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37061  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Why do islam hates people? on: March 29, 2015, 04:24:16 PM
Quote from: BADecker on March 28, 2015, 07:32:14 PM
Mistake: doesn't express that Jesus made no mistakes... not even one... not even a little one.

I will have to take a look on it. Don't want to comment without reference. Smiley


agreed. no where did the Quraan say Jesus made mistakes. because he really did not make any mistake.
he did not die but was elevated to come back later.

do you know why in most sci-fi movies you see they show you a mosqito or a fly with a camera on it and it can really fly? because in reality it cannot be done, and they have been trying to prove that since decades ago.. now the question is why

Sahih International: And there is no creature on [or within] the earth or bird that flies with its wings except [that they are] communities like you. We have not neglected in the Register a thing. Then unto their Lord they will be gathered.

they have been trying to prove the Quraan wrong for decades. that they can create the wings of a fly. but till now, they could not and wont be able to

It's not that the Quran hasn't been proven wrong. It's simply that Muslims don't know or don't care that it is wrong.

Smiley
37062  Other / Off-topic / Re: Scientific proof that God exists? on: March 29, 2015, 04:20:30 PM

Hey you wanted to make a list of fallacies in that link? You dont need to, here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fallacies

You can find them all.


This makes me smile lol

The list isn't complete.   Smiley

Maybe, but it has all your fallacies in it Smiley

If the list had the biggest fallacy of all, it wouldn't be worthy anything... even though it isn't worth much as it is. The biggest fallacy? Itself.

Smiley
37063  Other / Off-topic / Re: Scientific proof that God exists? on: March 29, 2015, 02:45:15 AM

So then according to your logic, the devil has some power over god, since he created destruction. And also, you contradicted yourself, again, you said earlier that God created nature which you believe to be supernatural. The definition of destruction is: the action or process of causing so much damage to something that it no longer exists or cannot be repaired. That can pertain to death, disease, etc, all of which are apart of nature. But, you said the devil created destruction not god, but then you earlier said that god created nature...Which one is it? You're basically putting the devil in the bible on parity with god in the bible. Wow, are you really this clueless?

Besides that, have you honestly even read the bible to which you mindlessly believe in? The god in the bible has destroyed more innocent people than Satan did. Yes read that again, the god in the bible has killed more innocent people than the devil in the bible. He's killed innocent children, old women, old men, young men, animals, but not young women, he left them to get raped.

Face it, he's an evil god. Your own words are hurting your nonsensical argument.

Read this and go through your dear bible, http://dwindlinginunbelief.blogspot.com/2010/04/drunk-with-blood-gods-killings-in-bible.html

You are completely mistaken.

What God? You seem to believe that God exists after all. Since you believe He exists, why don't you start some new threads regarding His attributes and the way things work, so that people can find out all about Him? That way we can save this thread for what it asks, scientific proof that God exists, as I have at https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=737322.msg10718395#msg10718395.

Smiley

Hey you wanted to make a list of fallacies in that link? You dont need to, here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fallacies

You can find them all.


This makes me smile lol

The list isn't complete.   Smiley
37064  Other / Off-topic / Re: Scientific proof that God exists? on: March 29, 2015, 02:43:20 AM
Still waiting for the scientific proof. After all the thred is called that. Almost 200 pages with ribbish? Where is the proof?

The problem with the idea of proof is, people are built in ways that make them so extremely stubborn that millions of pieces of evidence could jump right up and bite them in the left eye, and that still wouldn't be proof for them.

Smiley


Quote from: “Proof by Mathematical Induction.” California State University. sec.: 2. 09 Mar. 235. link=http://zimmer.csufresno.edu/~larryc/proofs/proofs.mathinduction.html
The Math Induction Strategy

Mathematical Induction works like this: Suppose you want to prove a theorem in the form "For all integers n greater than equal to a, P(n) is true". P(n) must be an assertion that we wish to be true for all n = a, a+1, ...; like a formula. You first verify the initial step. That is, you must verify that P(a) is true. Next comes the inductive step. Here you must prove "If there is a k, greater than or equal to a, for which P(k) is true, then for this same k, P(k+1) is true."

Since you have verified P(a), it follows from the inductive step that P(a+1) is true, and hence, P(a+2) is true, and hence P(a+3) is true, and so on. In this way the theorem has been proved.

(Red colorization mine.)

“The problem with the idea of proof is” (BADecker) that infinite physical evidence cannot be considered, simultaneously, by a finite physical system.

Yet the qualities of the finite system can strongly suggest that there is an infinite system.

