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Three words:
Security through obscurity.
It does work most of the time.
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I'm actually only running three of them, because the top PCIe slot on my motherboard is dead. But the bottom one is too close to the bottom of the case to use without an extender. And I use that exact PSU for 3 of them. I have a feeling it is overkill, but oh well. I bet it would run 4 just fine... You are using the CORSAIR CMPSU-750TX for three of them? Yes, works just great. I have one of them overclocked to 975mhz on a little more voltage too... would have overclocked all of them, but I couldn't figure out a way to do it with Trixx. Just FYI, my 750TX just died last night. I was running 3 5830's and a C2D processor (50%-60% usage). I suspect heat had something to do with it, as the air coming out of it was always blazing hot, and I don't have any case fans (just left the side panel off). Still, it may be insufficient for 3 5830's, so I thought I'd send out the warning. I bought an 850w ThermalTake to replace it, as that was the only decent PSU available within a 2 hour drive. Now I have the case laying on its side, so less heat will be directed through the PSU. We'll see how things go this time around...  Hey Sgt -- Are you one of those who thinks a 5830 is wasted unless it's OC'd to the 300+ range? Personally, I have my 5830's bringing in about 270 MH/s each. After all, it's not like they ARE a 300 MH/s card -- that's not exactly their stock output. I don't do aggressive OC'ing. My point -- did you have them overclocked much? Because if so, they use a lot more than 140W each. Matthew |
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I was wondering the same thing -- if I built a machine today, would I buy the usual $60 low-end chip, or would I pay an extra $50 to get one of these?
60-80 MH/s is something -- at lot better than CPU mining.
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In response to my offer for one of his 5870's: No... That's too low. Mayyyyyybe 270.
For $270 I could get (2) Sapphire 5830 Extreme's from NewEgg (yes, they're in stock) for $129.99 each! (2) 5830's = 600 MH/s. (1) used 5870 = 400 MH/s. You got tons of use out of them, why do you think you can gouge on the way out? You're a few weeks' too late for that. If you think we're going to pay June 5th prices for this hardware with the current difficulty and Bitcoin price, you've got another thing coming. I offered $170 for your card, which is a fair price consider it's used. And what good is it? It's primary resale value is for mining. But what value is it for a miner? Even at the "low, low price" of $170, it would take 68 DAYS to pay for itself, assuming difficulty stops rising (which it hasn't, and won't). (As an aside -- difficulty continues to increase. It is not even holding steady, much less going down. The last 2 days the network hashrate was lower, but it picked right back up now that a couple DDoS'd pools are back online) 68 days is a huge risk for a miner. A lot can happen in 2 1/3 months! Matthew |
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That's no way to treat potential customers.
When you treat potential customers with disdain, it shows something of your personality, and suggests what else you might be willing to do -- rip them off, overcharge, hide things from them, etc.
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I'm normally very vocal against scalping.
But it's true the Sapphire 5850 is not available anymore in stores. What's the fair value for it? Whatever people are willing to pay, I guess.
But "fair value" does not always mean "a good deal".
The fair market value of the i7 2.93 GHz is "$289.99" on NewEgg.com today, but you'd be stupid to buy one. You can get a Sandy Bridge chip (runs faster, cheaper, cooler) for $10 more.
So there's "in line with market value" and then there's "a wise purchase".
While $175-$200 is what these cards are going for, the bigger question is, "Do I *really* need a 5850, or will a 6870 do just as well for less money."
That is for each of our brains to decide. Some with dysfunctional brains might come to the wrong conclusion. That's life.
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NewEgg is selling 5830's RIGHT NOW for $129.99 plus $5 shipping.
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Keep in mind that 5830's (or any other card) tend to crap out once you hit 84 degrees C if they're overclocked.
The other day I forgot to manually turn the fans on (via aticonfig), and I started up the miners on all 3 cards -- the card on top reached 90+ degrees, but the machine didn't freeze up.
That's because I also forgot to run the overclocking script.
I bet if I had overclocked but forgot to turn fans on, the machine would have required a reboot.
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Those of us who are mining for a profit are obviously decent with money and aren't likely to be struggling financially.
tl;dr - I have a job too. Enough to support a wife and 4 kids.
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NewEgg has 5830's -- which are almost as good -- for $129.99 RIGHT NOW.
You can get (2) 5830's for only $260. That's 600 MH/s!
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And why would you expect to get more than retail for a used card, anyhow?
Just because you could in early June, during the height of the Bitcoin frenzy?
Guess what? Newsflash -- the money-making frenzy is over. BTC has dropped significantly in price, even as difficulty has increased significantly.
Hence, Bitcoin mining cards no longer draw the premium they once did.
Get with the times. The card you're selling currently makes a paltry *1.66* per day, that that's assuming pretty cheap electricity and proportional (not pay-per-share) mining.
