Can someone here explain if one could already claim their bitcoin gold if they use electrum? 

You say


Ok, what I think they're referring at, is this:
Most small coins can't be bought with us$ but only with BTC. So you would have to buy BTC first, to buy your coin A. So if you buy 1BTC with your $5000. you don't have $5000 anymore but you now have 1BTC. Then you buy coin A for that, and then later sell your coin A for 0.5BTC which is $10k then, yes you've made a nett profit. But only if you sell your BTC back for us$ and withdrawl. Then you have made a $5k profit. But as long as you keep it in BTC, to invest in the next coin, then you've lost 0.5BTC.

Most investors don't think in $ anymore, they think in BTC (me too). So it's their goal to accumulate as much BTC as possible. And as BTC fluctuates, this ammount of BTC may be worth more $ at one point and less $ at the next moment. but as we all think that BTC will always go up on average in the end, we're fine with the fluctuation of BTC even when it goes down a bit, because it will also go back up again at some point..

Plus as you said, if you lose compared to BTC, you could've better left it in BTC. So if you want to make good trades: buy low (compared to BTC), sell high (compared to BTC).




yes i know most small coins cant be bought with fiat and you need btc.  You say when you sell that coin you made a net profit.  But you then say only if you sell that btc back for us and withdraw.  Well you mean if you sell it for btc and turn it to usdt or send it to gdax/gemini to turn it into usd... then there is profit right?


However, if i keep that in btc... yes i did lose 0.5btc that is correct.  But if i use that 10k worth of btc to buy another coin... well im getting the proper usd amount for the next coin.  Let say the next coin i want to buy is ark.  But no matter what happens after i sell the lisk... i do have a net profit no matter what right?  Thus if btc goes down, it has no effect because i already had a gain on the sale of lisk?  Thus if btc goes down and then later i sell it, i sell bitcoin at a loss right?  And thus the buy/sale of lisk will always show that net profit?


This is the other thing that has me a bit confused.  If i buy lisk at 5 dollars and buy 1000 shares.  You want to sell it at 6 dollars.  Well i know you can just put the price in btc to sell right after you get the lisk.  Such as you don't have to check prices and bittrex will automatically sell it for you to 6 dollars.  However let say you wait a while and then you put 6 dollars in btc.  Well there would be a difference in btc price here assuming btc price changes which it always does.  But that has no effect on your profit though right?  Thus you would get the same profit whether you put down 6 dollars you want it to be sold now or 6 dollars later on since btc price changes?

I got another question i like to ask.


I know if a coin is 1 dollar and if it goes to 10 dollars, the price 10x itself.  If a coin is 1 cent and it goes to 1 dollar, then the coin 100x. 


Now i know there are coins that are less than 1 cent.


For example there are coins that i notice are like 1/100th of a cent.  Thus instead of 1 cent such as 0.01... its 0.0001 etc.  Does that mean if this coin goes to 1 cent, it essentially 100x?  Thus if it goes from 0.0001 to 1 dollar, there is a 10000x?  Thus if you invested say 100 dollars... you could buy 1 million of this coin?  And if this coin ever hits 1 dollar, you have 1 million dollars?  Is something that goes from 0.0001 to 1 dollar 10000x or not?


And have there been coins that had this happen to or not?  Because on coinmarketcap, i notice many coins that start out as 1 cent.  Several of these coins are over 1 dollar now.


So basically if someone buys 10000 shares of a coin that is 1 cent for 100 dollars.  This coin goes up to 1 dollar.. then they have 10000 dollars right?


The other example i want to use is this.  Funfair is shown as worth 0.02 on bittrex.  Its show as 0.00000222 btc so around 2 cents.


On the blockfolio app on my iphone, it shows its $0.01815433, thus a bit less than 2 cents.


What happens when you buy a coin that shows about 2 cents on bittrex... but blockfolio shows it as 0.01815433?  Thus are cents supposed to be rounded or not?  I assume they should to the nearest cent.  The issue is what about those coins that are like $0.00323 etc.  Are these recorded as 0 cents or 1 cent or what?