Smiley


Code:
𝑘 ∶ *0 = 𝑘 ⁄ *0 = 𝑘(1 ⁄ *0) = 𝑘*0⁻¹ = 𝑘(0 + ⅟₀)⁻¹ = 𝑘⅟₀⁻¹ = 𝑘(0⁻¹)⁻¹ = 𝑘0⁻¹⁽⁻¹⁾ = 𝑘0¹ = 𝑘0 = 0

Finite evidence (here, “suggest[ion]” [BADecker]) equates to a lack of evidence relative to absolute evidence.

The same qualities in people that cause them to seek out information, and test out new math, and determine the principles of quantum mechanics probability so that it can suggest almost anything, are the exact principles of scientific proof for many things, even though these qualities may not have been set to exact science, yet. If we didn't have them, there would be no science whatsoever.

Smiley
37065  Other / Off-topic / Re: Is Holocaust a Hoax ? on: March 29, 2015, 02:37:58 AM
Alfred Hitchcock thought it was real. - https://www.freedomsphoenix.com/News/148284-2014-01-08-alfred-hitchcocks-unseen-holocaust-documentary-to-be-screened.htm.

Smiley
37066  Other / Off-topic / Re: 7 Billion people on Earth & the exponential function on: March 29, 2015, 02:32:51 AM
Don't worry. We are on the verge of finding the cure for old age, so that people can live a lot longer... maybe never die.

Now, you are probably asking, How is that ever going to solve the overpopulation problem? Here's how.

Scientists, engineers and inventors die. New scientists, engineers and inventors come to take their place. The new guys (and gals) have to learn all the stuff over, and they never get to the point of expanding their thinking far enough to make tremendous strides in new science.

If scientists, engineers and inventors could live a lot longer, they would have the chance to mature their knowledge and thinking into methods for safely taking us to the stars. Would there ever come a time when we would out-populate the universe? Yes, and it would be in our lifetimes... if we lived forever.

Smiley

I understand your point. But there is merit to the idea that progress is only made when the older generations die. Younger generations are more inclined to accept new possibilities. And try out new things.



Except that, what will it be like when the older generation doesn't age? There are a lot of older generation motorcycle gang people. Younger folks don't seem to like the idea so much. Who is more daring? The only reason older folks do do as much skydiving is because they are not as springy, physically, and they know it.

The new things an ageless generation might try, might not be as daring, but they just might have more thought behind them because there has been more time to think.

In politics and business, mostly the older generation runs things. They simply aren't moving ahead as fast as they once were. If they had the energy of youth, combined with the wisdom and experience of what works, wouldn't they try new things more than the younger generation?

We don't know. The baby boomers have experience of massive wars. Does this slow them down? Or does it stimulate them to think harder? Questions.

Smiley
37067  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Decentralized Army on: March 28, 2015, 08:13:38 PM
Hows about a decentralized army which instead of regular armies could protect their baker using the Darkleaks back-end code (www.darkleaks.com)?

People would pledge a small amount of bitcoin to claim a protection for an irregular army. This would ampute more power from governments who are illegitimate imao.

What do you think? Discuss.

How about getting rid of all laws that infringe on our right to own guns and ammo, an carry it/them any way we want at any time.

Better yet, require the carrying of a minimum of a .357 Magnum when off our residence.

We don't need any army to protect us. With training, we are our army, just the same as it always has been and always will be.

Smiley
37068  Other / Politics & Society / Re: USA to be dismantled by internal & external threats on: March 28, 2015, 08:08:55 PM
If we take away their ability to tax, they fail.

Indeed the only potential solution is technological as I have always said since 2013 on this forum. And Bitcoin is not currently anonymous.

The elite laugh at all the other noise about legal tax resistance you wrote (for a reality check go visit Peter Schiff's dad in prison or listen to what the former IRS tax commissioner told Aaron Russo in Yiddish on camera). They love to see the pigs squeal in vain before they are harvested. The elite are preparing for all forms of resistance and they can't do everything instantly, but they are preparing for the right time to implement their objectives.

Westerners have not experienced war. An EMP attack won't be propaganda. It will be real survival instincts taking over. Even you might be glad when the Chinese arrive to restore order and feed you. Especially after they have turned the uncontrolled area farms into uninhabitable war zones, as they righteously attempt to restore order (imagine foraging gangs stealing food and raping people in these areas and thus U.N. forces will demand to confiscate all guns which of course the patriots will resist). The public in the cities will support the U.N. forces and the restoration of order under a temporary martial law which requires guns be "temporarily" confiscated. Katrina was a dry run test, and they did "temporarily" confiscate guns.

U.N. Agenda 21



It's one thing to warn people, even with details. But it is entirely wrong to scare them so badly that they panic or freeze, thereby becoming prey for the enemy.

We're all probably going to die. So far, there doesn't seem to be any way out of it. So, let's fight. When it comes down to it, a whole lot of us will fight. All this talk about "we.are.fucked" is crap designed to scare us into submission.

Whose side are you on?

