Your opinions on me are irrelevant. Show me bitcoins given you're the one claiming they exist. When someone says they own bitcoins, all they are able to show are numbers next to their address. These numbers supposedly express the quantity of their coins. But where are the coins? Where are the bitcoins? I examined the Satoshi's system and I didn't find them. You claim they exist. So where are they?
As I said before, there are no physical Bitcoins. They are digital data stored on a public ledger. And that's it. You can't argue that something doesn't exist just because you can't see it. You're pretty pathetic with this generic phrases. You say bitcons are "digital data stored on a public ledger". But what is stored are addresses and numbers. So your claim is factually incorrect. There are no bitcoins on a public ledger. You repeatedly claim that bitcoins exist and then all you are doing is showing address with the supposed quantities of bitcoins. But not bitcoins themselves. So, where are they? You're claiming they exist, which is why you're required to support your claim. |
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Everything that you just said are things irrelevant for the facts I have presented here. The only thing you're supposed to do, if you're replying to my posts, is to prove the existence of Bitcoin. You are one of those who claim Bitcoin exists. Your colleagues tried to prove the existence of Bitcoin, but I refuted all their arguments. Then you came with opinions about me and false interpretation of one of my refutations. So there's no substance in your replies that I could address. I don't care about your magazines or opinions. I care only about facts and arguments.
Man, you just won't give up, will you? For the bold part, you refuted nothing. You are just saying that Bitcoin does not exist without proving anything. When someone asks you a question you don't have the answer to, you ignore that question or you state it has nothing to do with this thread. Your opinions on me are irrelevant. Show me bitcoins given you're the one claiming they exist. When someone says they own bitcoins, all they are able to show are numbers next to their address. These numbers supposedly express the quantity of their coins. But where are the coins? Where are the bitcoins? I examined the Satoshi's system and I didn't find them. You claim they exist. So where are they? |
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Well, you can talk about evasion all you like. It's just you opinion. Completely irrelevant for the topic at hand. And like I already said, I am presenting no arguments here, but only facts. I am also refuting your rationalizations for denying the facts.
It's not really an "opinion" if anyone can arrive at the same conclusion. It is literally on display for anyone to read in black and white within this thread. It does seem that you are misunderstanding some key elements of bitcoin and of digital technology in general, and maybe this is why you arrive at your odd conclusions. I am not really interested in going through what all of those key facets are, but here is recent article that hits upon those key aspects of what makes bitcoin work and give it value. It might help you some: https://bitcoinmagazine.com/culture/why-bitcoin-has-no-competition. The only thing you're supposed to do, if you're replying to my posts, is to prove the existence of Bitcoin. You are one of those who claim Bitcoin exists. Your colleagues tried to prove the existence of Bitcoin, but I refuted all their arguments. Then you came with opinions about me and false interpretation of one of my refutations. So there's no substance in your replies that I could address. I don't care about your magazines or opinions. I care only about facts and arguments. Wo, that is a really bizarre comment, since the only things I have mentioned are the properties of bitcoin, the elements that you have missed, etc. These are also things that others have also posted in these comments. And, since you actively side step and ignore these elements of bitcoin I had to add about your constant evasion of these basic things, and so noticing this evasion is a big part of this thread. There seem to be too many elements that you are ignoring, I don't have time to go through all of them, I have other things to do, and this is why I passed along that article. If you'd read it you would learn some things that you are completely missing. Or, like I already mentioned, and I repeat, it would seem you are actively ignoring these elements of bitcoin that I and others have passed along within this thread. You say that you only care about "facts and arguments", but you only seem to ignore "facts and arguments". It would seem that this is really your main dilemma. Elements of bitcoin? First you must show bitcoin instead of refering to the system that just stores and protects numbers according to some cryptographic protocols. You must show the thing that a person supposedly bought in the quantity indicated by a number attached to their address. People are not buying nodes, blockchain, protocols or other elements of Satoshi's system. But supposedly some coins called Bitcoins. Where are they? So, show me bitcoin and not your opinion about me. Nobody cares about your opinions on forum users. |
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Well, you can talk about evasion all you like. It's just you opinion. Completely irrelevant for the topic at hand. And like I already said, I am presenting no arguments here, but only facts. I am also refuting your rationalizations for denying the facts.
