How Satoshi Nakamoto Fooled the World

[BlackHatCoiner]

You have literally ignored every possible definition of a financial or economic term in this discussion.All that just to claim that Satoshi's numbers are something they are not.

Dude, something that is redeemable needs no legally enforcement to be considered redeemable. Money IOUs in gambling sites are redeemable and they don't represent anything other than the units of the game. They don't represent "real tangible" poker chips. They're just "numbers in a database".

And I've already told you that the same happens with cash. When I hand out $100 in cash to you, I don't pay up any debts, I don't create any liabilities, I'm just handing out a number that doesn't represent anything other than the currency whose usage is being enforced.

Another example is frantically repeating the name Bitcoin as if people were actually holding a coin in their own hands.

"Bitcoin" is just a name and you're just an idiot. That was it, I quit.

[Snowshow]

You have literally ignored every possible definition of a financial or economic term in this discussion.All that just to claim that Satoshi's numbers are something they are not.

Dude, something that is redeemable needs no legally enforcement to be considered redeemable. Money IOUs in gambling sites are redeemable and they don't represent anything other than the units of the game. They don't represent "real tangible" poker chips. They're just "numbers in a database".

And I've already told you that the same happens with cash. When I hand out $100 in cash to you, I don't pay up any debts, I don't create any liabilities, I'm just handing out a number that doesn't represent anything other than the currency whose usage is being enforced.

Another example is frantically repeating the name Bitcoin as if people were actually holding a coin in their own hands.

"Bitcoin" is just a name and you're just an idiot. That was it, I quit.

Stop with this nonsense, you cannot fool anyone here. You literally said that you've redeemed Satoshi's numbers. However, "to redeem" means - to fulfill a liability. When a retailer created a gift card he created the liability to take that card back and give the card holder some products or services. When the retailer does that, the liability is fulfilled. This is what it means to redeem - to fulfill the existing liability. So, what you actually said is that you had the liability, and that you then fulfilled that liability. Which is an obvious lie. You had no liability. Neither you nor anyone else in the Satoshi's system. You literally made up that you "redeemed bitcoin", because I demonstrated to you that "liability"(to redeem) is one form of money. Because I demonstrated that liability is something that exists. Given that liabilities don't exist in the Satoshi's system, you simply twisted the meaning of the word "redeem" to create the illusion that this system has "something" behind the numbers. I literally never saw such a bizarre behavior in my life. Why are you doing this? What are you trying to achieve?

[Western_Boris]

Bitcoin on the other hand doesn't exist. Something that doesn't exist cannot be money. It cannot be a digital product, or coin, token, commodity, whatever.

Ok. So you don't understand what digital means. You are feeling agry that people are using digital money like Bitcoin as a currency, savings account and investment and you want to use your energy to fight that reality that digital stuff exists. That even when everything digital is in the end lines of code, they can still have value to people.
You sound like Donald Trump supporter claiming still that elections were stolen. Even when literally a country has Bitcoin as their official currency.

You must be fun at parties. Telling people how trillion dollar market cap currency is a scam, 100 million users are wrong and the CEO's of the worlds biggest companies and banks do not understand what you understand.

I can already see you going crazy with more and more about Bitcoin in news. "It's not real, it's not real, it's not real..."

[FatFork]

Stop with this nonsense, you cannot fool anyone here.

I agree, you should stop with this nonsense. Whatever you're trying to achieve has never worked before, and it won't work now either.
The sun will still shine, the grass will still be green, and Bitcoin will continue to exist, and it will be redeemable. Deal with it.

I literally never saw such a bizarre behavior in my life. Why are you doing this? What are you trying to achieve?

Right back at you!

[Snowshow]

Bitcoin on the other hand doesn't exist. Something that doesn't exist cannot be money. It cannot be a digital product, or coin, token, commodity, whatever.

Ok. So you don't understand what digital means. You are feeling agry that people are using digital money like Bitcoin as a currency, savings account and investment and you want to use your energy to fight that reality that digital stuff exists. That even when everything digital is in the end lines of code, they can still have value to people.
You sound like Donald Trump supporter claiming still that elections were stolen. Even when literally a country has Bitcoin as their official currency.

You must be fun at parties. Telling people how trillion dollar market cap currency is a scam, 100 million users are wrong and the CEO's of the worlds biggest companies and banks do not understand what you understand.

I can already see you going crazy with more and more about Bitcoin in news. "It's not real, it's not real, it's not real..."

No, I am showing you that you own no digital product. And that Satoshi's number which suggests you do, is a fake number. You see how simple it is?

If you've read my posts, you saw that I didn't talk about my feelings, Trump or elections. So, you're imagining things. Just like you're imagining that you own bitcoins.

