Is this still a thing in 2017?
It is a very popular thing in 2017 actually, a few trolls started it and all the nutjobs jumped on it, they are probably laughing while eating popcorn watching all the idiots spreading the flat earth bullshit through the internet. I would be laughing as well. |
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Problem is, you can call it many many different things, there is no value in calling it god just like there is no value in calling it an alien from another dimension or a computer program simulation, all of those would be perfectly legitimate too then but what's the point, we don't have sufficient evidence for any of them and we may never have, at least in our lifetimes. I recognize the possibility of a intelligent creator, there is no evidence that something like that could exist but because there is also no evidence it does I simply don't believe it. The problem I have is people who actually say they KNOW or they have PROVED god existence when it's simply not true. I'm not an atheist and I really don't like to label anyone with silly tags.
By your argument, you could also say that there is no value in calling it "Big Bang", "the universe", "everything" or "empty space". Which is just simply false. Depending on the circumstances you need to adapt your language to get a message across. You usually can't hope to speak Spanish to a Chinese person. Using different terminology for the same thing is no different. And again, when it comes to "proof", it simply doesn't exist. You can not prove anything whatsoever. You can collect evidence, and it might be enough to get everyone to move on with their lives and to assume that they've figured something out. But in the end, no amount of evidence will ever be conclusive and thus will never constitute as an ultimate proof. Anyone who claims to have proof of anything either uses the term loosely or doesn't know what they are talking about. No, you totally misunderstood what I said just like badecker didn't even attempt to understand because he knows I'm right. The point is that big bang was a name given to something that was observed, all the evidence led to that assumption and the assumption was simply called big bang and it could have been called anything. God on the other hand is not like that, we didn't observe him, we don't have evidence for him. The point is that god is like ghost or like demon or any other imaginary creature you can find, we never observed them, we don't have evidence for them, their descriptions are made up, big bang's description is not made up, is backed up by science and evidence so even if it was called big poop it would still have the same qualities and description that are real. There is no point in saying the creator of the universe is god when we don't know what god is, I think that's pretty simple to understand. The logic is circular, you are saying the creator of the universe is god and then you are describing god as the creator of the universe, no information is gained from this, you might as well call it holly poop, what do I care? If we don't know what it really is, then there is no point. The big bang is not something that was observed whatsoever... That statement makes the rest of your post largely irrelevant since it indicates that you don't even understand what the Big Bang really is about. And as far as misunderstandings go, it's obvious that you haven't gotten my point, since you're just rephrasing the same false statement that I've already addressed previously. You're also putting words into my mouth that I've never said or implied. No, the big bang has evidence that backs it up, god DOES NOT, neither have been observed, ton of things haven't been observed because it's impossible, the point again is that god is something made up and the big bang is not, whether you want to understand that or not it's up to you. The big bang is made up. It's just one hypothetical concept that could possibly explain the creation of the universe. There are various competing hypothesis other than the big bang as well and nobody knows which one is actually true. And that doesn't even take into account the fact that even if the big bang started our universe, we wouldn't know anything about what caused the big bang itself. Which is where the post I've made two posts earlier comes in, that clearly went way over your head. You don't know what you are talking about and you refuse to go back, sit down and try to figure it out instead of just rephrasing the same false statement yet another time. Let me say something first, I'm not claiming the big bang is exactly what happened but the big bang is not hypothetical is a theory (and you told me I don't know what I'm talking about, go figure lol) I'm not a big bang expert whatsoever nor I am a scientist but it is the most prevailing theory for the existence of the universe. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Bang#Observational_evidence There is a lot of evidence to support it, again I'm not claiming it is exactly what happened and it is true that we don't know what happened before the big bang. My point again was simply that even If I agree with badecker that the universe needs a creator, we don't know what the creator is and we don't gain anything by saying it's god and describing god as the creator of the universe, there is no information gained from that, there is no observational evidence for god. |
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Problem is, you can call it many many different things, there is no value in calling it god just like there is no value in calling it an alien from another dimension or a computer program simulation, all of those would be perfectly legitimate too then but what's the point, we don't have sufficient evidence for any of them and we may never have, at least in our lifetimes. I recognize the possibility of a intelligent creator, there is no evidence that something like that could exist but because there is also no evidence it does I simply don't believe it. The problem I have is people who actually say they KNOW or they have PROVED god existence when it's simply not true. I'm not an atheist and I really don't like to label anyone with silly tags.
By your argument, you could also say that there is no value in calling it "Big Bang", "the universe", "everything" or "empty space". Which is just simply false. Depending on the circumstances you need to adapt your language to get a message across. You usually can't hope to speak Spanish to a Chinese person. Using different terminology for the same thing is no different. And again, when it comes to "proof", it simply doesn't exist. You can not prove anything whatsoever. You can collect evidence, and it might be enough to get everyone to move on with their lives and to assume that they've figured something out. But in the end, no amount of evidence will ever be conclusive and thus will never constitute as an ultimate proof. Anyone who claims to have proof of anything either uses the term loosely or doesn't know what they are talking about. No, you totally misunderstood what I said just like badecker didn't even attempt to understand because he knows I'm right. The point is that big bang was a name given to something that was observed, all the evidence led to that assumption and the assumption was simply called big bang and it could have been called anything. God on the other hand is not like that, we didn't observe him, we don't have evidence for him. The point is that god is like ghost or like demon or any other imaginary creature you can find, we never observed them, we don't have evidence for them, their descriptions are made up, big bang's description is not made up, is backed up by science and evidence so even if it was called big poop it would still have the same qualities and description that are real. There is no point in saying the creator of the universe is god when we don't know what god is, I think that's pretty simple to understand. The logic is circular, you are saying the creator of the universe is god and then you are describing god as the creator of the universe, no information is gained from this, you might as well call it holly poop, what do I care? If we don't know what it really is, then there is no point. The big bang is not something that was observed whatsoever... That statement makes the rest of your post largely irrelevant since it indicates that you don't even understand what the Big Bang really is about. And as far as misunderstandings go, it's obvious that you haven't gotten my point, since you're just rephrasing the same false statement that I've already addressed previously. You're also putting words into my mouth that I've never said or implied. No, the big bang has evidence that backs it up, god DOES NOT, neither have been observed, ton of things haven't been observed because it's impossible, the point again is that god is something made up and the big bang is not, whether you want to understand that or not it's up to you. |
