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Says one low post count account user to the other low count account....
Funny how all the low count posters are fine with everything done by BFL. How does that work? Are they employees trying to change the way things appear at Bitcointalk?
Nah....couldn't be....
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Will they send me 1 unit @ 50Gh/s and 2X 5Gh/s since I paid for 60Gh/s? Maybe I'm too optimistic on that one  So....(Inaba) this wasn't an April fools? Someone find me a picture of "So much Fail". |
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Because...(read my signature)
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That sir, is the truest form of BS. Ummm... Warning: BFL has failed to deliver for > 140+ Days. It could be a scam!
BFL started taking pre order money in June 2012, but have not shipped a single ASIC device up until April 2013. There's no evidence they even have a working prototype. Right. Who's the one spouting bullshit now? Sorry Nathan (A known BFL supporter), I'll update it right now. I haven't been around in these last few days. One quick second. Moving my counter up a bit... |
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BLAH BLAH BLAH
---------------------------
BLAH BLAH BLAH
Fact: BLAH
Fact: BLAH
Fact: BLAH
Fact: BLAH
------------------------
Conclusion: I'm a troll.
Conlusion, yes you are a troll. But a special troll. The kind that opens new accounts simply to respond to legitimate points under a pseudonym. You are Joshin' me right? Fact: You have been informed already that Josh/BFL has agreed that they lost the bet and will be donating 1000BTC to a charity.. multiple times Dummy! This is about a different bet. This has nothing to do with that bet! Learn to read and comprehend. Or in your filtered reading ability. Blah...Blah. ...you are beyond the definition of Ultra-troll. I always thought BFL made a SUPER stupid mistake by hiring a little immature brat like Josh to be the frontman to their operation here.. but you are certainly the very essence of the word "troll". I cannot hold a candle to my brother Josh. None, no not one, can match his Joshin'. (See this thread and others as a reference) How people just let you go on and on and on with your bullshit is beyond me. It's really not hard to make BFL look stupid.. and when you try SOOOO damn hard it just makes you look like a jackass. They should temp-ban all the people who's ignore button is as colorful as yours.
That is funny. I am just voicing the obvious. So what? Are you for them winning the bet on this slippery and sliding scam? The guy says he left his "machine" at BFL when he went home. He states that it was delivered to him in his hands @ BFL.... Then, he says he wants it shipped to "his home" in another "foreign nation". Can you say contradictions? This shows he never had any intent to keep it at BFL. This much is evident. We don't even know if he has even accepted that "prototype" as his. For all we know, Luke is expecting a corrected PCB with his order. The kind that consumes alot less than 180watts. All we do know is that Josh does not consider the device functional or ready to be shipped. That is the case. (someone link to BFL's youtube account where Josh explicitly admits this.) Then, there is the issue of Josh taking the photo for him (apparently) and Luke pretending it was him taking the photo. That requires an actual intention to deceive BetsofBitcoin. One small mistake made the situation complicated in that [assumed] lie. -------------------- To add insult to injury, (and I respect Luke as a fellow Christian) the guy seems to be helping them stretch the truth to it's limits. I don't know what the reasoning is or what the idea is behind that. But I have to call BS. That sir, is the truest form of BS. Both Josh and Luke admit the device isn't complete, that shipping is slated for the future. Yet at the same time, they want to claim a bet for which the stipulation(s) are not met. Lets be serious about this. They never shipped. It even comes out of their own mouths (Before/During/After). If Logic offends you, don't come to BitCoinTalk. Go to....BFL forums. I guarantee you, you will see logic being defied every day. |
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Ignoring the title, let's work with the conditionals for a moment and break them down: • Before April 1st 2013, at least one BFL customer with a bitcointalk.org forum account established prior to the bet's opening date shall post detailed and credible photos of the device on the forum, including photos of it operating, and report its hashrate. This customer cannot be a BFL employee.
" at least one BFL customer" - Condition Met" with a bitcointalk.org forum account established prior to the bet's opening date" - Condition Met" shall post detailed and credible photos of the device on the forum" - Condition Not Met --- Did Luke take the pictures and post them or did Josh? To that end, which forum is this condition referring to? How much detail is "enough" detail? Does the "device" have to be of consumer quality [not a test board, but one that could be shipped to a customer]? " including photos of it operating, and report its hashrate." - Condition Met" This customer cannot be a BFL employee." - Condition Met• The device must achieve at least 75% of its advertised hashrate.
" device must achieve at least 75% of its advertised hashrate" - Condition MetToo much ambiguity, information credibility, and a problem meeting part of the conditions leads me to believe the outcome of the bet is: True -- BFL has not shipped before April 1st, 2013 - Key phase, before you can evaluate this analysis, you have to agree with the posters assumption that the title is not important in determining the bet. This title reads very specifically so either you the title should matter or not. It does set a precedent. I think misleading titles should be a factor if people think BFL did met the outcome requirement to affirm the bet. This precedent, if it occurs, would and should turn over many bets placed at BetsofBitcoin. Should they start this slippery slope of defining what is and isn't legitimate in the regions of a bets text (Title for example). That will lead to others claiming that previous Bets should very be turned on its head. |
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I do not think the words product or a device could be used to describe this thing.
