I really have a good feeling about this, lets see what will happen |
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Ok, I see this is not going to work the way we hoped. I'm sorry not to be a native english speaker and I'm also sorry to have asked you for any financial support. We are going through a rought time right now and neither do we have the time nor any motivation to fight all your claims this would be a scam. We are no professional company and never intended to become one. We just wanted to inform you about what we are doing and hoped to get some kind of croud funding to make ASICs happen faster in your own interest. We never had any visions of making the great money with this but we attemted contributing to stabilize the Litecoin network and maybe initiate the same effect we saw at Bitcoin at the beginning of this year. Now we could start endless discussions about scam or no scam us telling you in more detail about our work and you finding loopholes in our posts to "proof" us wrong. This is not going to happen because we have way more serious problems to face than convincing some bored and paranoiac guys tending to complain about anything. There is no need to trust us and no need to help us but also no need to make fun of us. We are not going to tell you about the hardware we are using. Knowing the parts even a one handey monkey could assemble an device that hashes faster than a 7990 GPU. I could give you a blurry picture of our device that you would think is just a ugly old graphics card or a screenshot of the devide mining on a pool that could also be some standard devices mining on one worker or a screenshot of my own mining software showing you a hashrate you wouldn't believe anyway. There is no point doing so but only giving away the knowledge what we gained. We don't intend to ask for any help in engeneering because we wouldn't trust you anyway. The only thing that would help us would be money and I understood that nobody will spend even a cent to support something that is not promissed and proofed to pay out Take the risk or just forget about us. We will continue our work and keep mining until we break even with out costs an losses accured. Maybe we will consider Luckybites advice and start selling shares, maybe we will sell our design to some company for large scale production or maybe there will be some chinese ASICs for sale soon because not only our money but also our knowlegde may have been stolen. Don't be scared, we will not rush for any 51% attacks or concentrate too much hashpower on our side to endanger the trustability of the network. If you want to be supportive and do have any questions despite of "what hardware are you using?", "could you send any photos/videos?" or "is this scam?" please feel free to write an email, this is my adress for this purpose: sebastian.asic.sky@gmail.comWe are thinking about opening a FAQ thred but that depends on your questions. I hope you won't abuse my mail adress to spam it with insults. My (unpaid) vacation is over now so don't expect me to answer your mails within a minute. you are funny, looking to the fact that you are not willing to show or prove anything, but still hoping for donations, I could help you out with this advice: do a stand up comedy show, it is easy just to say what you said till now "we have some prototype..etc ...we wont prove anything..etc ..etc.. we need you to threw your money....etc ... no guarantee that you will get anything...etc ", and believe me people will laugh their asses off and may consider donating something. this seems the only legitimate way to get "help" |
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I love your charts, but i do not understand what they means most of the time, they are encrypted, it is like you can understand them the way you like .  |
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it makes me wonder why FTC was even created..... a ponzi scheme ? and the past days proved this point, most of people doesn't care about it, miners joined the network because of profitability and they will dump it as soon as profitability goes down, which leads me to a question here, some one was manipulating the price to get miners in to secure the network after the attack appeared. it seems to be all planned.
look at BTC and LTC, even if profitability is lower than ever miners still contribute to the network, it is easy to explain they believe in the concept, and they know that there is a future there.
another interesting thing on the official page of FTC, they defined it as a good way to invest your money/savings, they should never say this, this way you scam people, crypto is a payment system this is the only definition, if people decides to invest their money, it should be their own decision, you can not trick people to such a thing. instead when you go to Bitcoin official page they warn people about investing their savings.
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never got close to 51% attack read feathercoin forums plus its all fixed anyway in their new client update so people should update and read. And not post THUD lol
 LOL I remember this one, he was a legend, I forgot his name thought, in 2003 when war in Iraq was at the peak the guy show up on TV to tell that everything is under control and that there is nothing going on. good example for this situation. |
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it is ironic when I see people trying to comfort their selves about what is happening!! it is a huge problem, you are just so ignorant, or the new FTC pump made you risk everything for nothing, unbelievable !!!!