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Do you believe in god? If you do, why do you believe? (give a few reasons)
I don't believe in god. But I do believe in God. I believe in God for He has made wonderful and marvelous things in our lives. He is our provider and my bestfriend. He has showed miracles in our lives. I believe in Him for He is the only one who can bring salvation. I believe in Him because He is my Lord and King. Can you give examples of these miracles god has showed to you? Make a star. No cheating. Make it from scratch. No cold fusion machines allowed. Can't, can you? Miracle. Make a rock. No cheating. Make it from scratch. No boulder busters allowed. Can't, can you? Miracle. Make a tree. No cheating. Make it from scratch. No seeds allowed. Can't, can you? Miracle. Make a microbe. No cheating. Make it from scratch. No lab with DNA strand manipulation tools. Can't, can you? Miracle. Make a molecule. No cheating. Make it from scratch. No atoms or subatomic particles allowed. Can't, can you? Miracle. The universe is a miracle. There is no way it could have come about except via a gigantic miracle. Make intelligence. No cheating. Make it from scratch. No miracles allowed. Can't, can you? Miracle.  If god made all these miracles then god is biggest miracle himself. And only god can make big miracles? So who made god? He was there always? Then why could't have universe excited always containing ingredients to form stars and trees? We don't know enough about God to be able to tell if He is a miracle. But it seems like He is, because we can't seem to reproduce Him. God tells us in at least one holy book that He always existed. Otherwise we wouldn't know it. The universe, stars and trees, etc., are complex things. We can tell how complex they are by the fact that we can't duplicate them. We simply aren't smart enough... at least not yet. Entropy reduces complexity to simplicity. Entropy disperses and diffuses all things with all other things. The fact that complexity remains as highly complex as it is, shows that the universe had a beginning. If it didn't, everything would have been reduced to ultra-simplicity by entropy, long ago, and even the intelligence to communicate among ourselves would be gone. The beginning of the universe wasn't very far in the past. We can tell by the great amount of complexity that remains. We don't know enough about god to assert he is real either. God is fiction and so is all the other hundreds of religions, if only 1 true god existed there wouldn't be more religions and gods. Wrong! We know that the universe is extremely complex. People don't like the idea of getting old and dying. If the universe wasn't complex, people would have figured out how to make themselves live at least 200 years, long ago. This kind of complexity doesn't come about by accident. There isn't any example in nature of factual accidental complexity... not one. Whatever made the universe is God with regard to us, just because of the complexity He/She/It placed here. The proof for the existence of God is all over the place. Since you are scientific enough that you see the proof for God as evidence of the possibility, you should really become a believer even though you don't quite have the ability to formulate the evidence into proof. If you imply that complexity is somewhat synonymous with a careful design you are mistaken. Swiss Watch my ass: http://www.sci-news.com/physics/gravitational-waves-colliding-neutron-stars-05328.htmlhttps://youtu.be/EtIkOjq0_50Universe is a hostile, violent place. Not a place to raise a family. But of course, the writers of the religious texts could have not known that. Hence we have flat Earth created in 6 days, 6000 years ago, heaven in the sky, hell underground etc. Yes we all believe in God and why shouldn’t we? Because we know that God exists from the daily changes in life daily occur with us and God save us from many bad things that can harm us. And from the most important thing that when someone heard then that person will must believe in God and that is all the managers send by God and there says are really awesome for anyone and no one can say wrong to them, they says that God exists and we need to prey for him to save us and make our lives safe and good. Gee, you smoke some good shit. Let me see: "We believe because we know he exists because shit does not happen. So we must pray shit does not happen."Yeah, that sums it up. So by praying you 'know' God exist because shit did not happen to you (but the fact that shit happens to others is irrelevant to you). Because you only care about yourself and your carefully constructed God concept. Guess what? Shit does happen, and when it does, you'll say that 'God is working in mysterious ways' :-) That is one more proof that only psychopaths can 'believe' in God(s). I know right, all the terrorist and random attacks that happen everywhere definitely proves god exists because he saved miraculously everyone, wait he didn't. God offers salvation. The promise of salvation is to be accepted in this life. Salvation will be realized in the next life if it is accepted here, starting at the resurrection from the dead. Did all the 2 year old kids that died also had time to accept his salvation? I don't think they had time to accept anything and there are plenty of kids dying at that age not to mention the thousands and thousands of deaths of kids that weren't even born. You are so funny. Here you are asking questions about God, Who you continually deny the existence of. Perhaps if you work the science that shows God exists, then you will find the answer to believing in God.  I have seen that response a few times coming from you when you don't know the answer to my questions. Do you think god will make all the kids that died prematurely go to heaven? If so, wouldn't that be unfair for us? I mean we have to pass a test and they don't? What about all the people that could have existed but don't, what about all the people that just didn't know about god, do you not see how stupid your religion is? Or are you going to use the same bullshit answer? When you look in the Gospels in the beginning of the New Testament, you will find that Jesus talked to a lot of people, and answered many questions while providing much information that was not even asked for. Then, after His resurrection from the dead, He didn't even allow Himself to be seen by those who were not His believing fellowship. If He talked to them at all, it was very little. Since I have answered your questions in the past, but you were unwilling to retain the answers, why should I go through the trouble of answering them again? You know that you are not asking the questions because you are interested in finding the answers. You know that you are simply trying to trip me up, or get a higher rating on Bitcointalk. The answers to your questions are in the Bible. If you want to find them, it's about time that you turn to the bible ans start studying. Or you can go visit formal Bible scholars at the churches and Bible colleges. I easily have the answers to the questions you ask. But since it isn't really the answers you are looking for, there is no reason for me to answer. And again another bullshit answer that has nothing to do with my question, typical religious tactics. Nothing is said in the bible clearly about this. I researched, believe me, I was a christian myself. ''Theologians and Christian leaders throughout history have sought to answer this knotty problem. Augustine and Ambrose argued that since infants inherit the guilt of sin, not just the sin nature, only baptized infants would be saved. John Calvin and C. H. Spurgeon maintained that God’s election could extend to infants and children, so they were already predestined for salvation. And a variation of this view argues that God foreknows who will believe, so they are saved even if they die before they reach the age or mental capacity to do so.'' Again, nothing makes sense, if all children are saved even if they don't believe in god then it's totally unfair, if only baptized infants are saved, then it's simply just stupid because a lot of people don't know about god. The variation that says god foreknows who will believe makes no sense because then, why all this? If god already knows, there is no point in all of this, isn't this supposed to be a test? He could just take everyone to heaven. As you can see, there is no good answer because the bible is stupid, stop denying reality and accept that your book is simply a book, it has a lot of flaws which is understandable. |
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''We are greater intelligence making lesser intelligence.'' That depends, if you have a son and he is more intelligent than you, does that mean you are able to make greater intelligence with lesser intelligence? Even If I agree with all your points and everything suggests that there has to be a greater intelligence that created the universe, your argument never mentions or shows why that being would be god and not something else. There is nothing to suggest your god did it and not some other entity.
