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3521  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Ukraine gold sent to America on: April 12, 2014, 03:05:49 PM
Regards to Russia, I would not send gold or anything else there because of the corruption and how closed things are. I am not talking abount the people, but people high up. Russia have a "closed" democracy that not allows who ever party to go to elections. If you look on how rich a small part of the people are compared to the average for me its looks like the system is designed to enrich a small portion of the population.
The same is correct for any "liberal" society, without exceptions. USA, Germany, France, et cetera they are all imitative democracy states. Money always wins here.

Onar, after my last reply to you I was sitting thinking which country I would send gold too if I had to evacuate it from Ukraine and actually had authority to do so. I came up short.

By transporting the gold out of country, the government have control of it no matter what happens. Maybe aGermany would be better?

The question is, which government?  Tongue
3522  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Donetsk, Kharkov, Lugansk - way to Russia. on: April 12, 2014, 02:30:07 PM
Let's see how the West reacts to Russia's diplomatic move:

Russia sets 4 conditions in return for aid to Ukraine
http://rt.com/news/ukraine-should-recognize-crimea-068/

No politics in space: ISS example of what Russia, US can achieve working together
http://rt.com/news/russia-us-space-friends-008/

Quote
“I think, actually, the International Space Station is still an example of what our nations can accomplish when they work together,” Michael Hopkins said.

“We, on our part, are planning to go to Huston in June… because it’s very important for the propaganda of our joint scientific space program; in order to tell the people about the outstanding project, which is the International Space Station,” Oleg Kotov said.

According to Kotov, his colleagues and he have warm relations not only with Hopkins, but many NASA astronauts.

Can't we have the same on Earth, please? Smiley
3523  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Ukraine gold sent to America on: April 12, 2014, 02:22:27 PM
Regards to stability and its power US is the best place to send a country gold. If you sends it to a neighbour country that might be under russian influece somehow, the chance is bigger to never see the gold.

I can't believe this BS. It has been almost 70 years since the US stole Germany's gold reserves and they are yet to give that back. And adding to that the US debt now exceeds $17 trillion. I'd say that US is the worst place to send the gold reserves right now.

Agreed. As ironical as it may sound, Ukraine would have had better chance of having its gold back if they sent it for safekeeping to Russia.  Tongue
3524  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Russian Parliament May Charge Gorbachev With “Treason” For Breaking Up USSR on: April 12, 2014, 02:18:30 PM
Reform in 1947 achieved its goal, actually...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hE2B-XJioI

Financial system was restored and worked until dissolution of the USSR. This shows how great was the difference between the real goals of the reforms in 1991, and stated goals.


Not entirely. There was that bloody reform of 1961.
http://www.opoccuu.com/r1961.htm
3525  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Ukraine gold sent to America on: April 12, 2014, 01:34:36 PM
Lookin on history, russia is a wolf. When Sovjet get formed millions died, millions have died in the russian wars. Know with a new leader Russia is starting to look out of its own boarders. To be a neighbour country to Russia would scare the hell out of me If I was a leader (not under russia hands). If I were them I would send all my gold to a neutral country that shown international stability during any event the 150 last years. US have not have a war in the country, only pearl harbour bombing. Regards to stability and its power US is the best place to send a country gold. If you sends it to a neighbour country that might be under russian influece somehow, the chance is bigger to never see the gold.

If more parts in Ukraine becomes a fedaration of Russia, I rather keep the Ukrainian gold reserve a other place. This if something happens, then "Ukraine" has resources that backs up the people elected goverment if they go in exile, if a intervention are started.

What is strange I think, is that a russian speaking minority are so rude that they want to rip a country to pieces just because they talk russian and are from or born by russians. Regardless of historical border lines. in the 21 century we can not look on history and do claims from that, there will be wars over and over again because everybody is entitled to their history. And never be peace and social growth. If they love Russia so move to the promised land russia.
Such beheavior just encourage other countries not to help  people needing it into their countries to help, because later they will have independence, in 10, in 50 or 100 years....and civil war arises.

Norway for example could go to war to Sweden and claim the land their lost for hundreds a year of. Norway with is echonomy could build a military that Sweden could dream off. Also Norway could got to war towards Denmarkbecause historically it was Norwegian. What about claiming Iceland also, it was Norwegian also during the Viking area. There is plenty of reasons to claim land for any country if looking historical on it.

Just my thoughts...

Russia has a great interest in having a destabilised country for a neighbour, for just long enough to take advantage of the destabilisation to take over the country.