Because if i buy say 100000 shares of funfair for 2 cents each... thats 2000 usd.  However, if blockfolio shows funfair is 0.024522... and i want to sell it... do i have any profit or not?  Because on bittrex, wouldn't they show the price as 2 cents?  Or does that amount round to around 2.4 cents?  Because my thinking is if you buy a coin that is worth $0.01815433 and say buy 100000 of it... you should be receiving around $1815.43 right?  Or would it be $2000 since it shows 0.02 as the price on bittrex?  Thus blockfolio goes deep into decimals.  And of course there is an issue when a coin costs less than 1 cent.


For example look at dogecoin.  Its $0.001386 so its about 1/10 of a penny.  So if you were to buy 1 million shares of it at this price... you would get about $1386 right?  And if dogecoin hits 1 dollar, you would have a million?  However... what if dogecoin price goes from 0.001386 to 0.01386?  You would have about $13860 right as going from 0.001386 to 0.01386 10x your investment?

Someone here comments


Yes, true. For every altcoin that's not paired with USD(T). Because then you will have to sell back to BTC, and you will get less BTC back than you had invested in this altcoin.

BUT technically you could have made a nett profit. Let me explain, with figurative numbers:

Let's say you're buying altcoin A with 1BTC. BTC is at $5000 and A is at $1. So you're buying 5000 A's.
After 2 months, the value of A went up from $1  to $2 and you want to take profit.
But BTC went up to $20k in the same time.
If you sell them now (back to BTC), you will get only 0.5BTC for your 5000 A's.
Then you can sell your 0.5BTC back to fiat, which will give you $10k. You have certainly made a profit, $5000 to be exact.
BUT: if you hadn't invested in altcoin A and had left your 1 BTC in BTC, you would've owned $20k now instead of $10k. So relatively you've lost money, against the BTC.



This makes the most sense to me.  This poster says you made fiat profit here.  But you lost compared to if you just invested in btc instead because you would have made more.  But here... money profit/loss is the most important thing here right?


I ask this because it seems like peoplt talk about coins that would 5x or 10x.  Well the issue here is according to some posters... even if an altcoin goes from 5 cent to 25 cents and 5x... well if bitcoin goes from 5k to 30k... well they would lose money because bitcoin 6x whereas your altcoin 5x when you sold it... that statement is wrong right?  Thus you lost if you held the bitcoin instead of buying the altcoin.  But in terms of money... which is the most important thing right?  Or is it btc increase?  Then you made profit here?

These are the responses i got


The deposit part is okay, the buying lisk part is also okay. Getting the profit and conversations are true. After you sell them for $6 each, you will have your balance as BTC, because there is no LISK/USDT market on bittrex. This means, you may make profit in terms of USDT, but you may be in the loss in terms of BTC if BTC price went up while you're trading it.




The problem is here:

  "Thus i want to sell it once lisk hits 6 dollars"
 
You do not get to sell your lisk for dollars.  You sell it for BTC.  When you put in your sell order you do not enter dollars, only BTC.

So in your example with BTC = $7838, then $6 is 0.0007656 BTC.  You could sell when lisk hits 0.0007656 BTC.   Of course by that time then BTC could go up or down and 0.0007656 BTC is no longer worth $6, it could be $5 or $8.  Its a moving target when trying to compare BTC and Dollars.

With altcoins your mindset needs to change from thinking in dollars to only thinking in Bitcoin.  Everything is measured against Bitcoin.  You never want to sell your lisk for less BTC than you purchased it for otherwise it would have been better to just hold your BTC rather than trade.




The USD price is there purely as a reference.  Use it or don't.

If Bitcoin drops then it makes altcoins look much more attractive.

Again, you need to stop converting everything to USD, work in BTC.  Trade your BTC for lisk at .0007BTC and sell when they are at .0008BTC.  Don't worry about the dollar, fiat is irrelevant to trading altcoins for bitcoins.  Fiat only comes into play when you cash out/in for BTC.

This is a hard concept to grasp but you need to forget the dollar, think in bitcoin.  Otherwise you will always be trading at a loss and will be broke very quickly.




In your example of buying lisk at $5/0.0007BTC and selling at $6/0.00065BTC, yes, you lost money.