It's not really an "opinion" if anyone can arrive at the same conclusion. It is literally on display for anyone to read in black and white within this thread. It does seem that you are misunderstanding some key elements of bitcoin and of digital technology in general, and maybe this is why you arrive at your odd conclusions. I am not really interested in going through what all of those key facets are, but here is recent article that hits upon those key aspects of what makes bitcoin work and give it value. It might help you some: https://bitcoinmagazine.com/culture/why-bitcoin-has-no-competition Everything that you just said are things irrelevant for the facts I have presented here. The only thing you're supposed to do, if you're replying to my posts, is to prove the existence of Bitcoin. You are one of those who claim Bitcoin exists. Your colleagues tried to prove the existence of Bitcoin, but I refuted all their arguments. Then you came with opinions about me and false interpretation of one of my refutations. So there's no substance in your replies that I could address. I don't care about your magazines or opinions. I care only about facts and arguments. |
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[snip] Here is a lesson for you: evasion The action of evading something. The avoiding of an argument, accusation, question, or the like, as by a subterfuge. Example: "their adroit evasion of almost all questions". This is a tactic you have used throughout this thread. Here is an example: Iron Fist asks, repeatedly: But I did not sell my address in the system. I still own the address.
To say "nothing" cannot be factually correct, because logic dictates that I obviously sold something. I owned "something" that, after the sale, I no longer own. I ask you again, what did I sell?
Here you evade, ignore, then finally give a nonsensical answer (more evasion). You asked what you own. You own an address. Like everyone that installed a wallet application. That's all that you own. Now, whatever playing with the numbers the system performs around your address doesn't make you an owner of something.
... and the following nonsensical answer completely misses the whole point of bitcoin, and how it works, that is, that it is able to make a digital unit unreproducible. This is something new in the information age. Among other things, this ability to make a digital unit uncopyable gave bitcoin its initial value (as opposed to other previous attempts at digital money). My answer to you is: nothing. You sold nothing. Take this analogy. I write down my name and "1 Zeus" next to it. I now have "something" associated with my name. I go to my neighbor, I exchange it for fiat currency (for $ 44k) by writing down his name and "1 Zeus", and by writing down my name and "0 Zeus" next to it. Now I don't have that "something" anymore. All I have left is just my name. By definition, this process is called sales. My question to you, what did I sell?
... and then there the other instance of evasion where you simply say I am not interested in your fantasies. Sorry. That is the biggest tell that you know you can't answer that question, because paying any attention to answering their question shows that you simply got it wrong. A "tell" is something that a person does to unknowingly indicate the strength of their hand or what one of their future actions might be. Why do you think that your interpretation of this discussion means anything? I don't care what you think about me. This is the discussion about the non-existence of bitcoin. This is just more evasion. ... It does seem that the repetition of evasion happens a lot in this thread. Delineating the evasion in your comments is not about "you". Evasion happens when it is difficult to hide from the obvious: that you have no argument, no concepts to stand on, then evasion is all that is left. Well, you can talk about evasion all you like. It's just you opinion. Completely irrelevant for the topic at hand. And like I already said, I am presenting no arguments here, but only facts. I am also refuting your rationalizations for denying the facts. |
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It's a very sad situation when you don't realize that you're the one having problems. I have said to you multiple times that I am referring to entries next to addresses. These entries are what changes when people supposedly buy Bitcoin. I am simply telling you that these entries are fake because no THING with the quantities indicated with this entries exists in the possession of these "buyers".
And what you do? You completely ignore the entries, and keep talking about the code that manages the entries. If entry in my brokerage account says 100 TSLA, I don't care about the system that make this entry to appear on the screen. What I care are shares in the company. Company is the THING. That's what I buy, and not the brokerage system that manages data. So, whers the THING indicated with the entry 10 BTC people supposedly buy? That's of course a rhetorical question. No such THING exists in the Satoshi's system.