People don't make their children. They get them started by having fun, and nature takes over and makes the kids. Your deception only helps to strengthen the fact that there is proof that god exists. The reason the being would be God is that He is supremely capable, not only in the ways that we are, but in multitudes of ways we are not enabled. Why is He that way? He is that way because He programmed everything by cause and effect. Such programming is not even fathomable by people. I have shown and told this to you on many occasions, but you just slide by it and ignore it. So, thanks for strengthening the fact that God exists... in the minds of others. So the reason that being would be god is because god is supremely capable, you see the circular reasoning there right? You can't say the reason the creator of the universe has to be god because god bla bla. You have to prove god, you can prove god with god, that's nonsense No circular reasoning. Don't use the word "God" for a moment. Imagine that big bang made the universe. Wouldn't big bang have to be extremely capable to make something like the universe? We are so week in our theory making, that there is only a tiny amount of stuff in BB theory that fits what it would take to make the universe and all the complexity therein. There isn't any of the strength, knowledge, capability in BB to make a universe like ours. Whatever made the universe fits the definition of God regarding the power, intelligence, personal identity, emotion, and a whole lot of other factors that BB would need to accomplish this gigantic feat. Cause and effect combined with complexity shows us that there is no other way to approach this subject. If there is, show it to us. Or are you saying we just don't know and probably never will? Any other way would have to include pure random. ''Whatever made the universe fits the definition of God'' Which god, certainly not your god (Bible god) If we can't know who did it exactly then there is no point, you are just defining god as the creator of the universe, ok, so? What other attributes does he posses, is he like us, from another universe, we can't know anything about him/her/it, you can just say it's god but there is nothing else after that, you don't have any type of evidence to indicate what he really is, you just keep calling him god. God: creator of the universe Your argument: Well the creator of the universe is god Me: Who is god You: god is the creator of the universe Circular reasoning. Science is fundamentally circular as well. God vs no god is thus no more than entertainment that some people choose to take way too seriously. The whole idea of a God is definitely made up and expressed by humans. However, at the same time there definitely exists an omnipresent and omniscient something, namely the entirety of existence. Calling that entirety God is perfectly legitimate and something that most rampant atheists are too ignorant and/or arrogant to realize. Whether or not that entirety is conscious is a different question (and an odd one at that, as there wouldn't be any change to be conscious of for something that is everything - temporal, spatial, etc. - at once), but we can't even answer what human consciousness means in any satisfactory way. Alas, any and every God debate is no more than a mental exercise or just yet another way to pass time as a human being at best, and a way to manipulate others at worst. Problem is, you can call it many many different things, there is no value in calling it god just like there is no value in calling it an alien from another dimension or a computer program simulation, all of those would be perfectly legitimate too then but what's the point, we don't have sufficient evidence for any of them and we may never have, at least in our lifetimes. I recognize the possibility of a intelligent creator, there is no evidence that something like that could exist but because there is also no evidence it does I simply don't believe it. The problem I have is people who actually say they KNOW or they have PROVED god existence when it's simply not true. I'm not an atheist and I really don't like to label anyone with silly tags. By your argument, you could also say that there is no value in calling it "Big Bang", "the universe", "everything" or "empty space". Which is just simply false. Depending on the circumstances you need to adapt your language to get a message across. You usually can't hope to speak Spanish to a Chinese person. Using different terminology for the same thing is no different. And again, when it comes to "proof", it simply doesn't exist. You can not prove anything whatsoever. You can collect evidence, and it might be enough to get everyone to move on with their lives and to assume that they've figured something out. But in the end, no amount of evidence will ever be conclusive and thus will never constitute as an ultimate proof. Anyone who claims to have proof of anything either uses the term loosely or doesn't know what they are talking about. No, you totally misunderstood what I said just like badecker didn't even attempt to understand because he knows I'm right. The point is that big bang was a name given to something that was observed, all the evidence led to that assumption and the assumption was simply called big bang and it could have been called anything. God on the other hand is not like that, we didn't observe him, we don't have evidence for him. The point is that god is like ghost or like demon or any other imaginary creature you can find, we never observed them, we don't have evidence for them, their descriptions are made up, big bang's description is not made up, is backed up by science and evidence so even if it was called big poop it would still have the same qualities and description that are real. There is no point in saying the creator of the universe is god when we don't know what god is, I think that's pretty simple to understand. The logic is circular, you are saying the creator of the universe is god and then you are describing god as the creator of the universe, no information is gained from this, you might as well call it holly poop, what do I care? If we don't know what it really is, then there is no point. |
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''We are greater intelligence making lesser intelligence.'' That depends, if you have a son and he is more intelligent than you, does that mean you are able to make greater intelligence with lesser intelligence? Even If I agree with all your points and everything suggests that there has to be a greater intelligence that created the universe, your argument never mentions or shows why that being would be god and not something else. There is nothing to suggest your god did it and not some other entity.