Smiley
37069  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Why do islam hates people? on: March 28, 2015, 07:32:14 PM

Can you show me one mistake from it? There is no human-errors in it which shows it isn't written by a human unlike new Bible and other holy books. Old holy books from real prophets are words of God but we can't find unedited holy books now.

Mistake: Doesn't express that Jesus is God along with His Father and the Holy Spirit. Together they are God. Apart, each of them is God. Yet only One God, not three Gods. Miracle.

Mistake: Doesn't express that Jesus died, arose again, and is alive now.

Mistake: doesn't express that Jesus made no mistakes... not even one... not even a little one.

Mistake: Doesn't express that when Jesus lived and then died, He was taking the punishment for the sins of all the people that ever lived and will live.

Mistake: Doesn't express that when Jesus arose from death, He was showing that He has power even over death.

Mistake: Doesn't express that the only way to Heaven is to accept the work that Jesus did for the forgiveness of wrongdoing.

Mistake: Doesn't point to the Bible as the only true Word of God.

Lots of mistakes. The list goes on and on, including that the universe as we know it is not billions of years old, but is at absolute most only 25,000, but is probably only 6,000.

Smiley
37070  Other / Off-topic / Re: Scientific proof that God exists? on: March 28, 2015, 02:33:49 AM

So then according to your logic, the devil has some power over god, since he created destruction. And also, you contradicted yourself, again, you said earlier that God created nature which you believe to be supernatural. The definition of destruction is: the action or process of causing so much damage to something that it no longer exists or cannot be repaired. That can pertain to death, disease, etc, all of which are apart of nature. But, you said the devil created destruction not god, but then you earlier said that god created nature...Which one is it? You're basically putting the devil in the bible on parity with god in the bible. Wow, are you really this clueless?

Besides that, have you honestly even read the bible to which you mindlessly believe in? The god in the bible has destroyed more innocent people than Satan did. Yes read that again, the god in the bible has killed more innocent people than the devil in the bible. He's killed innocent children, old women, old men, young men, animals, but not young women, he left them to get raped.

Face it, he's an evil god. Your own words are hurting your nonsensical argument.

Read this and go through your dear bible, http://dwindlinginunbelief.blogspot.com/2010/04/drunk-with-blood-gods-killings-in-bible.html

You are completely mistaken.

What God? You seem to believe that God exists after all. Since you believe He exists, why don't you start some new threads regarding His attributes and the way things work, so that people can find out all about Him? That way we can save this thread for what it asks, scientific proof that God exists, as I have at https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=737322.msg10718395#msg10718395.

Smiley
37071  Other / Politics & Society / Re: USA to be dismantled by internal & external threats on: March 28, 2015, 02:25:38 AM
At what point does expressing massive amounts of information that you can't do anything about, become fear in the hearts of the people so that the people are demoralized?

If the enemy without and within was ready, they would have struck. They wouldn't have waited. What they have is a shell. The shell is the fact that as they prepare against us, we find out and prepare against them. They are helped because there are so many people who go into panic mode from the information in their shell. Much of what the enemy has is propaganda that causes fear.

Do you want to do something about the enemy? Keep on using and spreading Bitcoin. When they come after you for not paying the appropriate tax, use the freedom you have to conquer them.

The 9th Amendment =
Quote
The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.
We set up the government. We are above it. The government didn't exist before we set it up. We lose nothing by setting it up. Taxes are not a legal requirement except if we volunteer.

The 10th Amendment =
Quote
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.
It is the same for the States. And it is confirmation for the people. There is no place in the Constitution where you or I or any other man or woman has turned over authority of ourselves and our property to the government. The government gets its authority from our voluntary giving of it to them.

The 7th Amendment =
Quote
In Suits at common law, where the value in controversy shall exceed twenty dollars, the right of trial by jury shall be preserved, and no fact tried by a jury, shall be otherwise re-examined in any Court of the United States, than according to the rules of the common law.
There are certain principles of law that cannot be denied.

If you are accused by THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA for violating a tax law, in court first ask if the case can be appealed. If they tell you that it can, require them to try you in a court of common law where there will be a jury trial and the decision can't be overturned, as the 7th Amendment states.

The plaintiff must appear. Since you are standing as a man or woman, present, without representation, without representing yourself, a man or woman MUST come against you. A man or woman plaintiff must come against you. Since THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA is not a man or woman, it can't appear. You win. Sue it for false claim. Sue it for all your back taxes paid.

