Hmm , you can tell you got nothing to do with the energy business.

Have you ever heard of Peak Times, this is the time during the day when the most electricity is being used and utilities charge higher prices.
There are companies that do nothing but store energy during OFFPEAK Times when electricity is cheaper and resell it back to the Utilities during Peak Times.
Those companies profit from the difference in the price, which exceeds any loss from storing it.

Some companies that have solar farms setup have even started placing trailers onsite that contain massive batteries,
they charge these batteries and then have a Semi move them to another location that is paying a higher electricity rate than that location.
Even with the gas used,  the % of power lost, and the truck driver wages, they make a profit off of transferring electricity by semi.

So the storage of Electricity and moving it where they can sell it for a higher price is a big deal and the smart players are starting to make a fortune off it.

True on the danger to onchain,
But causing the segwit transactions to require higher fees than normal onchain transactions could be done with less than 51%.

Untrue on the capacity limit of .16 btc .
If the miners blocked all segwit transactions ,
they destroy access or allow to be stolen by counter-parties the Entire Amount of Bitcoin stored in LN.
All Channels would be at risk upon expiration.


Difference is this ,
if the miners 51% attack their onchain transaction , they kill their own network and their own ability to make money.
(This hurts the Bitcoin Miners directly.)

If the miners 51% ignore all segwit transactions, they kill an Offchain COMPETITOR that was stealing fees that could have been theirs.
(This kills LN and has no effect on their onchain profits, except an increase in their transaction fees.)
(If you ran a Business and you could put your competitor out of business next door by merely ignoring them,
therefore increasing your own Business Profit and assuring market share, you be kind of stupid not to ignore them.)

Jihan & other onchain miners are alot of things, stupid is not one of them.

FYI:
I now so dub this potential LN Flaw: The 51% Ignore Segwit Attack

The fact they mined 4 blocks in a row , and ignored all segwit transactions escapes you.

Your entire LN network is depending on the ONChain Miners to include segwit transactions, if they do the unthinkable to you and just ignore all segwit transactions , they can kill their offchain competitor without breaking a sweat.

Whether it was done on purpose or accident , the truth is now apparent,
the Onchain Miners can kill LN at any point they so choose and you can't stop them, without a Hard Fork, which they won't agree too.  

It is now LN Most Major Flaw, because at some point transactions fees will matter more and more to the Bitcoin Miners with each halving.

Enjoy your LN house of cards, by the way Jihan and 3 others can set it on fire anytime they like.    

Reddit Source : https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/9sex11/jihan_no_longer_includes_segwit_transactions_last/

---

No argument there allowing the miners to pick and choose which transactions are included per block
that can be used against the users was always a bad idea instead of just processing all available transactions that would fit.
But that was added by the bitcore dev team, and the only way they can remove it is a Hard Fork, but that also destroys the fee structure almost guaranteeing spam transaction could clog and kill the onchain network without fee increases to prevent it.
In the meantime they can use it to kill the LN offchain network, and so it becomes The Major Flaw in LN!

 

(Both Money Transmitters & Banks follow "Full KYC/AML" regulations . )
For those like doomad that don't know.

---

New Flaw in LN Network ,

Wu & Antpool have just recently started refusing to include segwit transactions in their blocks.
Since they are a major player this can delay the onchain redemption of bitcoins and
INCREASE the potential for the LN funds to be stolen by a counter-party.
* Interestingly enough they could potentially cause segwit transactions to cost more than normal onchain transactions. *  
* As LN begins stealing more transaction fees from the onchain miners, you can almost guarantee the other onchain miners will follow suit to protect their transaction fee profit from the LN offchain network. *

If more miners join them and they reach 51%, they can effectively kill the LN offchain network!

FYI:
It is a brilliant move on the part of Wu, to eventually make segwit no longer cost effective compared to the normal onchain transactions.
Effectively killing his offchain competition for bitcoin transaction fees.
The only real question is how long before the other bitcoin onchain miners get smart and follow his lead.
(As their monetary best interest is in onchain fees and not offchain fees which they see no profit.)

* No one can stop him unless, there is a Hard Fork to take away the miner's ability to pick transactions. *
Good Luck with that. 

