You are trying to solve two problems. First, provide a method for fast transactions. Second, find a way to hold a fixed value.
The first problem requires a third party that is willing to take on the rollback risk of a transaction.
The second was solved centuries ago by King Canute.
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Tell me how exchanging my work for dollars creates dollars (or at least gives them value, somehow) while exchanging my work for bitcoins does not.
... Your “challenge” is easily explainable if you understand the facts, I'm also interested in the answer to this question, could you please list the facts that explain your answer? Thanks. This is the complete OPPOSITE of what I said. Again, they both are the same thing, your value for a dollar is what you input to earn it, just like your value for a BTC is what you input to earn it. He is making an argument for argument's sake, not out of an attempt to understand. Why isn't the value of the dollar the value that the Bureau of Printing and Engraving puts into it? Why is it valued by the user instead of the creator? Now tell me why the exact opposite is true for bitcoins? Why is one currency valued at production cost while the other is valued at exchange cost?
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Except that it only makes sense to unlock when the exchange rate is exactly what it was when you locked. So, you are giving up the use of your bitcoins in exchange for the chance that they will be worth exactly the same amount at some point in the future.
Oh no. Not like that. Let's say that you lock in 1 bitcoin and get 150 NDC at a certain moment in time. Then after a month, the bitcoin you locked in is worth 200 NDC. You can then unlock your bitcoin in the system for 150 NDC. So there is zero risk for you to lock bitcoins into the system. So, the value of the NDC has fallen by 33%, but I don't have to take that loss, because I can get my BTC back for exactly the amount I paid for it? What if it went the other way? Say I buy 150 NDC for 1 BTC, then the exchange rate goes to 100 NDC/BTC. I can now sell my 150 NDC for 1.5 BTC, right? Or am I somehow forced to buy my own BTC back for 150 NDC? It's not the value of the NDC that has fallen. It's the value of the bitcoin that has become deflated. That's an important distinction. The new digital currency is simply a convenient 'mapping' into a inflation- and deflation-free space. So what the system does for you is preserving your right for that bitcoin, and regardless of its future value, lower or higher, you will always get the bitcoin back for exactly the same amount of NDC that you got in the first place. When the value of the bitcoin goes down compared to when you locked it into the system, then yes you will still have to unlock it for the original amount of NDC. But you are not forced to unlock the bitcoin when the value of it is low. You can wait until the value has increased again. Wouldn't it make more sense to leave my coin locked, and find someone else willing to buy my 150 NDC for 1.5 BTC?
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Except that it only makes sense to unlock when the exchange rate is exactly what it was when you locked. So, you are giving up the use of your bitcoins in exchange for the chance that they will be worth exactly the same amount at some point in the future.
Oh no. Not like that. Let's say that you lock in 1 bitcoin and get 150 NDC at a certain moment in time. Then after a month, the bitcoin you locked in is worth 200 NDC. You can then unlock your bitcoin in the system for 150 NDC. So there is zero risk for you to lock bitcoins into the system. So, the value of the NDC has fallen by 33%, but I don't have to take that loss, because I can get my BTC back for exactly the amount I paid for it? What if it went the other way? Say I buy 150 NDC for 1 BTC, then the exchange rate goes to 100 NDC/BTC. I can now sell my 150 NDC for 1.5 BTC, right? Or am I somehow forced to buy my own BTC back for 150 NDC?
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Except that it only makes sense to unlock when the exchange rate is exactly what it was when you locked. So, you are giving up the use of your bitcoins in exchange for the chance that they will be worth exactly the same amount at some point in the future.
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You just made a fool of yourself. It’s called monetary policy. http://www.federalreserve.gov/monetarypolicy/default.htmAlso, you are dead wrong about GDP, here’s a direct quote from the Bureau of Economic Analysis: Real gross domestic product -- the output of goods and services produced by labor and property located in the United States. Source http://www.bea.gov/newsreleases/national/gdp/gdpnewsrelease.htm the opening line. I’m tired of trying to educate you. You obviously have your mind made up and wish to stay ignorant. Do some research and learn about economics before you spout misinformation. Monetary policy is how they manipulate interest rates, which is not the money supply. You'd know that if you'd ever read the minutes of the FOMC meetings. Go find out why Bernake is called "Helicopter Ben". You might want to look into how GDP is actually calculated. I'll give you a hint, production is not part of it, but spending is. They could say that GDP is found by counting unicorns, but that doesn't change the math. What they actually do is much more important than what they say they do. Once again, you've done an excellent job dodging my direct challenge, so I'll issue it a third time. Tell me how exchanging my work for dollars creates dollars (or at least gives them value, somehow) while exchanging my work for bitcoins does not.
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So, you've invented the world's most complicated non-interest paying savings accounts?
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I'm not sure I see the point. It takes up one PCIe slot on your motherboard and provides one slot in an external case.