See how to do it.
http://www.myprivateaudio.com/Karl-Lentz.html = Angela Stark's Talkshoe.

http://www.youtube.com/channel/UC5duR4OvEHHxOSdEZhANETw = TrustInAllLaw snippets of Karl's audios.

http://www.broadmind.org/ = Karl's main page.

http://www.unkommonlaw.co.uk/ = Karl's United Kingdom page.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC5duR4OvEHHxOSdEZhANETw = TrustInAllLaw snippets page.

http://www.youtube.com/user/765736/videos?view=0&live_view=500&flow=grid&sort=da = Craig Lynch's snippets page.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HOkAHRzuiOA&list=PLHrkQxgz0mg6kUBciD-HIvTXByqjcIZ-D = Ten great Youtube videos, might be the best introduction to Karl.

http://www.talkshoe.com/talkshoe/web/talkCast.jsp?masterId=127469&cmd=tc = Karl's Talkshoe site.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iua56K4Mysk = Karl Lentz - The Brian Bonar Incident - YouTube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdHLHWS4gPE = Lentz-Sense - don't be a More~On - YouTube.


Other Info

http://voidjudgments.com/ = The Secret is most judgments are Void on their face and not merely voidable.

http://educationcenter2000.com/Trinsey-v-Paglario.htm = Trinsey v. Pagliaro - Attorneys cannot "speak" in common law trials if the one who is bringing the suit orders it. Holding from Trinsey v. Pagliaro: "An attorney for the plaintiff cannot admit evidence into the court. He is either an attorney or a witness."


Start now, while you can with your studies. It is very simple, so simple that it is difficult, winning against government. Get rid of your former thinking, and learn how to stand as a human being and win.

If we take away their ability to tax, they fail.

Smiley
37072  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Why do islam hates people? on: March 27, 2015, 04:07:42 PM
probably you should add the "incident" of the suicidal plane crash too.. when "someone" kill 150 people they are just someone, probably without any religion.
when someone with a muslim name does the MASS KILLING of 12 people they are terrorist.


I do not know maybe that will be added to the list.  There is a report that the copilot had converted to a radical Islam sect.  Let's wait and see.  

I don't hate people,What I have been taught from cruel experience is hatred of peoples actions,such as corruption,manipulation,and bigotry for personal gain.
 I have to live in this world that the ones who practice these things visit upon myself and others who think like me.
 I wish very much it wasn't this way,but it will remain this way until those fundamental concepts change and the Human race actually evolves to a more enlightend state of being.

Here is a portrait of an Islamic hater.

http://yourdailymuslim.com/2014/12/02/your-daily-muslim-648-khalil-attieh/

and another...

http://yourdailymuslim.com/2014/11/20/your-daily-muslim-642-jimmy-stepney/

I wonder if there is something about the Koran and it's teachings that affects different people differently.  Most everybody eats peanuts, but some people are severely allergic.  They eat peanuts, then get very sick and if not rushed to the hospital die.  Maybe a few simply convert to Islam, read the Koran and become violent.

Obviously the whole issue of Islamic violent minority is multifactorial, though.

This is an interesting thought. Perhaps complex combinations of certain sounds could do the same thing. Like somebody reading the Quran out loud.

Smiley
It is a testable hypothesis, therefore it has merit.  Reminds me now of a similar theory, presented in the context of religion evoking behavior patterns, religion as a virus... in the sci fi book by Neil Stephenson, Snow Crash.

Saying something was a testable hypothesis and or doing such examination is a different world view than that of the naive, faithful followers of one or another religion.  It's also quite different than the "us versus them" tribal behavior that underlies a lot of human behavior.

All revolving around the differences in religions, especially when spoken in the different languages - different combinations of sounds, no matter how imperfectly spoken. How interesting.

Smiley
37073  Other / Off-topic / Re: Scientific proof that God exists? on: March 27, 2015, 04:03:29 PM
Why do people need to know about god for salvation? i never understood that like if you are a good person it wont matter if you dont believe in God, thats just retarded

People can't be good enough.

God built the universe with perfection. Not one law of the universe fails. This is why you can do scientific experiments over and over. If you do them exactly the same, they produce exactly the same results.

The mistake that can't be perfected by mankind is love for God. It is the foundational, core law of the universe. The second is love for mankind. Even though one might be able to come back from making these core mistakes so that he doesn't make them anymore, once it is done, it is don. Time cannot be altered, at least not by anything that we have the ability to do.

Only God has the power to make the correction. He did it in Jesus God, who took the punishment that we would receive as a natural result of our mistake-making.

Since the foundational law of the universe is mankind's love for God, we need to understand that God exists so that we can attempt to love Him. Denying Him is denying our only source of salvation, since we can't save ourselves.

Smiley
37074  Other / Off-topic / Re: Scientific proof that God exists? on: March 27, 2015, 03:51:06 PM


Quote
Number 1 is wrong, "1. The Supernatural Does Not Exist," because the whole of nature is supernatural. In addition, simply because one decides that the supernatural doesn't exist, thereby ignoring it, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Thus, God can exist.


Oh, "nature" is entirely "supernatural" now?