If you had just held the BTC it went from $7142.85 to $9230.76.  Your 1,000 lisk only went up $1000USD minus fee's.  But your actual investment lost ground to BTC and dropped from 0.7BTC to 0.65BTC.   If you had just held the 0.7BTC it went up $1461.53, no fee's.  You lost over $461+ dollars by trading. 

Bitcoin is currently sitting at $8,000USD.  I think most of us expect it to pass $10,000USD in the next 60-90 days.  That is a 25% increase.  In order for your trading to be profitable you have to outperform 25%.  Otherwise just sit on your Bitcoin and do nothing while making 25%.

I posted this in the trading thread and i got replies where im confused about investing in altcoins.  I had thought if you invest in an altcoin that is say 1 dollar.  Well if it goes to 2 doubles, well you double your money right?  Thus say you buy lisk at 5 dollars and say you buy 1000 of it for 5000 dollars plus trading fees.  If it doubles to 2 dollars, well you have 10000 dollars worth of lisk minus trading fees.  So you made 5k less trading fee profit right?  Well when i posted this, i was told look at the btc price.  For example if btc price for lisk is 0.0007 btc... and you were to sell lisk when it hits 6 dollars but btc went up, you could be selling lisk for 0.00065 btc.  They said because of that, you lost compared to holding btc.  At first i did not understand this but then they said you would have made more money if you held that btc as oppose to selling it for lisk.  That makes sense.  But i mentioned well in the example you still make 5k profit less trading fees right?  One person did say yes but others kept telling me that you lose money here.  First off, who is correct here?  I can understand you lose here in terms of getting less btc than you invested even though lisk goes up.  But in terms of profit... $ wise... which is the most important thing here right?  Then you are up money here?


This is what i posted in the trading thread and want it posted here since this is altcoin discussion and people want to know about coins that would 3x, 5x, 10x etc.




I am planning to use bittrex to trade altcoins.  I would first get bitcoin first as i need btc to buy altcoins.

So i have a question on this and want to know if im doing it right.

Let say I have $10000 in btc. 

Btc = 7837.34 usd now

1.28 btc = 10000 usd


I send that 1.28 btc to bittrex.  Lets just make it simple and say i want to buy lisk and its worth $5.  I know its much more than that now but i like to make it simple.  Let say i want to buy 1000 lisk so $5000 plus fees.  I know bittrex fees are 0.25%.  So that means buying 1000 lisk would cost me $5000 + $12.50 = $5012.50.  This is correct right?  So basically now my bittrex btc balance is around half which is 0.64 btc?  To make it simple i ignored the sending btc fee to bittrex.


So let say my goal is to sell it once i make 20 percent profit.  Thus i want to sell it once lisk hits 6 dollars.  Say lisk hits 6 dollars.  I then sell all of it for $6000 - $15 = $5985.  So in this situation I made $5985 - $5012.50 = $972.50.  Is that correct or not? 


So once I sell the lisk on bittrex, I'm getting back btc right since lisk is paired with btc and most altcoins are not paired with usd or usdt as they put it?  So here is what confuses me.  At that moment i will get paid whatever amount btc = $5985 right?  However... isn't it a good chance that i might not get more than 0.64 btc that i originally used to buy lisk assuming btc price went up as well?  Like for example at that moment i bought lisk with my btc...  $5012.50 is about 0.64 btc at that moment.  But now... when i trade $5985 worth of lisk for btc... couldn't i get even less than 0.64 btc?  Thus even though i made a profit of $972.50 in my example buying lisk and then selling lisk... i might get back 0.60 btc only and now my btc balance is only 0.64 btc +0.60 btc = 1.24 btc?  Or is there something wrong with what im calculating here?  I do know when you are investing in altcoins, you are basically betting against bitcoin.  But here in my example, well you need btc in order to buy altcoins almost all the time since theres maybe 10 coins that are paired against usd or usdt?


And if my calculation is wrong, can someone tell me where is my calculation wrong?