That logic fails. By taking a destabilised state and incorporating it into your own country, you take all the instability, which would undermine your country from within. Russia is interested in a neutral, stable buffer state. That's one of the reasons Russia was subsidising gas and giving grants (not loans) to Ukraine. This is also the reason why Russia now pushes for constitutional reforms so that Ukraine becomes a federation, which should keep the interests of both Eastern and Western regions in balance. And Russia is prepared to give financial help to Ukraine (again) once a legitimate government is formed.

Since when of 60-80 percent of a population constituted a minority?
You appear to have absorbed too much to the Western media propaganda. Sigh.
You know that when Soviet Union was formed, millions of Russians died too, right?

You parallel to Norway is not applicable as those territories that Norway could historically lay claim to are not populated by Norwegians and have no local support for secession to Norway. Though the relation between Norwegians and Swedes reminds to some degree relation between Russians and Ukrainians. Smiley

The situation can be better compared to Ireland and Northern Ireland.

I'll let others respond to your other statements.
3526  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Ukraine gold sent to America on: April 12, 2014, 01:20:28 PM
Well not true at all... Destabilize one country and that it is a USA way for decades now.

With one important, I would say, vital, difference: The US destabilises countries not on its borders, but on somebody else's borders.
3527  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Russian Parliament May Charge Gorbachev With “Treason” For Breaking Up USSR on: April 12, 2014, 01:15:57 PM
Many people are triying to sympathize Gorbachev, but it's a result of ignorance. Just read something about his confiscatory reforms and you will understand why he should be imprisoned. These "reforms" can only be described as an economical crime.

For example:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFzma3Rr8Q8

Maybe, somebody will describe contents of this video.

By the way, something similar now happening in the Ukraine... SCSE,  crazy inflation rate and the upcoming financial reform.

As promised:

Quote
What are the monetary reforms for? So as to repair a country's financial system, that was disrupted by some events. Most often a country's financial system is disrupted by war. Post-war monetary reforms is a normal event, applicable not only to Russia. What is a monetary reform? It is either the introduction of a new monetary unit or a change of its size. There are two types of monetary reforms: Compensatory and Confiscationary. The most representative example of the confiscationary monetary reform, is the reform of 1991. To reiterate, "confiscationary" means that part of the monetary volume is removed from the circulation - confiscation of that money.

That was the main goal of monetary reform of 1991. Why? Because by that time the monetary system of the Soviet Union was practically completely destroyed. People amassed significant amounts of money, while the shelves of the shops were empty. A card distribution system was introduced for sausages, butter, and, even, vodka. Previously the card system was used only during The War and was cancelled together with the monetary reform of 1947. How could it happen that the financial system was destroyed without a war, even though the Afghan war should not be written off? The answer is simple. In 1973, thanks to Gadaffi, there was an oil crisis and oil prices skyrocketed to all time highs. Soviet Union got hooked on the oil drug needle. In 1985 the oil prices collapsed, and together with the oil prices, the economy of the Soviet Union collapsed as well. And after that, the Soviet Union itself.

One way or another, on the 22nd of January 1991, late in the evening, there appears a publication of the Presidential Decree by the President of the USSR, Mihail Gorbachev, announcing a monetary reform. It cooked down to removal from circulation of the largest for that time monetary bank notes, valuing 50 and 100 roubles. The citize4ns get a chance of exchanging these bank notes into smaller-denominated bank notes, but not exceeding the total sum of 1000 roubles per person, and only within 3 days, 23th-25th of January 1991. The information about exchange of the notes is written down in the person's passport. If you accumulated 5000 roubles, say to buy a car, you would get exchanged 1000 roubles, while the remaining 4000 were lost. Tough luck. By this means the Ministry of Finance tries to remove from the circulation 81 billion roubles. As the result, they managed to confiscate "only" 14 billion roubles. The reform was a failure. Why? It looks like those who had the most money knew about the reform beforehand and were prepared. Some found other loopholes. The decree was published in the evening, while it came into power only by next morning. They had the whole night. One could hail a taxi with a driver who hadn't yet heard about the reform, and ask him to exchange a 100 rouble note. One could send to oneself or to the relatives large sums of money via Postal money transfer from post offices in the railway stations, where those post offices were open almost 24 hours. One could buy 10 tickets for a train ride Moscow - Vladivostock, and return them on the next day. And so on. (From translator: Oh bugger. One could, if Bitcoin existed then, also convert roubles to BTC, and then back again. Is that why BTC is frowned upon in Russia? To make reforms easier.) The night from 22nd to the 23rd of January 1991 was a very restless one.

