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3341  Bitcoin / Electrum / LTC electrum on: April 27, 2013, 06:02:10 AM
how developed is the LTC elecetrum, on win/linux/osx?
3342  Bitcoin / Electrum / Elcturn loading privakeys what format EDIT its ok now on: April 27, 2013, 06:01:20 AM
what is the format eg hex, 58, qt does elctrum load privated key in.

I have tried several formats now and it does not work!!!

Edit::its okay it appears to be QT (wif?) format???
3343  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: PPCoin is NOT a decentralized cryptocurrency on: April 27, 2013, 05:55:49 AM
Yes. Everything is open source. However, recreating the design documents from the source code is like trying to learn about civil engineering from looking at how people build bridges.

Really???

I have found the opposite its only be reading and running parts of the code I can actually understand whats going on.....

the design docs are often not spot on/not useful.
Please feel encouraged to help create design documents based on the source code. I'll be available to revise them.

There are many important aspects about a cryptocurrency which are not readily available from the source code. E.g. Sunny chose to use a POW mining reward as a function of difficulty^4. What is the rationale for that? Ideally Sunny would have at least performed a calculation to derive good parameters. Unless many things are just random - but that would not qualify as design.

you can learn civil by looking at bridges!!!
Good luck trying to assess design flaws this way.

well, you can by NDT and other mechanisims, however os code is much different, I can go to the guts of every piece and test it individually...

what I usually do is rip out class by class, function by function and put in test rig code and throw generated (rather extreme) parameters at it to see if it behaves as expected and out a whole load of debug exceptions so you can verify your understanding....

I'm not sure what other people do....
3344  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: My coins just got stolen from blockchain.info on: April 27, 2013, 05:18:13 AM
Two passwords, each unique to the site and a yubikey. Only device attached to the account was my cellphone - which was in my pocket while I was driving to work as this heist occurred.

https://blockchain.info/tx/1826f610d9dea7698d906da8f874974240204f42500fa621f1581c7023c6cc61

I think I'm going to vomit...

how does it get past yubi key and 2 passwords....did it inject a redirect???
3345  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: PPCoin is NOT a decentralized cryptocurrency on: April 27, 2013, 03:06:23 AM
is all the ppc code os?

if so can't you just read through the code?
Yes. Everything is open source. However, recreating the design documents from the source code is like trying to learn about civil engineering from looking at how people build bridges.

Really???

I have found the opposite its only be reading and running parts of the code I can actually understand whats going on.....

the design docs are often not spot on/not useful.

you can learn civil by looking at bridges!!!
3346  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: PPCoin is NOT a decentralized cryptocurrency on: April 26, 2013, 04:48:11 PM
The way I see it, the goal of PPCoin should be to lead the Proof of Stake currency space. As such a leader, it is essential that a simple security model for how it works is prepared and presented. The model should be on the same "analysis complexity level" as Satoshi's whitepaper - it should make it easy for every capable person to validate the model's assumptions and predictions.
....
Isn't there a Grand Unifying Theory of PoS that is easy to analyze, "secure enough", and diminishes the significance of PoW as time progresses?
Unfortunately the community will have to reverse engineer the security model of ppcoin in an effort to document it. On that note I'd like to push the idea of a tournament scheme to introduce a habit of exploring the security of POS (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=152809.0). I haven't had time to work on the details, but the idea is out there and people should state their opinions.

The POS implementation in ppcoin and any of its derivatives is mainly broken at this time. There has been an acclaimed "fix", but based on my analysis all it did was to disguise the underlying problems. A practice which seems to be systemic for the development of ppcoin. However, that doesn't prevent people from bidding the price of ppcoin up - 99% of traders have no technical understanding.

The current POS implementation in ppcoin has the following problems:
1) No theory model on required stake granularity and steady state allocations for stake. I want to see a differential equation.
2) Missing incentive structure to perform transaction validation
3) No effective cost for working on competing branches with respect to the main chain
4) Reversibility between stake and coins - leading to a situation in which market price manipulations change the incentive structure for allocating stake

Especially 4) gets me worried. It exhibits opposite dynamics to POW. In POW, an increase in price encourages investments in hashing power and leads to a strengthening of the network, while in POS, an increase in price creates an incentive to move coins out of stake, effectively weakening the network. However 4) could be dealt with a protocol enhancement which prevents the reversibility between stake and coins.