People don't make their children. They get them started by having fun, and nature takes over and makes the kids. Your deception only helps to strengthen the fact that there is proof that god exists. The reason the being would be God is that He is supremely capable, not only in the ways that we are, but in multitudes of ways we are not enabled. Why is He that way? He is that way because He programmed everything by cause and effect. Such programming is not even fathomable by people. I have shown and told this to you on many occasions, but you just slide by it and ignore it. So, thanks for strengthening the fact that God exists... in the minds of others. So the reason that being would be god is because god is supremely capable, you see the circular reasoning there right? You can't say the reason the creator of the universe has to be god because god bla bla. You have to prove god, you can prove god with god, that's nonsense No circular reasoning. Don't use the word "God" for a moment. Imagine that big bang made the universe. Wouldn't big bang have to be extremely capable to make something like the universe? We are so week in our theory making, that there is only a tiny amount of stuff in BB theory that fits what it would take to make the universe and all the complexity therein. There isn't any of the strength, knowledge, capability in BB to make a universe like ours. Whatever made the universe fits the definition of God regarding the power, intelligence, personal identity, emotion, and a whole lot of other factors that BB would need to accomplish this gigantic feat. Cause and effect combined with complexity shows us that there is no other way to approach this subject. If there is, show it to us. Or are you saying we just don't know and probably never will? Any other way would have to include pure random. ''Whatever made the universe fits the definition of God'' Which god, certainly not your god (Bible god) If we can't know who did it exactly then there is no point, you are just defining god as the creator of the universe, ok, so? What other attributes does he posses, is he like us, from another universe, we can't know anything about him/her/it, you can just say it's god but there is nothing else after that, you don't have any type of evidence to indicate what he really is, you just keep calling him god. God: creator of the universe Your argument: Well the creator of the universe is god Me: Who is god You: god is the creator of the universe Circular reasoning. Science is fundamentally circular as well. God vs no god is thus no more than entertainment that some people choose to take way too seriously. The whole idea of a God is definitely made up and expressed by humans. However, at the same time there definitely exists an omnipresent and omniscient something, namely the entirety of existence. Calling that entirety God is perfectly legitimate and something that most rampant atheists are too ignorant and/or arrogant to realize. Whether or not that entirety is conscious is a different question (and an odd one at that, as there wouldn't be any change to be conscious of for something that is everything - temporal, spatial, etc. - at once), but we can't even answer what human consciousness means in any satisfactory way. Alas, any and every God debate is no more than a mental exercise or just yet another way to pass time as a human being at best, and a way to manipulate others at worst. Problem is, you can call it many many different things, there is no value in calling it god just like there is no value in calling it an alien from another dimension or a computer program simulation, all of those would be perfectly legitimate too then but what's the point, we don't have sufficient evidence for any of them and we may never have, at least in our lifetimes. I recognize the possibility of a intelligent creator, there is no evidence that something like that could exist but because there is also no evidence it does I simply don't believe it. The problem I have is people who actually say they KNOW or they have PROVED god existence when it's simply not true. I'm not an atheist and I really don't like to label anyone with silly tags. |
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i think we should get off with this topic.
i mean literally, end it guys.
north korea will blow us up and you guys still with this topic?
Nooo, don't worry they'll shoot their nukes the wrong way and they'll fall off the edge of the earth  They wont because apparently there is a huge dome which is electrified with quadrillion volts, yes that dome that no one has ever seen, they know that because... err, they just do, the bible says so. |
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Do you believe in god? If you do, why do you believe? (give a few reasons)
I don't believe in god. But I do believe in God. I believe in God for He has made wonderful and marvelous things in our lives. He is our provider and my bestfriend. He has showed miracles in our lives. I believe in Him for He is the only one who can bring salvation. I believe in Him because He is my Lord and King. Can you give examples of these miracles god has showed to you? Make a star. No cheating. Make it from scratch. No cold fusion machines allowed. Can't, can you? Miracle. Make a rock. No cheating. Make it from scratch. No boulder busters allowed. Can't, can you? Miracle. Make a tree. No cheating. Make it from scratch. No seeds allowed. Can't, can you? Miracle. Make a microbe. No cheating. Make it from scratch. No lab with DNA strand manipulation tools. Can't, can you? Miracle. Make a molecule. No cheating. Make it from scratch. No atoms or subatomic particles allowed. Can't, can you? Miracle. The universe is a miracle. There is no way it could have come about except via a gigantic miracle. Make intelligence. No cheating. Make it from scratch. No miracles allowed. Can't, can you? Miracle. If god made all these miracles then god is biggest miracle himself. And only god can make big miracles? So who made god? He was there always? Then why could't have universe excited always containing ingredients to form stars and trees? We don't know enough about God to be able to tell if He is a miracle. But it seems like He is, because we can't seem to reproduce Him. God tells us in at least one holy book that He always existed. Otherwise we wouldn't know it. The universe, stars and trees, etc., are complex things. We can tell how complex they are by the fact that we can't duplicate them. We simply aren't smart enough... at least not yet. Entropy reduces complexity to simplicity. Entropy disperses and diffuses all things with all other things. The fact that complexity remains as highly complex as it is, shows that the universe had a beginning. If it didn't, everything would have been reduced to ultra-simplicity by entropy, long ago, and even the intelligence to communicate among ourselves would be gone. The beginning of the universe wasn't very far in the past. We can tell by the great amount of complexity that remains. We don't know enough about god to assert he is real either. God is fiction and so is all the other hundreds of religions, if only 1 true god existed there wouldn't be more religions and gods. Wrong! We know that the universe is extremely complex. People don't like the idea of getting old and dying. If the universe wasn't complex, people would have figured out how to make themselves live at least 200 years, long ago. This kind of complexity doesn't come about by accident. There isn't any example in nature of factual accidental complexity... not one. Whatever made the universe is God with regard to us, just because of the complexity He/She/It placed here. The proof for the existence of God is all over the place. Since you are scientific enough that you see the proof for God as evidence of the possibility, you should really become a believer even though you don't quite have the ability to formulate the evidence into proof. If you imply that complexity is somewhat synonymous with a careful design you are mistaken. Swiss Watch my ass: http://www.sci-news.com/physics/gravitational-waves-colliding-neutron-stars-05328.htmlhttps://youtu.be/EtIkOjq0_50Universe is a hostile, violent place. Not a place to raise a family. But of course, the writers of the religious texts could have not known that. Hence we have flat Earth created in 6 days, 6000 years ago, heaven in the sky, hell underground etc. Yes we all believe in God and why shouldn’t we? Because we know that God exists from the daily changes in life daily occur with us and God save us from many bad things that can harm us. And from the most important thing that when someone heard then that person will must believe in God and that is all the managers send by God and there says are really awesome for anyone and no one can say wrong to them, they says that God exists and we need to prey for him to save us and make our lives safe and good. Gee, you smoke some good shit. Let me see: "We believe because we know he exists because shit does not happen. So we must pray shit does not happen."Yeah, that sums it up. So by praying you 'know' God exist because shit did not happen to you (but the fact that shit happens to others is irrelevant to you). Because you only care about yourself and your carefully constructed God concept. Guess what? Shit does happen, and when it does, you'll say that 'God is working in mysterious ways' :-) That is one more proof that only psychopaths can 'believe' in God(s). I know right, all the terrorist and random attacks that happen everywhere definitely proves god exists because he saved miraculously everyone, wait he didn't. God offers salvation. The promise of salvation is to be accepted in this life. Salvation will be realized in the next life if it is accepted here, starting at the resurrection from the dead. Did all the 2 year old kids that died also had time to accept his salvation? I don't think they had time to accept anything and there are plenty of kids dying at that age not to mention the thousands and thousands of deaths of kids that weren't even born. You are so funny. Here you are asking questions about God, Who you continually deny the existence of. Perhaps if you work the science that shows God exists, then you will find the answer to believing in God. I have seen that response a few times coming from you when you don't know the answer to my questions. Do you think god will make all the kids that died prematurely go to heaven? If so, wouldn't that be unfair for us? I mean we have to pass a test and they don't? What about all the people that could have existed but don't, what about all the people that just didn't know about god, do you not see how stupid your religion is? Or are you going to use the same bullshit answer? |
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''We are greater intelligence making lesser intelligence.'' That depends, if you have a son and he is more intelligent than you, does that mean you are able to make greater intelligence with lesser intelligence? Even If I agree with all your points and everything suggests that there has to be a greater intelligence that created the universe, your argument never mentions or shows why that being would be god and not something else. There is nothing to suggest your god did it and not some other entity.