Me and 100 million other Bitcoin users are having problems? Apple CEO, Twitter founder, few presidents, governments, stock exchanges, investment banks, financial supervisors, brick and mortar banks, thousands of companies around the world... We don't realize we are having problems? Well lucky me that I met you!  I'm sure to tell everyone from now on that don't listen to those hundred of millions of people, companies, investors etc. and don't you dare to verify anything about Bitcoin from its source code because this one guy in the internet says they are all wrong and he knows the truth! Well, you're free to think or tell people whatever you want. But that won't make bitcoin to appear. Btw, here's a quick lesson for you: An argumentum ad populum is an argument, often emotionally laden, that claims a conclusion is true because most, all, or even an elite group people irrelevantly think, believe, or feel that it is. An argumentum ad crumenam argument, also known as an argument to the purse, is the informal fallacy of concluding that a statement is correct because the speaker is rich (or that a statement is incorrect because the speaker is poor). The appeal to wealth fallacy is committed by any argument that assumes that someone or something is better simply because they are wealthier or more expensive. Here is a lesson for you: evasion The action of evading something. The avoiding of an argument, accusation, question, or the like, as by a subterfuge. Example: "their adroit evasion of almost all questions". This is a tactic you have used throughout this thread. Here is an example: Iron Fist asks, repeatedly: But I did not sell my address in the system. I still own the address.
To say "nothing" cannot be factually correct, because logic dictates that I obviously sold something. I owned "something" that, after the sale, I no longer own. I ask you again, what did I sell?
Here you evade, ignore, then finally give a nonsensical answer (more evasion). You asked what you own. You own an address. Like everyone that installed a wallet application. That's all that you own. Now, whatever playing with the numbers the system performs around your address doesn't make you an owner of something.
... and the following nonsensical answer completely misses the whole point of bitcoin, and how it works, that is, that it is able to make a digital unit unreproducible. This is something new in the information age. Among other things, this ability to make a digital unit uncopyable gave bitcoin its initial value (as opposed to other previous attempts at digital money). My answer to you is: nothing. You sold nothing. Take this analogy. I write down my name and "1 Zeus" next to it. I now have "something" associated with my name. I go to my neighbor, I exchange it for fiat currency (for $ 44k) by writing down his name and "1 Zeus", and by writing down my name and "0 Zeus" next to it. Now I don't have that "something" anymore. All I have left is just my name. By definition, this process is called sales. My question to you, what did I sell?
... and then there the other instance of evasion where you simply say I am not interested in your fantasies. Sorry. That is the biggest tell that you know you can't answer that question, because paying any attention to answering their question shows that you simply got it wrong. A "tell" is something that a person does to unknowingly indicate the strength of their hand or what one of their future actions might be. Why do you think that your interpretation of this discussion means anything? I don't care what you think about me. This is the discussion about the non-existence of bitcoin. |
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It's a very sad situation when you don't realize that you're the one having problems. I have said to you multiple times that I am referring to entries next to addresses. These entries are what changes when people supposedly buy Bitcoin. I am simply telling you that these entries are fake because no THING with the quantities indicated with this entries exists in the possession of these "buyers".
And what you do? You completely ignore the entries, and keep talking about the code that manages the entries. If entry in my brokerage account says 100 TSLA, I don't care about the system that make this entry to appear on the screen. What I care are shares in the company. Company is the THING. That's what I buy, and not the brokerage system that manages data. So, whers the THING indicated with the entry 10 BTC people supposedly buy? That's of course a rhetorical question. No such THING exists in the Satoshi's system.