Because i believe the profit i calculated is right here.  And if it is right, how do i make sure to lock in these profits?  I know you realized $972.50 in profit here.  But say you dont sell the $972.50 worth of btc now... and wait... well btc price drops... that $972.50 profit could only be $800 or less etc right?  Or is my logic wrong here?  I want to know from daytraders on this as i know daytraders mostly buy low and sell high and make lot of these transactions.  Thus if your goal for lisk is 20 percent profit of 5000 dollars invested and your goal is to make about 1000 dollars on buying lisk minus the buy/sell fees of 27.50 for a total profit of $972.50... are you suppose to immediately send that exact profit $972.50 worth of btc OR WOULD IT BE THE BTC DIFFERENCE between the 1.28 btc you started with and what you have now... and then send it immediately to gdax or gemini and sell it to them and then you lock that $972.50 in profit immediately to your bank account?


The thing is if everything was paired with USD, then it would be very easy to calculate/profits and losses.  I know bittrex has usdt but that is only paired with btc and not many other coins.  So the other thing is would daytraders instead of sending it to gdax or gemini... they immediately turn that btc into USDT?  That way their profits are locked since you have usdt?  I know usdt is around 1 dollar but it cannot be a little less or more.  But i read its still an altcoin.  So i want to know exactly how daytraders lock in their profit after they lock in their profit from one coin.  And most importantly, is it even possible to have a lesser btc balance after buying lisk at 5 dollars and selling it at 6 dollars depending on the btc price.  Because this is very confusing to me.

Well if you bought it at 1 dollar and bought say 1000 of it... then notice it hit 300 dollars and then want to get rid of it, could you do this now or not?  So if someone did buy 1000 shares of bitconnect at 1 dollar... and kept it till now, could they sell that 1000 bitconnect and get 3 million dollars worth of bitcoin now?


Because if i buy that much bitconnect and then have that much now and now read its a ponzi, i would immediately cash everything out.  But the thing is can you do cash out now?  Or you mean if you wait long enough, they will not have the funds to pay you out?  Could you get paid now if you have bitcoin and want to get rid of 100 or 1000?  Would there be enough btc to pay you out?  Or you can't get paid out?

Do others agree with this?  This is what i thought of as well.  Say you buy 100 or 500 bitcoin when it was like 1 dollar or so.  If it went up to 100 dollars, yes people would probably sell.  But if your investment was only 100 or 500 isn't it better to not cash out?  I mean i could understand someone cashing out say 10 percent or even 50 percent and they are on a freeroll etc.  How many people out there still haven't sold any btc that they got when it was 1 dollar?  I assume pretty much 0 percent right?  Like if someone got 100 bitcoin or more, surely they cashed out some of it.

Hi there thanks for the response.


Okay so in this example that you used, yes this is the type of example that i like to look at.  Yes if altcoin a goes from 1 dollar to 2 dollar and i buy 5000 of it at 1 dollar, it cost me 5000.  If it doubles to 2 dollars, i basically doubled my money so i have 10000 total so 5000 profit. 


Yes that makes sense if btc went up to 20k at the time... i would only get back 0.5btc for my 5000 altcoins whereas i invested 1 altcoin to buy those 5000 alts earlier so i get back only half of my altcoins. 


You say yes i made a profit here of $5000.  I know its $5000 minus the buying/selling fees but yes this is what im looking for. 


But is there a reason why those other posters kept telling me i lost money here?  Both posters kept saying i lost because i received less btc than i bought with.  Thus i could buy an altcoin at 0.0007 btc and even if the price went up for the altcoin, if btc goes up a higher percentage, then when i sell that altcoin, i could only receive 0.00065 btc.  They said you have to make sure you receive more btc per alt when you sell than when you buy.  That did not make sense because if i receive less btc... well if btc price is higher, then well it shouldn't matter.


Yes that makes sense if i have that 1 btc and just hold it as oppose to using it to buy 5000 altcoin in your example, i would make more assuming btc goes up from 5k to 20k and the altcoin went up from 1 dollar to 2 dollar.  Yes that make sense i lost money against the btc.  However, if you are daytrading and looking to make profits, then does that really matter assuming you are looking to invest in altcoins only with those certain btc?