People don't make their children. They get them started by having fun, and nature takes over and makes the kids. Your deception only helps to strengthen the fact that there is proof that god exists. The reason the being would be God is that He is supremely capable, not only in the ways that we are, but in multitudes of ways we are not enabled. Why is He that way? He is that way because He programmed everything by cause and effect. Such programming is not even fathomable by people. I have shown and told this to you on many occasions, but you just slide by it and ignore it. So, thanks for strengthening the fact that God exists... in the minds of others. So the reason that being would be god is because god is supremely capable, you see the circular reasoning there right? You can't say the reason the creator of the universe has to be god because god bla bla. You have to prove god, you can prove god with god, that's nonsense No circular reasoning. Don't use the word "God" for a moment. Imagine that big bang made the universe. Wouldn't big bang have to be extremely capable to make something like the universe? We are so week in our theory making, that there is only a tiny amount of stuff in BB theory that fits what it would take to make the universe and all the complexity therein. There isn't any of the strength, knowledge, capability in BB to make a universe like ours. Whatever made the universe fits the definition of God regarding the power, intelligence, personal identity, emotion, and a whole lot of other factors that BB would need to accomplish this gigantic feat. Cause and effect combined with complexity shows us that there is no other way to approach this subject. If there is, show it to us. Or are you saying we just don't know and probably never will? Any other way would have to include pure random. ''Whatever made the universe fits the definition of God'' Which god, certainly not your god (Bible god) If we can't know who did it exactly then there is no point, you are just defining god as the creator of the universe, ok, so? What other attributes does he posses, is he like us, from another universe, we can't know anything about him/her/it, you can just say it's god but there is nothing else after that, you don't have any type of evidence to indicate what he really is, you just keep calling him god. God: creator of the universe Your argument: Well the creator of the universe is god Me: Who is god You: god is the creator of the universe Circular reasoning. |
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... It is strange that even in the 21st century people believe in the theory of evolution. We can clone animals and humans. We know how to theoretically organize a big bang and create a universe. But we don't believe that we were created by more advanced people. Evolution is limited to DNA mutations. But someone created DNA. How do you know that someone created the DNA? Do you have ANY proof? Or this is one of your wipe ass assertions? Do you have ANY proof transformation of inanimate matter into living matter, incredibly complex DNA construction? To create DNA without the help of a computer is IMPOSSIBLE. If god existed he would have transformed inanimate matter into living matter, wouldn't he? What's your point here exactly? |
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''We are greater intelligence making lesser intelligence.'' That depends, if you have a son and he is more intelligent than you, does that mean you are able to make greater intelligence with lesser intelligence? Even If I agree with all your points and everything suggests that there has to be a greater intelligence that created the universe, your argument never mentions or shows why that being would be god and not something else. There is nothing to suggest your god did it and not some other entity.
People don't make their children. They get them started by having fun, and nature takes over and makes the kids. Your deception only helps to strengthen the fact that there is proof that god exists. The reason the being would be God is that He is supremely capable, not only in the ways that we are, but in multitudes of ways we are not enabled. Why is He that way? He is that way because He programmed everything by cause and effect. Such programming is not even fathomable by people. I have shown and told this to you on many occasions, but you just slide by it and ignore it. So, thanks for strengthening the fact that God exists... in the minds of others. So the reason that being would be god is because god is supremely capable, you see the circular reasoning there right? You can't say the reason the creator of the universe has to be god because god bla bla. You have to prove god, you can prove god with god, that's nonsense |
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Do you believe in god? If you do, why do you believe? (give a few reasons)
I don't believe in god. But I do believe in God. I believe in God for He has made wonderful and marvelous things in our lives. He is our provider and my bestfriend. He has showed miracles in our lives. I believe in Him for He is the only one who can bring salvation. I believe in Him because He is my Lord and King. Can you give examples of these miracles god has showed to you? Make a star. No cheating. Make it from scratch. No cold fusion machines allowed. Can't, can you? Miracle. Make a rock. No cheating. Make it from scratch. No boulder busters allowed. Can't, can you? Miracle. Make a tree. No cheating. Make it from scratch. No seeds allowed. Can't, can you? Miracle. Make a microbe. No cheating. Make it from scratch. No lab with DNA strand manipulation tools. Can't, can you? Miracle. Make a molecule. No cheating. Make it from scratch. No atoms or subatomic particles allowed. Can't, can you? Miracle. The universe is a miracle. There is no way it could have come about except via a gigantic miracle. Make intelligence. No cheating. Make it from scratch. No miracles allowed. Can't, can you? Miracle. If god made all these miracles then god is biggest miracle himself. And only god can make big miracles? So who made god? He was there always? Then why could't have universe excited always containing ingredients to form stars and trees? We don't know enough about God to be able to tell if He is a miracle. But it seems like He is, because we can't seem to reproduce Him. God tells us in at least one holy book that He always existed. Otherwise we wouldn't know it. The universe, stars and trees, etc., are complex things. We can tell how complex they are by the fact that we can't duplicate them. We simply aren't smart enough... at least not yet. Entropy reduces complexity to simplicity. Entropy disperses and diffuses all things with all other things. The fact that complexity remains as highly complex as it is, shows that the universe had a beginning. If it didn't, everything would have been reduced to ultra-simplicity by entropy, long ago, and even the intelligence to communicate among ourselves would be gone. The beginning of the universe wasn't very far in the past. We can tell by the great amount of complexity that remains. We don't know enough about god to assert he is real either. God is fiction and so is all the other hundreds of religions, if only 1 true god existed there wouldn't be more religions and gods. Wrong! We know that the universe is extremely complex. People don't like the idea of getting old and dying. If the universe wasn't complex, people would have figured out how to make themselves live at least 200 years, long ago. This kind of complexity doesn't come about by accident. There isn't any example in nature of factual accidental complexity... not one. Whatever made the universe is God with regard to us, just because of the complexity He/She/It placed here. The proof for the existence of God is all over the place. Since you are scientific