I don't think this is correct. When I visited HF last week John specifically mentioned that refunds would be done in the currency it was paid in at the amount paid in at the time of the order. So if you paid 50 BTC you will get back 50 BTC. Another topic was the possibility of refunds and John was pretty specific that if refunds do happen they will be full refunds in the currency the order was paid in (BTC in BTC, USD in USD).
LOL and you believe they will act as it was anounced just verbally to a third person? so if yes start to try it and the others will follow immediately. I was there in a room with John, Amy and Erin. So yes, I do hope their word is worth something. Call me naive  that would mean they backed immediately every sale witch Bitcoin if the sale was a BTC sale. very unlikely! were you alone in the room with them? I agree, and I was surprised that John was so direct and clear about this issue. I'm pretty sure I didn't misunderstand. This came up because I wanted to illustrate that a BJ paid for with 59 BTC (in my case) would only produce ~15 BTC in a year. But asking for a refund would also be a 50% reduction in BTC (now 66%) if HF would use USD for refunds. John said they would do full refunds for the amount paid in the currency it was paid in and that I could post this on the forum. So there you go. And yes, it was just me and HF employees. |
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I don't think this is correct. When I visited HF last week John specifically mentioned that refunds would be done in the currency it was paid in at the amount paid in at the time of the order. So if you paid 50 BTC you will get back 50 BTC. Another topic was the possibility of refunds and John was pretty specific that if refunds do happen they will be full refunds in the currency the order was paid in (BTC in BTC, USD in USD).
LOL and you believe they will act as it was anounced just verbally to a third person? so if yes start to try it and the others will follow immediately. I was there in a room with John, Amy and Erin. So yes, I do hope their word is worth something. Call me naive |
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personally at this point im hoping there are major delays and i can just get a refund of my exact amount of coins. Its clear at this point the correct move would have been knc and as much as I dislike BFL, BFL may end up shipping before hashfast.
Hate to be the bearer of bad news but you are not going to get a refund of "exact amount of coins". Prices were in USD, invoices in USD, all advertising in USD. If you get a refund it will be in USD. If you want that refund paid in BTC (instead of say a bank wire) it will be at the exchange rate of the day. The only way you are getting exact coins back is if by some small miracle the exchange rate crashes back to the same one it was on the day you paid. You don't have to believe me, and don't attack the messenger. You can hold out hope and wait for Hashfast to contradict me but that contradiction isn't coming. I don't think this is correct. When I visited HF last week John specifically mentioned that refunds would be done in the currency it was paid in at the amount paid in at the time of the order. So if you paid 50 BTC you will get back 50 BTC. Another topic was the possibility of refunds and John was pretty specific that if refunds do happen they will be full refunds in the currency the order was paid in (BTC in BTC, USD in USD).
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'the jackpot' would be other peoples money.
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Still haven't heard back about the refunds :/
Unless HF starts communicating soon and comes up with concrete shipping dates and delay compensation plans I will be asking for a refund on Nov 10. I ordered on the first day and have copies and screenshots of the site, the terms of sale, invoices, receipts, etc. I'm not too worried. This may have already been done, but could you post your screen shots of the terms of sale and the site from August? Sure. August 8: ToS: http://pastebin.com/EfS9vmRfSite:  Notice the lack of the word 'Anticipated' on the site, and the lack of the 'December 31st' date on the ToS. |
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And they aren't worried by you, either.
Good luck.
Look at the many BFL customers who can't do anything, so yeah i don't think they are worried about you angry customers. I'm not angry. Just well prepared As it stands, It is clear they don't live up to their own promises. And if they don't come up with a refund policy, the best we can do is just test it by asking for a refund. We will see from there. as part of our overall commitment to transparency, we’re posting a live schedule that will allow you to follow the progress of the rigs, and better anticipate when yours will arrive. We’ll be updating the schedule in real time as we get the latest information.
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Still haven't heard back about the refunds :/
Unless HF starts communicating soon and comes up with concrete shipping dates and delay compensation plans I will be asking for a refund on Nov 10. I ordered on the first day and have copies and screenshots of the site, the terms of sale, invoices, receipts, etc. I'm not too worried. |
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+1 interested too...
While Tacotime has been doing a great job, I'd much prefer someone from HF to give official updates directly. They have bitcointalk accounts, so why not use them?
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The AM cube just seems to be a nifty way to repackage Gen1 chips...
I am not sure how he puts over 100 gen1 chips in that little box without causing nuclear fusion to occur. The unit is less than the 1 cubic foot it ships in. Perhaps this is the first immersion cooling product from AM? Or are you suggesting that the cube will be gen2 hardware? I thought gen2 was dead in the water and gen3 is scheduled for February... Last time I checked, a "full mask for 40 nm" would not be considered dead in the water. Sweet! So there will be a gen2 after all and release of a new product line (cubes) based on these is imminent? That would be good news! |
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The AM cube just seems to be a nifty way to repackage Gen1 chips...
I am not sure how he puts over 100 gen1 chips in that little box without causing nuclear fusion to occur. The unit is less than the 1 cubic foot it ships in. Perhaps this is the first immersion cooling product from AM? Or are you suggesting that the cube will be gen2 hardware? I thought gen2 was dead in the water and gen3 is scheduled for February... |
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0.49 BTC for 2.6GH/s vs. 0.8 BTC for 10.75GH/s (blade). I don't think so... Fact is that USB stick miners used to be AM's domain. Redfury now has sticks @ 2.6 GH/s nearly 10x the 0.3 GH/s a BE can provide... I'm sure Redfury will have good margins on this first batch and can lower the prices more than AM can at this point to remain competitive. The AM cube just seems to be a nifty way to repackage Gen1 chips... |
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Great. Running the patched version now. Kudos to the Namecoin devs!