The reform didn't reach its goal, but had exceptionally negative repercussions. Firstly, the trust in the government was undermined. After all, only a few days before the reform there were statements from high-ranking officials, that there will be no reform (From translator: the same situation as during the reform of 1947 and especially 1961). 12 days before the presidential decree, the minister of finances, Valentin Pavlov assures everyone that there will be no reform, and he does so during the meeting of the Supreme Council of USSR. "What are you talking about", he said, "a reform needs at least two years of preparation".

Valentin Pavlov is probably the most unpopular finance minister in the history of Russia. He was born in 1937, had a big bureaucratic career, after school, financial university, after the the Kalinin regional executive office in Moscow, Ministry of Finances of Russian Soviet Federative Socialist Republic (RSFSR),  Ministry of Finances of USSR, state planning office, again MinFin of USSR, State committee of Price Creation, again MinFin of USSR (as the minister), and then Prime Minister of USSR. Finally GKCHP (coup government), and Matrosskaja Tishina (prison).

Secondly, as the confiscation of money failed, a new step towards normalisation of the financial system was undertaken, which was even less popular among the populace. Already two months after the reform the prices for all good were abruptly increased - tripling on average. And the age of inflation of the 1990s had started.
3528  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Ukraine gold sent to America on: April 12, 2014, 12:10:40 PM
Russia has a great interest in having a destabilised country for a neighbour, for just long enough to take advantage of the destabilisation to take over the country.

That logic fails. By taking a destabilised state and incorporating it into your own country, you take all the instability, which would undermine your country from within. Russia is interested in a neutral, stable buffer state. That's one of the reasons Russia was subsidising gas and giving grants (not loans) to Ukraine. This is also the reason why Russia now pushes for constitutional reforms so that Ukraine becomes a federation, which should keep the interests of both Eastern and Western regions in balance. And Russia is prepared to give financial help to Ukraine (again) once a legitimate government is formed.
3529  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Ukraine gold sent to America on: April 12, 2014, 11:35:41 AM
Considering Russia did occupied Hungary after WW2 and build ( well rebuild it ), started projects like underground transport system, and other projects I still think Russia has a big influence there and would get gold or at least some part of it....

There is one big difference. Russia would have gotten the gold out of Hungary to return it to Ukrainian vaults as Russia has no interest in having a destabilised country for it's neighbour. With the gold  looted to US, it's gone from Ukrainian vaults for good.
3530  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Russian Parliament May Charge Gorbachev With “Treason” For Breaking Up USSR on: April 12, 2014, 11:19:21 AM
Many people are triying to sympathize Gorbachev, but it's a result of ignorance. Just read something about his confiscatory reforms and you will understand why he should be imprisoned. These "reforms" can only be described as an economical crime.

For example:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFzma3Rr8Q8

Maybe, somebody will describe contents of this video.

By the way, something similar now happening in the Ukraine... SCSE,  crazy inflation rate and the upcoming financial reform.

It's pretty short. I'll write an English transcript.
As for the monetary reform of 1991, yes, I remember it to be a pretty painful affair, with many families (our including) losing large portions of their life's savings.
3531  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine... Revolution. on: April 12, 2014, 11:02:38 AM
Last I checked Norway didn't live under Shariat. Though with the number of "refugees", it's only a matter of time.
3532  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Ukraine gold sent to America on: April 12, 2014, 10:52:51 AM
While on the topic of gold. Last I read, there are some priceless Scythian gold artefacts sitting in Holland they were on loan for a special exhibition, organised shortly before the unrest turned violent, with items coming from 4 Crimean and 1 Ukrainian museums. Not recognising Crimea, Holland refused to return the items.

One would think that it would be natural to return those artefacts to the respective museums whence they come from.


And it's not just about gold:
Quote
Ukraine will never see one dollar of the IMF money. What the IMF is going to do is to substitute Ukrainian indebtedness to the IMF for Ukrainian indebtedness to Western banks. The IMF will hand over the money to the Western banks, and the Western banks will reduce Ukraine’s indebtedness by the amount of IMF money. Instead of being indebted to the banks, Ukraine will now be indebted to the IMF”…

(Note: With the help of the EU and the US, a central banker allied with the West is now the President of the Ukraine. His name is: Oleksandr Turchynov).
3533  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine... Revolution. on: April 12, 2014, 10:36:18 AM
Strong willed woman doesn't mean feminist at least it isn't supposed to mean that

I agree, that it does not need to mean that, yet in most cases it does. Oh, and you learn not to make jokes about women, where you can be heard. But back to Ukraine, where women are still women...
3534  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Who shoot in Kiev? German TV on: April 12, 2014, 10:30:16 AM
Reminding that it's possible in YouTume to select Translate caption for on the fly translation to English (which I can see is pretty accurate).

