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Switching to mBTC would attract more buyers for sure. Let's do not forget that Bitcoin is generally perceived by the gran public as a currency more than a pure store of value, and thus paying +$100 for a single coin/token feels extremely expensive. That's true in the US and Europe, even more so in other parts of the world.
Anyhow, I think that the market will adjust itself regarding which units of BTC are used on exchanges and goods pricing.
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Reading this thread (just reading it, not participating in the experiment!) has finally made me understand how Ripple works. There were many threads that tried to explain Ripple, somehow I just did not get it because nobody could really explain to me exactly how the ownership of value (or the promise of such) propagates from A over B to C in Ripple and what it all means and its implications, now after reading this thread I finally understand. This thread is highly educational! Especially the explanation what happened to web3er's ฿10.15/Bitstamp finally made it all clear to me! Thank you!
It's simple really. TradeFortress promised to pay each user 1 BTC who trusted him 100 BTC. He sent IOUs for 1 BTC to each person who trusted him. He had no BTC. As soon as somebody who had trusted him had BTC backed by a gateway that was trustworthy, some of those promises has a trust chain back to a source which would turn the IOUs in to Blockchain BTC. TradeFortress did not issue some kind of different, made up, BTC, he promised to pay people real BTC, sending them IOUs. I trusted him, using an account with trusted BTC IOUs in it, and people then cashed out the BTC HE (TradeFortress) owed them. So, TradeFortress owes me 10.15 BTC, nobody owes him any. He also has many BTC promises ready to be cashed in, 455+ BTC by his own count, which can be cashed in the second anybody puts trusted btc IOUs from a reputable gateway in to any of those accounts. The ripple system worked perfectly, and had already been demonstrated and used for months. TradeFortress simply demonstrated it again, but in a very untrustworthy way, not fullfiling any of his promises. Simply, he only demonstrated that he is untrustworthy, and indeed that he doesn't pay back money he owes. good to see you lost 10.15 BTC by using a faulty/deprecated system and being stupid! its your own fault after all lol Did you not read? I didn't loose any BTC. TradeFortress personally owes me it. If I have "lost" that BTC, then TradeFortress has scammed me, and tried to scam a few hundred other bitcointalk users. This is what you get when you deal with debt-backed money. TradeFortress "experiment" is brilliant, as it is also a perfect example of how the actual debt based financial system works. You have witnessed a small scale and schematic reproduction of the same processes that triggered the recent financial crisis or the default of Argentina in 2001. Trust + Money = problems, and this is the very point Bitcoin was designed to address. |
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I have to say that after being at the conference, talking with the Ripple guys (who did a really valient job of trying to explain to everyone how it works) I still don't understand how it works. To my credit, most people at the conference said they don't understand it. Including some of the core bitcoin dev's and a number of other talented programmers in the bitcoin world. Indeed, no one I spoke to said they really understood how it work.
So, to quote one guy at the conference: "It should make you nervous that you don't understand it".
That's my position on it for now. Speculatively it looks interesting, but the fact that I don't understand it, and guys much smarter and more experienced then myself don't understand it, makes me skeptical of it's future.
Man, I now understand it very well. It's a reproduction of the old banking system. If you are trusted (in Ripple, you are a Gateway), you issue IOU's: if you issue IOU's which are not backed by real assets... Well, that's how it is in debt-based systems. You just incur in more debt to cover the holes, and if you don't, you default. Example: 1) You deposit BTC to Bitstamp (the only "official" Gateway ATM) 2) You grant trust to Bitstamp inside Ripple 3) You "send" your BTC from Bitstamp to your Ripple account: your BTC never leave Bitstamp, they just send a "piece of paper" (IOU) saying that they owe you 10BTC 4) You can trade those IOUs inside Ripple, you can pay for goods, etc. I hope you grasp the very negative incentives that Bitstamp could have - again, they are virtually able to create money from thin air. They could "lend" you money they don't have against a commission (as the fucking banks we want to get rid of do). This is what TradeFortress is doing - people gave him "trusted" status, so he can virtually create money (455 BTC up to date) - because inside Ripple you just trade IOU's - the only thing is not a IOU are Ripples. Fucked up system if you ask me. We already have a bank system. And we want to get rid of it. |
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And think about this: OpenCoin will hold to 50% of the total Ripples created. You need to grant them a LOT of trust to place money in XRPs. They can crash the market with a fart, and they may be very well decide to hold onto 80% on the XRPs. Or to 90%. They won't tell you, because they don't know, they will just do what it suits best to them.