Oh, and you can build a whole new box for less than the $400 this thing costs.
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@zen thanks synthesizing the discussion - Subjective value cannot come to a consensus without some authority or "backing" by an already established good, ie prices can never stabilize with out a "peg" such as electricity or USD.
Isn't that the case with Gold? You could say that gold is backed by its industrial uses. But AFAIK the value of gold is much higher than had it not been used as a currency, so indeed the lion share's of gold's value does not come from backing. It gets worse. The price of A can't be stable unless it is pegged to the price of B. The price of B is stable because it is stable. All prices, of all things, in all places, and at all times, are backed by supply and demand only. Everything else is an illusion.
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Your post advocates a
(x) technical ( ) legislative ( ) market-based ( ) vigilante
approach to fighting spam. Your idea will not work. Here is why it won't work. (One or more of the following may apply to your particular idea, and it may have other flaws which used to vary from state to state before a bad federal law was passed.)
( ) Spammers can easily use it to harvest email addresses (X) Mailing lists and other legitimate email uses would be affected ( ) No one will be able to find the guy or collect the money ( ) It is defenseless against brute force attacks ( ) It will stop spam for two weeks and then we'll be stuck with it (X) Users of email will not put up with it ( ) Microsoft will not put up with it ( ) The police will not put up with it ( ) Requires too much cooperation from spammers (X) Requires immediate total cooperation from everybody at once (X) Many email users cannot afford to lose business or alienate potential employers ( ) Spammers don't care about invalid addresses in their lists ( ) Anyone could anonymously destroy anyone else's career or business
Specifically, your plan fails to account for
( ) Laws expressly prohibiting it ( ) Lack of centrally controlling authority for email ( ) Open relays in foreign countries ( ) Ease of searching tiny alphanumeric address space of all email addresses ( ) Asshats ( ) Jurisdictional problems (X) Unpopularity of weird new taxes (X) Public reluctance to accept weird new forms of money ( ) Huge existing software investment in SMTP ( ) Susceptibility of protocols other than SMTP to attack ( ) Willingness of users to install OS patches received by email (X) Armies of worm riddled broadband-connected Windows boxes ( ) Eternal arms race involved in all filtering approaches ( ) Extreme profitability of spam ( ) Joe jobs and/or identity theft ( ) Technically illiterate politicians ( ) Extreme stupidity on the part of people who do business with spammers ( ) Dishonesty on the part of spammers themselves ( ) Bandwidth costs that are unaffected by client filtering ( ) Outlook
and the following philosophical objections may also apply:
(X) Ideas similar to yours are easy to come up with, yet none have ever been shown practical ( ) Any scheme based on opt-out is unacceptable ( ) SMTP headers should not be the subject of legislation ( ) Blacklists suck ( ) Whitelists suck ( ) We should be able to talk about Viagra without being censored ( ) Countermeasures should not involve wire fraud or credit card fraud ( ) Countermeasures should not involve sabotage of public networks ( ) Countermeasures must work if phased in gradually (X) Sending email should be free ( ) Why should we have to trust you and your servers? ( ) Incompatiblity with open source or open source licenses ( ) Feel-good measures do nothing to solve the problem ( ) Temporary/one-time email addresses are cumbersome ( ) I don't want the government reading my email ( ) Killing them that way is not slow and painful enough
Furthermore, this is what I think about you:
(X) Sorry dude, but I don't think it would work. ( ) This is a stupid idea, and you're a stupid person for suggesting it. ( ) Nice try, assh0le! I'm going to find out where you live and burn your house down!
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Not even close. You'll top out around 300-310 per card. Odds are good that some of them won't even reach 270.
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I'm going to bold the parts of my comment that you ignored. Shit, I missed something. We started by wanting to lock the price of every product in the entire world into a fixed price for all eternity. Then there was a digression into anonymity and double spending. Now we've invented the website shopping cart with online payment processing. Were the intervening steps in other threads or something?
Well, with regards to the shopping cart and payment processing, this is like the twentieth thread I've read in the last week where someone felt obligated to tell the world that they discovered that a third party was necessary to assume the risk if neither party to a transaction is willing to keep it. On that point, you are totally correct. There is no rollback for bitcoin payments (yet). When you hit send, you are making an irreversible donation.
The benefits with the new digital currency would be: A) Stable value. The price for a product would be same today as tomorrow and the same next week and even in the years to come. The price could of course go up and down, but that would be based on the sellers choice, not something caused by inflation or deflation. B) Fast transactions. Secure fast payments that directly check for double-spending. C) Convenient value. No need for values with increasing decimals etc. And just for fun: A) requires that all prices be fixed all around the world, and until the end of time. Do you comprehend this? Do you understand what it means? B) is the job of a third party, not a currency. C) is really just a restatement of A, but it makes you sound like someone that failed out of math class in 4th grade.
