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2821  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Please remove Bitcoin from Sourceforge.net on: August 17, 2011, 03:34:05 PM
SF is just a mirror at this point.

No it isn't... It's the only official place from where people can get compiled binaries today.

Fixed that for ya.

Do you really think it will be hard to put binaries up on a different mirror some day if we need to?
2822  Economy / Trading Discussion / Re: Sick of having to input sell orders each time the price changes on: August 16, 2011, 05:17:01 PM
Is this the nature of the game or?

I'm sick of being ousted because the price changes every 30 seconds, making it difficult to sell ALL the BTC at once. You have to re-enter a sell order each time.

Just put in the least per coin that you are willing to take. 
2823  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Message to the pools on: August 16, 2011, 04:31:31 PM
Well, I think we can now suggest that Eligius needs to fix their damn clock.  Look at 141,220 to 141,222
2824  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Message to the pools on: August 16, 2011, 03:16:07 PM
http://digbtc.com/

It is impossible to tell from that if the problem is Eligius or some solo miner/private pool.

But seriously, we are in the Internet Era people.  Install NTP already.
2825  Bitcoin / Pools / Re: [~2400 GH/sec] BTC Guild - 0% Fees, LP, SSL, API, 8 Decimal Payouts and more! on: August 16, 2011, 03:48:55 AM
While I think that i0coin will end up being just as silly as ixcoin, having a pool set up will be huge.  I was watching the network when ixcoin launched, and the lack of long polling was brutal for solo miners.
2826  Economy / Economics / Re: What does a Free Market mean to you? on: August 15, 2011, 11:01:37 PM
We could, I suppose, debate whether or not you are actually avoiding the other debate, but I think I already know how it will end up.

Depends on what you mean.  A "debate" might imply a discourse of two sides on some topic.  A logical flaw however can exist in any argument.  An argument being a series of statements which attempt to force (to various degrees of strength) a conclusion.  i.e. kjj is a sophist as evidenced by...

Perhaps you mean that you are not arguing that I am a sophist and are just stating it?
Quote
Sophistry is the art of avoiding logical debate while looking like you are participating.
That may be your definition but classically (perhaps you didn't mean it that way after all - that's a point in favor of obtaining definitions) sophists considered persuasion as subordinate to reason.  So for example calling someone a sophist without actually supporting your statement with argument and evidence could be an example of classical sophistry.  Plato commented on this very thing in the Gorgias dialogue when he said that Gorgias favored opinions over the truth.  The idea of asking "What is <something>?" is actually Plato's primary method of argumentation not Gorgias.  Gorgias would avoid providing definitions.  Likewise appealing that "everyone knows" something might also be an example of sophistry in the classical sense.  The modern sense is more about a deceptive argument.  I don't really see what's deceptive about my arguments.

Ever faster than I had expected.
2827  Bitcoin / Pools / Re: [~2400 GH/sec] BTC Guild - 0% Fees, LP, SSL, API, 8 Decimal Payouts and more! on: August 15, 2011, 06:30:38 PM
If two blocks are found at nearly the same time, and both of them end up on the network, each will be correct on a fraction of the network.  That means that part of the network will be working on the next block following one of them, and the rest of the network will be working on extending the other.  If there is a clear winner when the next block is found by one side, the race is over in favor.  Or, if the next round is another tie, the network remains split and goes on to the next round.

Because finding blocks is somewhat random, if the initial split isn't perfectly even, one side or the other will have a considerable advantage, and that advantage will grow quickly.  I don't think that any splits caused by honest block races have gone past a third round.
2828  Economy / Economics / Re: What does a Free Market mean to you? on: August 15, 2011, 06:23:51 PM
For everyone else, I'll let you in on a little secret.  If someone starts pretending that they needed more precise definitions for common words that everyone understands and uses every day, sit up and pay attention, because a sohpist is probably about to snare you up in his tar pit.  The same goes if they start to feign bafflement at a language construction that wouldn't confuse a three year old child.
Wow, classical use of both "sophist" and "ad hominem" in the same post.  A sprinkling of "appeal to popularity" and perhaps some "prejudicial language".