Me and 100 million other Bitcoin users are having problems? Apple CEO, Twitter founder, few presidents, governments, stock exchanges, investment banks, financial supervisors, brick and mortar banks, thousands of companies around the world... We don't realize we are having problems? Well lucky me that I met you! I'm sure to tell everyone from now on that don't listen to those hundred of millions of people, companies, investors etc. and don't you dare to verify anything about Bitcoin from its source code because this one guy in the internet says they are all wrong and he knows the truth! Well, you're free to think or tell people whatever you want. But that won't make bitcoin to appear. Btw, here's a quick lesson for you: An argumentum ad populum is an argument, often emotionally laden, that claims a conclusion is true because most, all, or even an elite group people irrelevantly think, believe, or feel that it is. An argumentum ad crumenam argument, also known as an argument to the purse, is the informal fallacy of concluding that a statement is correct because the speaker is rich (or that a statement is incorrect because the speaker is poor). The appeal to wealth fallacy is committed by any argument that assumes that someone or something is better simply because they are wealthier or more expensive. |
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I see no code of Bitcoin. I see Satoshi's code that manipulates with numbers. You claim that somewhere in that some revolutionary digital currency exists and that when you pay half a million dollars you get 10 pieces of it. But you provided zero evidence for your claim. All you do is talking about the code, about the system. You proved nothing. Because bitcoin doesn't exist.
So just to check again if I understand you correctly. 1. You know that Bitcoin works how it's source code tells it to work. You just for some reason want to call Bitcoin's source code as "Satoshi's code". Even though it is not all coded by Mr. Nakamoto and even when he does not have any power to change the code and even when he does not have any kind of ownership over it. 2. You don't want to check the source code with your own eyes, not even when you are being told that the code verifies and proves that eveything said about Bitcoin is true. So this kind of ends the whole conversation. You wanted proof but you are not willing to look at it. Ok, live in your alternative universe. No one cares, including Bitcoin. Tick tock next block, it just keeps working in the internet just how it is coded to work. No matter what you say or believe. Have a happy rest of your life. Might be a sad one when every bit of news about Bitcoin, about it's price and about it's adoption going forward is an attack against your beliefs. It's a very sad situation when you don't realize that you're the one having problems. I have said to you multiple times that I am referring to entries next to addresses. These entries are what changes when people supposedly buy Bitcoin. I am simply telling you that these entries are fake because no THING with the quantities indicated with this entries exists in the possession of these "buyers". And what you do? You completely ignore the entries, and keep talking about the code that manages the entries. If entry in my brokerage account says 100 TSLA, I don't care about the system that make this entry to appear on the screen. What I care are shares in the company. Company is the THING. That's what I bought, and not the brokerage system that manages data. So, where's the THING indicated with the entry 10 BTC, that people supposedly buy? That's of course a rhetorical question. No such THING exists in the Satoshi's system. |
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You're again twisting things around. When people say they are buying bitcoin they don't say they are buying some "open source" code. Are you capable of comprehending the difference between the system and the entries next to addresses?
Dude, just answer the question. Don't be a dick. What kind of proof are you looking for if you are not willing to check the code of Bitcoin with your own eyes? I see no code of Bitcoin. I see Satoshi's code that manipulates with numbers. You claim that somewhere in that some revolutionary digital currency exists and that when you pay half a million dollars you get 10 pieces of it. But you provided zero evidence for your claim. All you do is talking about the code, about the system. You proved nothing. Because bitcoin doesn't exist. |
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Digital currency is a generic phrase like God. You must prove that digital currency actually exists. But of course, we know that this is impossible.
So are you saying that anything digital does not exist or are you saying that nothing digital can be used as a payment in transactions? I have this beautiful picture I just made in Paint with my computer. I saved it in cloud service Dropbox. Does that picture I can see in my computer screen exist or is it only my imagination? To say that Bitcoin is digital you would first have to prove it exists. Like applications, ebooks, documents, animations, pictures, and other digital products exist. There's an enormous amount of digital products out there. Bitcoin is nowhere to be found. So when you say it's digital you're imagining things. Ok. So my conclusion is that you do not understand what digital things means. Because all of those are in the end lines of code and you are not willing to see the proof. Bitcoin is great because it is not closed, hidden, secret code in the servers of some private company. It is open source so anyone can verify it exists and works just like people tell you. What kind of proof are you looking for if you are not willing to check the code of Bitcoin with your own eyes? You're again twisting things around. When people say they are buying bitcoin they don't say they are buying some "open source" code. Are you capable of comprehending the difference between the system and the entries next to addresses? What you conclude is your problem. All I do here is presenting facts. |
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Digital currency is a generic phrase like God. You must prove that digital currency actually exists. But of course, we know that this is impossible.