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mmitech seriously dude aint these guys making money?
they are making money the same way as miners or investors, this means if they are mining this doesn't make them better than any miner because at the hash rate they are contributing to the network their reward is the same as a regular miner contributing the same hash rate, being a Dev doest mean that he is making more LTC's than others, the source code is open and any one can review it if you do not know how things works, and even if they buy LTC from exchanges they are paying the same rate as any other trader. I am an IT engineer and I have small side projects beside my full time job as well, but there is no chance that I will be doing any developing or any other work in my supposedly free time just like that for free. with the knowledge that my work will help people make money of it, I would do the same like these guys, ask for donations, and if people wouldn't donate this means only that this bastards doesn't appreciate what I am doing, or they think that I am a loser working for them and most worst is for free. so people give them a break and threw some LTC on them, because you do realize that if they decide to stop doing it , your coins wont be worth a shit . |
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and I would like to add this, to these who complain about the hole thing, LTC is the best coin after BTC and may be the only alt who stand a chance to survive next to BTC, was released publicly without premined blocks(only 3 blocks to test and confirm the first block), you all have the chance to mine it with your GPU there is no VIP ASIC club going around like in BTC an other SHA-256 based coin, and I really believe that will have a great future, and i know that allot of people share this with me, so when i saw a 6000+ read and only few donations, it makes me think how people thinks, honestly you really think that these developers will contribute their time and energy for free so you can get rich out of it and not even consider donating at least 1 or 5 or even 10 LTC. come on you must be so stupid, and than you come here and attack them.
you have complained so log about how there is no active developers around LTC, today you've got what i believe a good team with motivation and this is how you react to it ?!!!!
you people are really ignorant !!!!!!!
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Litecoin Dev Fundraiser: 5,000 LTC Matching Donation ChallengeA big sponsor who wishes to be anonymous is willing to support the Litecoin Development Team. They are offering a challenge grant where if we receive an additional 5,000 LTC in community donations by June 18th noon GMT, the anonymous sponsor will match with an additional 5,000 LTC. These combined funds will go a long way toward enabling long-term development of the Litecoin software and related vendor integration tools. The dev team donations prior to the challenge amount to 3,059.8868 LTC at LRNYxwQsHpm2A1VhawrJQti3nUkPN7vtq3. The challenge will be complete when gross received funds at this address reach 8,059.8868 LTC. Bitcoins donated to 1KD5tt1p3mdZH8DDXeEwdsJNpiwUZCfzkF converted and deposited to the LTC address count toward the challenge. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0AnlrnfU-U6E-dFVuUnlfZUlqek9JbzlNYjVENWp3ZlE&gid=0A list of sponsors, donations, and expenses of the Litecoin development project are listed here. If you contact Warren with your txid and cryptographic signature proving ownership of the sending address, we may add your name or business name to the sponsor list, at our discretion. The 5,000 LTC matching challenge funds is currently sequestered at LXhTDTv1cwGUb67DX88xtkQriYWmTFAVyr. Cryptographic signature of the quoted string proving the matching challenge funds: G/JW/UyKeN/Uplj1EVa2gmOZBN9g4FXXvNRHCnHJAdv7rtVMDX1pmfrpyLW47LaVKj7uPAfT/hKQuoMVJwPn/b4= The identity of the anonymous sponsor will be revealed later. Note from Warren: It is technically Tuesday June 4th, 2013 11:03PM HST at my current location. =) yes I wish that you will be able to get that amount, but hey good news!! we know that some people have a shit load of LTC and they would be more than happy to see LTC go further, and 2000 LTC wont be anything for them , they wont even feel the deference. I can suggest that you PM this guy, you know the one who makes LTC astro charts for LTC, his nick name is Otoh look at this thread https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=148077.0this is his LTC address http://ltc.block-explorer.com/address/LcLJUZtRyLTs9uNqfWZijo2mFnMbdoQTfbI mean come on this guy have 598,696.25 LTC  and he recieved a total of 1,889,096 . I was shoked when i first saw this.   go ahead Pm him. |
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Have to say it for the 3000th time. Even at 150m difficulty in a year, blades still ROI in 16-20 weeks depending on batch. Remember when it was QQ Avalon B2s overpriced, then QQQQ Avalon B3s rip off?