I don't know if there's an award for "logical flaw density in a single post" but should you decide to go pro.  You've got my vote.

Logical flaws only exist when there is a logical debate.  Sophistry is the art of avoiding logical debate while looking like you are participating.  Since you aren't participating, I don't feel that it is flawed to point that out.

We could, I suppose, debate whether or not you are actually avoiding the other debate, but I think I already know how it will end up.
2829  Bitcoin / Project Development / Re: Pizzas to Wall Street Protesters on Sept. 17th on: August 13, 2011, 08:15:28 AM
You guys (assuming your rich since you seem so eager to defend millionaires) have been getting tax loopholes,taxcuts, and incentives for almost 3 decades.
Making assumptions about some anonymous person on the Internet that you are arguing with really doesn't prove your point.

Your talking points are getting old,washed out, and plain silly. We are ready to fight, and let the truth be heard throughout the entire country!

Ok so far you have slammed everyone with conservative viewpoints claiming their views are outdated and silly... What truth are you even talking about? The democrats had a majority in the House and Senate for most of the time between 1950-2000s so your graphs only prove that the policies that made the "rich richer" were created in an era when democrats were in power.

Source:
http://uspolitics.about.com/od/usgovernment/l/bl_party_division_2.htm

How dare you bring facts into this!
2830  Economy / Goods / Re: new real tangible physical bitcoin coin on: August 13, 2011, 01:56:43 AM
+1 for the Civil Defense Geiger Counter box it's on...  Grin

I was wondering how long it would take for someone to notice that.  We found like 30 kits, all brand new and mostly unopened.  They were down in the coal room of a building we are tearing down.  Sadly, the demolition contract had already been signed, so a salvager got them instead of me.  I've been watching eBay.
2831  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: 8 Bitcoin Weaknesses that Affect the Economy on: August 13, 2011, 01:49:41 AM
@ kjj
> 2. Nothing prevents anyone from using a single address for everything. 

If you do that anyone can see all your bitcoin transactions in the block chain. The creators recommend using different addresses.

And for very good reasons.  But this is a trade off, a decision that each person gets to make on their own, it isn't forced on anyone.

>Oh, and I have never seen any indication that the multiple addresses scheme has ever caused any real problems for anyone, ever. 

Just because you haven't seen a problem with it doesn't mean there isn't one.

And just because you say so doesn't mean there is one.

>Oh, and Congress/the Fed has the ability to create new money out of thin air, without limit, so whatever problems you think this might cause for bitcoin are already true in the real world.

Yes, that's true. But wasn't one of the selling points of bitcoin that it's not like them? If you have a tiny handle full of people who control a significant percentage of the total money supply, a supply which is limited, and in fact will always be shrinking due to bitcoin loss.
Picking a catastrophic monetary system such as the Fed and saying bitcoin is better than that, isn't saying much.

Yup, they both suck, but you have to pick one.  Either your currency can be limited, in which case some people will accumulate it to the point that it could be unhealthy for the system.  Or your currency can be unlimited, which has all the same problems, plus a bunch of new ones.

>5. In the real world, you have two choices, instant and horribly inconvenient (cash), or slow and convenient (everything else). 

Well a credit/prepaid credit/debit card is fast and convenient.

No, cards are not fast.  They just look that way if you've only ever been on one side of them.  Charges can be reversed at pretty much any point in the future.  Months or years after the day you thought the deal was done.  A bitcoin transaction is fast in the sense that it is nearly irreversible a second after it is made.

>With bitcoin, you can make the fast/easy/cheap tradeoff on your own terms.

I don't know how you can do that without using a third party. Which again is the antithesis of the design of bitcoin, no central authority. I think no central authority is good. Because you can see what can happens with centralization, as in the case of mybitcoin.

No third parties are needed in the bitcoin system, but the bitcoin system can't do everything all at once.  There is room for third parties that do other things.  The real lesson from mybitcoin is that sometimes you get what you pay for.  Oh, and having third parties is not even in the same neighborhood as having a central authority.  You don't pretend that VISA is the central authority for dollars, so why do you pretend that they would be if they mediated transactions denominated in bitcoins?