I choose mine on the coin specs and my own proprietary economic calculations without needing someone to hand hold me when I do so,
(I also have not hid the fact my favorite is ZEIT, but others may prefer different specs.)

I expect other investors to do the same, because at the end of the day it is their money and their choice.

If they are too stupid to make up their own mind like wind fury, they really have no business in crypto speculation.


You are missing the point , Whales can Buy a PoS coin , but the Whales Have to Sell them to make a PROFIT.
That act of selling decrease their control over the network immediately.

When your Bitcoin Miner sells all of his useless bitcoins , he gives up No control of the network or it's transactions or fee structure whatsoever.

Plus you PoW guys really seem to miss the point a Whale in PoS does not have Constant Power to block transactions where as  Miner Whales can block transactions indefinitely, where as in PoS , they can not.

* Your PoW is proof of stake line is beyond nonsense, PoW is not staking energy , PoW is Wasting Energy
Plus in a true Proof of Stake Network, their is a dormant period after staking, their is NO dormant period in PoW.
(Their is No increase in transaction performance with PoW increased energy usage, only more Wasted Energy to accomplish the same limited transaction amount. Bitcoin is not secured by electricity as many foolishly believe , it is secured by the Chinese miners that dominate ~70% of the mining, no different than the past two years, when the energy requirement were much lower 2 years ago.)
The Security in Bitcoin is Nothing More than the Collusion of a few Chinese Miners!
The Energy waste is Just Waste nothing else!


You are right PoS is a Closed System, (That is an advantage not a disadvantage.)
that means you are literally more invested in it , than in any PoW coin, because you can always mine another coin with similiar algo.
So if you do harm to your PoS network , you wipe out your entire investment where as a PoW miner can harm his network and just mine another coin.

*IE:  Mr. Wu has just started refusing all segwit transactions in AntPool's Bitcoin Blocks ,
this delays LN onchain redemption and increases the danger bitcoins being stolen thru the LN network, and their is nothing you can do to stop him.
You could buy all of the bitcoins in existence and he would still be your Master as you are utterly dependent on him for transactions.
If only a few others join him and they reach 51%, they can kill the LN network and their is nothing you can do to stop them.
(Suggest changing Algo and see how far you get.)  
Since Mr. Wu is mainly support Bcash over bitcoin, his concern for the bitcoin/LN network is decreasing per day.
If Bitcoin was a PoS only coin, he would never do the above as it could wipe out his entire investment,
yet with PoW he can hamper bitcoin and care little as he is supporting bcash more.  

Any low inflation PoS coin,

go look for one that you personally like and quit being a dumbass.
(Low Inflation rates vary from 5% down to less than 1%, take your pick.)

If you are so stupid you believe going with a Low inflation PoS coin gives them perpetual power over you then

1. You are a dumbass , because if they sell their coins, their so called perpetual power is diminished since they have to sell from their principle.
  
2.  You can stick with your Bitcoin , where the Few Elite Chinese Miners actually do have perpetual power over the network and it's users.
    (Funny how the fact you are literally the Chinese Miners bitch does not bother you in the least.)

3.  Stick with Fiat and your Government elected overlords.


For people that want freedom, Proof of Stake is the only game in town , because it is the only one where you can still confirm your own transactions.

FYI:
When a person buys a Low inflation PoS coin , they gain power in that specific network , when they sell coins they decrease their power in that network,
when you buy bitcoins or a PoW coin , you Gain NO Power in that network as transaction confirmation and fee price is always controlled by the miners.
(Of which only the Richest Elite can afford warehouses full of ASICS and the insane energy waste that comes with them.)

* Also in a PoS network coins go dormant after staking which give others stakers an increased opportunity to stake coins and add transactions,
there is nothing similar in a PoW network, in a PoW network their is no dormancy of ASICS to give others a chance. *
 

There is a Reason your Nickname is Dumbmad.  



Sorry the truth hurts you, but it would not if you were not a bitcoin fanatic that can't tell the difference between
a product and a deity.  

The Blue letters has been proven to increase the amount of the brain used when read,
I am literally trying to make you use more of your brain, when you see me use blue, trying to help you think and not repeat useless hype.
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/02/090205142143.htm

Daily Market movements are irrelevant in the long term evolution of a product.
Thinking a momentary price fluctuation matters is a fallacy.    
GIGO = Garbage In Garbage Out

No worries, ZEITCOIN will be around no matter what happens with the rest.
It can survive literally anything and it's network will march on.  