Let us presume that the Eruptor Blade can do 12GH. Some may be able to produce slightly more but lets be conservative for the moment. They are priced in BTC, which makes it easy to identify what return is being generated by the device without involving rises or falls in exchange rate. According to http://dustcoin.com/miningAt 12.1M difficulty, a 12GH blade generates roughly .5 BTC per day. At that rate it would take 100 days to generate 50 BTC at zero growth rate in difficulty. At 150M difficulty, a 12GH blade would generate rougly 0.04 BTC per day. Assuming a constant rate of growth between 12.1M and 150M over the period of 1 year, the difficulty will adjust by roughly 2.5M every 7 days (round numbers make things easy). At 20 weeks the blade will have generated 27.06 BTC, the dificulty will be about 57million and the blade will be generating .74 BTC per week. At that difficulty growth rate, an Eruptor Blade will not pay for itself in 1 year if purchased for 50BTC. IMO, 150M in 365 days is a very aggressive estimate for the difficulty growth rate. Please let me know if I got the math wrong, I didn't use a spreadsheet, I just did back of the envelope. +1 Bottom line here is the guys with deep pockets as usual priced the little guys right out of the equation, welcome to the free market. +1 |
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I agree that they're overpriced, I just disagree with you in how you arrived at that conclusion.
ASIC Hardware (with the exception of BFL which doesn't count, because it's not something you can actually get your hands on right now), is over-priced, but only in the sense that it's unlikely to break even, or turn a decent profit at this point.
One's ability or inability to purchase a product has NOTHING to do with whether or not it's overpriced though. I can't afford to buy a 200,000 sq ft mansion, even if it's "under-priced" by market standards.
The reason these miners cost what they do is because the MARKET is willing to pay it. There are a lot of foolish people who aren't considering the return, and are focusing only on what they can afford (like yourself). What you can afford to pay, and what something's "worth" are not interchangeable terms. As long as people continue to overpay for ASIC hardware, it will continue to be overpriced, regardless of what your own individual finances look like.
If I am able to buy GPU's I should be able to buy an ASIC that suites my budget for a reasonable price. maybe a 5GH/s or a 10GH/s to replace my rig, do not forget an ASIC is good only for mining but a GPU have a resell value. I am not begging or crying about my situation and I do not need anyone to feel sorry about people in my position, we all should have an equal chance here, this is the spirit of Bitcoin, by paying a load of money for something that is not worth that kind of money you are just hurting people like me. eventually these companys care the most about money, but go ahead attack me instead of asking how much these things really cost and how much these guys are making of you, instead sitting thinking about it. |
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I am sure that you will rethink this after 2-3 weeks when your 7950's wont pay for your energy bills, actually http://allchains.info/ is showing a growth for diff.factor of 21% today,i am really curious what will this be after 3 weeks As I said, people have been predicting this for years. 2-3 weeks you can go ahead and send me a PM and I'll let you know if I've powered them down. I have nothing to hide. But let's do some quick math. I have a reliable, constant 3500MH/s with my six 7950s. If difficulty is 14,000,000, they will generate ~$490 a month. I currently pay $140/month in electricity to run them. So the difficulty will have to be 49,000,000 before they become unprofitable. Source: http://www.alloscomp.com/bitcoin/calculatorIf you are saying the difficulty is going to be 49,000,000 in 2 to 3 weeks, I think you should research difficulty jumps. It cannot rise more than a factor of 4 in a single jump. Also, you are not taking the exchange rate into account. If bitcoins rise in value, my GPUs will remain profitable even longer. If it falls a little, well, I will probably continue to mine because I believe it will rise overall in the long term. but in the other hand you could get an ASIC if they were at a reasonable price and join the club of ASIC miners, this is exactly what we are trying to say here, I work at Goodyear tires as an IT engineer, Goodyear owns Dunlop, Debica, Fulda and Sava, and we full-fill all our customer needs for price/quality and we still make a decent profit , this is how ASIC chips should be. companys could still make a huge profit with much lower prices so more miners could get the chance to join *decentralization* |
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Nothing at all in my post suggested centralization. ASICs are already in the hands of hundreds if not thousands of people. How do you figure anything close to centralization is going on right now?
Also, what is the problem with waiting a few more months until the price comes down to something he can afford?
This has nothing to do with centralization and everything to do with greed. He can't have what he wants right now, and therefore it is overpriced in his opinion.