>6. Miners and relays are allowed to set their own local policy for including/relaying transactions.  Oh, and if you really do want micropayments, just make sure your client is connected directly to one of the several mining pools that have a policy of including all valid incoming transactions.  And if you want to help make micropayments more useful for the world, set your own node to relay everything and publish the address so others can use it.

Can you explain how to do that? When I try to send 0.00008 the client demands a transaction fee of 0.001.
I can see why they are doing it, they want to prevent over load. If millions of micropayments were being done everyday the block chain would grow enormously.

I know that there was at least one pool in the past that had their policy set like that, but I can't find any doing it now.  Then again, I didn't look very hard.  If it turns out that there aren't any, you should start one as a public service.

>7. Many of us have studied plenty of economies that had inflation. 

Ok, but that's not what I asked. Many have studied the mating habits of the wildebeast. What does that have to do with deflation?
I said the best is stable, neither deflating nor inflating.

> perpetual inflation, because they always end.  Always.  And usually with a horrible mess and thousands dead.

I agree with that, I never proposed inflation.

Stability is an illusion.  It doesn't exist.  You might as well put your hopes on trading unicorn horns as currency.  The closest we can get is a currency with a fixed issue and gradual decline through loss.  All of the other options involve stealing from someone (or from everyone).

The closest we've ever come to having deflationary currencies in the real world is times when weak and fearful governments have kept their hands off the printing presses for a while as technology works it's unstoppable magic of making everything cheaper in real terms.  These periods usually end within about 60 years as the people with firsthand memories of the bloodshed of the last revolution die off.  By then the new government is powerful, a natural consequence of not fucking with the money, and the leaders feel themselves wiser than any that have come before, so they know they can print "just a little bit more, just this once".  Next thing you know, they are right back where they started.  History is the retelling of this cycle over and over again with different accents.

>8. Wait a second.  Wasn't your first point that bitcoin isn't anonymous? 
> Also, everything you say here is true right now in the real world.  It is just that in the real world, the costs of being careless are not paid by the careless, but by everyone, by way of higher prices and fees at vendors, banks and credit card companies.

Yes, I agree. Unfortunately it's a major problem with bitcoin. Look at the ripoffs that have happened already and it's only in its infancy. It's unavoidable. Any cash like currency will have to live with this problem.

No one looks at an infant and says "Just think how much it is going to suck changing those diapers when this kid is 20".  Most of the problems with bitcoin, to the extent that they actually are problems and not differences of opinion, are caused by the newness of the system.  They aren't harbingers of doom to come as it matures.
2832  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Trading $300 for your BTC. I am paying premium! on: August 12, 2011, 08:31:29 PM
Just out of curiosity, what did you need the coins for?  It seemed like it was pretty urgent.
2833  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANNOUNCE] Ixcoin - a new Bitcoin fork on: August 12, 2011, 08:30:14 PM
After thinking about it, the reality is that I have way more ixcoins than I have bitcoins.  So why should I want bitcoins to succeed over ixcoins, even if the creator of ixcoins didn't really add any value, and he reserved a huge chunk for himself?  Ixcoins are functionally no worse than bitcoins.

Except that Metcalfe's Law says that bitcoin is functionally vastly superior.
I'm not sure that necessarily applies in this case.

Metcalfe's Law is often used in a figurative sense, even though he was talking about physical boxes trading bits with each other.

The analogy is pretty easy to figure out.  The network I'm talking about here isn't just the nodes pushing blocks and transactions around, it is the network of people and businesses that grew up around the software network.
2834  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANNOUNCE] Ixcoin - a new Bitcoin fork on: August 12, 2011, 07:53:02 PM
After thinking about it, the reality is that I have way more ixcoins than I have bitcoins.  So why should I want bitcoins to succeed over ixcoins, even if the creator of ixcoins didn't really add any value, and he reserved a huge chunk for himself?  Ixcoins are functionally no worse than bitcoins.