So are you saying that anything digital does not exist or are you saying that nothing digital can be used as a payment in transactions? I have this beautiful picture I just made in Paint with my computer. I saved it in cloud service Dropbox. Does that picture I can see in my computer screen exist or is it only my imagination? To say that Bitcoin is digital you would first have to prove it exists. Like applications, ebooks, documents, animations, pictures, and other digital products exist. There's an enormous amount of digital products out there. Bitcoin is nowhere to be found. So when you say it's digital you're imagining things. |
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Ok. Now you're saying that people are not actually buying numbers. So, what things in the quantity of 10 did a guy that spent $440K to have number 10 in the Satoshi's system, actually bought?
They bought digital currency called Bitcoin. A digital money that exists only in the internet, in the Bitcoin blockchain which keeps tabs on who owns what of this digital money. They bought ownership of those Bitcoins included in the transaction. So after the transaction is verified by the network, the change of ownership will be updated to the blockchain. And again, it is not Satoshi's or anyone elses system. Satoshi Nakamoto wrote the whitepaper and started the coding work and then left the project and gave it to many other coders to complete. No one owns the network as it is decentralized and and ran by thousands of computers across the planet. Just tell me if these digital things are too difficult for you to understand and we can go back to talk about "numbers" or even "lollipops" if that makes it easier for you to comprehend. Digital currency is a generic phrase like God. You must prove that digital currency actually exists. But of course, we know that this is impossible. Your words are like saying: "they bought the supreme deity called Zeus". In the blockchain we se neither Bitcoin nor Zeus, but only numbers and addresses. Nodes send and receive neither Bitcoin nor Zeus, but numbers in the network. So no digital currency with the name Bitcoin exists. It's just a myth. It exists only in your fantasy. What we actually have are intangible currencies in the banking system that are called liabilities. Liabilities in the US banking system are called USD. Liabilities in the Australian banking system are called AUD. And so on. So these are the currencies. And not your fictional Bitcoin. It's time for you to finally accept the reality. But if you're not ready yet it's Ok. You'll accepted it eventually. |
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Wait a minute. You people have been saying all along that bitcoin is not a number. And now you're saying: "people buy the numbers". Hahaha. You proved me right again. You people are twisting everything around like crazy. It's impossible to have rational discussion with you. Btw, it's irrational to buy numbers. Numbers are free to use. They are not copyrighted. The fact that you cannot counterfeit them is like fact that you can't conterfit the speed of light. The speed of light is what it is. The number next to your address is what it is. No coins, tokens, money, asset, or whatever exist in your possession because numbers, or the speed of light, cannot be counterfeited. Paying even a dime for a number is a nonsense.
Like I said, maybe we need to talk to you like a kid. And like I said, numbers have only value as Bitcoin if they are included in the Bitcoin blockchain in the first place. The system recognizes if some number you create belongs to the network or not. You are sounding more and more bitter by every message. Do you still think that you can get anyone here to believe you when at the same time they can verify from the source code that you are lying? If Snowshows brain is not big enough to understand more complex things than "numbers", then lets talk about numbers. Let's talk about this in a child's way.
Bitcoin network has limited amounts of numbers. The whole network exists only in internet as digital. Anybody can buy some of those numbers and if the purchase is made inside of the network, then the ownership of those numbers gets rewritten for that person. The buyer does not receive anything physical, just the change of ownership gets written in the digital book keeping list of who owns what of those numbers.
