Could someone answer my question above?  So could you buy shift at 1 cent at bittrex when it first showed up at bittrex?  Or was the price already higher?  Someone said there was no ico for shift so that means how were you able to get shift?  Was it bittrex?


And does that mean if you bought shift at 1 cent... you basically would have already 150x your coin?  Thus had you invested 100 dollars, it would be over 15000 now... 1000 dollars would be over 150000, 10000 dollars would be 1.5 million now?  Can someone confirm this?


Because if this is true, isn't buying coins that are like under 1 dollar but most importantly like under 10 cents can make you lot of money?  Thus if you find any coin that is 5 cents or less and it booms, that seem like lot of money here.

The issue here is most altcoins are not traded against USDT. 


So how would you lock in profits like with lisk in my examples.

I posted this and it relates to shift and like opinion.


Hey all.  Can someone tell me what coin where if you bought say $100 or $1000 worth would be worth 1 million dollars with real examples?


For example what im curious about are those coins that are not only under 1 dollar... but coins that are like under 10 cents or even less than 1 cent.  


For example, i took a look at shift.  That coin showed that it started out as 1 cent.  Can someone confirm here you could have bought this coin at 1 cent at bittrex etc?  Because its over 1.45 right now.  So had you invested say 100 dollars on shift... which would have gotten you 10000 shift... now you have 14500?  Thus 1000 usd worth would be worth 145000 now?  Because this coin basically 100x with more room to grow right?


Now what about those coins that are 1/10th of a cent or 1/100th of a cent.  Can someone tell me any coin that started out where you could get it at bittrex for example where the price was 0.001 or 0.0001?  Then the coin go to 1 dollar or more?  Because in the first example... 100 dollars in that 0.001 coin if it turned to 1 dollar would mean 100000... Thus if a coin is say 0.0001, thus 1/100 of one cent...100 dollars would mean 1 million right?  Can coins that low be bought or got now?  It was back then right?  Or can coin prices this low can only be bought through ICO etc.


Can someone name me coins that started out at 1 cent or less and now that are like at least 1 dollar?  Because i checked coinmarketcap and coins like NEM and gamecredits started out as 0.0001 etc.  However i check the volume seem to be very low.  So back then could people buy like 1 million or 10 million of NEM and gamecredits when it was 0.0001 prices?  Thus any coin that shows the history of the entire price at the beginning where it was 0.01 or 0.001 or 0.0001 meant you could have gotten these coins at these prices?  Now how easy/hard would it be to buy those coins back then?  I know bitcoin back then you could not get it that easily as it is now.  But were altcoins pretty hard to get?  How did you get them?  Was it through ico or exchange?  Did bittrex even existed back then?  What exchanges back then when NEM and gamecredits were like 0.01 or 0.001 or 0.0001 was it possible to get it?  I assume those werent listed on bittrex until later?  Then how could someone get it?  And most importantly were there nem and gamecredit wallets like how there are bitcoin and litecoin wallets now?

Hey all.  Can someone tell me what coin where if you bought say $100 or $1000 worth would be worth 1 million dollars with real examples?


For example what im curious about are those coins that are not only under 1 dollar... but coins that are like under 10 cents or even less than 1 cent. 


For example, i took a look at shift.  That coin showed that it started out as 1 cent.  Can someone confirm here you could have bought this coin at 1 cent at bittrex etc?  Because its over 1.45 right now.  So had you invested say 100 dollars on shift... which would have gotten you 10000 shift... now you have 14500?  Thus 1000 usd worth would be worth 145000 now?  Because this coin basically 100x with more room to grow right?


Now what about those coins that are 1/10th of a cent or 1/100th of a cent.  Can someone tell me any coin that started out where you could get it at bittrex for example where the price was 0.001 or 0.0001?  Then the coin go to 1 dollar or more?  Because in the first example... 100 dollars in that 0.001 coin if it turned to 1 dollar would mean 100000... Thus if a coin is say 0.0001, thus 1/100 of one cent...100 dollars would mean 1 million right?  Can coins that low be bought or got now?  It was back then right?  Or can coin prices this low can only be bought through ICO etc.