Except that Metcalfe's Law says that bitcoin is functionally vastly superior.
2835  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Download of Bitcoin very slow on: August 12, 2011, 07:48:46 PM
It is under 500 MB.

And unless you are getting it transmitted to you by morse code, the download time is trivial compared to the time needed to verify each transaction and block.
2836  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Password-protected private key export format on: August 12, 2011, 06:50:23 PM
We are at the point where outside utilities are starting to need more access to the wallet.  See pywallet, for an example of a very useful tool that I wish I didn't have to shut down my client to use.

One option would be to have the client open the wallet database without a total lock, so that other things could use it at the same time.  In that case, using per-key encryption inside the wallet would be a good thing for sure.

But most of the things that would be enabled by allowing concurrent wallet access could also be done through RPC, if we can just make the right RPC commands.  Oh, and we'll probably need at least a little bit of granularity in the RPC security system.

At any rate, these encrypted single keys would always be useful as a transfer format for moving keys between servers, archiving onto paper or CDs, offline generation, etc.  Whether they are useful as an alternate storage format inside the wallet will depend on whether we go with RPC or unlocking the database.
2837  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANNOUNCE] Ixcoin - a new Bitcoin fork on: August 12, 2011, 06:32:04 PM
It looks like a good chunk of the pre-mined ixcoins are being used for bounties.  And maybe his/their intention is to reserve the rest for future bounties.

At first I thought that it could be a good thing if this new chain was being used to subsidize development that could easily be ported back to the mainline client.  It would be like a sort of testnet, but with immediate financial benefits to whatever extent these new coins are useful/valuable/exchangeable.

But then I saw the list of bounties, and they all appear to be external, and aimed at bringing ixcoin up to the level that bitcoin is already at, rather than extending anything.  Maybe that will change in the future.  Or maybe not.
2838  Economy / Marketplace / Re: Flexcoin is LIVE to everyone! on: August 12, 2011, 05:47:07 PM
Even if the accounts have 'secret' nicknames I can look at all the nicknames and balances, send a tiny amount ot someone, and then look at the 'secret' nicknames again and find out which is theres. multiple secret nicknames gets around this but I do not want to have to bother setting that up.

You are assuming the report is done in real time, which isn't necessary for the security of the system.
2839  Bitcoin / Project Development / Re: Pizzas to Wall Street Protesters on Sept. 17th on: August 12, 2011, 04:42:48 PM
Oh please these same 30 year arguments DON'T WORK. You guys (assuming your rich since you seem so eager to defend millionaires) have been getting tax loopholes,taxcuts, and incentives for almost 3 decades.

WHERE ARE THE JOBS NOW? SHOULDN'T THE JOBS BE EVERYWHERE CONSIDERING THESE GRAPHS?



The income disparity has completely tilted toward the rich in the past 40-50 years in ways we have never seen before in this country....

While their taxes are at records lows, lows we have never seen before in this country...



Your talking points are getting old,washed out, and plain silly. We are ready to fight, and let the truth be heard throughout the entire country!

Hang on a second, what exactly do you think these graphs show?

The first one shows me that the income ratios between those income segments have been pretty much unchanged for 50 or 60 years.  That is to say that the slopes of the lines are fairly steady.

The second one shows me that the bar for being considered "ultra rich" in the eyes of the tax code has fallen to the point where it includes most small businesses and farmers.

Your comments lead me to think that you have a wildly different understanding of what they are showing.

Most people are probably going to have problems with the first chart.  That site really doesn't like people linking to their images.  If you want to see it, try going to the front page first, and then go to view the chart.
2840  Economy / Economics / Re: It’s not illegal to use real strawberries, it’s just impossible if you don’t wan on: August 12, 2011, 03:40:10 PM
If there is one assured thing in life, is that there are no absolutes.
Absolutely all of us will die.

The evidence in support of your position isn't very good.  While 100% of all dead people have died at some point, the percentage of all people that ever lived that have died is far less than 100%.
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