I still stand by my assessment that ppcoin is an unfinished cryptocurrency. Any investments in it will evaporate as soon as the underlying flaws start to affect the resilience of the system. Buyer beware, drama included!

is all the ppc code os?

if so can't you just read through the code?
3347  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: PPCoin is NOT a decentralized cryptocurrency on: April 26, 2013, 03:24:28 PM
@Sunny and @AndyRossy,

How about that EGO claim of Sunny's eh? Someone has a huge ego claiming their development time into PPC which they have no formula, have no analysis, and have an incomplete white paper is worth $100k-$200k and that bitcoin development is ONLY worth about $500k, don't you think?

So funny that many of the claims that are made are so true of yourselves in your attempts to continually detract attention from PPC and the important questions that people have asked and will continue to ask.


hang on hang on even if this quote is attributable (and I can get my retinas back)...so what

this maybe a true claim of cost to do....I think you (or someone) admitted Sunnys work was more complex. It's not (always)ego to say  I think my work is worth X and that work over there is worth Y. It just a persons market appraisal.

3348  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Begging for XRP on: April 26, 2013, 03:10:08 PM

<pirate hat on>
arrrr

1 BTC

for 400 XRP

me rates be high!

</pirate hat off>
 

3349  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: THE BITCOIN FOUNDATION, INC. on: April 26, 2013, 02:29:47 PM
"if any thing can make it fail, this foundation can"

Anon
3350  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Bteex.com the worlds firt bte exchange goes live on: April 26, 2013, 01:58:55 PM
How about allowing the order book to be viewed without login?
Done

I can't see anything in the order book?
3351  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Is StrongCoin's 'hybrid wallet' a lie? (Or rather, are ALL hybrid wallet a lie?) on: April 26, 2013, 01:41:41 PM
A large flaw in your position is in relation to the "law"

the Law is essentially an instrument of stupidity, unfairness and for the Govt and large Corps / Rich to crush you.

I would argue the the strongest point of CC's is the elision of sovereignty from the state to the individual, with all that entails






I have an Android phone and have some of my Bitcoins stored on it using Andreas Schildbach's bitcoin wallet for Android. I like many others update my software without looking at it particularly hard. I have not done much programming for a long time.

Andreas could easily pull the same stunt that StrongCoin did and put a special bit of code that steals back stolen funds. It gets worse even. Andreas's software depends on bitcoinj, written by Mike Hearn, who has repeatedly written about blacklists and also does not particularly value anonymity, and does believe Bitcoin can and should be regulated.

Would he sneak some code into bitcoinj itself to steal back stolen funds? Probably not but I can never be sure. (edit: to be clear I mention Mike not because I think he would, but rather because for someone whose views I oppose so strongly I still am trusting him surprisingly directly with hundreds of dollars)

Trust is a very hard problem.

Seeing as you invoked me here, allow me to respond.

Firstly, we are all aware that wallet developers are weak points in the trust chain. I have already started tackling this problem for the case of the Android wallet by researching and obtaining code that can do genuine RSA threshold signing using the Shoup algorithm. I can assure you it was not easy to track down a real threshold RSA library, as far as I can tell none are publicly available (fortunately the one I obtained is open source, just oddly enough it's not distributed).

At the moment the Android wallet isn't being signed using threshold keys but that's just because I didn't get around to it yet. This will come with time, assuming Andreas agrees of course. Once that's done only a quorum of people could make new releases that phones and the Play Store accept. It'd make backdooring a wallet much harder. At any rate, there's no good way to find out via block chain analysis that someone is using Bitcoin Wallet or MultiBit so the same kind of dilemma dogisland faced won't come up.

The second thing I want to comment on is your trolling about what I believe or my trustworthiness. Like a lot of other people, you seem incapable of distinguishing writing about a future possibility with actually supporting it or believing it's a good idea.

In my posts on this forum over the years I've explored many ideas - some of them people here really like such as peer to peer exchanges/credit or how to implement lightweight SPV clients ... and others that a lot of people don't, such as how governments might tax or regulate Bitcoin users. Exploring these ideas doesn't imply wanting to actually make them happen, no more than Gregory writing about StorJ implied that he thinks autonomous lifeforms that evolve and hire humans is a good idea. It's just an intriguing possibility that's worth thinking and writing about.