Does the thingy in the picture have all the parts that belong to the product or the device assembled to a formation in which those parts are in a real product or a real device? No. Therefore no product and not a device.
I also agree it has not been shipped.
Some assembly "is required". LOL. You also need "a Luke Jr." to finish programming the software for the device. He is not included in the box with your single order. Oh and the PCB shown is being revised as the COO of BFL has said that the device is utilizing a dangerous load within the designed parameters of the device.... This means that they have to redo the PCB (yes they admitted this) *before* shipping the final product out to customers. See how that works? It's good enough for Luke Jr. But not for every other customer. Who's to even say Josh isn't lying and Luke will get a different machine that consumes far less power. (a revised model that is different from the one shown in the picture at BFL labs.) I would opinionate and say this constitutes a knowing, willing intent and intelligently thought out fraud/scheme of some kind being enacted against the betting pool. |
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The BFL ASIC never left the BFL Lab therefor it was never "shipped".  Avalons where photographed being unpacked from their shipping containers. Really at a loss for words here. really coinjedi? Can't call this one yet? too close in your eyes? I will not be placing any more bets at betsofbitco.in seeing how you can be 100% correct with your wagers and have the payout in question. I can't bet like that. This is such a simple matter, the fact that coinjedi let JZ even briefly pause his decision on this statement is cause for concern. Imagine if something was actually, really close! how easily could coinjedi be manipulated one way or the other? No kidding. It is pretty easy to call. Just the shipping part of the bet is pretty....darn obvious. |
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Hello everyone,
As it is part of running a betting service, sometimes we have to make some decisions that will not please all of our users. This is certainly one of these cases. I agree that the bet description statements are barely satisfied but the bet is actually on "shipping" of a commercial product. To the best of our judgment the pictured device is still an internal development unit within the company premises, even if it is somehow "owned" by a non-employee. As far as I can see even BFL doesn't officially claim shipping. Under these circumstances we can not rule the statement as false. Our decision is currently not final and we will be listening your input for a few days before the final decision. Feel free to raise your opinion.
Please note that I have physically handled my unit, and BFL has it at their office now only at my own request that they keep it there for the time being. As I understand it, BFL's "shipping" refers to their Batch 1 which has special shipping constraints. The plan to provide units to developers in advance, including the ones I paid for such as this Little Single, has been there all along, so it would be unreasonable IMO to exclude it from the bet. I believe you should be able to verify that I have no stake in the bet (unless it's semi-anonymous or something); I have no objections if you wish to disclose that. Which you asked them to ship to you later on.... Again, they haven't "shipped" it. It's not even complete nor fully assembled (and fully functioning and an end user product. This bet is way too easy to call if you aren't distorting and contorting conclusions. --------------------------- There is an easy standard to apply. You intended to have it shipped to you. You have said openly on the forum that you decline to give that tracking information publicly when it does come. So it is circumstantial that it was left in BFL's hands and they have yet to complete their official duty of shipping it to your home/residence. Fact: It was incomplete. Fact: It is not a retail model. (as in, a finished product) Fact: You want it to be removed from BFL (or it's employees care) and shipped to you overseas via a courier. Fact: BFL has not finished fulfilling your order to its intended destination. (requires shipping as of April 1st.) ------------------------ Conclusion: BFL lost the bet. |
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By this same reasoning I could say that Avalon shipped earlier than January 20th.
I simply had Yifu hold it for me as he tested and transported it to his shipping department where it was "hosted" on the "test bench". Good for me, I later decided I wanted it to be shipped to my residence in another nation.
....Yes....that is right. Avalon shipped way before January 20th. <Wink, Wink>
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Picture was posted at 1:36 AM EST. 96 minutes too late. Reported hashrate is below 75% of the advertised hashrate, if Luke ordered a Big Single. Supposedly the pictured device has not, in fact, been shipped to Luke, and is actually still at BFL, with the picture having been taken by Josh. In the 2 actual terms of the bet a time zone was not specified. You cannot add specifics to a bet after the fact. Luke ordered a little single and even stated quite a few times that this is a little single. 25/30 > 75% The unit shipped from BFL to Josh's hosting facility where Luke is in full control of the unit. A company can hand deliver an item and it still counts as shipped. To make that argument you would have to show that the finished product is viable and useful. Otherwise, you could slap a blank PCB on the table in front of contracted labor who <cough>purchased a unit<cough> and claim that this product is "shipped". Claiming "it works" and it is finished and shipped is just....dumb. It is incomplete, unstable, "shipped" at BFL's facility or those run by a BFL employee while the person "receiving it" (Luke) is in another nation and claims it has yet to be shipped "to him" via a courier to the nation of his residence. |
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Hmm, something odd here. After applying the 03/25 firmware I noticed that the fan RPMs are stuck at 1800 for FAN2 and 1920 for FAN3. Has anyone else experienced this? I'm assuming this is a firmware bug.
its more likely you need to apply the firmware in the instructed manner. Yes I have experience a bug regarding the Fan speed. The fans (I think) are operating normally. The fan speed readings are not working very well. |
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For this statement to be false, both of the two following conditions must be met:
• Before April 1st 2013, at least one BFL customer with a bitcointalk.org forum account established prior to the bet's opening date shall post detailed and credible photos of the device on the forum, including photos of it operating, and report its hashrate. This customer cannot be a BFL employee.