Is there a reason why those posters kept mentioning im losing money here in this trade with my numbers?  Because what you said.. makes absolute sense.  The only thing was i didn't think about when looking at profit in that example was hey if you just kept the btc instead... you would have made more assuming btc went up higher percentage than the altcoin.  The way those posters spoke.. it was as if okay if you invest in an altcoin, you need to make sure it increased at a higher percentage than btc during that period.  For example if you buy an altcoin and it goes up from 1 dollar to 3 dollars... you better make sure btc don't go from 5000 to more than 15000 otherwise you lose money.  That made wonder... how is it even possible to make money investing in altcoins then?  Such that what would be the point of trying to make 10 percent or even 20 percent profit on a coin from buying it if btc goes higher than that.  And the thing was when i read altcoin discussion, i never read anything about this.  Everything is which coin will double or 3x or more etc and i didn't read any post about you lose money if btc goes higher percentage than the altcoin. 


Can you answer these other questions i just posted?  And thanks for your post because your post makes absolute sense.  And can others here chime in and comment on fromholland's post and confirm this is true?  Because this makes sense to me as he says yes there is profit whereas those other posters say there isn't.

Can any other daytraders reply to this?  I was told on another forum that this is not correct... because even though im getting less btc than i invested even though lisk goes up, well the price of btc went higher so you do have profit.

To those that daytrade, do you need btc price to go down when your altcoin goes up or stay the same to make profit?


I posted in a thread where i mentioned say i buy lisk at 5 dollars and let say price is 0.0007 btc.  I buy 1000 of it.  Now let say my plan was to sell at 6 dollars to make 20 percent profit or 1k minus fees.  When it hits that price, i sell my lisk for btc as that is what it is exchanged with.  However, let say during this time, btc went up a lot.  So each lisk is worth 0.00065 btc only.  Here... do i lose money or not?  Someone tells me here you lose money because you get less btc than you invested in.  The only thing i understand here is yes you get less btc... however... btc is worth more than it was back then.  So wouldn't this still be a profit?  I read people say look at the altcoin in terms of btc price and not usd.  Well if thats the case, does that mean a coin that doubles from 1 dollar to 2 dollar would lose you money when you sell assuming btc tripled in price?  I thought well you would get less btc when you sell... but you still make that profit right since btc price is higher?

In a thread i created, i used an example of an altcoin.


I said i would like to buy lisk at 5 dollars and buy 1000 lisk so 5000 dollars.  let say lisk is 0.0007 btc at that moment.  I buy it on bittrex.  Then when i notice lisk hits 6 dollars, i plan to sell it.  Thus make 20 percent profit on the 5k so 1000 profit less trading fees.  However let say btc went up around then.  So when i get my btc... i only get 0.0065 btc per lisk.


Someone tells me that here... i actually lost money.  Is this true or not?  I understand how i get less btc than i invested as invested 0.0007 btc X 1000 shares etc.... and get only 0.00065 btc x 1000 shares etc... assuming btc price went up.  So here... even though i lose btc... i still make profit right because the btc price is higher?  Someone said you are not suppose to look at the usd rate... you look at the price of the altcoin in terms of btc.  If that is true, and btc goes up, then how are you suppose make money on altcoin if it goes up not a lot then?  I thought if you buy an altcoin at 1 dollar and it doubles to 2 doubles, you double your money right?  But if bitcoin actually triples up from that moment you bought the altcoin... to the moment you sold your altcoin for btc... you are down money?  Can someone explain this? 

This is what i mentioned earlier that doesn't make sense. 


Even if i receive 0.00065 btc per lisk after lisk goes from 5 dollars to 6 dollars or 0.0007 btc to 0.00065 btc, well im getting less btc than i bought with.  However, the btc price is higher than it was before.  So the total amount of btc now i have in USD that i withdrew at that moment is higher than the usd value right before i bought the lisk right?  Because if that is the case, yes i lose btc.  But don't i gain profit here?


Can someone else also comment on this?  Because that means even if a coin goes from 1 dollar to 10 dollars, then you could lose money if bitcoin 15 times itself when you sell your altcoin at 10 dollars?

Okay if in that example i gave i would lose money, then how is even investing in altcoins profitable then if bitcoin is only going to go up? 


The thing is i have bitcoin but those are the bitcoin that i held.  Im planning to buy bitcoin with USD so i could get altcoins.  Thus lisk etc.  So that situation still applies?  Because if i could just buy an altcoin like lisk with usd, then i would do that instead.  Thus if that coin price goes up or down, then thats how much profit you should make.