Can someone name me coins that started out at 1 cent or less and now that are like at least 1 dollar?  Because i checked coinmarketcap and coins like NEM and gamecredits started out as 0.0001 etc.  However i check the volume seem to be very low.  So back then could people buy like 1 million or 10 million of NEM and gamecredits when it was 0.0001 prices?  Thus any coin that shows the history of the entire price at the beginning where it was 0.01 or 0.001 or 0.0001 meant you could have gotten these coins at these prices?  Now how easy/hard would it be to buy those coins back then?  I know bitcoin back then you could not get it that easily as it is now.  But were altcoins pretty hard to get?  How did you get them?  Was it through ico or exchange?  Did bittrex even existed back then?  What exchanges back then when NEM and gamecredits were like 0.01 or 0.001 or 0.0001 was it possible to get it?  I assume those werent listed on bittrex until later?  Then how could someone get it?  And most importantly were there nem and gamecredit wallets like how there are bitcoin and litecoin wallets now?

I get what you mean as the rest stay invested.  However what if you want to continually take money/profits out then?  Because if someone is daytrading full time, they are suppose just make profit and not cash out or something?  Or cashout once every few months etc? 


Well im sure there are daytraders that make profit and want to take out money again over and over right?

Well it should be worth more.  But you want to have money coming into your bank account, well you can't just hold.  Thus i mean for someone to cash out consistent profits.  So if thats the case, isn't usd more important? 

I mean 20 percent profit on investing in lisk.  Thus buying lisk at 5 dollars and planning to sell it at 6 dollars.  Well when you daytrade alts, are almost all trading wanting to make btc profit as oppose to usd profit?  I can understand btc because if you have more than you started with, thats good because btc will only go up etc.


Well based on what others talk about here... it would seem like even if someone buys lisk at 5 dollars and lets just say they sell it at 3.50.  So that would be a loss.  However let say btc when lisk was 5 dollars was 5000.  When lisk is 3.50... btc went all the way down to 2000 usd.  Thus btc price went down even more than lisk in terms of percentage.  Some poster said... here this is good because you have more btc than you started with.  I understand you now have more btc but you have less usd.  Shouldnt usd be king here?



So which scenario do daytraders prefer?


Buy lisk at 5 dollars and buy 1000 shares for 5000 usd or 0.0007 btc per lisk.  BTC is at 5000 usd.  Lisk goes up to 10 dollars.  BTC goes up to 15000 usd.


Or


But lisk at 5 dollars and buy 1000 shares for 5000 usd or 0.0007 btc per lisk.  BTC is at 5000 usd.  Lisk goes down to 3.50.  BTC goes all the way down to 2000 usd.



So in this example, you made profit on lisk but lose btc when you sell the lisk for btc because btc went up 3x whereas your lisk only 2x.



In the second example, you lose profit on lisk when you sell it for btc because it dropped from 5 dollars to 3.50.   Lisk dropped 30 percent.  BTC however dropped 60 percent.  So when you sell your lisk for btc... you are getting back more btc than you started with.  That is what you say is the goal of daytrading right... get more btc than you started with?



So which situation does a daytrader like here?  Because my thoughts are well in the 1st example, the guy made around 5000 usd profit.  But he lost btc in the process when selling lisk for btc.


In the 2nd example, the guy lose 1500 usd profit right?  However... here he gained btc in the process when selling lisk for btc since btc dropped 60 percent. 

You mean when looking at the btc or altcoin price?  Or the altcoin price in btc?  When you did daytrade, did you do bitcoin or altcoin or both?  And can you tell me what is more important here?  Is it usd profit/loss or btc profit/loss.  And in my 2 examples, which would you has a daytrader prefer.  Because i always thought when you sell your altcoin back for btc... the most important thing is usd.  Thus if you get back 5k usd more than you started with, thats a profit.