Now compare that shit with BTC, my friend.
You only need to trust them if you hold XRP. Who cares if the XRP market crashes when you're using Ripple as a distributed cryptocurrency exchange? What are you talking about? You do not exchange cryptocurrency in Ripple. You exchange a) XRP's or b) other cryptocurrencies IOU's IOU's which owner can default or decide not to honor them. Only thing which is not an IOU in Ripple are Ripples - quite convenient for OpenCoin, don't you think so? You have no idea what you're talking about. You're just regurgitating Tradeforest talking posts and you're not even doing a good job of it.  Sorry? I'm using Ripple. I've been trading real money in there, as I wanted to understand it. I sent REAL BTC to Bitstamp, and they sent me BTC IOU's to Ripple. Yeah, my BTC never left the Bitstamp BTC address - they are holding them, and they sent BTC IOU's to Ripple, but they can actually do whatever they want with my BTC. They can spend them, and I would still have the BTC IOU's on Ripple. Then, Bitstamp can decide if they honor or not the IOU's they sent to my Ripple address. Yeah: welcome to fractional reserve, welcome to creating money out of thin air. After receiving my BTC IOU's from Bitstamp, I exchanged them for USD IOU's - and then exchanged the USD IOU's for Ripples. The only asset you hold in Ripple are Ripples. The rest, is debt (IOU's), which issuer can decide to honor or not. |
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Ripple
i think we all should do some home work from what i've read ripple can become a powerful tool. and bitcoin would be better off if every bitcoiner knew exactly what it is all about and how to use it. I'm not claiming to have full technical knowledge of Ripple (but neither do I have that level of knowledge of Bitcoin), but I do know enough about it to believe that the arguments in defense of it all seemed to ignore one basic problem many bitcoin followers have: it's centralized, and there is no indication that this will ever change. Rampion's post is an excellent summary of why I don't trust, and don't feel like supporting Ripple (I agree with everything except the last paragraph about the founders "cashing out". They will never do such a thing, as it would instaneously destroy their wealth in the process). If you feel that anyone who's critical of Ripple is just (consciously or not) trying to defend his own get-rich stake in Bitcoin, then I guess I can't really argue any further. Oda, I know it's unlikely they will suddenly "cash out" - it's just an extreme example of how much trust you have to place in OpenCoin to hold Ripples. We all know that the very first Bitcoin purpose is to solve the trust issue. |
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And think about this: OpenCoin will hold to 50% of the total Ripples created. You need to grant them a LOT of trust to place money in XRPs. They can crash the market with a fart, and they may be very well decide to hold onto 80% on the XRPs. Or to 90%. They won't tell you, because they don't know, they will just do what it suits best to them.
Now compare that shit with BTC, my friend.
You only need to trust them if you hold XRP. Who cares if the XRP market crashes when you're using Ripple as a distributed cryptocurrency exchange? What are you talking about? You do not exchange cryptocurrency in Ripple. You exchange a) XRP's or b) other cryptocurrencies IOU's IOU's which owner can default or decide not to honor them. Only thing which is not an IOU in Ripple are Ripples - quite convenient for OpenCoin, don't you think so? |
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Look at the market depth in the Ripple trade system.
It's a joke.
Total ask sum (BTC/XRP Bitstamp) is less than BTC600 BTC
In EUR there's no market yet.