Kid claims that you can just make your own numbers and they would be as valuable as those numbers in the Bitcoin network. That is incorrect because those numbers he created are just random numbers. They are not inclueded in the Bitcoin book keeping called blockchain. Kid cannot put or send his fake numbers to the Bitcoin book because Bitcoin book does not accept any other numbers than the ones it was created with. You can't add new numbers into it as it has been coded to work with only the exact 21 million numbers which were in the system originally.
Can you touch the numbers? No. They exist only in the internet. They are listed there. It is a closed system with rules that everyone can verify. Anyone can buy part of those numbers if someone who owns them is willing to sell. But you can't counterfeit or copy the numbers because only the original numbers exists in the system and the system recognizes if you own any of those numbers or not.
If there are kids in this world who has similar brain than Snowshow, maybe this will help you understand how Bitcoin works.
Ok. Now you're saying that people are not actually buying numbers. Hahaha. You're contradicting yourself like crazy. But let's play this game. So, what things in the quantity of 10 did a guy that spent $440K to have number 10 in the Satoshi's system, actually bought? Where are these things and how do they look? |
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Why does your reasoning fail at such a simple level? You're talking about some Satoshi's system, banking system, liabilities and god knows what else. I'm not interested in those things. I just have one simple question for you.
Please bear with me as I explain slowly. I had "something" associated with my address. I went to an online exchange, I exchanged it for fiat currency (for $ 44k at current exchange rates), and now I don't have that "something" anymore. All I have left is just a address. By definition, this process is called sales. My question to you, what did I sell?
My answer to you is: nothing. You sold nothing. The answer makes no logical sense, however. Why can I sell "nothing" but you can't? Take this analogy. I write down my name and "1 Zeus" next to it. I now have "something" associated with my name. I go to my neighbor, I exchange it for fiat currency (for $ 44k) by writing down his name and "1 Zeus", and by writing down my name and "0 Zeus" next to it. Now I don't have that "something" anymore. All I have left is just my name. By definition, this process is called sales. My question to you, what did I sell?
Your analogy has one major flaw. You can write "1 Zeus" next to your name again (after the sale), and it will be indistinguishable from the original record, while I can't simply write 1 BTC next to my address. Do you see the difference? Irrelevant. I am not asking you what I can do in the future. I am asking what did I sell in the past? |
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Stop with the nonsense. When someone says that they bought bitcoin they are not saying that they bought "the source code of Bitcoin" or "blockchain" or "network" of nodes. They're saying they bought coins, tokens, digital money, digital assets... in the quantity that is written next to their address. I have proved to you that this is factually incorrect. They bought nothing. Numbers are fake. I didn't say unverified. I said fake in a sense that no thing exists in the quantity that this number indicates. So stop with this rhetorical tricks. You cannot fool anyone here.
I have no need to fool anyone because what I tell you can be verified from the open source code of Bitcoin. Do you know how to read code? No one has said people buy the source code or blockchain. People buy the numbers listed in the Bitcoin book called blackchain. Numbers that you can't copy or counterfeit. The numbers are real and can be verified from the source code. You can't change that by crying. How does that make you feel? Will you be more happy or bitter if Bitcoin is 50 x more valuable, used in 50 x amount of companies around the world and it has 50 x more users in 10-20 years? Wait a minute. You people have been saying all along that bitcoin is not a number. And now you're saying: "people buy the numbers". Hahaha. You proved me right again. You people are twisting everything around like crazy. It's impossible to have rational discussion with you. Btw, it's irrational to buy numbers. Numbers are free to use. They are not copyrighted. The fact that you cannot counterfeit them is like a fact that you can't conterfit the speed of light. The speed of light is what it is. The number next to your address is what it is. No coins, tokens, money, asset, or whatever exist in your possession because numbers, or the speed of light, cannot be counterfeited. Paying even a dime for a number is a nonsense. |
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If Snowshows brain is not big enough to understand more complex things than "numbers", then lets talk about numbers. Let's talk about this in a child's way.
Bitcoin network has limited amounts of numbers. The whole network exists only in internet as digital. Anybody can buy some of those numbers and if the purchase is made inside of the network, then the ownership of those numbers gets rewritten for that person. The buyer does not receive anything physical, just the change of ownership gets written in the digital book keeping list of who owns what of those numbers.