There's another distinction you're (probably deliberately) failing to make. Just because I think Bitcoin users can be regulated doesn't mean I think all those regulations are a great idea. The fact that users can be regulated is unarguable at this point, lots of people who were running exchanges have had their bank accounts shut down because they didn't follow all the rules, and in the past police (in the USA) have busted people as apparently innocuous as car dealerships for failing to do the right paperwork when accepting cash transactions. If you think using Bitcoin makes you immune to the law, then you're gonna get slapped in the face by reality the moment you scale up your business and get noticed. I mean, it's easy to bluster about sticking it to the man when all you do is generate forum posts. Once you start running a real business, unless you can somehow do it entirely online and perfectly anonymously like the Dread Pirate does, well you're going to have to get in line or go to jail. That's not an opinion, just fact.

Now no reasonable person would be stupid enough to argue blindly for or against "regulations" in general, all that word means is rules and only the most extreme anarchists believe society should have no rules at all. Even libertarians believe that the state should enforce contracts, and contract law is large and complex. Our worlds are full of regulations on everything from finance to the labelling of meat products. You have to weigh up the cost and benefit of specific rules on a case by case basis to figure out if you support them or not. As it happens, I feel the value of many financial regulations are rather questionable. You can easily see how they evolved the way they did and each step along the way probably seemed reasonable at the time, but it was a "road to hell paved with good intentions" type thing. The costs are really high and the benefits often don't seem to be there. Maybe the best possible solution is no financial regulations at all, or maybe there's some in-between sort of compromise solution that helps society keep a lid on thieves, hackers and other scummy types whilst not impinging on civil liberties or creating red-tape overload. That's a topic worth thinking about and exploring, and I personally haven't made my mind up yet. I don't much like the current way finance and crime-fighting intersect, but I haven't decided if I dislike the general concept or just the way it works today.

Regardless, my own opinions on the matter don't affect existing laws or enforcement of them.
3352  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Bteex.com the worlds firt bte exchange goes live on: April 26, 2013, 01:33:00 PM
I am most pleased to present http://bteex.com/ the worlds first bytecoin exchange and for that matter as far as i know the worlds first virtual currency only exchange.

This was a collaboration between myself and from ditto here on the forums. Really I'm just the capital, ditto did all the programing.

I would recommend starting out with very small trades early on since it is still in the very early stages of development and slowly work your way to larger trades as you begin to feel comfortable. There is a 0.5% commission on each side of a trade and 1% fee for with drawls.

good luck and happy trading!

Good luck....!
3353  Economy / Economics / Re: Early Retirement Extreme on: April 26, 2013, 10:55:34 AM

If dollars hyperinflate, then $100k may not buy much.

This is the stupidy of the deflation argument so often quoted on these forums, most people with any investments/wealth keep it in property/stocks/income generating assets. These assets largely outperform inflation, so real values go up not down over time.

Most people, especially in here, don't understand that most "assets" are not investments because they have been brainwashed by banks to think that their devalued car is an asset. Their house is an asset. And so on.
When in reality, if it were not for the housing bubble, most people would never see any kind of profit from a home sale. And you certainly cannot expect to profit from selling most cars. Yet banks view this form of chattel as something with value and therefore brainwash you to believe that you are making money by owning them and borrowing from the bank against them.

The stupidity of people never ceases to amaze.

a house is an asset...and can generate net income

it can also be an appreciating asset.

also at what point is a bubble no longer a bubble....eg the Australian housing market still has not popped, particularly in Sydney, it may have gone down 1-3%, but then in one month goes 1.5%. I wish it would pop....but they have taken to calling it the longest bubble ever....!

The problem I think, is property is a religion there....so may defy reason for an indefinite amount of time.....
3354  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / IXC....moving again...and working....? on: April 26, 2013, 09:17:23 AM
So I have been taking a look at IXC, and it has had its issues, ardent detractors because of premine, though others have come forward as it being legit and OK...

So I tried it out with a few coins, the networks appears to work well, quite fast confirmations, has a hash rate that's ok, 3 x TRC Hash....

and I took a good long think about the premine....I have come to the view that a premine is not a problem, as all coins are defacto premine by the first few to point asics / mass rigs at them.

In fact knowing there is a premine, allows me to price in risk better than not knowing or deluding myslef that there is not a defacto premine.