If you receive less btc than you start with, you consider that a loss.  But when you calculate capital gains and losses, well that is certainly a gain right?  I can't imagine you say you had a loss here because you receive less btc but btc went down etc. 

Wait... so you telling me if lisk goes from 5 dollar to 3.50 when you sell it when btc goes from 5k to 2k... that is not a profitable trade?  Well usd wise, that is absolutely a loss.  But with many of you mentioning getting more btc than you started with is more important... then how is this not profitable because you would end up with 0.75 more btc because btc dropped higher percentage than lisk?

I understand the potential part.


Well when i say invest 5000 usd... i mean thats one trade.  You could have 25k or 50k etc but you use 5000 for 1 coin such as lisk at 5 dollars etc.  Then you try to grow your account balance etc.  Such that imagine someone starts with 5000 and then grows it to 10k, then 20k etc.  Well actually i meant you have a bankroll for trading.  But you already have money in your bank that pays for expenses.   So even though you want to have profit to cash out, you still can pay off stuff with money you already have in the bank etc. 

Okay but thats because you dont plan to cash out till much later right?  If you had to cash out for bills and everything, which you choose?

But for someone who daytrades, which situation do they want?  1 or 2?  The thing is i still can't understand anyone wanting 2 more than 1 because in the first example, you made money and can cashout to bank account.  Once you cash it out or send it to bittrex, you essentially locked in your profits right?

But when you are calculating gains or losses, in the 2nd example you have a 1500 dollar loss.  In the 1st example, you gainded 5000 dollars.  So i really dont know why people would choose the other one. 

I am planning to use bittrex to trade altcoins.  I would first get bitcoin first as i need btc to buy altcoins.

So i have a question on this and want to know if im doing it right.

Let say I have $10000 in btc. 

Btc = 7837.34 usd now

1.28 btc = 10000 usd


I send that 1.28 btc to bittrex.  Lets just make it simple and say i want to buy lisk and its worth $5.  I know its much more than that now but i like to make it simple.  Let say i want to buy 1000 lisk so $5000 plus fees.  I know bittrex fees are 0.25%.  So that means buying 1000 lisk would cost me $5000 + $12.50 = $5012.50.  This is correct right?  So basically now my bittrex btc balance is around half which is 0.64 btc?  To make it simple i ignored the sending btc fee to bittrex.


So let say my goal is to sell it once i make 20 percent profit.  Thus i want to sell it once lisk hits 6 dollars.  Say lisk hits 6 dollars.  I then sell all of it for $6000 - $15 = $5985.  So in this situation I made $5985 - $5012.50 = $972.50.  Is that correct or not? 


So once I sell the lisk on bittrex, I'm getting back btc right since lisk is paired with btc and most altcoins are not paired with usd or usdt as they put it?  So here is what confuses me.  At that moment i will get paid whatever amount btc = $5985 right?  However... isn't it a good chance that i might not get more than 0.64 btc that i originally used to buy lisk assuming btc price went up as well?  Like for example at that moment i bought lisk with my btc...  $5012.50 is about 0.64 btc at that moment.  But now... when i trade $5985 worth of lisk for btc... couldn't i get even less than 0.64 btc?  Thus even though i made a profit of $972.50 in my example buying lisk and then selling lisk... i might get back 0.60 btc only and now my btc balance is only 0.64 btc +0.60 btc = 1.24 btc?  Or is there something wrong with what im calculating here?  I do know when you are investing in altcoins, you are basically betting against bitcoin.  But here in my example, well you need btc in order to buy altcoins almost all the time since theres maybe 10 coins that are paired against usd or usdt?


And if my calculation is wrong, can someone tell me where is my calculation wrong?