Another German companion piece to watch in this context, operation "peaceful demonstrators" (dubbed to English):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E18jWXbZY8U
3535  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Russian Parliament May Charge Gorbachev With “Treason” For Breaking Up USSR on: April 12, 2014, 10:23:18 AM
They shouldn't try these people for treason. Rather they should be tried for the death of close to 20 million people, who lost their lives in the post-USSR economic collapse (13 million in Russia, most of the remaining in Ukraine). And the no.1 perpetrator was the drunkard Yeltsin. Gorbachev played his part, but he was only no.2.

Pretty much this. One has also to remember that Gorbachev was under house arrest during the whole coup (GKCHP - ГКЧП) affair. And that the dissolvement of USSR happened between the three musket... conspirators: Yeltsin, Kravchuk and Shushkevich (Belovhezhskoe agreement)

As for Gorbachev, I think he was on the right track with internal state reforms, but they came too late. So it ended up as it goes in one of Chernomyrdin's popular sayings: "We wanted it to be the best, but it ended up being as always" (Хотели как лучше, а получилось как всегда).

I think the whole notion of trial over Gorbachev is ridiculous at best. It might well be a publicity move by those proposing it, so as to score internal political points.
3536  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Ukraine gold sent to America on: April 12, 2014, 10:11:22 AM
they will never get it back.

The chances are so. I don't understand the need to take the gold to the US. If they were fearful of a Russian invasion, then they could take the gold to some of the neighboring nations, such as Hungary or Slovakia.

Germany still demands it's gold reserve back (as does France). Germany got some golden bars, that didn't have German seal on them, after Lybian gold got hauled over to US. Chances are, Germany will get more gold "repatriated" in freshly re-cast Ukrainian gold.
3537  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine... Revolution. on: April 12, 2014, 10:06:35 AM
Well, at least in Norway, feminism is indeed strong with the ruling class, and the Prime Minister is indeed a very strong-willed woman (http://www.regjeringen.no/en/the-government/solberg/members-of-the-government-2.html?id=543170), however I would not say feminism has much to do Norway joining the sanctions - more the fact that Norway is a founding member of NATO.
3538  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Donetsk, Kharkov, Lugansk - way to Russia. on: April 12, 2014, 09:50:40 AM

Meanwhile the salaries are going to remain the same, and in UAH.

Bringing forth an older post, in the second picture the guy in the read shirt holds a placards stating that his salary went down from $400 in January to $278 in April.
The other ones show $ exchange rate is 11.5, food became three times more expensive, house rent went up from 350 to 525 hrivny, "calm down, state workers, there is not money"
3539  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Crimea on: April 11, 2014, 11:04:57 PM
Memory, not history: 70 years on, Crimea's Kerch celebrates liberation from Nazis
http://rt.com/news/crimea-kerch-liberation-memory-464/
3540  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine... Revolution. on: April 11, 2014, 08:10:54 PM
Lavrov stated that Russia has no intention to annex the South-Eastern territories, saying that would contradict Russia's interests:
http://www.interfax.ru/russia/371105

In the meantime, Iceland, Chernogorija, Albanija, Norway and Ukraine "are persuaded to" join EU sanctions against Russia, even though they are not EU members.
http://1prime.ru/News/20140411/782491890.html
The sanctions are basically denying entry to some of the Russian and Crimean officials and robbing (sorry, freezing) their eventual assets in EU.

I wonder, if Ukraine imposes sanctions, should they expect gas at all?

Despite it, Russia can offer help to Ukraine on the following conditions:
Constitutional reforms, elections, forming of a legitimate government with which talks can be conducted, acceptance of Crimea's decision and normalisation in the South-Eastern territories.
http://ria.ru/politics/20140411/1003586970.html
(Hmm... those territories were for a long time known as "South-Western", but history tends to play pranks.)

Merkel (well, technically, Germany, though people there are not happy), decided to punish Russia by not selling it produce from Airbus for a total value of $973 million dollars.
http://www.bfm.ru/news/254160?doctype=news

Also, in a complete display of political schizophreny, EU confirmed that US, EU, Ukraine and Russia will conduct a summit on Ukraine in Geneve on the 17th of April:
http://www.gazeta.ru/politics/news/2014/04/11/n_6077625.shtml
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