No.  It isn't.  Nature is natural specifically because it isn't supernatural.

You should've taken my earlier suggestion and just reduce all your vocabulary to one word, and just repeat that word over and over.  It really doesn't matter what that word is or what it means because you're just going to have it mean whatever you want it to mean.

You're going on ignore for a while.  You make my eyes bleed.  

You are finally starting to understand that the only understanding of why things exist, and the only proof for their existence, is the fact that they do exist. We have no other proof.

This means, that as far as our understanding goes, all of nature is supernatural. This points at the existence of God more than ever.

Smiley

Even Descartes would frown at what I just read(And he was wrong in his philosophy/for assuming that the mind is automatically metaphysical, but wont get into that). What you've said makes no sense, at all, you're claiming that something exists because you can see/hear/taste it with your five senses, all of which may be misleading you causing you to believe that these things exist when they don't(Your perception of things), matter itself might not even exist, so you cannot prove your own existence by just looking at something at saying it exists,(This is basic philosophy. ) Ever heard of Schizophrenia where those with it can see things that aren't really there? You should really look it up.
All proof for anything is based on the fact that the elements of that proof exist. So, if you attempt to prove that those elements of proof exist, you need other elements of proof to prove them. But what about those elements of proof? How far do you have to go before you get to some elements that are so foundational that they don't need proof of existence. So far, the only two things that we can possibly come up with are God and the supernatural.


Quote

Wait actually no, let's go with what you said. So god created disease, he created deformities, he created all those negative things that are around in the world today(And to which you classify as "supernatural"), but you consider him a good god? Quite clearly that means he is an evil one. Thanks for proving yourself wrong BADecker, again.

God created many elements, all of them good, but some that could be manipulated into evil if someone had a mind to do such. God's enemy, the devil (a formerly good angel who corrupted himself), did exactly that. In his desire to create something, he created the only thing that was not created by God... destruction. That's why his name is Destroyer in the Revelation in the Bible.

Smiley

Not true. Things that hinder another living organism such as a disease, has no "good" elements to it, and god created that disease as you say, which is why your god is an evil god. Innocent children, people, die from diseases and ailments everyday, you said it yourself, god created everything right? So then he created these diseases that lead to the deaths of innocent millions every year. What a good god you have (sarcasm).

I could agree with you that disease has no good (but it might have some good that we are not aware of).

Since I didn't say that God created disease, why are you trying to say that I essentially said that God is evil? (Thank you for agreeing with me that God exists. People need to know that God exists so that they have reason to seek Him for their salvation.)

Smiley

So you continue contradicting yourself. You said this:
This means, that as far as our understanding goes, all of nature is supernatural. This points at the existence of God more than ever.
What's your point? God exists outside of the universe, besides filling the universe.


Quote

You also claimed that God made the supernatural, so that means god made disease, etc. That means god is an evil god, get it? You keep contradicting yourself, it's almost as if you're clueless on the topic at hand and you're just pulling out random mumbo jumbo to write down.(You are)


Again, you are claiming I said something I didn't say. So, you prove yourself to be a deceptive LIAR. Does it matter, that you are a liar? Probably you are right at home there.

God made only good things. The devil corrupted the things to make them evil... to destroy them. God turned much of the evil back into good. It is way more complicated than what you are saying... including not part of this topic.

Smiley
37075  Other / Off-topic / Re: Scientific proof that God exists? on: March 27, 2015, 03:13:55 PM
most of the "scientific" and "inelligent" arguments for proof of god have made me LOL my ass off.. anyone seen that vid where the man is claiming god exists and proof can be found by holding a banana?.. "look how naturally the banana fits into the human hand, it can only of been god" or something like that.. lol

I can understand your position. The U.S. warned the Japanese government that it was going to make examples of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. The Japanese just laughed. Now they are some of the greatest nuclear theorists around.

It is only after you start examining things that you might become interested in not laughing,

Smiley
37076  Other / Off-topic / Re: Scientific proof that God exists? on: March 27, 2015, 03:10:44 PM


Quote
Number 1 is wrong, "1. The Supernatural Does Not Exist," because the whole of nature is supernatural. In addition, simply because one decides that the supernatural doesn't exist, thereby ignoring it, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Thus, God can exist.


Oh, "nature" is entirely "supernatural" now?

No.  It isn't.  Nature is natural specifically because it isn't supernatural.

You should've taken my earlier suggestion and just reduce all your vocabulary to one word, and just repeat that word over and over.  It really doesn't matter what that word is or what it means because you're just going to have it mean whatever you want it to mean.

You're going on ignore for a while.  You make my eyes bleed.  

You are finally starting to understand that the only understanding of why things exist, and the only proof for their existence, is the fact that they do exist. We have no other proof.