Btw, "capitalisation" is multiplying the number of shares in SOMETHING (e.g. equity - capital) by market price of that THING. What you have in the Satoshi's scheme is multiplying the sum of numbers in the Satoshi's system by number of dollars that someone paid to get number "1" added to a number next to their address. This has literally nothing to do with capitalisation. But hey, you in bitcoin community are champions of twisting the meaning of words. So it is no wonder you twisted the meaning of the word "capitalisation" also. Nearly everything you do is imagining things and twisting the meaning of words. This discussion is a perfect example of such behavior.

[cherry556445H43]

Does everyone make money playing BTC?

[Snowshow]

Stop with this nonsense, you cannot fool anyone here.

I agree, you should stop with this nonsense. Whatever you're trying to achieve has never worked before, and it won't work now either.
The sun will still shine, the grass will still be green, and Bitcoin will continue to exist, and it will be redeemable. Deal with it.

I literally never saw such a bizarre behavior in my life. Why are you doing this? What are you trying to achieve?

Right back at you!

Sure Bitcoin will continue to exist, and it will be redeemable. In imagination. I never said otherwise.

[Western_Boris]

Snowshow.
How do you think it will affect your mental health when every day people are using this digital currency which you claim does not exist, more and more? To see how it's value is growing and more companies and banks adopt it to their system?

How do you see yourself handling these news next year? How about in 10 years?

Again, I'm not trying to insult you. I'm trying to show you that where all this is going is not a nice place for your mental health if you keep fighting the reality by lying to yourself that Bitcoin does not exist.

Idea: Would you believe that Bitcoin is real and it has value, if you buy little bit of Bitcoin with your fiat money and then you buy some products with that Bitcoin? Or would you still claim that even when store accepted it as a currency, it still does not exist?

[Iron Fist]

No, I am showing you that you own no digital product. And that Satoshi's number which suggests you do, is a fake number. You see how simple it is?

If you've read my posts, you saw that I didn't talk about my feelings, Trump or elections. So, you're imagining things. Just like you're imagining that you own bitcoins.

Okay, I'll bite. If I don’t own bitcoin, then what do I own? When I go to the exchange and sell my bitcoin for $ 43k, what did I sell? I don't understand what you're really trying to prove here.

[Snowshow]

Snowshow.
How do you think it will affect your mental health when every day people are using this digital currency which you claim does not exist, more and more? To see how it's value is growing and more companies and banks adopt it to their system?

How do you see yourself handling these news next year? How about in 10 years?

Again, I'm not trying to insult you. I'm trying to show you that where all this is going is not a nice place for your mental health if you keep fighting the reality by lying to yourself that Bitcoin does not exist.

Idea: Would you believe that Bitcoin is real and it has value, if you buy little bit of Bitcoin with your fiat money and then you buy some products with that Bitcoin? Or would you still claim that even when store accepted it as a currency, it still does not exist?

I am not interested in your fantasies. Sorry.

No, I am showing you that you own no digital product. And that Satoshi's number which suggests you do, is a fake number. You see how simple it is?

If you've read my posts, you saw that I didn't talk about my feelings, Trump or elections. So, you're imagining things. Just like you're imagining that you own bitcoins.

Okay, I'll bite. If I don’t own bitcoin, then what do I own? When I go to the exchange and sell my bitcoin for $ 43k, what did I sell? I don't understand what you're really trying to prove here.

Factually, you sold nothing. System just increased and decreased the numbers next to addresses and added the results to the blockchain. In short, the Satoshi's system performed some mathematical and technical operations and then the exchange gave you the existing money (liability), that is, 43,000 units of that liability for free.

Of course, you own an address in the system. Just like you own an email address.

[Western_Boris]

Snowshow.

Don't go silent on your mental health. It must be devastating for you to see how Bitcoin adoption grows, countries adopt it, big banks start using it, companies invest in it and accept it as a payment.
Don't do this to yourself. It gets harder and harder for you to live happily if you keep lying to yourself. Don't do it.

How do you think in your mind that it is possible that companies accept Bitcoin as a payment but you say that Bitcoin does not exist. Are you saying all the companies, stock exchange ETFs, governments wanting to regulate Bitcoin etc... that they all lie?
And only you know the truth?

You must be devastated with every news about Bitcoin adoption and usage growing.

[Snowshow]

Snowshow.

Don't go silent on your mental health. It must be devastating for you to see how Bitcoin adoption grows, countries adopt it, big banks start using it, companies invest in it and accept it as a payment.
Don't do this to yourself. It gets harder and harder for you to live happily if you keep lying to yourself. Don't do it.

How do you think in your mind that it is possible that companies accept Bitcoin as a payment but you say that Bitcoin does not exist. Are you saying all the companies, stock exchange ETFs, governments wanting to regulate Bitcoin etc... that they all lie?
And only you know the truth?

You must be devastated with every news about Bitcoin adoption and usage growing.

