrational, since I've transacted over 1000 BTC on these forums. I have done nothing but represent myself as an honest person. Different? Sure, but always honest.
You cannot gain anything by acting dishonest. It may seem like you can gain something by lying, but ultimately you're lying to yourself and only divide you from others.
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^ I read scientology
Never. I thought in my head. Anyone can figure this out. |
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We are enslaved by fear and doubt. It's what makes us human. We must find love to be free. We must find the truth.
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in capable of reasoning logically. hitting ignore button.
Tehehe. I love how some people allege that their interlocutors are "in capable (sic) of reasoning logically", but they don't even bother pointing out what the logical error is (which should be pretty trivial, if I have indeed made a logical error). To be fair, a person like kokjo is better off not reading what I have to say. Let me try to explain. One person cannot be an honest man and a lire at the same time. Yes, he can act like an honest man, but he what he acts like does not change his true nature. If they use love to bring them power over others, they are acting on their ego, for self gain. If they are using love to bring power to others, they are acting out of love. It can't be both, even if people live in false realities, at the end of the day, they know the truth. but from a utalitarian standpoint it would be perfectly good to lie IF it maximises happiness. eg. scared person to you and you see which way he runs. murder comes asking "which way did he run?". do you lie and save the persons life, or tell the truth and let the person die? a utilitarian would lie, a Kantian(deontolog?) would panic and be incapable of performing any action(must not lie, must save lifes), and a rational egoist would not care. Lying does not maximize happiness. That is a fallacy. That's like saying going to war generates peace. |
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in capable of reasoning logically. hitting ignore button.
Tehehe. I love how some people allege that their interlocutors are "in capable (sic) of reasoning logically", but they don't even bother pointing out what the logical error is (which should be pretty trivial, if I have indeed made a logical error). To be fair, a person like kokjo is better off not reading what I have to say. Let me try to explain. One person cannot be an honest man and a lire at the same time. Yes, he can act like an honest man, but he what he acts like does not change his true nature. If they use love to bring them power over others, they are acting on their ego, for self gain. If they are using love to bring power to others, they are acting out of love. It can't be both, even if people live in false realities, at the end of the day, they know the truth. |
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How can you be for the greater good of people if you tell them you'll end wars and you start three more? If they only use love for power, they are not loving and therefor not utilitarian, so how are they all utilitarians, rather than egotistical?
[...]
Sorry, can you respond to my argument first? Thanks. Do not introduce new and unsubstantiated hypotheses like "well, they must be lying to themselves". What? Don't introduce new concepts that might teach you something? |
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Utilitarianism can be used -- in fact, it was used -- to justify Hitler's Holocaust, Tsarist Russia pogroms, Lenin's "cut their heads and hang them high so everyone can see them", Mao's mass starvation (the biggest mass death in history), et cetera. Utilitarianism is, indeed, the "moral system" (ugh) that underpins all forms of statism.
That was not utilitarianism being utilized. Lying and deceiving others is not love or moral, logically.Nope, sorry. If you're an utilitarian, you can't know or tell anyone whether "lying and deceiving others" is moral for sure. Even the most cursory of examples will disprove that. A utilitarian can very well apply utilitarianism and conclude that "lying and deceiving others" could very well be "moral", because lying and deceiving could conceivably be argued to increase global happiness. Another utilitarian may apply utilitarianism and conclude that "lying and deceiving others" could very well be "immoral", because "lying and deceiving others" could conceivably be argued to decrease global happiness. Since both conclusions are drawn from opinions as to what increases or decreases global happiness (which is an unknowable), and cannot be fact-checked in any way, what usually ends up happening is that the utilitarian that controls the guns, yells louder, or lies more better, ends up "winning" the debate. Then all the other authoritarians say "Well, by Golly, if Hitlermaostalin says that killing teh Joos will make us happier, then I'mma get right on Kristallnachting 'em." So yes, Hitler, Mao, Stalin, Lenin, they might not have been "utilitarians" in the textbook sense, but they were all relying on utilitarianism to seduce fools and gain power. If a person honestly thinks lying is moral and justifiable, they're lying to theirself. Let's use logic on a simular example. What if people thought they had the right to be violent in the instance of revenge? The cycle of revenge would never end, humanity would end. Humans have to take the time to form a believe about the morality of lying and realize that it's not love. Love is true, how can a lie be true? You may kid yourself to believing it's true, form a false reality, but deep in you, you know lying isn't honest, it isn't love. As kokjo said, they did it for power. Power is division, lying divides people and gives people a sense of control over others. Truth unites people. |
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