This means, that as far as our understanding goes, all of nature is supernatural. This points at the existence of God more than ever.

Smiley

Even Descartes would frown at what I just read(And he was wrong in his philosophy/for assuming that the mind is automatically metaphysical, but wont get into that). What you've said makes no sense, at all, you're claiming that something exists because you can see/hear/taste it with your five senses, all of which may be misleading you causing you to believe that these things exist when they don't(Your perception of things), matter itself might not even exist, so you cannot prove your own existence by just looking at something at saying it exists,(This is basic philosophy. ) Ever heard of Schizophrenia where those with it can see things that aren't really there? You should really look it up.
All proof for anything is based on the fact that the elements of that proof exist. So, if you attempt to prove that those elements of proof exist, you need other elements of proof to prove them. But what about those elements of proof? How far do you have to go before you get to some elements that are so foundational that they don't need proof of existence. So far, the only two things that we can possibly come up with are God and the supernatural.


Quote

Wait actually no, let's go with what you said. So god created disease, he created deformities, he created all those negative things that are around in the world today(And to which you classify as "supernatural"), but you consider him a good god? Quite clearly that means he is an evil one. Thanks for proving yourself wrong BADecker, again.

God created many elements, all of them good, but some that could be manipulated into evil if someone had a mind to do such. God's enemy, the devil (a formerly good angel who corrupted himself), did exactly that. In his desire to create something, he created the only thing that was not created by God... destruction. That's why his name is Destroyer in the Revelation in the Bible.

Smiley

Not true. Things that hinder another living organism such as a disease, has no "good" elements to it, and god created that disease as you say, which is why your god is an evil god. Innocent children, people, die from diseases and ailments everyday, you said it yourself, god created everything right? So then he created these diseases that lead to the deaths of innocent millions every year. What a good god you have (sarcasm).

I could agree with you that disease has no good (but it might have some good that we are not aware of).

Since I didn't say that God created disease, why are you trying to say that I essentially said that God is evil? (Thank you for agreeing with me that God exists. People need to know that God exists so that they have reason to seek Him for their salvation.)

Smiley
37077  Other / Off-topic / Re: Scientific proof that God exists? on: March 27, 2015, 03:01:20 PM


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Number 1 is wrong, "1. The Supernatural Does Not Exist," because the whole of nature is supernatural. In addition, simply because one decides that the supernatural doesn't exist, thereby ignoring it, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Thus, God can exist.


Oh, "nature" is entirely "supernatural" now?

No.  It isn't.  Nature is natural specifically because it isn't supernatural.

You should've taken my earlier suggestion and just reduce all your vocabulary to one word, and just repeat that word over and over.  It really doesn't matter what that word is or what it means because you're just going to have it mean whatever you want it to mean.

You're going on ignore for a while.  You make my eyes bleed.  

You are finally starting to understand that the only understanding of why things exist, and the only proof for their existence, is the fact that they do exist. We have no other proof.

This means, that as far as our understanding goes, all of nature is supernatural. This points at the existence of God more than ever.

Smiley

Even Descartes would frown at what I just read(And he was wrong in his philosophy/for assuming that the mind is automatically metaphysical, but wont get into that). What you've said makes no sense, at all, you're claiming that something exists because you can see/hear/taste it with your five senses, all of which may be misleading you causing you to believe that these things exist when they don't(Your perception of things), matter itself might not even exist, so you cannot prove your own existence by just looking at something at saying it exists,(This is basic philosophy. ) Ever heard of Schizophrenia where those with it can see things that aren't really there? You should really look it up.
All proof for anything is based on the fact that the elements of that proof exist. So, if you attempt to prove that those elements of proof exist, you need other elements of proof to prove them. But what about those elements of proof? How far do you have to go before you get to some elements that are so foundational that they don't need proof of existence? So far, the only two things that we can possibly come up with are God and the supernatural.


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Wait actually no, let's go with what you said. So god created disease, he created deformities, he created all those negative things that are around in the world today(And to which you classify as "supernatural"), but you consider him a good god? Quite clearly that means he is an evil one. Thanks for proving yourself wrong BADecker, again.

God created many elements, all of them good, but some that could be manipulated into evil if someone had a mind to do such. God's enemy, the devil (a formerly good angel who corrupted himself), did exactly that. In his desire to create something, he created the only thing that was not created by God... destruction. That's why his name is Destroyer in the Revelation in the Bible.