There are plenty of Proof of Stake coins for others to choose their favorite.


FYI:
Here is a comparison to show
Gaming Industry :  Atari was the 1st major player
Crypto  Industry :  Bitcoin was the 1st major player

Atari Lifespan   : 1972–1984
Bitcoin Lifespan: 2009-2022
*No Guarantee it will survive that long.*

A normal product lifespan is ~10 years before a newer faster more improved model take over.

By your false belief system , Atari should still be the #1 Game Console and yet it is not
Bitcoin will also not be the #1 coin by 2022.  

It is about product cycles not about false belief systems.

 

Any Low Inflation PoS Coin can replace Bitcoin, take your pick.
In Time, they will all be higher on CMK than bitcoin. 

FYI:
Staking is the consensus, the earning more coins is a program setting.
Definable by your code, whether anything is earned at all.
Staking reward can always be set to zero, so no coins are earned thru staking.
You could always make staking for a % of time a requirement to send or receive coins.
IE:  Wallet has to attempt to stake for 1 day or 1 week to be able to send /receive coins for 1 hour.

However you ask for other consensus methods
https://hackernoon.com/a-hitchhikers-guide-to-consensus-algorithms-d81aae3eb0e3
Proof-of-Authority (PoA) 
Proof-of-Weight (PoWeight)
Byzantine Fault Tolerance (BFT) — Siege the blockchain!
Directed Acyclic Graphs (DAGs) — aka the Blockchain Killers!

https://www.newgenapps.com/blog/8-blockchain-consensus-mechanisms-and-benefits
Proof of Importance:
Proof of Elapsed Time:
Proof of Identity:
Proof of Burn:

Good Luck.

https://oxt.me/charts

Click on Segwit usage, Site Reported # is Less than 40% for October.

I guess the part about the danger of being in LN, if bitcoin onchain transactions is maxed out eluded you.

With that kind of research you'll be a Millionaire in no time, if you started off as a Billionaire.  

FYI:
Franky1 claims that 40% is really only ~10%

FYI2:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/9sex11/jihan_no_longer_includes_segwit_transactions_last/
Hmm,
Antpool earned 12.5 bitcoins for finding a block , making the transaction fees chump change to them since it was so low.
If they start blocking all segwit transactions from their blocks , (they can delay segwit transactions)
they could increase the danger to LN when people need to cash out onchain,
increasing the risk LN funds can be stolen.  Interesting to say the least.

That is where you are misinformed, there are some alts that will skyrocket during a bitcoin crash.
Your problem is you think crypto depends on bitcoin, you are wrong ,
just as the car market does not still depend on the Ford Model A, crypto no longer needs bitcoin.
It has grown larger than a single coin.




If Fear is all you have as an excuse, then feel free to give up until PoW crashes and burns.

Proof of Stake can OutScale Bitcoin , about every Altcoin created after since Bitcoin OutScales Bitcoin. 

It is an irritant trying to have a logical conversation and all I get back is an emotional response of you are frighten, or devs are scared.   

Again 5 years and None of the Bogeyman fairly tales against PoS have occurred.
Look if you want to live in fear , your call.

There are plenty of PoS Devs that are not frighten by falsehoods spread by the bitcoin hype crowd.
They have done extensive research , and none of them have the slightest fear in the falsehoods put out by ignorant fearmongers.

I got better things to do than listen to how you are too fearful about PoS.

Those of us without fear shall push on, and the rest of you can hide and cower where you think it is safe.

FYI:
Fortune Favors the Bold , not the fearful!

Good Luck in your Course.

Clarifying:

I am not talking about transactions fees , I am talking about the Bitcoin Market Price.

The production cost to make a Bitcoin is ~$3000 last I checked.
(This includes the warehouse/asics/Electricity input costs needed to Break Even.)

If the market price falls below that input cost of ~$3000, say only $1500.
That means with every new bitcoin block created the miners loses $1500 per coin which is $18750 (12.5 coins per block)
, and that is if the miner is selling every bitcoin he makes.