enough that you see the proof for God as evidence of the possibility, you should really become a believer even though you don't quite have the ability to formulate the evidence into proof. If you imply that complexity is somewhat synonymous with a careful design you are mistaken. Swiss Watch my ass: http://www.sci-news.com/physics/gravitational-waves-colliding-neutron-stars-05328.htmlhttps://youtu.be/EtIkOjq0_50Universe is a hostile, violent place. Not a place to raise a family. But of course, the writers of the religious texts could have not known that. Hence we have flat Earth created in 6 days, 6000 years ago, heaven in the sky, hell underground etc. Yes we all believe in God and why shouldn’t we? Because we know that God exists from the daily changes in life daily occur with us and God save us from many bad things that can harm us. And from the most important thing that when someone heard then that person will must believe in God and that is all the managers send by God and there says are really awesome for anyone and no one can say wrong to them, they says that God exists and we need to prey for him to save us and make our lives safe and good. Gee, you smoke some good shit. Let me see: "We believe because we know he exists because shit does not happen. So we must pray shit does not happen."Yeah, that sums it up. So by praying you 'know' God exist because shit did not happen to you (but the fact that shit happens to others is irrelevant to you). Because you only care about yourself and your carefully constructed God concept. Guess what? Shit does happen, and when it does, you'll say that 'God is working in mysterious ways' :-) That is one more proof that only psychopaths can 'believe' in God(s). I know right, all the terrorist and random attacks that happen everywhere definitely proves god exists because he saved miraculously everyone, wait he didn't. God offers salvation. The promise of salvation is to be accepted in this life. Salvation will be realized in the next life if it is accepted here, starting at the resurrection from the dead. Did all the 2 year old kids that died also had time to accept his salvation? I don't think they had time to accept anything and there are plenty of kids dying at that age not to mention the thousands and thousands of deaths of kids that weren't even born. |
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Do you believe in god? If you do, why do you believe? (give a few reasons)
I don't believe in god. But I do believe in God. I believe in God for He has made wonderful and marvelous things in our lives. He is our provider and my bestfriend. He has showed miracles in our lives. I believe in Him for He is the only one who can bring salvation. I believe in Him because He is my Lord and King. Can you give examples of these miracles god has showed to you? Make a star. No cheating. Make it from scratch. No cold fusion machines allowed. Can't, can you? Miracle. Make a rock. No cheating. Make it from scratch. No boulder busters allowed. Can't, can you? Miracle. Make a tree. No cheating. Make it from scratch. No seeds allowed. Can't, can you? Miracle. Make a microbe. No cheating. Make it from scratch. No lab with DNA strand manipulation tools. Can't, can you? Miracle. Make a molecule. No cheating. Make it from scratch. No atoms or subatomic particles allowed. Can't, can you? Miracle. The universe is a miracle. There is no way it could have come about except via a gigantic miracle. Make intelligence. No cheating. Make it from scratch. No miracles allowed. Can't, can you? Miracle. If god made all these miracles then god is biggest miracle himself. And only god can make big miracles? So who made god? He was there always? Then why could't have universe excited always containing ingredients to form stars and trees? We don't know enough about God to be able to tell if He is a miracle. But it seems like He is, because we can't seem to reproduce Him. God tells us in at least one holy book that He always existed. Otherwise we wouldn't know it. The universe, stars and trees, etc., are complex things. We can tell how complex they are by the fact that we can't duplicate them. We simply aren't smart enough... at least not yet. Entropy reduces complexity to simplicity. Entropy disperses and diffuses all things with all other things. The fact that complexity remains as highly complex as it is, shows that the universe had a beginning. If it didn't, everything would have been reduced to ultra-simplicity by entropy, long ago, and even the intelligence to communicate among ourselves would be gone. The beginning of the universe wasn't very far in the past. We can tell by the great amount of complexity that remains. We don't know enough about god to assert he is real either. God is fiction and so is all the other hundreds of religions, if only 1 true god existed there wouldn't be more religions and gods. Wrong! We know that the universe is extremely complex. People don't like the idea of getting old and dying. If the universe wasn't complex, people would have figured out how to make themselves live at least 200 years, long ago. This kind of complexity doesn't come about by accident. There isn't any example in nature of factual accidental complexity... not one. Whatever made the universe is God with regard to us, just because of the complexity He/She/It placed here. The proof for the existence of God is all over the place. Since you are scientific enough that you see the proof for God as evidence of the possibility, you should really become a believer even though you don't quite have the ability to formulate the evidence into proof. If you imply that complexity is somewhat synonymous with a careful design you are mistaken. Swiss Watch my ass: http://www.sci-news.com/physics/gravitational-waves-colliding-neutron-stars-05328.htmlhttps://youtu.be/EtIkOjq0_50Universe is a hostile, violent place. Not a place to raise a family. But of course, the writers of the religious texts could have not known that. Hence we have flat Earth created in 6 days, 6000 years ago, heaven in the sky, hell underground etc. Yes we all believe in God and why shouldn’t we? Because we know that God exists from the daily changes in life daily occur with us and God save us from many bad things that can harm us. And from the most important thing that when someone heard then that person will must believe in God and that is all the managers send by God and there says are really awesome for anyone and no one can say wrong to them, they says that God exists and we need to prey for him to save us and make our lives safe and good. Gee, you smoke some good shit. Let me see: "We believe because we know he exists because shit does not happen. So we must pray shit does not happen."Yeah, that sums it up. So by praying you 'know' God exist because shit did not happen to you (but the fact that shit happens to others is irrelevant to you). Because you only care about yourself and your carefully constructed God concept. Guess what? Shit does happen, and when it does, you'll say that 'God is working in mysterious ways' :-) That is one more proof that only psychopaths can 'believe' in God(s). I know right, all the terrorist and random attacks that happen everywhere definitely proves god exists because he saved miraculously everyone, wait he didn't. |
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''We are greater intelligence making lesser intelligence.'' That depends, if you have a son and he is more intelligent than you, does that mean you are able to make greater intelligence with lesser intelligence? Even If I agree with all your points and everything suggests that there has to be a greater intelligence that created the universe, your argument never mentions or shows why that being would be god and not something else. There is nothing to suggest your god did it and not some other entity.