I don't know what companies are thinking or saying. I never waste my time on something like that. I just observe reality and talk about facts. That's why I am also silent on your fantasies.

[Western_Boris]

I don't know what companies are thinking or saying. I never waste my time on something like that. I just observe reality and talk about facts. That's why I am also silent on your fantasies.

Don't you know that thousands of companies around the world already accepts Bitcoin as a payment? The company I work for included.
Don't you know that there are already several Bitcoin ETF's in many different stock exchanges around the world? And local financial regulators have approved those all?

Don't do this for your mental health. Don't lie to yourself that something you see in the news so much does not exist at all. You might end up hurting yourself or the others one day when you can't take it anymore.

[Iron Fist]

Snowshow.
How do you think it will affect your mental health when every day people are using this digital currency which you claim does not exist, more and more? To see how it's value is growing and more companies and banks adopt it to their system?

How do you see yourself handling these news next year? How about in 10 years?

Again, I'm not trying to insult you. I'm trying to show you that where all this is going is not a nice place for your mental health if you keep fighting the reality by lying to yourself that Bitcoin does not exist.

Idea: Would you believe that Bitcoin is real and it has value, if you buy little bit of Bitcoin with your fiat money and then you buy some products with that Bitcoin? Or would you still claim that even when store accepted it as a currency, it still does not exist?

I am not interested in your fantasies. Sorry.

No, I am showing you that you own no digital product. And that Satoshi's number which suggests you do, is a fake number. You see how simple it is?

If you've read my posts, you saw that I didn't talk about my feelings, Trump or elections. So, you're imagining things. Just like you're imagining that you own bitcoins.

Okay, I'll bite. If I don’t own bitcoin, then what do I own? When I go to the exchange and sell my bitcoin for $ 43k, what did I sell? I don't understand what you're really trying to prove here.

Factually, you sold nothing. System just increased and decreased the numbers next to addresses and added the results to the blockchain. In short, the Satoshi's system performed some mathematical and technical operations and then the exchange gave you the existing money (liability), that is, 43,000 units of that liability for free.

Of course, you own an address in the system. Just like you own an email address.

But I did not sell my address in the system. I still own the address.
To say "nothing" cannot be factually correct, because logic dictates that I obviously sold something. I owned "something" that, after the sale, I no longer own. I ask you again, what did I sell?

[nullama]

~snip~

Of course, you own an address in the system. Just like you own an email address.

It's not the same though. The main difference is digital scarcity. Bitcoins are digitally scarce. Emails are not. That's partly why bitcoins are valuable and emails are not.

I'll give you an example of digital scarcity that you might understand better.

Think about Google. They are basically a digital marketing company. They sell ads to people and companies. But what are they actually selling?, the first result of the list that is returned when you're looking for something.

That's digital scarcity. There can only be one top result when you search for something at google. Result number 203 is not as valuable as result 5, and the first result is the most valuable. They're all digital things that Google can sell to people, with the top result being the most scarce, and the most valuable.

Now, Google top result shows digital scarcity, just like Bitcoin. But Google results are centralized. Bitcoin is decentralized, but that's another story.

The point is that I'm sure you now understand that digital scarcity exists and it's valuable. Bitcoin has digital scarcity.

[Snowshow]

I don't know what companies are thinking or saying. I never waste my time on something like that. I just observe reality and talk about facts. That's why I am also silent on your fantasies.

Don't you know that thousands of companies around the world already accepts Bitcoin as a payment? The company I work for included.
Don't you know that there are already several Bitcoin ETF's in many different stock exchanges around the world? And local financial regulators have approved those all?

Don't do this for your mental health. Don't lie to yourself that something you see in the news so much does not exist at all. You might end up hurting yourself or the others one day when you can't take it anymore.

Like I said. I talk about facts. So factually, there are thousands of companies around the world that participate in Satoshi's scheme and give their existing things for free just because the Satoshi's system will write fake numbers next to their addresses in the system. If, like you say, the companies think or say they are using Bitcoin, that's factually incorrect given not s single person on Earth has ever saw Bitcoin. Bitcoin is a non-existent thing. Of course, you can still think and talk about bitcoin. Like you can talk about Zeus, flying spaghetti monster, unicorn, or whatever. But those are all fictional characters. And if you insist talking they are real that fits the definition of a delusional behavior. Majority around the world are ignorant, and they believe false narrative on bitcoin's existence. So they aren't behaving delusionally. They are just ignorant. However, in this topic I have proved to you that bitcoin doesn't exist, so if you insist on talking that bitcoin exists and ignore all the empirical evidence I gave you, that's delusional behavior.

But I did not sell my address in the system. I still own the address.
To say "nothing" cannot be factually correct, because logic dictates that I obviously sold something. I owned "something" that, after the sale, I no longer own. I ask you again, what did I sell?