I didīt assume you suggest centralization. But I have strong concern that this is the road weīre all on if we donīt pay close attantion to what is going on right now. As far as I know (and please correct me if Iīm wrong) Avalon was the first to ship a batch of 300 ASICs, is processing a 2nd batch right now. ASICminer kept the most hashing power in itīs own hands (not shares, actual control over what their doing) and BFL, well, we all know about BFL. One Avalon has about 65 G hashing power. Thats about 100 x a 7970 or 200 x a 7850 (e.g. of course). USB Miners could easily be ignored, they are equal to a 7850 minus the cost of power. It doesnīt matter if the first wave of Avalons will be resold for a huge profit or will be used for mining right away - the increase of difficulty will throw any of todays "mini miner" with a GPU or even a few of them under the bus - they will most likely switch to scrypt. Even when Avalon-Chips finally reach customers and more mining devices will be on the market, you have to buy a ASIC to participate in the network just to even with your power bill. This will change the network. Not everyone with a computer who is interested in the idea can join, just the ones who care enough to actually buy hardware that can be used for nothing else than mining will be there - in the long run. Thatīs centralization - plain and simple. People have been predicting the end of GPU mining for years. My 7950s are still very profitable and will stay on. You also forget to take into account exchange rate. As Bitcoins become more valuable, the length of time GPUs remain profitable is extended. And I'd guess most of us believe the price will go up over time or we wouldn't be here in the first place. And scrypt is dead at the moment. Litecoin hasn't been as profitable to mine as bitcoin for at least a week. (shhh, don't tell too many litecoiners, but check dustcoin's calculator for yourself) ASICs will inevitably come down in price. When they do, I think all these worries will be moot. I am sure that you will rethink this after 2-3 weeks when your 7950's wont pay for your energy bills, actually http://allchains.info/ is showing a growth for diff.factor of 21% today,i am really curious what will this be after 3 weeks |
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Really ! you still insist that they are worth that money ? allot of people here would agree on my point, only some owners of an ASIC are defending their position !!! It is not only about me not able to afford one, you are really ignoring allot of facts here.
You are rehashing the same stuff now. As I said, a widget is worth what the market will pay. Right now, people are happy to pay 49.99 for a blade that will be profitable in 6 months or less. It's hard to argue something is not worth what something is selling for like hotcakes, but you are attempting to do so. Good luck. I disagree. and I do respect your point of view, but this doesn't make it right. |
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I gotta disagree, it's over priced to make the few (manufacturers) a profit based on all the earnings possible until the point at which they believe real competition is likely to enter, not based on manufacturing costs and reasonable profit. This is centralisation.
+1 this is my hole point thank you for expressing it |
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$1,500.00 for 68 Gh/s
should've had faith in Yifu
should be an early adopter, I didnt even know what Bitcoin was when AVALON was taking orders. |
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I really don't understand the complaint. I can't afford a Ferrari or a Lamborghini, but I don't whine about it on a public message board.
If your concern was really about securing the network (as opposed to profit), you would just buy some ASIC Miner shares at an amount you could afford, or even some of the escrowed group buys that people on the forum have been advertising. Then your money is going toward increased hashing. I suspect you just want to make a ton of money though, and are bitter that you can't afford to buy an ASIC of your own. Am I right?