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What I want to know is. If the earth is flat. How thick is it. How far would you have to dig to get to the other side. And what is on the other side.
What's on the other side of the floor you're standing on and how thick is it? The deepest hole drilled is eight ( 8 ) miles and the bible claims there's water outside of the dome and below the earth. The globalists will push the idea of a disk floating in a vacuum to discredit the idea we're on a plane. There is no outer space just the wall of an impenetrable steel dome covering a flat and motionless plane. The sun and moon are also small luminaries inside the dome and it's the effect of density and buoyancy that keeps all earthly objects pushed down; there is no gravity. The earth is also less than ten-thousand (10k) years old. We're inside an engineered structure, an electromechanical machine. Show us a rocket circling the sun or getting close to the dome or going around your flat earth and taking a video of the giant ice wall that surrounds it, it's that easy to prove your retarded idea and yet no one has done it, doesn't that make you wonder? There are supposedly tons of fake photos/videos of the round earth yet not a single one of the flat earth, how stupid can you be to not see it? |
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Do you believe in god? If you do, why do you believe? (give a few reasons)
I don't believe in god. But I do believe in God. I believe in God for He has made wonderful and marvelous things in our lives. He is our provider and my bestfriend. He has showed miracles in our lives. I believe in Him for He is the only one who can bring salvation. I believe in Him because He is my Lord and King. Can you give examples of these miracles god has showed to you? Make a star. No cheating. Make it from scratch. No cold fusion machines allowed. Can't, can you? Miracle. Make a rock. No cheating. Make it from scratch. No boulder busters allowed. Can't, can you? Miracle. Make a tree. No cheating. Make it from scratch. No seeds allowed. Can't, can you? Miracle. Make a microbe. No cheating. Make it from scratch. No lab with DNA strand manipulation tools. Can't, can you? Miracle. Make a molecule. No cheating. Make it from scratch. No atoms or subatomic particles allowed. Can't, can you? Miracle. The universe is a miracle. There is no way it could have come about except via a gigantic miracle. Make intelligence. No cheating. Make it from scratch. No miracles allowed. Can't, can you? Miracle. If god made all these miracles then god is biggest miracle himself. And only god can make big miracles? So who made god? He was there always? Then why could't have universe excited always containing ingredients to form stars and trees? We don't know enough about God to be able to tell if He is a miracle. But it seems like He is, because we can't seem to reproduce Him. God tells us in at least one holy book that He always existed. Otherwise we wouldn't know it. The universe, stars and trees, etc., are complex things. We can tell how complex they are by the fact that we can't duplicate them. We simply aren't smart enough... at least not yet. Entropy reduces complexity to simplicity. Entropy disperses and diffuses all things with all other things. The fact that complexity remains as highly complex as it is, shows that the universe had a beginning. If it didn't, everything would have been reduced to ultra-simplicity by entropy, long ago, and even the intelligence to communicate among ourselves would be gone. The beginning of the universe wasn't very far in the past. We can tell by the great amount of complexity that remains. We don't know enough about god to assert he is real either. God is fiction and so is all the other hundreds of religions, if only 1 true god existed there wouldn't be more religions and gods. Wrong! We know that the universe is extremely complex. People don't like the idea of getting old and dying. If the universe wasn't complex, people would have figured out how to make themselves live at least 200 years, long ago. This kind of complexity doesn't come about by accident. There isn't any example in nature of factual accidental complexity... not one. Whatever made the universe is God with regard to us, just because of the complexity He/She/It placed here. The proof for the existence of God is all over the place. Since you are scientific enough that you see the proof for God as evidence of the possibility, you should really become a believer even though you don't quite have the ability to formulate the evidence into proof. I can do the same with different words. The universe is not that complex because humans have been able to travel through space very fast. Even if we agree that there must be a complex creator, your whole argument always fails to indicate why the creator would be a god and not simply something else, there is no evidence indicating what the first creator is. |
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If bible, koran, torah and other holy scriptures are wrong this will not prove that there is no God. If there is a God there is no way we can prove his existence if he don't want to. Our civilization is still very young, still many things we cannot explained.