Kid claims that you can just make your own numbers and they would be as valuable as those numbers in the Bitcoin network. That is incorrect because those numbers he created are just random numbers. They are not inclueded in the Bitcoin book keeping called blockchain. Kid cannot put or send his fake numbers to the Bitcoin book because Bitcoin book does not accept any other numbers than the ones it was created with. You can't add new numbers into it as it has been coded to work with only the exact 21 million numbers which were in the system originally.
Can you touch the numbers? No. They exist only in the internet. They are listed there. It is a closed system with rules that everyone can verify. Anyone can buy part of those numbers if someone who owns them is willing to sell. But you can't counterfeit or copy the numbers because only the original numbers exists in the system and the system recognizes if you own any of those numbers or not.
If there are kids in this world who has similar brain than Snowshow, maybe this will help you understand how Bitcoin works.
You write a lot and say nothing. That what you've written is not how bitcoin works but how numbers are managed according to protocols. Bitcoin "works" only in fantasy. |
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Like I said. I talk about facts. So factually, there are thousands of companies around the world that participate in Satoshi's scheme and give their existing things for free just because the Satoshi's system will write fake numbers next to their addresses in the system. If, like you say, the companies think or say they are using Bitcoin, that's factually incorrect given not s single person on Earth has ever saw Bitcoin. Bitcoin is a non-existent thing.
1. It is not Satoshi's system. He started it and then gave it away for other coders to keep developing the source code of Bitcoin monetary network. No one owns Bitcoin as it is decentralized. Running on thousands of computers around the world. I get it that you don't understand this and still want to lie about this, because your lie suits your agenda. 2. The numbers in Bitcoin network are not fake like you claim. They are proven and verified. Even you can see the Bitcoin source code and the rules of how it operats. You just don't want to verify it because you are so bitter about people making money with Bitcoin and you are not making any money. 3. No one has ever saw Bitcoin? Dude. You sound like 4 years old kid saying that if you can't touch it, it is not real. You CAN see the source code of Bitcoin. You can see the lines of code. You can see the blockchain where every transaction is saved. You can see the monetary network operating just as it's source code means it to operate every single time you send or receive a transaction. If you can't see, you are either blind or just bitter and toxic. Again, don't do this to yourself. Things will only get more harsh for your mental health when Bitcoin value and adoption grows. Stop with the nonsense. When someone says that they bought bitcoin they are not saying that they bought "the source code of Bitcoin" or "blockchain" or "network" of nodes. They're saying they bought coins, tokens, digital money, digital assets... in the quantity that is written next to their address. I have proved to you that this is factually incorrect. They bought nothing. Numbers are fake. I didn't say unverified. I said fake in a sense that no thing exists in the quantities that these numbers indicate. So stop with this rhetorical tricks. You cannot fool anyone here. |
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But I did not sell my address in the system. I still own the address.
To say "nothing" cannot be factually correct, because logic dictates that I obviously sold something. I owned "something" that, after the sale, I no longer own. I ask you again, what did I sell?
You asked what you own. You own an address. Like everyone that installed a wallet application. That's all that you own. I also asked, what did I sell? Obviously, I didn't sell the address, I still own it. But I sold something. What is that? Why is it so hard for you people to look at what is actually happening? Nothing is sold. Factually, the system just plays with the numbers according to some protocols. Can you comprehend the reality of that? Nothing is sold or bought in your example. People sell and buy liabilities in the banking system. Liability is the type of money. Operation with the numbers in the banking system means quantifying liabilities. Liabilities are existent things in the banking system and are quantified with the numbers. In the Satoshi's system there are neither liabilities nor some other type of money. Only fake quantities. These quantities fool many people by creating the illusion that something exists. That something is quantified with them, like coins. But it's not. Quantities are fake. Why does your reasoning fail at such a simple level? You're talking about some Satoshi's system, banking system, liabilities and god knows what else. I'm not interested in those things. I just have one simple question for you. Please bear with me as I explain slowly. I had "something" associated with my address. I went to an online exchange, I exchanged it for fiat currency (for $ 44k at current exchange rates), and now I don't have that "something" anymore. All I have left is just a address. By definition, this process is called sales. My question to you, what did I sell? My answer to you is: nothing. You sold nothing. Take this analogy. I write down my name and "1 Zeus" next to it. I now have "something" associated with my name. I go to my neighbor, I exchange it for fiat currency (for $ 44k) by writing down his name and "1 Zeus", and by writing down my name and "0 Zeus" next to it. Now I don't have that "something" anymore. All I have left is just my name. By definition, this process is called sales. My question to you, what did I sell? |
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/snip
... So, it is impossible to have a rational discussion with you people. ...