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Not a single person in this thread will ROI. Better start praying that Bitcoin explodes.
Bitcoin exploding does not make a Bitcoin mining ASIC paid for in Bitcoin mine more Bitcoin. On the contrary. When it comes to getting the USD back, sure. Even if the machine only mines 10 BTC in it's lifetime it is likely a matter of time. Just hold and you will most likely at some point see ROI in USD. But that is beside the point if the initial investment was in BTC. If you sell a box for 50 BTC that produces 20 BTC over its lifetime (while eating energy and making noise), it does not sound like a product you can build your business around. Yet that is exactly what we have pre-ordered now that delays are a reality. |
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Overall this visit exceeded my expectations.
Really? You must have had really low expectations then, because unless I missed something or you were asked not to disclose it, judging by your report alone you were told absolutely nothing and were shown absolutely nothing. Well other than that they are human beings, but I dont think anyone doubted that This was just a social visit I had a support ticket for since August. I simply didn't have time to visit before. The plan was to see the office, do a meet & greet with the team and have some coffee with Cara to cover some of the forum questions. Nothing has changed no product
Correct. |
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...
I had collected a number of questions the days before, mainly around how to deal with MPP. HF is acutely aware of the issues a delay is causing and they were certainly interested in exploring what can be done with MPP to help customers succeed as that is the original intent of the program in the first place. I suggested approaches such as starting the timer on Nov 1st and/or accelerating the release of new MPP modules to compensate for delays. etc. They have to operate under an number of constraints so there is no clear solution they could share with me at this point but I'm confident they will work something out.
...
The intent of a business is to make more money then expenses as much as possible. If you think any business has some sort of different charity intent then I got a bridge to sell you. It might even hash or some thing like that. There is no solution to their desire to make more money. They advertised MPP to collect more sales. It had zero to do with wanting customers to succeed because any ASIC seller wants to sell their ASIC for the maximum amount possible. Your visit reminds me of in-person accounts of visits to Enron. Lots of fluff. Any company that consistently screws their customers will not be a company very long (unless you are a monopoly or BFL apparently). While I agree that HF is a company and companies will try to maximize their profits I think reality is more nuanced than that. There needs to be a balance. They need to provide value. They need to build a customer base. They need to build a reputation. But thanks for your constructive feedback. |
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So, I had a chance to visit the HF office in SF today where I met Amy, John and a couple of other folks including an ASIC engineer.
HF recently moved from their San Jose office (with Uniquify) to SF. Currently they are working at a co-working space called NextSpace near Potrero Hill. But this is only temporary as they will be moving to a dedicated HF office near Market St. & Bush St. I asked about the size of the company and If I understand correctly there are now ~14 HF employees covering everything from ASIC design (Mainly done in Australia) to Marketing, Sales and Support.
After a quick tour of the area we moved to the conference room where I chatted with John, and were later joined by the ASIC engineer (not Simon), Amy and another friendly lady whose name I forgot (sorry). Cara had warned me ahead of time that I would have to sign an NDA before even getting into the office, but luckily that was not necessary.
I had collected a number of questions the days before, mainly around how to deal with MPP. HF is acutely aware of the issues a delay is causing and they were certainly interested in exploring what can be done with MPP to help customers succeed as that is the original intent of the program in the first place. I suggested approaches such as starting the timer on Nov 1st and/or accelerating the release of new MPP modules to compensate for delays. etc. They have to operate under an number of constraints so there is no clear solution they could share with me at this point but I'm confident they will work something out.
Another topic was the possibility of refunds and John was pretty specific that if refunds do happen they will be full refunds in the currency the order was paid in (BTC in BTC, USD in USD). Please note that I have not requested a refund and have no plans to do so at this point.
John was also asking if miners might be interested in cloud hosting provided by HF (at industrial energy rates). As a residential miner that will probably end up with at least 5 modules after MPP and pushing the limits of my fuses at home I would probably make use of this if the terms are good. I don't think they have a concrete plan yet but if there is enough interest this is something they will likely pursue in the future.
Another thing we discussed is hardware, however since they are in a temporary co-working space at the moment with most of the engineering & manufacturing done off site (Australia for ASIC design, TSMC for the semiconductors, Ciara for the cases, etc.) they did not have physical hardware on site. John mentioned they are not allowed to take pictures in the factory, but it should be possible to get some pictures of the PCB. So I expect they will have something to show soon. Amy also had some older video of running FPGA simulations (from June) that she could probably share here if there is interest. (it was just a 7s video of a running FPGA board, so not very representative of the current stage of development imho)
As to the duration of the delays, I was unable to get concrete shipping dates. However, Amy did mention they did make significant progress on the substrate issue in the last 48 hours. But I don't have specifics.
Overall this visit exceeded my expectations. I was planning to stop by for only 20 minutes or so and chat with Cara, but I ended up talking with the entire crew for about an hour. My impression is that HF has a capable & professional team, and they do listen to their customers. Amy is also a frequent visitor at the Sillicon Valley Bitcoin Meetup every Tuesday at the plug and play tech center in Sunnyvale so that is another good opportunity to chat with HF if you live in the area.
Note: As I mentioned earlier, I did not sign an NDA but I also want to avoid spreading misinformation due to possible misinterpretation on my side. So HF if you are reading this and find anything to be incorrect, please let me know I'd be happy to fix it.
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