In USD, almost nothing... With $200,000 you can buy all the bids till 1 XRP = $1, and that's only because a joker has placed a bid of aprox. $150,000 at $1/XRP
So, spend $200,000 and the XRP price will skyrocket from 50 XRP per dollar to 1/1. And there you have your $100,000,000,000 market cap
Just a fucking joke, pump and dump games, pigs getting slaughtered, etc. etc. etc.
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Ripple
i think we all should do some home work from what i've read ripple can become a powerful tool. and bitcoin would be better off if every bitcoiner knew exactly what it is all about and how to use it. I really did the last days. I also spent REAL money (10BTC) to buy some K's of XRPs, just to test their bult-in trade system. And I'm convinced it's a fucked up system. Not because is not useful (it is useful) Bad because it is: a) everything Bitcoin was designed to address (trust-based system, WTF man? Bitcoin very first purpose is to address the need of trust in money transmitting) b) a premined scam And no, Adam, NO: it won't do any good to Bitcoin. Users of Ripple may realize that the fiat currencies their are exchanging are just valueless IOU0's, a debt ticking-bomb about to explode, so they may prefer the crypto, as we prefer BTC to USD - but the crypto they will prefer is XRP, 100% premined by a private company. Trust the blockchain, trust your private keys, trust bitcoin. Not a private coin on a system based on trusting third-parties (firstly and foremost OpenCoin; then, your Gateways). And think about this: OpenCoin will hold to 50% of the total Ripples created. You need to grant them a LOT of trust to place money in XRPs. They can crash the market with a fart, and they may be very well decide to hold onto 80% on the XRPs. Or to 90%. They won't tell you, because they don't know, they will just do what it suits best to them. Now compare that shit with BTC, my friend. |
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People granting trust to anonymous people on the interwebz like there's no tomorrow.
Congratulations Ripple, you are democratizing the very characteristics we hate about the banking system: creating money out of thin air because of a trust and debt based system.
I can foresee huge scams coming, spirals of debt collapsing and as it always happens, the weakest link will be left holding the bag. "Ripple is bad because it lets people do bad things." If Ripple was a hammer, you would forecast people having sore thumbs. And at the end of the day, if Ripple succeed you will be all set for life - because the only thing with a real value inside your system will be XRP's. The rest of "money" in it is just valueless paper, debt, IOU's.... So you think that Ripple will replace the entire multi-trillion dollar fiat economy with a crypto-currency that cannot be inflated, and that's bad because it'll make some people rich. Gotcha. So your Ripples will skyrocket in value. And how many will you hold to? 50 billion? 20 billion? Can we have a concrete figure? We can't predict the future and it makes no sense for us to commit to a plan that prevents us from adapting to changing circumstances. We currently expect to give 50 billion away to drive adoption. Wow, so you are willing to hold onto 50% of the whole currency supply?? That's ambitious. Now tell me about the FED and centralized power. What if one day you feel playful and want to dump all your XRP's to drive the price to 0 and ruin some folks just for the lulz? Yeah, that's some crazy shit, you are not so bad... But my point is that you really need to trust the guys holding 50% of the total money supply, don't you? That's a problem with Ripple, you need to grant too much trust to a single private entity. Honestly, I thought Bitcoin's purpose was to address the trust issue. |
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Tradeforest is a fraud who in all his insecurities is completely afraid of Ripple. He knows the flaws of Bitcoin, as do many of you, and it frightens him and many of you, that Ripple has aimed to fix them.
Also, if you're going to explain Ripple, at least do it with integrity. Ripple is still in beta and will be decentralized upon release of the server source code. Sure, they render your mining efforts useless and for good reason but to flat out lie about Ripple either shows you don't know what you're talking about or you too are afraid of Ripple because of the deep seeded insecurities, that lie with the flaws of Bitcoin. That which the Bitcoin community refuses to address. As they say, you snooze you loose and never is this more true than in the world of technology.