Smiley
37078  Other / Off-topic / Re: Scientific proof that God exists? on: March 27, 2015, 02:50:12 PM
Want to make an easy cool $1mil? (Originally it was only 1/4mil but has since been increased to a full mil.)
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We are willing to pay any individual *$250,000 if they can produce empirical evidence which proves that Jesus is not the son of the Flying Spaghetti Monster.
http://boingboing.net/2005/08/19/boing-boings-250000.html

Or you could go for the original challenge from Dr. Kent Hovind worth $250k.
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Creation Science Evangelism founder Kent Hovind has a cool quarter of a million smackers on the line for “anyone who can give any empirical evidence (scientific proof) for evolution.”
http://skeptoid.com/blog/2013/08/19/i-will-pay-you-to-prove-me-wrong/

Whoever wins could post the results here in this thread and then this thread could be closed once and for all. So what do you say folks? Put you mouth where the money is! Wink

I wonder if the constellation, Andromeda, has any electrons in it. Could somebody please prove it for me?

Smiley
37079  Other / Off-topic / Re: Scientific proof that God exists? on: March 27, 2015, 02:37:05 PM
So anything that you dont like you call it off-topic, well thats one way to handle it

Lol.  This entire thread is offtopic.  BADecker was proven wrong 100+ pages ago.

He just posts so his priest won't kick him out of the cult.  Each member needs to try and convert so many souls each week.   Wink

Now you are doing it. Rather than show any evidence for or against God like BADecker shows for God at https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=737322.msg10718395#msg10718395, you attempt to badmouth him.

Smiley
http://www.biblicalnonsense.com/
This is a Biblical argument - off-topic - except for the last paragraph at http://www.biblicalnonsense.com/outro.html where the author expresses that he believes God exists:
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One day, perhaps, we’ll all be free of conditioned thinking and learn to rely on observable and testable evidence when examining religious claims. One day, perhaps, we can all peacefully coexist. Whatever force might be watching us now probably realizes that the majority of us are currently incapable of achieving these goals. If this being is observing our planet during a search for an enlightened race that’s ready for the deepest secrets of the universe, it should probably try us again later.


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Not sure what this has to do with proving the existence of God, except that, as a widely-held religion, Christianity (along with many of the other religions) is strong evidence that God exists, simply because this many people believe that He does.


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Number 1 is wrong, "1. The Supernatural Does Not Exist," because the whole of nature is supernatural. In addition, simply because one decides that the supernatural doesn't exist, thereby ignoring it, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Thus, God can exist.

And simply because someone says it exists doesnt mean it exists right? Right. Mine wasn't a claim of existence or non-existence. Mine was a claim countering the absolute impossibility of existence.

Number 2 is wrong, "2. Miracles Didn’t Happen Then, And Don’t Happen Now." Doctors in hospitals all over the place can't explain why some people get well overnight, and others die for no known reason. Thus, miracles are not proven to NOT exist, and seem to. Since miracles can exist, so can God.

Not being able to explain something doesnt make it supernatural or a miracle, we just simply dont know some things Exactly! My point entirely with regard to scientific observation. I was countering a definitive statement.

Number 3 is questionable, "3. Dependence Of Consciousness On The Physical Brain, Makes Life After Death Unlikely." Simply because consciousness seems to disappear as the brain deteriorates, doesn't mean that the elements of consciousness dissipate at the same time. In other words, consciousness may easily be held outside of the brain, and simply uses the brain for operating, just like you use your computer to get your post up on the forum. This leaves lots of room for the possibility that God exists, and doesn't prove He doesn't.

consciousness doesnt just seem to dissapear, it dissapears because we only have consciousness when we have a brain, chop your head off and write something and i will believe you. We don't know this. We don't know for a fact that conscious doesn't go elsewhere.

Number 4 is wrong, "4. Existence Of Evil In The World, Both Human-Created And Natural, Is More Likely In A Godless World," because in most of the big evil, wars, there are opponents. And the same is true for lots of the little evil - fights between people one way or another. Number 4 simply brings to light the evidence that God has an opponent who is evil. The religions often call the evil one the devil.

God is supposed to be a supernatarul and omnipotent therefore he shouldnt have any enemies That might seem logical. But because we are so extremely limited in our observation and knowledge of things around us, why are we so bold that we try to outguess something as great as God?

Number 5 doesn't really even fit, "5. Evolution Is More Likely In A Godless World," since, while I and others haven't debunked evolution at all, we have shown that there are so many holes in the evolutionary process as we know it, that there is no way to show that evolution produces anything other than a variety of changes, if that. In addition, even if science could come up with a viable evolutionary inanimate-to-life process, there is no way to tell if that is what really happened, because there are too many unknown variables that could have happened in the past. This shows the likelihood that God created it all.

Yeah because its easier to believe God created it all than believing evolution is just an incomplete theory? That has some holes but also has overwhelming evidence Evolution by some parts of its definition has been proven to exist. Evolution by its inanimate-to-life process definition not only has not been proven, but doesn't even have a plausible process in place whereby it could have happened. This means that it is a fiction in this way. Even if we had a plausible inanimate-to-life process in place for evolution, we would still need a time-viewer to be sure that this is the way it happened.