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Ok, if you want to get into monetary policy, then sure, the Fed is responsible for the amount of circulation. They increase or decrease the amount based on a number of factors, but ultimately the GDP, i.e. the collective work of the US. So yeah, your work creates dollars.
You are completely 100% wrong on all points. The Federal Reserve Bank has nothing to do with the amount in circulation. (Go here if you'd like to know what they really do) GDP has nothing to do with work. (It measures spending ONLY) Work has nothing to do with dollar creation. And while I'm at it, this is wrong too: It just doesn't make sense economically to spend BTC today when you know tomorrow it will be worth 15+ percent more. I'm sure people HAVE used them for goods and services, but not in this current environment where we're seeing at least a dollar a day increase in value. First, no one knows what anything will be worth tomorrow. And second, people do things all the time that don't make sense economically. By the way, I would really like to get back to your insane (and I mean that clinically) notion that one currency is worth its production value, while another is worth its exchange value. In particular, I'd really love to hear how exchanging my work for dollars creates dollars (or at least gives them value, somehow) while exchanging my work for bitcoins does not. [edit: fixed misplaced quote tag]
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No no. I want to use one on the list lol. If you are familiar with BTCmine you make an account for yourself, then you create miner accounts. So for example I have 3 accounts for my two GPU's and CPU. The problem is, I can't log in visa-vi the GUI because it asks for UN/PW but never gives the ability to select which miner you want to use nor will my standard account UN and PW log in. because apparently they are wrong.
I guess I am stuck with command line ones, but reallly want a GUI set up for the ease of throwing it up when I am not gaming and how it saves everything.
I would really expect the username for the RPC connection to be the same in the GUI as it is on the command line. If not, you may need to ask in the BTCmine thread.
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Yes, totally normal.
The standard node client isn't impressed unless you've got a valid hash that meets the current difficulty target. For most people, this will be never.
The pools, however, accept hashes that only meet a much easier target, so that they can allocate shares to the miners.
The pool does not allocate shares. You do them. If they meet the needed criteria they get inserted in the database as a valid share(bit might not meet the target). No, you do hashes. The pool does shares, and I'm pretty sure the right word for that process is allocation.
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Ahh, that explains it. You can't set your own server to connect to, you have to pick one of the ones in the list.
I'd just go with the command line for now (or change pools). Presumably whoever maintains guiminer will update the list to include whichever pool you want. Might be a good idea to check the guiminer thread to make sure he is aware of it.
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By your definition the dollar is worth nothing. Absolutely nothing. Too bad it's not true.
The argument is dubious. *sigh* No, a dollar is worth exactly the amount of work you put in to earn it, it is also worth the amount of goods you can trade it for. The underlying value of the dollar, and any currency, is the amount of work you will spend to earn it. Currently, the work for a BTC is the electricity input. You don't do anything to mine BTC, your GPU does. So, a bitcoin that I mine is worth the cost of the electricity used to find it (production cost). But, a dollar isn't worth the cost of the paper it is printed on (production cost), it is worth the amount of effort that I put into getting it from someone else (exchange cost). Why is a bitcoin valued at the cost of production, while the dollar is valued at the exchange cost? A dollar IS valued at the cost of production. How do you produce a dollar? You work for it. How do you produce a BTC? You work for it (mine it). The difference is that with a dollar, you personally spend your time and effort, and with a BTC, you spend electricity. They both SHOULD be valued on production, but BTC clearly is not. My work creates dollars? Well shit, does that mean the Secret Service is going to come after me? Because I'm pretty sure they think that dollars are printed by the Bureau of Printing and Engraving. Or, if you expand the notion of "dollar" to include checkbook money (accounts in a database) then a little research will easily demonstrate to you that electronic dollars are created out of thin air by bankers.
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You are unlikely to recover the cost of even a single 4870 even if you run a pair of them until they crumble into dust.
Opinions are mixed on this. I'm pretty sure the profit ship sailed a couple of weeks ago. Others think you can still do it.
If you don't mind gambling, or if you want the second card for better gaming, go for it. If you need that money for something more important than entertainment, I wouldn't.
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By your definition the dollar is worth nothing. Absolutely nothing. Too bad it's not true.
The argument is dubious. *sigh* No, a dollar is worth exactly the amount of work you put in to earn it, it is also worth the amount of goods you can trade it for. The underlying value of the dollar, and any currency, is the amount of work you will spend to earn it. Currently, the work for a BTC is the electricity input. You don't do anything to mine BTC, your GPU does. So, a bitcoin that I mine is worth the cost of the electricity used to find it (production cost). But, a dollar isn't worth the cost of the paper it is printed on (production cost), it is worth the amount of effort that I put into getting it from someone else (exchange cost). Why is a bitcoin valued at the cost of production, while the dollar is valued at the exchange cost?
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