I'm quite sure you are into Bitcoin only because you are into get-rich-quick schemes, and that's why I'm sure you are also holding Ripples. But you do not understand Bitcoin is a revolution - a movement. It is about being debt-free, about saying fuck off to fractional reserve. Is about holding a real asset and not debt-backed valueless paper. Ripple is just taking the old banking system (which is just accounting and debt transfers) to a distributed level, while introduces its very own premined currency. From one side, in Ripple you have "the old banking system" in his distributed version: which is a debt-based scam that allows anybody to create money from thin air, while the weakest links are left holding the bag. Nothing new under the sun. From the other side, you have the "cryptocurrency" inside Ripple, the XRP: which is just a premined scam, where ALL the coins have been created by a private entity for its own profit. OpenCoin will distribute their crypto as they wish, hoping that it will increase in value because everything else in Ripple is just "paper scams". It's the third time I tell you, Coinseeker: you do not understand Bitcoin. You do not understand its deep revolutionary implications. Bitcoin is meant to set you free, while Ripple is meant for their creators to be rich. Bitcoin solves a huge problem in money transfer: TRUST. You only need to trust maths in Bitcoin. With Ripple, is the opposite - you have to blindly trust a lot of things. |
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It is all REAL BTC. No it's not, it's a BTC IOU. If it were real BTC you'd be able to spend it right away. It is a promise to pay 1 BTC, is it not, a promise that is automatically and digitally made liquid the second you are trusted by anybody with a BTC IOU from a trusted source. TradeFortress walked in to this with eyes wide open, hoping for exactly this result. It has happened, he has taken out 10.15 BTC worth of debt from a trusted source with me, which he now owes me. It's not my fault he's given it away. More to the point, many other people could have been deceived out of up to 100 BTC each (and still could be), and 445+ people have been (potentially) let down by TradeFortress's as yet unfulfilled promises. If this isn't a deceitful, foolish, untrustworthy, dirty thing to do, what is? You are the fool for granting trust for 100 BTC to an anonymous guy on the interwebz. If he defaults, what are you gonna do? Nothing. What TradeFortress has done is a brilliant example of what Ripple is. There will be a lot of scams going on in Ripple, lot of people will get burnt. What TradeFortress has done is abuse peoples trust, by using his reputation as trusted here to con people out of BTC. It doesn't matter what system is used, it has been abused. This is nothing to do with ripple, and show's no flaw in it. It simply shows that you should be careful who you trust, always. TradeFortress has asked for trust, and promised people money. He has incurred debt. He has a 100 BTC overdraft with many members of this forum, and he's cashed out over 10 BTC so far. This is money he owes. TradeFortress is either trustworthy, or is not. So far, it seems he's one of the shadiest people I've ever met on the internet. He has facilitated nothing but his own demise. TradeFortress, make good your promises, repay your debts, contact the people who issued trust to you and ask them to revoke it. What you have tried to do here is low and foolish. TradeFortress has done an excellent job. You are a fool if you "trust" a guy because of his post count. You trust the blockchain and your Bitcoin private keys. You do not trust fractional reserve. You do not trust IOU's. You trust MONEY, not DEBT. End of the lesson. EDIT: you should be actually happy of this. Yours is an excellent example of what will come. You will pass to history to be the very first user to be left holding the bag inside Ripple. And I can guarantee that there will be A LOT of gullible people that will be left holding the bag inside Ripple, including a lot of XRP holders. |