• The device must achieve at least 75% of its advertised hashrate.
It does sound like they met these requirements. Wow, what a slimy way to win a bet. Good thing I made my wagers on bitbet. Always read the fine print!!
For what it's worth, I agree that the bet is won, the screenshot was posted, and the date on the screenshot is 2013-03-31 so it was March, it was in Luke's possession, it was mining and it's a little single within 75% parameters of 30Gh (it was hashing at average of 23.52 which is 78%. Luke-Jr received the rig by picking it up in person at the BFL premises (which BFL have stated is fine if arranged in advance) then leaving it there to be hosted. Nowhere in the bet were any other rules stated. I don't think this is a debate that will ever be concluded though because people will have diametrically opposed views based on their ideology, regardless of how betsofbitcoin resolve it, there will be a load of angry/unhappy people. Will Sorry, but it is not a finished product and isn't the retail (as in production ready) model. It is a board screwed to a metal plate with incomplete software and is (bluntly put) a prototype. They do not win the bet. Not by a mile. |
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This customer cannot be a BFL employee.
Exactly, Luke-Jr is not an employee. You'll see that I referenced this requirement in my second to last post. Wait, he gets flown out to do programming for BFL and he is not an employee? What is his order number by the way? I am assuming Luke ordered his units at the very start of the line....right? Whats that? It is part of his compensation scheme? Wait...since when do customers get compensated when they [probably] haven't paid cash or BTC for an order? (Called a transaction of goods) Sounds to me like he is an employee or contracted labor. -------------------------- Don't think so? Can he arrive at BFL labs, say he doesn't want to program anything and take his order home with him [like a customer can]? No...? Then he is an employee performing a job for compensation. Simple theory right? |
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25GH for a mini single which draws 179W, almost the same power consumption as avalon, but I heard there is a wafer by wafer difference in chip's power consumption, could be lower than that number, but 120W at least. So 240W for a full single running at 60GH, with that amount of heat, open rig is the only choice  So indeed that is a shipped product, everyone have to run it like that, and there is a turbo blow fan on the left side of the heatsink, not in the photo  Does this meant the Mini-rig will require a wind tunnel to operate properly? |
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Wait a minute! He didn't honor the seppuku....scammer tag earned! It's his honor at stake, so that means it's seppuku or the scammer tag. Mods? Please weigh in on this! |
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And the plot thickens..
Where is Luke right now? |
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My suggestion, don't bother putting on all the "screws." Two at each corner (top and bottom if looking straight on) will suffice. Also I would mention the keyword "pincers"
Does anyone truly understand this positive pressure buildup that supposedly facilitates cooling that ngzhang talks about? To my mind it just represents heat buildup. Otoh, if ngzhang is correct, you should be screwing down the top tightly. I always put things back together with all intended parts. I recommend others do that too. In either case, anyone know what the 3 module units have as a power supply? I am not previously a miner and therefore I intend to buy a superior replacement should I ever encounter the red blinking light. Recommendations from the Avalon team are most welcome! |
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That's my guess as well (not utilizing PWM). I'm of course referring to the blue LED fan which is the one that cools the far left (power supply) section of the system.
I guess this fan is not PWM The problem is, that it was reporting the FAN RPM on the 3/21/2013 Firmware. Which strongly implies that it is PWM enabled. It is probably a software/firmware bug. Downgrade to previous one then. My rule of thumb is that never upgrade unless you have severe problem with current firmware I did have a severe enough problem to warrant the upgrade. It stopped mining and went into a contentious cycle without effectively mining bit-coins. After an upgrade, the unit stopped cycling in that odd behavior. It also restarts by itself when the mining stops for whatever reason. It still does stop mining every 12 hours, but it resets itself without any intervention on my part. So it is pretty much running itself on NEXT firmware (v3/25/2013). I'm just wondering. When you upgraded to the NEXT firmware did you stop the cgminer process or no. I would assume one has to stop all system activity. I did stop all mining activity. I simply did this by wiping the settings back to factory default on 3/21. I assumed that was what the Wiki instructed in very bad English. I then waited about 20 minutes to make sure the reset was done. (Had a hard time reconnecting as the settings changed to an odd configuration.) Then I went ahead and flashed the firmware. Finally I reuploaded a configuration backup I had stored previously. Then made sure all settings were correct and it started working by itself. It (The Avalon Device) does encounter errors, but it simply resets itself without human intervention. So at most only a few minutes each day are lost. I hope this helps. |
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Well Inaba claims they aren't shipping yet. So they lose numerous bets. "I want to clarify the above post, as there is some potential confusion. We are not shipping yet. We plan on shipping possibly by the end of next week, but I will update on a shipping schedule as soon as I have more definitive information with regards to that." https://forums.butterflylabs.com/announcements/692-bfl-asic-status-3.html#post21092 |
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