Because i believe the profit i calculated is right here.  And if it is right, how do i make sure to lock in these profits?  I know you realized $972.50 in profit here.  But say you dont sell the $972.50 worth of btc now... and wait... well btc price drops... that $972.50 profit could only be $800 or less etc right?  Or is my logic wrong here?  I want to know from daytraders on this as i know daytraders mostly buy low and sell high and make lot of these transactions.  Thus if your goal for lisk is 20 percent profit of 5000 dollars invested and your goal is to make about 1000 dollars on buying lisk minus the buy/sell fees of 27.50 for a total profit of $972.50... are you suppose to immediately send that exact profit $972.50 worth of btc OR WOULD IT BE THE BTC DIFFERENCE between the 1.28 btc you started with and what you have now... and then send it immediately to gdax or gemini and sell it to them and then you lock that $972.50 in profit immediately to your bank account?


The thing is if everything was paired with USD, then it would be very easy to calculate/profits and losses.  I know bittrex has usdt but that is only paired with btc and not many other coins.  So the other thing is would daytraders instead of sending it to gdax or gemini... they immediately turn that btc into USDT?  That way their profits are locked since you have usdt?  I know usdt is around 1 dollar but it cannot be a little less or more.  But i read its still an altcoin.  So i want to know exactly how daytraders lock in their profit after they lock in their profit from one coin.  And most importantly, is it even possible to have a lesser btc balance after buying lisk at 5 dollars and selling it at 6 dollars depending on the btc price.  Because this is very confusing to me.

Hi there yes its hard for btc to 5x short term.

Yes i meant as a sole way of generating income.  Thus having profits into bank.  So in my example, then doing what i said would be fine?  Thus cashing it out for btc and then immediately sending it to gdax/gemini or even use bittrex for usdt and cash out to bank?

In the 1st example i used, you say sell your lisk for USDT.  You cannot sell lisk for USDT.  Almost all the altcoins besides the main ones you cannot sell for USDT.  You need to sell it for btc first.  So you have to go through btc.  So i assume you mean when you sell it for btc... immediately sell it for usdt on bittrex or send that btc immediately to gdax/gemini to cash out to usd?

In the 2nd example, yes there is 0.75 BTC profit.  The issue here is you are losing USD.  Because when you calculate the capital gain or loss, this is a loss.  How would this be good if you know what i mean?

So here yes you lose usd but you gain BTC.

But in these 2 examples i gave you, which one would a daytrader want... example 1 or 2?  I cant imagine its 2 because 2 would be a 1500 usd loss... example 2 would be a 5000 usd gain.

I get what you mean here with that example.  So profit and not btc is what traders look at.  But are there traders that look for profit?


Well i think it would be hard to find coins that will 3x, 5x and 10x against btc.  If btc is going up, then i have to find a coin that does better against it.  So that means i need not only that coin to go up, but perform a lot better than btc.


Well if you never take money out... then where do you get your profit?  Where do daytraders get profit then?  Because i thought daytraders goal are to make profit and thus cashing out few times for 1-2k for example would be pretty good if they could buy the lows and sell the highs etc.  I thought daytraders want to make a few hundred here, a few thousand here etc.



So which scenario do daytraders prefer?


Buy lisk at 5 dollars and buy 1000 shares for 5000 usd or 0.0007 btc per lisk.  BTC is at 5000 usd.  Lisk goes up to 10 dollars.  BTC goes up to 15000 usd.


Or


But lisk at 5 dollars and buy 1000 shares for 5000 usd or 0.0007 btc per lisk.  BTC is at 5000 usd.  Lisk goes down to 3.50.  BTC goes all the way down to 2000 usd.



So in this example, you made profit on lisk but lose btc when you sell the lisk for btc because btc went up 3x whereas your lisk only 2x.



In the second example, you lose profit on lisk when you sell it for btc because it dropped from 5 dollars to 3.50.   Lisk dropped 30 percent.  BTC however dropped 60 percent.  So when you sell your lisk for btc... you are getting back more btc than you started with.  That is what you say is the goal of daytrading right... get more btc than you started with?



So which situation does a daytrader like here?  Because my thoughts are well in the 1st example, the guy made around 5000 usd profit.  But he lost btc in the process when selling lisk for btc.