So basically i cannot invest in any altcoin and lock in 10 or 20 percent profit if i believe btc will go higher than the altcoin percentage during that time?  For example, say i buy lisk at 5 dollars or 0.0007btc and buy 1000 of it.  Say after a very short bit... lisk goes to 6 dollars or 0.00065 btc because bitcoin went up a lot as well.  So here, i lose money?  If thats the case, how can you even make money then on altcoins if you are betting against bitcoin?  I mean so you are saying if you buy altcoin and sell it at the same buy price of 0.00065 btc or 5 dollars... but bitcoin dropped a lot in price... then when you sell it for btc, you gain money?  This sounds confusing because what about those people that buy altcoins for 1 dollar and then it went up to 5 dollars etc?  Because bitcoin when it was 300 dollars for example definitely has 5x its price so those people who invested in coins that are 1 dollar and went up to 5 dollar loses if bitcoin was 300 at that time and went higher than 1500 when they were ready to sell that altcoin?  Because if this is the case, this is really ridiculous that you cannot buy altcoins with usd and cashout with usd.  I mean unless there is something im mentioning wrong here... why has there not been traders who demand there should be usd?

Anyone else got these coins and can explain if you can sell these?

When you say bitcoin drops, it makes altcoin look more attractive.  What do you mean by this?  You mean if you want to buy altcoins?

Yes people say look at btc and not usd. 

But you are telling me its possible to lose money if you invested in a coin like lisk where you bought 1000 shares at 5 dollars or lets just say 0.0007 btc.  Then when the price hits 6 dollars... lets just say 6 dollars is now 0.00065 btc.  Then you sell it for btc.  So here, moneywise you should be up 1000 dollars minus fees.  But you get back less btc than you started with. 

So here, this is NOT what you want to do?

However, you do make around 1k profit minus fees though right since even though you receive less btc than you invested even though the price went up, well that 0.00065 btc is worth more than the 0.0007 btc that you initially used to buy lisk?

So in this example, you can't lock in any profits and send money to your bank account to lock in the 1k minus trading fees?  Because i thought you would transfer whatever btc amount is around 1k to lock in your profits?  Or it does not work this way?

Yes this concept is confusing.  Because here... when you invest in altcoins and it goes up... you need bitcoin to either stay at same price or go lower in order for you to get more bitcoin right?  However, what if you already are holding bitcoin that you don't touch etc and want to invest in altcoins.  Because i obviously do not want bitcoin to go down because i have a lot more money in bitcoin than investing in altcoin.

So do daytraders either daytrade bitcoin/eth/litecoin because they can deal with usd only?  Or they only trade altcoins and don't own bitcoin because if bitcoin goes up, then they lose bitcoin if altcoins go up etc assuming bitcoin goes up enough?

1.  Okay so i have questions on those examples i listed.  When waves and shift was going to offer their ICO, how long ago do they post a thread/announcement about it?  How long usually is there for people to think before investing in it?  Like for example if they post this waves or shift ico is coming out, typically how long do customers get before buying it such as okay you can no longer buy it anymore?  Also do certain icos get people buying it very quickly?  Such as when this ico announcement is out, you might not be able to get in on as it as soon as they post?  Or that is not possible?   But just to make sure of this, that ico needs x amount of money before the they release the coins right?  Or not?  Also typically on average what is the total price of the total coins of an ICO for customers to buy?  Like could an ICO be worth only 10k worth of shares if each each is like 0.0001 cents etc?


2.  Now this is what im curious about.  When waves and shift did their ico, when investors bought into it, how long did it take before they got their waves and shift?  Also i heard many icos are scams.  So basically by that you mean you invest in an ICO lets just say like shift.  But they could not give you any shift and just take your money.. is that correct?  Is that what is mean by an ico scam or not?  And if so, how often does this occur and is this common?  Or do they scam you another way?  That is what i thought the scam is. 


3.  The other thing i thought of is ... is ICO like people investing in funds so a coin could happen?  Like crowdfunding?  Such as they need x amount of money in order for the project to work?  But what if it doesn't hit that target number?  Do you just wait until it hits that target number?  Or do they cancel it if they don't hit it?  Do they take your moeny if they don't hit it?  Or are all the coins already there and this is basically you wanting a piece of those shares before they come out?