/snip
So why don't you leave then? It's obvious that you can't convince us that your opinion is right so just leave if you don't want to have a discussion with us irrational people. I don't want to compare Bitcoin to anything. I have repeatedly told you that Bitcoin can't be compared to things like fiat money, gold or anything like that because Bitcoin is a new thing. I just told you this: ... If you need something to compare Bitcoin to then use gold as it is more similar to gold than to fiat money ...
This doesn't mean that I'm comparing Bitcoin to gold. It means that it's more similar to gold than to fiat money. The only difference to gold is that gold is a physical thing and Bitcoin is not. I could spend all day saying Zeus is this, Zeus is that, comparing them to this, comparing them to that. But Zeus is still fictional given I cannot show them in reality. You who have positive entries next to your address can show just these entries. Nothing digital or tangible exist in your possession. There's no bitcoin in reality. Bitcoin is a fictional item. |
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Why is it so hard for you people to look at what is actually happening? Nothing is sold. Factually, the system just plays with the numbers according to some protocols. Can you comprehend the reality of that? Nothing is sold or bought in your example. People sell and buy liabilities in the banking system. Liability is the type of money. Operation with the numbers in the banking system means quantifying liabilities. Liabilities are existent things in the banking system and are quantified with the numbers. In the Satoshi's system there are neither liabilities nor some other type of money. Only fake quantities. These quantities fool many people by creating the illusion that something exists. That something is quantified with them, like coins. But it's not. Quantities are fake.
Oh, you are still here? You still didn't give up? Damn you are one stubborn person... First, stop comparing Bitcoin to fiat money. Fiat money represent (or at least should represent) liability as you say. Bitcoin does not represent anything. If you need something to compare Bitcoin to then use gold as it is more similar to gold than to fiat money. The only difference is that gold is a physical thing and Bitcoin is not. But you can't say that Bitcoin doesn't exist because it exist. It is a digital data that is generated to reward system that solves complex mathematical calculations in order to verify transactions. I am not comparing Satoshi's numbers to fiat money. This is what you do. First you people say that Satoshi's numbers quantify coins. That bitcoin is a coin. Like a gold coin. That by holding a number next to an address in the Satoshi's system you own coins. Then it is explained to you that coins are tangible items, and that nothing tangible exists in the possession of address holders. What you do then? Well, then you start to compare Satoshi's numbers to fiat money because numbers on deposit accounts are intangible. Then it is explained to you that numbers on deposit accounts exist just to quantity or represent liabilities. That liabilities are intangible type of money which exists in the banking system. And that no liabilities exist in the Satoshi's system. What you do then? Then you go back to comparing Satoshi's numbers to gold. To tangible item. So, it is impossible to have a rational discussion with you people. Given you cannot show bitcoin, all you do is creating false analogies or twisting the meaning of words that are used in finance or economics. That's literally all you do. You engage in all that irrational behavior while in reality everything is so simple. All you have to do is state the obvious: bitcoin doesn't exist. Satoshi's paper is nonsense. You see how simple it is? Stop viewing an anonymous guy like he's some kind of god. He's not. He's just a person ignorant of economics, which is why he wrote a paper with many incorrect statements and assumptions. Stop accepting them at face value. |
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