Which means the big players will hoard bitcoin and quit selling it as they have bigger pockets,
but even they can not hold out for long losing $2.7 Million Dollars per day or $81 Million Dollars per Month.

When too many miners drop out, the network Hash drops,
(having a difficulty only reset every 2 weeks is really a security vulnerability that has never been fixed, Most Alts reset Difficulty after every block.)
When the Hash drops too low , blocks are only found every few days, so the normal 2 weeks could take months to complete.
During this time almost no one will be able to get a transaction into the blockchain as onchain transaction capacity will be severely diminished.
Where you used to have potential of 144 x 1.7mb blocks full of transaction per day , you may only have 10 blocks or less.

Only chances for recovery would be
1.  The other miners start mining at a loss losing millions per day, doubtful as low prices is why they stopped.
2.  Wait months for it to work it out , doubtful everyone will switch to another crypto.
3.  The Bitcoin Dev team will have to reset the difficulty with a fork , which will cause a crises in confidence and hurt BTC price even more.


Do you now see the problem with having PoW insane input costs?
During even just a short market lull of 2 or 3 months,
bitcoin very survival comes into question, with no guarantee it will last long enough for the price to recover.

I hear alot of fear in your voice about Proof of Stake, it has been around since 2013 and so far none of the fairly tales about it's easy destruction have been accomplished by anyone.  Over 5 years and no one has performed a attack that destroys the Proof of Stake Consensus , it all been falsehoods and lies about how easy PoS is to destroy. PoW is only 4 years older and it's centralization & energy waste failure are paramount and undeniable to all but the bitcoin fanatics that never recognize any of it's failures  .

There are many PoS Only coins with multi-million markets caps and no one has been able to destroy one of them.  
Blackcoin / Ardor / and Multiple others

Which should point out to an observing mind , how weak Bitcoin and PoW consensus truly are.
A Massive Price drop can kill bitcoin due to it's insane input costs.

A Massive Price drop in a low inflation PoS coin is nothing more than a buying opportunity to increase your staking capacity.  
ie: PoS is superior to PoW in Survive ability.

LN is the worst place to be , if bitcoin suffers a massive spam attack,
as their is a vulnerability if the ONCHAIN does not have enough transaction capacity.

https://bitcoinmagazine.com/articles/here-s-how-bitcoin-s-lightning-network-could-fail-1467736127/

LN is no solution to bitcoin's onchain limits, if those onchain limits are pushed to the max,
in fact it would make matters worse if LN users starting closing channels as the onchain fees increase.
Segwit only gave a ~1.7 megabyte size increase from the 1 megabyte.
Using LN is only safe, if bitcoin onchain limits are not being exceeded.

Which is why using litecoin with LN is safer than using bitcoin with LN, as litecoin has onchain transaction capacity to spare.
*Onchain Capacity Matters*

I think you really have yet to see lows, below $3000 will be low.

~$6500 is kind of a balance on a cliff, and we don't yet know if it will hold.
Time will tell.

Answer is No.
Unless you meet the following criteria  

1.  Can get Venture Capitalist to donate millions of dollars to you for a % of the bitcoin mined

Odds are you won't really make any money off of bitcoin mining, but will earn more keeping a % of the VC money as an administrator fee.

It is why you see companies offer cloud mining , they make more money off of the suckers that pay them to mine bitcoin,
than off of mining bitcoins.  

PoW mining is for chumps and VCs that can throw away millions and not miss it.

A Proof of Work coin (ie: bitcoin) will die , when the cost to maintain it's Network exceeds the market price.
Since coins like bitcoin have such high input cost ~$3000 to generate a bitcoin, it has a very short time frame it could survive with a lower price.
Most likely less than 2 months before the miners could no longer afford to maintain it at a loss.

In Contrast,
A Proof of Stake coin will only die, when the majority of stake holder lose faith and stop staking.
Due to the incredible energy & cost efficiency of PoS, a PoS only network can be maintained for an indefinite time period no matter how low the price goes.

Expensive PoW Networks requires millions per month just to maintain their network.

PoS Networks can be maintained for less than $2000 per month.

The Amazing thing is PoS networks can easily match or exceed the transaction capacity of PoW networks.  
PoS => Efficiency
PoW=> Waste