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If we look at the market cap of ripple (which now apparently is TWICE that of bitcoin), we're only decimal shifting away from the price of bitcoin exploding. The human psyche is interesting. The same applies to alternative currencies. It's like if people are unable to think in anything but units. "Oh, 1 BTC costs $122, that's very costly". Yet, ripple costs twice that, if you where to divide by total units. Pretty ridiculous, and a very good reason to adapt mBTC. A similar effect could even be accomplished by multiplying all bitcoins in existence with say 100x. So everyone who now owns 1 BTC will suddenly own 100 BTC, with a limt of 2100 million instead of 21 million. There is no difference, but I'm convinced the psychological effect of a change like this would cause massive increase in the price. The evidence is right in front of our eyes, ripple has nowhere the same adaption as bitcoin. What's happening with Ripple is a joke. A couple of months ago they gave away 50K to anybody with a bitcointalk.org account who asked for it. A lot of members bought forum accounts, and have accumulated hundreds of thousand/millions of XRP. Today, $1 buys you roughly 50 Ripples - that means that the Ripple founders just "gave away" $1,000 to everybody who asked for them a couple of months ago, and they are sitting on +$1B potential profit at this very moment - with their buggy software in early Beta, with only a trusted Gateway in the system (Bitstamp) and without having proved anything (there's a lot of security concernes that need to be tested). Obviously the $1,5B market cap is just "theory", because there is no market for 100B Ripples ATM, but it illustrates how crazy is this shit, and how rich the OpenCoin founders can become with their business model. Even if Ripple is "half a failure", they will be all set for life. IMO it's an horrible product from a philosophic point of view (actually it allows anyone to create "money out of thin air" through IOU's, I can foresee epic scams coming, everybody can be a bank running fractional reserve), but it is a BRILLIANT idea for their creators.. It's the ultimate get-rich-quick scheme.... But only for them. As soon as they want to cash out, they will destroy the market - heck, they say the will hold onto 20% of the total currency that will ever be created. And now tell me about the FED. They are the ultimate centralized power. +1 But why? god why are people paying that much? It's not possible to justify such massive market cap when bitcoin, which has been here for years and has countless merchants, is worth less. It must be purely human psyche at play. People are unable to differentiate between units of different market caps and it leads to it being ridiculously overpriced. There are people getting rich here, without bringing much value to the table. I'm definitivly not buying ripples any time soon. Because people love get-rich-quick schemes, and they do not realize that it's stupid to play a game where a single entity controls all the cards (the Ripples, controlled by OpenCoin). The game is rigged, it's simply the opposite of Bitcoin. Everybody buying Ripples think they will be so smart that they will be the first in, the first out - so they will profit from the pump before the dump. But I really do not understand how Bitcoin supporters can also support Ripple. Ripple is everything Bitcoin fights: centralized, based on debt, allows anybody to run spiral-of-debt scams, fractional reserve games... Heck, in fact what Ripple does is bringing to the average Joe the possibility to run their own debt-based scam, in the same form as traditional banks do. Check what's happening in this thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=206948.0TradeFortress, in a genius move, is exposing what I'm explaining: he is creating money out of thin air (455 BTC up to now), money he is giving away, but that he could have actually used to buy goods. Yeah, the fools are the ones granting to him the trust for him to act as a Gateway, but this will happen over and over: in Ripple you can work on your trust, have people trusting you X amount, and you can create debt out of that shit, then default and disappear - as banks do, but with Ripple you can do it in a "distributed" way. What a JOKE. Check it out, the first fool lost 10.5 REAL blockchain BTC and now he is left holding IOU's - good luck with that, we can see that he is in fact he first Ripple user to be "left holding the bag". My opinion: fuck get-rich-quick schemes, fuck premined scams fuck "paper" money, fuck IOU's, fuck debt: we want REAL money in its digital form, and this is why Bitcoin was created EDIT: 1 Bitcoin is 1 Bitcoin - it has to be in the blockchain. Bitcoin in Ripple is not Bitcoin, is just debt. I wonder what Satoshi would say about this. |
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It is all REAL BTC. No it's not, it's a BTC IOU. If it were real BTC you'd be able to spend it right away. It is a promise to pay 1 BTC, is it not, a promise that is automatically and digitally made liquid the second you are trusted by anybody with a BTC IOU from a trusted source. TradeFortress walked in to this with eyes wide open, hoping for exactly this result. It has happened, he has taken out 10.15 BTC worth of debt from a trusted source with me, which he now owes me. It's not my fault he's given it away. More to the point, many other people could have been deceived out of up to 100 BTC each (and still could be), and 445+ people have been (potentially) let down by TradeFortress's as yet unfulfilled promises. If this isn't a deceitful, foolish, untrustworthy, dirty thing to do, what is? You are the fool for granting trust for 100 BTC to an anonymous guy on the interwebz. If he defaults, what are you gonna do? Nothing. What TradeFortress has done is a brilliant example of what Ripple is. There will be a lot of scams going on in Ripple, lot of people will get burnt. |