I think the concept around the pre-mine has to change, it just sour grapes from people who wanted to be early adopters, but some one beat them to it, so it gets bad press. Simple solution sart you own chain and premine that, if you want to do that

anyway I am interested in hearing peoples views as to why there is signs of Life recently on vircurex for IXC and it possible future.

What happened to the original guy?
3355  Economy / Economics / Re: Would a permanent 50BTC block reward have changed the discussion? on: April 26, 2013, 06:22:22 AM
When I explain Bitcoins to people for the very first time the one thing that always gets them interested, the one hook that gets them into Bitcoins above and beyond any other statement is:

Noobs know nothing about preminers, hoarders and lost wallets (destroyed coins)
We need a small nominal inflation of 1-5% just to keep the real inflation to 0% in the bitcoin world.

Cough Cough.....PPC.

3356  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Everything Is Rigged: The Biggest Price-Fixing Scandal Ever on: April 26, 2013, 06:14:48 AM
If everything is rigged.

Then the Bitcoin price is rigged!

 Shocked

consider: compare the likelihood that mt. gox is currently 'rigging' the price of a bitcoin compared to the likelihood that any other commodity is being rigged by a particular bank. compare the relative concentration and power. many users of this forum are living in a fantasy land.

but if they rigging it, and you rig it, it evens out! so that's ok as well
3357  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: THE LTC effect ON BTC on: April 25, 2013, 04:14:17 PM
PPC needs to work out the checkpoint issue and also someone mentioned that POS can still be gamed.

I like the idea of PPC but there are still issues.

Also PPC can never be 1:1 with Bitcoin unless Bitcoin actually fails, because there are already more PPC than Bitcoins in existence.

yes but it appears there will be some 2 million less PPC all told...I may be wrong

2 million less? I may be mistaken but at the moment there are more PPC than BTC and PPC will continue to expand the currency supply quicker than BTC for all eternity, being as there is no upper limit for PPC*.

*There is a 2 billion upper limit but its meant to be unlimited.

That means if both PPC and BTC continue to exist BTC will always be more valuable because there will always be more PPC, unless BTC fails and PPC doesn't


see this is exactly why I think PPC could do it so many people have not read in depth and thought about it.

take a proper look at the 2 billion thats purely hypothetical.....new coin generation stopped dead around the 25th of march

take a look

http://www.proofofstake.com/

(takes a while to load)


Now I am really confused, the POS is not meant to stop, Sunny intends POS to mint 1% inflation forever. If its stopped then something is wrong. Right?

nope.jpg

this is exactly why I think PPC has potential people skim the headlines but don't look at the detail....!
3358  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: PPC the one to watch on: April 25, 2013, 03:29:11 PM
why not TRC, NVC, BTE, FC, or IXC for that matter. They are in the same league with PPC, clone coins with no use.

Nope PPC is entirely different tech

Proof of stake not proof of work = massively more energy efficient.....!

all the rest are proof of work
3359  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: THE LTC effect ON BTC on: April 25, 2013, 03:26:15 PM
PPC needs to work out the checkpoint issue and also someone mentioned that POS can still be gamed.

I like the idea of PPC but there are still issues.

Also PPC can never be 1:1 with Bitcoin unless Bitcoin actually fails, because there are already more PPC than Bitcoins in existence.

yes but it appears there will be some 2 million less PPC all told...I may be wrong

2 million less? I may be mistaken but at the moment there are more PPC than BTC and PPC will continue to expand the currency supply quicker than BTC for all eternity, being as there is no upper limit for PPC*.

*There is a 2 billion upper limit but its meant to be unlimited.

That means if both PPC and BTC continue to exist BTC will always be more valuable because there will always be more PPC, unless BTC fails and PPC doesn't


see this is exactly why I think PPC could do it so many people have not read in depth and thought about it.

take a proper look at the 2 billion thats purely hypothetical.....new coin generation stopped dead around the 25th of march

take a look

http://www.proofofstake.com/

(takes a while to load)



3360  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: THE LTC effect ON BTC on: April 25, 2013, 02:48:24 PM
PPC needs to work out the checkpoint issue and also someone mentioned that POS can still be gamed.

I like the idea of PPC but there are still issues.

Also PPC can never be 1:1 with Bitcoin unless Bitcoin actually fails, because there are already more PPC than Bitcoins in existence.

yes but it appears there will be some 2 million less PPC all told...I may be wrong
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