Sorry to "intrude" but IMHO your missing the point. The network didnīt grow and prosper because of a few "investors" with enough money to take over a considerable amount of combined hashing power. As far as I know, one of the core principles of Bitcoin is the ability of as many participants as possible - the more the merrier. No trust issues because of the big big numbers of participants. The chance to earn new coins now and to earn from fees later. No centralized control. No centralized power over the currency. When participating with CPU - no problem. Anyone with a computer could participate without considerable cost. When participating with GPU - no problem. Anyone with a newer computer could participate without considerable cost. ASICs are not only a completely new game, itīs completely new sport. When buying shares from whoever, there is nevertheless a centralized huge hashing power beyond the control of many. When buying ASICs now because of deep pockets of a few and profiting huge in the coming few month and "reinvesting" that money after massiv increase of difficulty bears the risk of centralizing instead of decentralizing. A lot of people (and I assume the creators of Bitcoins) wanted a currency that depends NOT on the decisions of a few. You can call this "few" government, feds, Bundesbank or Oligipoly of rich ASIC "investors". Bitcoin is more than a network, more than a way to print your own money and more than a kindergarden of tech-freaks. If the community doesnīt respect the principles, Bitcoin will go down the road of any actual currency. I don't want a "FED" consisting of a handful of miners with hashing power no one with a computer can do anything about. I trust a network build of thousands of family men with a computer a lot more than a network of elite ASICs. No offense - just my two cents. Nothing at all in my post suggested centralization. Also, what is the problem with waiting a few more months until the price comes down to something he can afford? This has nothing to do with centralization and everything to do with greed. He can't have what he wants right now, and therefore it is overpriced in his opinion. Really ! you still insist that they are worth that money ? allot of people here would agree on my point, only some owners of an ASIC are defending their position !!! It is not only about me not able to afford one, you are really ignoring allot of facts here. |
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I really don't understand the complaint. I can't afford a Ferrari or a Lamborghini, but I don't whine about it on a public message board.
If your concern was really about securing the network (as opposed to profit), you would just buy some ASIC Miner shares at an amount you could afford, or even some of the escrowed group buys that people on the forum have been advertising. Then your money is going toward increased hashing. I suspect you just want to make a ton of money though, and are bitter that you can't afford to buy an ASIC of your own. Am I right?
Sorry to "intrude" but IMHO your missing the point. The network didnīt grow and prosper because of a few "investors" with enough money to take over a considerable amount of combined hashing power. As far as I know, one of the core principles of Bitcoin is the ability of as many participants as possible - the more the merrier. No trust issues because of the big big numbers of participants. The chance to earn new coins now and to earn from fees later. No centralized control. No centralized power over the currency. When participating with CPU - no problem. Anyone with a computer could participate without considerable cost. When participating with GPU - no problem. Anyone with a newer computer could participate without considerable cost. ASICs are not only a completely new game, itīs completely new sport. When buying shares from whoever, there is nevertheless a centralized huge hashing power beyond the control of many. When buying ASICs now because of deep pockets of a few and profiting huge in the coming few month and "reinvesting" that money after massiv increase of difficulty bears the risk of centralizing instead of decentralizing. A lot of people (and I assume the creators of Bitcoins) wanted a currency that depends NOT on the decisions of a few. You can call this "few" government, feds, Bundesbank or Oligipoly of rich ASIC "investors". Bitcoin is more than a network, more than a way to print your own money and more than a kindergarden of tech-freaks. If the community doesnīt respect the principles, Bitcoin will go down the road of any actual currency. I don't want a "FED" consisting of a handful of miners with hashing power no one with a computer can do anything about. I trust a network build of thousands of family men with a computer a lot more than a network of elite ASICs. No offense - just my two cents. +1 |
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By saying that you don't have the money to join the "club", but also saying you'd like to mine and earn to support your family, means that you need to mine and put all your coins back into mining and scale up - eventually you'd be able to afford more powerful hardware. For many of the people in the "club", that is exactly how it was done.
Why would you not invest the money if you had it? I'm not sure how you can complain about others being able to afford it, say that you want to mine to help your family with the profits, but also say that you wouldn't invest to do it even if you could. Huh? What exactly is this all about then? I see that allot of people are missing the point here or just ignoring it, lets say that I am buying a ATI 7950 cards and you are selling each for 1500 $ and you are the only one that have it on stock, I wont buy it even if had the money and even if there is some one out there willing to pay that price, this doesn't mean that the 7950 costs that much, it only means that you are using your position to make a shit load of profit on customers needs. this what I cant get , this is the hole point that you are all missing these prototypes are over priced , we could all have one if they just sold them for their real value |
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I cant afford a Ferrari as well, but I have allot of alternatives which suite my budget ... and I do not have the 9000 $ to join your club
So don't drop $9k then. You can get an AMD 7950 for ~$300 to get your feet wet. ... an alternative to suit your budget. this is what I am doing now, but think about 2-3 weeks from now, I wont be able to mine with my GPU. and I cant get an ASIC as well, only few people have that blessing. it is nothing personal thought, I am thinking out loud, and I believe that allot of people are doing the same. |
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