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Mrbigg: what do you plan to do with your Ripples? I would like to hold them for as long as possible, only liquidating them a little bit at a time to pay for expenses. Ideally a gateway will offer some sort of checking account where I can deposit my XRP and spend them using regular checks, a debit card, and ACH payments the way I spend my dollars now. I'd also like this for my Bitcoins - I want to hold all my savings in cryptocurrencies only, converting them into US Dollars milliseconds before I spend it at traditional places like the gas station, grocery store, or rent. This is what Ripple promises to do eventually. my argument is that their only way to make a killing (10x-100x) which their investors demand is to create a system that naturally causes XRP to rise in value. there is huge potential to create economic distortions using this model. XRPs will rise in value because they do useful things in the Ripple system. I don't see how providing utility leads to economic distortions. Bitcoin has huge potential to create economic distortions - of the good kind! Now $1 dollar buys you 50 Ripples. The market cap is HIGHER than Bitcoin's one. But what's the volume in USD on BTC/XRP Bitstamp? A fucking joke. That's going to skyrocket. You can feel it. And there are people holding BILLIONS of that shit. It's simply stupid to play that game. They will dump them, they will crash the market, last ones in will be left holding the bag, and they will be set for their life. This is the ultimate pump and dump scheme, pure speculation. You shouldn't have your savings on a currency for which a single entity holds the majority of it. T |
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If we look at the market cap of ripple (which now apparently is TWICE that of bitcoin), we're only decimal shifting away from the price of bitcoin exploding. The human psyche is interesting. The same applies to alternative currencies. It's like if people are unable to think in anything but units. "Oh, 1 BTC costs $122, that's very costly". Yet, ripple costs twice that, if you where to divide by total units. Pretty ridiculous, and a very good reason to adapt mBTC. A similar effect could even be accomplished by multiplying all bitcoins in existence with say 100x. So everyone who now owns 1 BTC will suddenly own 100 BTC, with a limt of 2100 million instead of 21 million. There is no difference, but I'm convinced the psychological effect of a change like this would cause massive increase in the price. The evidence is right in front of our eyes, ripple has nowhere the same adaption as bitcoin. What's happening with Ripple is a joke. A couple of months ago they gave away 50K to anybody with a bitcointalk.org account who asked for it. A lot of members bought forum accounts, and have accumulated hundreds of thousand/millions of XRP. Today, $1 buys you roughly 50 Ripples - that means that the Ripple founders just "gave away" $1,000 to everybody who asked for them a couple of months ago, and they are sitting on +$1B potential profit at this very moment - with their buggy software in early Beta, with only a trusted Gateway in the system (Bitstamp) and without having proved anything (there's a lot of security concernes that need to be tested). Obviously the $1,5B market cap is just "theory", because there is no market for 100B Ripples ATM, but it illustrates how crazy is this shit, and how rich the OpenCoin founders can become with their business model. Even if Ripple is "half a failure", they will be all set for life. IMO it's an horrible product from a philosophic point of view (actually it allows anyone to create "money out of thin air" through IOU's, I can foresee epic scams coming, everybody can be a bank running fractional reserve), but it is a BRILLIANT idea for their creators.. It's the ultimate get-rich-quick scheme.... But only for them. As soon as they want to cash out, they will destroy the market - heck, they say the will hold onto 20% of the total currency that will ever be created. And now tell me about the FED. They are the ultimate centralized power. |
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how then does OpenCoin make money?