As was said directly above your post, God made science to prove his existence. Actually, He made science so we could prove His existence to ourselves. All the holy books in the world might be wrong, but science still proves God's existence. Science can't really prove anything. All of science is based on statistics and not on immutable facts. All of science is circular as well, so it's not really possible to prove anything in the strictest sense of the word. That also means that there very well might not be anything that requires any proof and that people who chase such are just enjoying their time on earth by making up statements that they feel need to be proven (or not). There is no way to prove that there is any Internet, that we are posting on Bitcointalk, that we exist, etc. We can't even prove whether or not we are a figment of our own imagination. However, in the common, standard scientific understanding of things, we can scientifically prove that God exists. Yet there is no such thing as a ''god theory'' or anything even close to that in the whole scientific community. You are the only one claiming you can prove god and you have failed every time, first by not understanding the principles you preach (entropy or cause and effect) and secondly for assuming a lot of stuff all the time just like you are against methods of dating because we can't know whether radioactive decay has always been constant we also can't know if everything always had a cause and we can't certainly know, at least right now, what the first cause of the universe is, scientific research suggests it's the big bang not god. The reason there might not be a "God" theory is, at the time scientific theories started to come into being, most people understood that God exists. Science theories were developed by radical scientists who wanted to prove anything other than the existence of God, including that God does NOT exist. So, you might say that theories like Big Bang are theories against the existence of God. By attempting to stretch theories about entropy and cause and effect into laws that destroy the ways that entropy and cause and effect exist, science is simply making more theories. Entropy and C&E laws exist as laws differently than the theories about them. You are constantly trying to apply theoretical stuff in ways different than the laws state. You will always fail at this, even though you say that you aren't failing. Of course, when you can prove that they exist differently than the laws currently state, then the laws will be changed. ''most people understood that God exists.'' You mean most people believed in god for no reason. That has nothing to do with scientists, there is no scientific theory about god because god is not real. There is nothing to test the existence of god, that's why no one has proved god scientifically, well you think you have but in real life no one has. ''So, you might say that theories like Big Bang are theories against the existence of God.'' No I might not, big bang theory exists because it does, there is evidence for it and it wasn't fabricated with the intent to disprove god. As I said, there is no science on god, god is simply blind faith. Big Bang is a nice little theory all by itself. But it doesn't fit reality because it leaves out all kinds of things like life and intelligence and emotion, etc. So, it will always remain a theory until it is dropped, after people get sick of it bouncing uselessly around in their text books. The science laws of entropy, cause and effect, and complexity will remain, and continue to prove the existence of God, long after the theories about why these laws exist fade away just like BB theory will. No it doesn't. You are the one saying that life and intelligence could not have originated by something other than a god but there is no evidence for that, life could have originated without a higher being intervening, you still miss evidence. Life and intelligence is greater complexity. There is no factual evidence anywhere that such higher complexity can come about by accident. Cause and effect is even a law that suggests that all things are programmed... if you simply look at it. Then, if you study C&E, you see that all things are programed. You can guess that high complexity can come about from lower complexity. But it hasn't really been found that way. Rather, it is just the opposite. All our machines are less complex than we are. So, why would there be any difference in the rest of nature, since we are part of nature? Something way more complex put this whole universe together. That is what nature and the universe shows us. Call it what you will. But it is essentially God. ''Life and intelligence is greater complexity. There is no factual evidence anywhere that such higher complexity can come about by accident'' There is no indication that it doesn't either lol. What's your evidence that life comes from something other than an ''accident'' ''So, why would there be any difference in the rest of nature, since we are part of nature?'' Why would radioactive decay be different in the past than now? |
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Science doesn't understand because reality is way beyond its ability to understand. Just look at the crazy stuff in science theories to understand this about science. Let me FTFY religion doesn't understand because reality is way beyond its ability to understand. Just look at the crazy stuff in the bible to understand this about religion. Religion doesn't understand because religion is for believing. Understanding is for science... which doesn't understand because of the great complexity. How do we know science doesn't understand? If science understood, we would all be living 500 to a thousand years, minimum. Science is too dumb to figure it out. ''If science understood, we would all be living 500 to a thousand years'' Where do you get those numbers from? How do you know humans are even able to live for so long even if science was fully advanced the human body may have limits and even if science hasn't done that yet, flying to space seems to me like a very huge advancement, more than anything religion has done for humanity which is nothing, no advancements, no inventions no applications with religion. |
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Do you believe in god? If you do, why do you believe? (give a few reasons)
I don't believe in god. But I do believe in God. I believe in God for He has made wonderful and marvelous things in our lives. He is our provider and my bestfriend. He has showed miracles in our lives. I believe in Him for He is the only one who can bring salvation. I believe in Him because He is my Lord and King. Can you give examples of these miracles god has showed to you? Make a star. No cheating. Make it from scratch. No cold fusion machines allowed. Can't, can you? Miracle. Make a rock. No cheating. Make it from scratch. No boulder busters allowed. Can't, can you? Miracle. Make a tree. No cheating. Make it from scratch. No seeds allowed. Can't, can you? Miracle. Make a microbe. No cheating. Make it from scratch. No lab with DNA strand manipulation tools. Can't, can you? Miracle. Make a molecule. No cheating. Make it from scratch. No atoms or subatomic particles allowed. Can't, can you? Miracle. The universe is a miracle. There is no way it could have come about except via a gigantic miracle. Make intelligence. No cheating. Make it from scratch. No miracles allowed. Can't, can you? Miracle. If god made all these miracles then god is biggest miracle himself. And only god can make big miracles? So who made god? He was there always? Then why could't have universe excited always containing ingredients to form stars and trees? We don't know enough about God to be able to tell if He is a miracle. But it seems like He is, because we can't seem to reproduce Him. God tells us in at least one holy book that He always existed. Otherwise we wouldn't know it. The universe, stars and trees, etc., are complex things. We can tell how complex they are by the fact that we can't duplicate them. We simply aren't smart enough... at least not yet. Entropy reduces complexity to simplicity. Entropy disperses and diffuses all things with all other things. The fact that complexity remains as highly complex as it is, shows that the universe had a beginning. If it didn't, everything would have been reduced to ultra-simplicity by entropy, long ago, and even the intelligence to communicate among ourselves would be gone. The beginning of the universe wasn't very far in the past. We can tell by the great amount of complexity that remains. We don't know enough about god to assert he is real either. God is fiction and so is all the other hundreds of religions, if only 1 true god existed there wouldn't be more religions and gods. |
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^^^ Stop pretending that scientists are just fucking dumb and don't understand, they're liars involved in a massive conspiracy.
You are so playful. What's the matter? Did you miss breakfast at the funny farm? Scientists have proven long ago that the earth is a globe. Incorrect assumptions such as the Suns rays hitting the Earth in parallel led to erroneous proofs that include Eratosthenes story of a boy down a well: No assumptions involved. I showed you how it works: Take a look at the disk of the sun, no matter the size or distance. Select a point - point A - on the disk of the sun. The sun's rays don't simply shoot out from point A in one direction. Rather, they shoot out from point A in multitudes of directions at almost exactly the same time.
Now, select another point on the disk of the sun - point B. The sun's rays shoot out from point B in multitudes of directions at almost exactly the same time, just like they do in point A. Some of the rays from point B are parallel to some of the rays from point A. Others are not parallel.
The sun has countless numbers of points like point A and point B. Some of the sun's rays shoot out from all these points parallel to each other; some not parallel.
At any distance from the sun - 93 million miles for GE, or just a few thousand for FE - the rays interact according to Bernoulli's Principle. Bernoulli's Principle causes some of the rays that are nearly parallel to become parallel. When these rays strike the atmosphere, the atmosphere breaks them up so that some of them become scattered, while others remain parallel, and still others that weren't parallel before the scattering, DO become parallel.
Even if the sun were as close as the FE people suggest, the atmosphere and Bernoulli's Principle would still scatter some of the rays while causing others to be parallel.
The point is, the idea of parallel or scattered sun's rays can't assist in proving or disproving FE or GE... at least not in the ways that FE people use the idea. Problem is he claims all these crazy things that can easily be proved with photos or videos yet there are no photos of the flat earth, no videos of the sun being so close or the ice wall or the dome |
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