You asked what you own. You own an address. Like everyone that installed a wallet application. That's all that you own. Now, whatever playing with the numbers the system performs around your address doesn't make you an owner of something. For example, coins. Coins are tangible items. Like gold ones. You don't own coins. Neither bit-coins nor b-coins. Anyone who has ever told you that you own coins is simply lying or is ignorant. Also you don't own tokens or electronic cash. Those are liability type of money - an entity is liable to redeem them. So, anyone who has ever told you that you own tokens or electronic cash is also lying or is ignorant. That what you have next to your address is a fake number. Fake quantity. Quantity of a thing that doesn't exist. Letters B, T, C in your wallet are fake name. Name of a thing that doesn't exist. Flying spaghetti monster is also the name of a thing that doesn't exist. You can give names to non-existent or fictional things. That's what your wallet application does.

~snip~

Of course, you own an address in the system. Just like you own an email address.

It's not the same though. The main difference is digital scarcity. Bitcoins are digitally scarce. Emails are not. That's partly why bitcoins are valuable and emails are not.

I'll give you an example of digital scarcity that you might understand better.

Think about Google. They are basically a digital marketing company. They sell ads to people and companies. But what are they actually selling?, the first result of the list that is returned when you're looking for something.

That's digital scarcity. There can only be one top result when you search for something at google. Result number 203 is not as valuable as result 5, and the first result is the most valuable. They're all digital things that Google can sell to people, with the top result being the most scarce, and the most valuable.

Now, Google top result shows digital scarcity, just like Bitcoin. But Google results are centralized. Bitcoin is decentralized, but that's another story.

The point is that I'm sure you now understand that digital scarcity exists and it's valuable. Bitcoin has digital scarcity.

Only the existing things can be scarce. Playing with the numbers don't make things pop into existence.

[nullama]

~snip~

If, like you say, the companies think or say they are using Bitcoin, that's factually incorrect given not s single person on Earth has ever saw Bitcoin. Bitcoin is a non-existent thing. Of course, you can still think and talk about bitcoin. Like you can talk about Zeus, flying spaghetti monster, unicorn, or whatever. But those are all fictional characters. And if you insist talking they are real that fits the definition of a delusional behavior.

~snip~

Not a single person in the world has seen infrared light, yet it exists. You can measure it, it's not a made up thing. You use it every time you turn your TV on with your remote control, yet you don't see the infrared light between the two.

In a similar way, you can't see Bitcoin, but you can use it, it's as real as infrared light even though you can't see them.

[Snowshow]

~snip~

If, like you say, the companies think or say they are using Bitcoin, that's factually incorrect given not s single person on Earth has ever saw Bitcoin. Bitcoin is a non-existent thing. Of course, you can still think and talk about bitcoin. Like you can talk about Zeus, flying spaghetti monster, unicorn, or whatever. But those are all fictional characters. And if you insist talking they are real that fits the definition of a delusional behavior.

~snip~

Not a single person in the world has seen infrared light, yet it exists. You can measure it, it's not a made up thing. You use it every time you turn your TV on with your remote control, yet you don't see the infrared light between the two.

In a similar way, you can't see Bitcoin, but you can use it, it's as real as infrared light even though you can't see them.

Sure we can "see" infrared light. Not by our eyes of course. But instruments such as night-vision goggles or infrared cameras–allow us to "see" the infrared waves emitting from warm objects such as humans and animals.

In the Satoshi's system all that you see in the possession of a person is an address. And a fake number attached to it.

[Iron Fist]

But I did not sell my address in the system. I still own the address.
To say "nothing" cannot be factually correct, because logic dictates that I obviously sold something. I owned "something" that, after the sale, I no longer own. I ask you again, what did I sell?

You asked what you own. You own an address. Like everyone that installed a wallet application. That's all that you own.

I also asked, what did I sell? Obviously, I didn't sell the address, I still own it. But I sold something. What is that?

[Snowshow]

But I did not sell my address in the system. I still own the address.
To say "nothing" cannot be factually correct, because logic dictates that I obviously sold something. I owned "something" that, after the sale, I no longer own. I ask you again, what did I sell?

You asked what you own. You own an address. Like everyone that installed a wallet application. That's all that you own.

I also asked, what did I sell? Obviously, I didn't sell the address, I still own it. But I sold something. What is that?

Why is it so hard for you people to look at what is actually happening? Nothing is sold. Factually, the system just plays with the numbers according to some protocols. Can you comprehend the reality of that? Nothing is sold or bought in your example. People sell and buy liabilities in the banking system. Liability is the type of money. Operation with the numbers in the banking system means quantifying liabilities. Liabilities are existent things in the banking system and are quantified with the numbers. In the Satoshi's system there are neither liabilities nor some other type of money. Only fake quantities. These quantities fool many people by creating the illusion that something exists. That something is quantified with them, like coins. But it's not. Quantities are fake.