A payoff period of 81+ days is hardly a "no-brainer". Especially since there's no telling where Bitcoin will be in three months. Three months is a long time to wait for your first dollar of profit (yes, I know you can resell the card, etc. but we're comparing apples to apples here). It used to be 12 days to pay off one of these cards.
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Price lowered to $20 in bitcoins.
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NewEgg has these cards in stock AGAIN for $129.99 *brand new*
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Ugh!
There are some real idiots on this board, sad to say.
Some people can't even read and interpret a graph -- some people can barely read, especially anything with complexity or nuance!
Kids don't read enough these days. Too much screen time!
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NewEgg has them in stock, you know.
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Even if you offered $129.99 + 4.99 shipping (yes, NewEgg dropped the shipping by $2.50 in the last 24 hours for some reason...)
it would be better to get it from NewEgg -- frankly, they're more trustworthy than you. Nothing personal -- but why risk buying from a private individual where you *could* (underline COULD) get scammed -- when for the SAME PRICE you could buy with confidence from a large online retailer?
Matthew
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I never said the 5970 would be worthless -- though it will diminish to the point of not being worth it for mining, for most people.
Most people will not run a PC with 1 -- or even 2 -- 5970's full bore for a week for $1 or $2 -- and if BTC price wavered just a bit, they'd be losing money! That's when it would be practically worthless for mining.
I know, by then many people will have quit. But I wouldn't be surprised if mining got a lot less profitable than it is today.
As you point out, there's a large gap between 15% profit and 300%. I think some people would mine even for 15% profit -- because it's fun, they don't care about accounting, etc. Heck, how many people carry credit card debt? I would never carry a credit card balance, but I'm pretty sure a lot of people do! Are they kind of foolish for paying 20% more for everything by living in debt? Objectively speaking, yes. But a TON of people do it.
130 days is a *long time*. Even with 10% difficulty increases every 14 days, it's going to be hard to reach $350 with a card purchased today. And the card is not exactly coveted by gamers. When not one, but TWO graphics card series have been released after it -- both of which excel the 5XXX for gaming -- the card is not going to find a welcome market.
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And that's why the OP's prediction of mining off a 5970 eventually reaching $0.60 USD Um...another major misunderstanding. I just read my OP, and I don't see this ANYWHERE. Care to point it out to me? |
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Yes, I'm saying there are some miners who are going to be *very* disappointed with their expensive toy(s).
Why do YOU care? BTW, return on investment in 130 days + still owning the asset (the GPU), that's a really good investment. And everyone should know that Bitcoin is kind of a gamble right now. I guess I'm one of those people who's annoyed by stupidity. Regarding the investment potential, I disagree. When you're talking 130+ days to payoff, I don't think BTC mining would even cover depreciation of the "asset". Remember, there is the "drive it off the lot" drop in value that happens when you remove the cellophane from your new video card. But the 7000 series is also coming this fall -- far less than 130 days from now. And even if it WERE a good investment (which it's not) you'd be *smarter* to buy the thing on NewEgg for $329.99 after rebate, and get a BRAND NEW one that you can RMA if it's defective, etc. than to buy it from some person on Craigslist for $350. Heck, you don't even get the 1% cashback on your credit card when you buy things on CL. CL sellers don't take credit cards. 1. 130 days to a 100% ROI is a VERY good investment. Just ask any businessman. 2. The card won't be worthless when the 7000 series comes out. Perhaps not worth as much, but far from fully depreciated. 3. If you're a miner, you want to start mining ASAP. You don't want to wait for newegg to ship it, and you don't want to pay extra to have it expedited. Every day not mining is some amount of bitcoins lost. Craigslist holds the advantage in that you can go pick it up, bring it home, and start mining immediately. 4. New is better, I'll agree with you there. 5. Some people don't like rebates, so if $350 is better than the before-rebate price on newegg, I can understand why some people would go for the CL card to save a few bucks. 6. You can't assume that bitcoin difficulty will continue to increase while price will stay the same. That's NOT going to happen. We've already seen a level off of the difficulty, and we're still several multiples above the cost of electricity. Many companies are happy with a 15% margin on their operations - the typical bitcoin miner is operating on 300-400% margins. Uncertainty of the future will always keep mining profitable for the vast majority, unless/until the price drops significantly from where it is today. But as long as the price stays the same, or goes higher, mining will remain profitable. You seem to be contradicting yourself, and there's something you're gravely missing. You mention 300-400% margins being incredibly attractive, but don't seem to understand that people are going to continue to pile in (albeit at a slower rate than early June), until margins are much more like a business "15% margin". That's my point: even if price/difficulty stays about where it is, mining capacity will be added THROUGH INERTIA ALONE -- existing miners adding a card here and there, big-time miners adding a few dozen cards here and there, gamers firing up their ATI cards (remember, there are MILLIONS of them) after they find out about Bitcoin mining, and new miners buying a card or two and getting started "because I make $10 -- and only $5 of it is for electricity!" (that would be an example 100% margin -- still a ways in the future). |
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