Through selling the 80% of all XRP and through appreciation of their own 20% of all XRP. selling? they've given away over half the initial issuance in a non random way and iirc Larson said they're going to give away another few billion. all these giveaways, if anything, are going to encourage hoarding by the recipients, much like a lottery ticket. this is fundamentally different from Bitcoin where miners had to work for their mined coins and need to sell enough coins (circulate) to cover costs. this encourages development of the Bitcoin network and economy. what do you plan to do with your Ripples? Extremely well put - that's it. Let's be serious: a couple of months ago everybody who asked got 50,000 XRP. Now those 50,0000 XRP = $1,000. That's a JOKE. And there are another XRP100B in the hands of OpenCoin, waiting to be "given away". Mrbigg: what do you plan to do with your Ripples? |
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holding however billion they are holding onto as a company or private individuals should be a big concern to anyone wishing to adopt. Just the opposite. I'm glad OpenCoin is holding a bunch of XRP, because if they do well then I'll do well (I own XRP as well). This aligns their interests with mine. Excuse me, but this is pure madness. Right now XRP's are being traded at roughly 54 XRP per $1. That's crazy. I mean, 50K XRP where handed out to anybody asking, and many users bought forums accounts to obtain hundred of thousands of XRP's, if not millions. Well, today the 50K XRP's given away to anybody who asked are worth roughly $1,000. Heck, just to try it out, yesterday I bought 10BTC of XRP myself, and that's more or less the quantity of XRP's I got for my REAL btc. That's crazy, pure speculative mania. This would mean that Opencoin has TODAY a potential gain of +$1B (yes, billion), when their software is still in Beta phase, and didn't prove ANYTHING. Of course they could never "cash out" that amount of XRP's at this stage, there's still no market for it. But still, you can see how insane is this. I always said it from the very first moment: Ripple is a genius idea for their creators, is the ultimate get-rich-quick scheme (for them and only for them). But I foresee something in the future: as soon as they want to "cash out", they have such an insame amount of Ripples that they will crash the market with a super small dump. And, in fact, they are the ultimate manipulator in the XRP market: nobody will ever hold as many coins as they do. But they are also creating a monster: all those accumulating hundred of thousands/millions of XRP's will dump them and crash the market sooner or later... I bet that we will see a steady increase in XRP's prices, there will be a bubble, and shortly after Ripple is finally out of Beta and open to the "grand public" there will be massive XRP dumps everywhere, and the last ones in will be left holding the bag. |
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Larson can't have it both ways. if he allows XRP's to eventually all be destroyed, the system will fail. if he changes the rules and allows more XRP's to be printed then effectively he is no better than the Fed.
they are caught in a contradiction.
however holding however billion they are holding onto as a company or private individuals should be a big concern to anyone wishing to adopt. This. |
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Very curious as to what you're going to do with this - as you're against Ripple. But hey, I'll participate.
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That's what I though. I consider ripple to be junk anyways so lets see what this man is doing  Don't you see that he is just brilliantly exposing a fatal flaw in the Ripple system? He is just issuing tons of unbacked debt which will collapse at some point, and the last ones will be left holding the bag with useless IOU's or "Ripple BTC" and 0 real BTC on their gateway's account. Of course you are not supposed to trust any anonymous guy of the internet - you should only trust ONE gateway per currency, which should be your bank for fiat currencies and MtGox/Bitstamp etc. for BTCs. But "you are not supposed to" is a big assumption. People will do en masse exactly what TradeFortress is doing, you know why? Because creating money from thin air is beautiful, and it's a perfect way to scam - we will see epic scams on Ripple. And this is the interwebz, people will "trust" their buddies, because isn't trusting friends what this is all about? |
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People granting trust to anonymous people on the interwebz like there's no tomorrow.
Congratulations Ripple, you are democratizing the very characteristics we hate about the banking system: creating money out of thin air because of a trust and debt based system.
I can foresee huge scams coming, spirals of debt collapsing and as it always happens, the weakest link will be left holding the bag.
And at the end of the day, if Ripple succeed you will be all set for life - because the only thing with a real value inside your system will be XRP's. The rest of "money" in it is just valueless paper, debt, IOU's.... So your Ripples will skyrocket in value. And how many will you hold to? 50 billion? 20 billion? Can we have a concrete figure?
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