Number 6 is just goofy, "6. Divine Hiddenness: A Personal God That Wanted Loving Relationship With Human Beings Wouldn’t Be So Hidden," because it doesn't take into account the idea of a loving God giving our human machine bodies, and the whole of nature that supports us. There is no way to get anything like what we have in our bodies and nature if it hadn't been given to us. We enjoy life. It is a gift from Wherever. Because that "Wherever" is as great as it is, it fits the definition for the word "God."

I dont know wtf are you saying here What is a loving relationship with God like? Lots of religious people act like they have it. All of life is a gift, even though there is some bad in life. You have gifts from God, not because He hates you, but because He wants a loving relationship with you.

Number 7 is inconclusive, "7. The Religious Confusion In The World Is Incompatible With A God That Wants Us To Get It Right," because it doesn't take into account the religious ideas of an enemy fighting against God and man. Number 7 is a religious argument that suggests that the author has examined and expresses all the possibility of why a "God" would or would not do something. Thus, the author is holding himself/herself up as God, by expressing that he/she knows enough about this to conclude that God doesn't exist. Thus, the author is self-contradictory, as well.

God shouldnt let any enemy posion us then. God gave us greatness in that He gave us part of Himself. We are God's children. When you continue to fight against the existence of God, it is you who are poisoning yourself. God is trying to keep you from it.

Number 8 is completely wrong, "8. God’s Existence Cannot Be Rescued By Claiming The Need For A First Cause," because, even though the Big Bang might have been shown to be plausible, there are too many variables that could have existed in the distant past to absolutely KNOW that Big Bang is what happened for real. In addition, electric cosmos theory is proving far more practical than popular cosmological theory - http://electric-cosmos.org/indexOLD.htm. Thus, the idea of the Great First Cause stands stronger than ever.

No it doesnt, the idea of God being the first cause is something that has absolutly no proofs or evidence other than some philosophical thoughts Standing alone, cause and effect doesn't prove God. But when combined with the machine-like qualities of nature in the presence of the entropy that is all around us, there is absolutely no other explanation than God, the Great First Cause.

Number 9 is not even in the race, "9. God’s Existence Cannot Be Rescued By Claiming That Life Is So Improbable That It Could Only Come About If The Universe Were Fine Tuned By A Supernatural Force," because the odds are the fundamental thing that shows that the universe as we know it can't exist without a Great Something to have guided it all. Quantum math shows that there are countless probabilities behind everything, and in every direction. When quantum thinking is applied to the dimensions, dimensions that might be infinite but that we recognize only less than 30 of, the absolute NEED for something like God makes itself apparent.

You are saying that there are countless possibilities yet you want to believe just one of them, why? Simply because the countless possibilities don't allow anything to exist by probability. The only thing left is God.

Number 10 is wrong, "10. God’s Existence Cannot Be Rescued By Claiming That The Emergence of Life On Earth Demonstrates An Underlying Intelligent Design," because the author is admitting intelligent design. Even if it is nature that is the Intelligent Designer, nobody gets design without a designer. This points to the existence of God more than ever.

How do you know nothing gets a design without a designer, do you know everything that is in the universe and you know that everything has a designer? Take man out of the universe, and the question is irrelevant. Put man in the universe, and we see man design things, even something simple like the wheel. All man's designs are taken out of nature one way or another. There is design in nature. Man has proven that it takes intelligence to design.

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This is a mishmash of ideas that are at times religious, and at times on-topic. Some of these ideas overlap with what is written above.


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There you go

No, there YOU go.

 Wink

Thanks for helping me prove the existence of God even more.

Smiley
37080  Other / Off-topic / Re: Scientific proof that God exists? on: March 27, 2015, 02:07:09 PM


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Number 1 is wrong, "1. The Supernatural Does Not Exist," because the whole of nature is supernatural. In addition, simply because one decides that the supernatural doesn't exist, thereby ignoring it, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Thus, God can exist.


Oh, "nature" is entirely "supernatural" now?

No.  It isn't.  Nature is natural specifically because it isn't supernatural.

You should've taken my earlier suggestion and just reduce all your vocabulary to one word, and just repeat that word over and over.  It really doesn't matter what that word is or what it means because you're just going to have it mean whatever you want it to mean.

You're going on ignore for a while.  You make my eyes bleed.  

You are finally starting to understand that the only understanding of why things exist, and the only proof for their existence, is the fact that they do exist. We have no other proof.

This means, that as far as our understanding goes, all of nature is supernatural. This points at the existence of God more than ever.

Smiley

EDIT: I wouldn't want your brain to be overwhelmed with a great reality like the supernatural quality of everything. Put me on ignore, 'cause the truth might just drive you mad. You need to condition yourself to the truth so that you can take it.
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