4.  Now let say you don't take part in an ICO as most don't and i read people say don't do it as most are scams or something similar.  Now let say you saw waves and shift ICO but did not take part in it.  How soon after they release the coins to the people who invested in it... can you buy those coins yourself?  For example, how long did it take before ico investors of waves and shift came out where you could buy some on bittrex?  And does it depend on the success of the coin?  Like how does a coin even hit bittrex since its a top exchange?  Like when waves came out, it was around 20 cents or so when i check the history.  How long after waves came out to ico investors could i buy waves on bittrex?  Or could i buy waves through say their website?  Or it does not work that way?


5.  And investing in ico is generally very risky right?  First being they could scam you and not give you coins?  Or its fake from the beginning and they making everything up?  Or they can't do that?  However, the benefit of ICO is you could get a coin that is say 20 cents but right before it hits bittrex, what would be the price of it?  I mean could a coin that is sold at ico for 20 cents each be 1 dollar already right before its posted on bittrex?  However that isn't possible right since no trading can be done before it gets put on an exchange?


6.  Because what i like to know is how these coins that are 20 cents and 1 cent... how soon would i be able to get them on bittrex if i didn't invest in the ico since most don't. 


7.  And how soon can we know if an ico is successful early?  For example say a coin comes out and its 25 cents.  It goes up to 1.25 for example.  I know you can check it on coinmarketcap but do threads about a certain coin booming right after its posted on bittrex get posted much in the altcoin discussion/speculation forum?  Because that is usually how i found out about certain altcoins.

Okay so if that is the case, then wouldn't that mean i need btc to either stay the same price or go lower than when i bought lisk and it goes up from 5 to 6 dollars?


So wouldn't that mean buying lisk at 5 dollars and it going up to 8 dollars could still mean losing money if btc went up a lot?


Well the thing is im planning to get btc sole for investing in altcoins.  And i definitely look at the altcoin price though.  So if i don't look at the altcoin price, then wouldn't it mean i need btc to stay the same or go down?  Thus if you buy lisk at 5 dollars and bought 1000 lisk... assuming btc drops and lisk stays the same price.. then you sell the lisk, then you profit?  Also then what is exactly the point of these altcoins having a usd price then if you are not suppose to compare it to dollars.

I know this means initial coin offering.  I also know there is a section of it on this forum.



So what i want to know is this.  When something like this occurs and you want to take part in it, say whatever coin it is, how do you do it?  And when you do, do you need to give them a btc deposit on how much of that coin you want?  When would you know how much that coin costs? 



The thing is i want to use an example of a few coins.  For example, i know waves and shift are sort of new... well waves is not that new but shift is.  Well if i heard about waves, i probably would definitely buy this coin because it sounds very good.  Yes i know that sounds foolish to say.  But when waves and shift came out, how many shares do most ppl buy when it comes out?  Do you have to put a deposit before the coin comes out with btc such as i want x amount of waves or shift?  The other thing i want to know is how long does it take for a coin to come out and then it explodes to the point where everyone talks about it on the altcoin discussion or speculation?



And is that subforum here the only way to know about the new ico's?  The issue though is when i visit that subforum, it looks like a lot of spam etc.  Like there are posts everywhere and so many coins etc.  But is there a way to find out what new coins has come out recently?  But if he did come out recently, wouldn't that mean you didn't take part in the ico and you have to buy through an exchange?  Or this would not be possible though because its too early?


For example, when waves and shift came out, assuming you didn't take part in the ico... how soon could you buy waves and shift through bittrex?  Or could you buy it through their website?


The thing is i want to know of new coins that are coming out and then i would research it a bit and then would definitely be interested in buying some of these coins especially if they are very cheap.  I mean i can't believe coins like waves and shift in the history showed that they started out as 20 cents or 1 cent or even less than that etc.

Can someone comment on this?  I like to know how to do this before i daytrade.  Thus i don't want to know after i bought lisk at 5 dollars and then sold lisk at 6 dollars, i got no profit at all because btc went up too high etc.