In the 2nd example, the guy lose 1500 usd profit right?  However... here he gained btc in the process when selling lisk for btc since btc dropped 60 percent. 

Yes my thinking is it would be hard for the altcoin to outrun btc because btc keeps going up.  And the thing is you want to sell lisk at a higher percentage than btc goes up right?  So you are fine with altcoin going from 5 dollars to 3.50 after you buy it if btc goes from 5k to 2500?   I would assume the dream scenario when you buy altcoins would be you buy an altcoin it goes up very much... and bitcoin drops all the way down?


So let me ask another thing.  Say you buy an altcoin that cost 10 cents.  Let say you believe this coin will 10x.  But when you buy it... then eventually the coin goes up 10x so it goes from 10 cents to 1 dollar.  But say btc when you first bought the altcoin cost 5k.  That coin went up to 50k when you are getting read to sell.  Here.. you would not be gaining any btc since that altcoin and btc went up the same rate right?  However... you are still clearly making profit here?  I just want to make sure of this.  Because in this example ... say you bought 10000 shares of an altcoin at 10 cent for 1000 usd.  Here you gained around 9000 usd less fees right?  But you gained zero btc in the process.  I dont find any issue with this because in this example, wouldnt you just cash out that 9k in profit worth of btc into usd and there is your profit?  


Also is there a reason why no one talks about this on the altcoin discussion forum?  Everyone wants to know the next coin that will 3x, 5x, 10x, 50x, 100x.  Because based on the statements being made, whats the point of finding a coin that will 3x if btc 3x as well?  To me, it would mean profit because the coin 3x.  But to others... it would mean no btc profit.  Why is that a big deal when you should be looking at money that you convert to usd cashed into the bank account.   So basically if you are daytrading altcoins or holding altcoins, you should be getting rid of all your btc then?  Because if you want altcoins to go up... btc will need to go down.  So are you suppose to only choose one?  Because if i invest in lisk... well i want lisk to increase in price.  However, the amount of money im investing in lisk is not as much as i have in btc.  And obviously i dont want lisk to go up a bit... but btc goes down a lot more.  Or even if they go up or down the same percentage... well i lose money because i have much more btc than i would in lisk.   So do you have any opinions of this as well?  My thoughts were if i were to buy altcoins... i want btc to go up ... i want altcoins to go up.

If you only think btc, does that mean usd price is not relevant at all then?  Because that doesn't make sense.  For example if lisk is 5 dollars.  What is my purpose of buying lisk?  Not the fact that i think it would go up.. but the fact that it should go higher than btc in terms of percentage?  So if someone wants to bet on altcoins but want nothing to do with btc, they cannot do this?


When you are daytrading stocks, though i never done this, the purpose is to sell at higher price than you buy because you are looking at profit.  So with altcoins if you buy lisk at 5 dollars... say you buy 1000 of it.  Let say after a while lisk drops to 3.50.  But during this time, bitcoin goes from 5k all the way down to 2500.  So in this example, your coin dropped down in price by 30 percent.  Btc dropped down in price in 50 percent.  So are you happy to sell your lisk for btc now that lisk goes from 5 to 3.50 and bitcoin goes from 5k to 2500?  Because you will be getting back more btc than you bought lisk with.  However... is this a gain or loss?  In terms of usd profit/loss, this is 100 percent a loss.  But in terms of btc... this is a gain.  So traders would rather have a situation like this as oppose to lisk going from 5 dollars to 6 dollars and you buy/sell 1000 shares and btc going up from 5000 to 6500?


Because at the end, you are getting profit.  In the first example, is that recorded as a profit or loss such as capital gain or loss.  Because i have to assume the first example is a capital loss even though you made btc in that example. 

Can someone here reply to my thread about calculating altcoin profits?

Can any daytrader reply to this?

Any traders or people who just make a few trades here can tell me if they received this and if so from which site?

Is there a way to claim bitcoin gold yet if you use electrum?