Why is it so hard for you people to look at what is actually happening? Nothing is sold. Factually, the system just plays with the numbers according to some protocols. Can you comprehend the reality of that? Nothing is sold or bought in your example. People sell and buy liabilities in the banking system. Liability is the type of money. Operation with the numbers in the banking system means quantifying liabilities. Liabilities are existent things in the banking system and are quantified with the numbers. In the Satoshi's system there are neither liabilities nor some other type of money. Only fake quantities. These quantities fool many people by creating the illusion that something exists. That something is quantified with them, like coins. But it's not. Quantities are fake.

Sure we can "see" infrared light. Not by our eyes of course. But instruments such as night-vision goggles or infrared cameras–allow us to "see" the infrared waves emitting from warm objects such as humans and animals.

In the Satoshi's system all that you see in the possession of a person is an address. And a fake number attached to it.

Like I said. I talk about facts. So factually, there are thousands of companies around the world that participate in Satoshi's scheme and give their existing things for free just because the Satoshi's system will write fake numbers next to their addresses in the system. If, like you say, the companies think or say they are using Bitcoin, that's factually incorrect given not s single person on Earth has ever saw Bitcoin. Bitcoin is a non-existent thing. Of course, you can still think and talk about bitcoin. Like you can talk about Zeus, flying spaghetti monster, unicorn, or whatever. But those are all fictional characters. And if you insist talking they are real that fits the definition of a delusional behavior. Majority around the world are ignorant, and they believe false narrative on bitcoin's existence. So they aren't behaving delusionally. They are just ignorant. However, in this topic I have proved to you that bitcoin doesn't exist, so if you insist on talking that bitcoin exists and ignore all the empirical evidence I gave you, that's delusional behavior.
You asked what you own. You own an address. Like everyone that installed a wallet application. That's all that you own. Now, whatever playing with the numbers the system performs around your address doesn't make you an owner of something. For example, coins. Coins are tangible items. Like gold ones. You don't own coins. Neither bit-coins nor b-coins. Anyone who has ever told you that you own coins is simply lying or is ignorant. Also you don't own tokens or electronic cash. Those are liability type of money - an entity is liable to redeem them. So, anyone who has ever told you that you own tokens or electronic cash is also lying or is ignorant. That what you have next to your address is a fake number. Fake quantity. Quantity of a thing that doesn't exist. Letters B, T, C in your wallet are fake name. Name of a thing that doesn't exist. Flying spaghetti monster is also the name of a thing that doesn't exist. You can give names to non-existent or fictional things. That's what your wallet application does.
Only the existing things can be scarce. Playing with the numbers don't make things pop into existence.

I don't know what companies are thinking or saying. I never waste my time on something like that. I just observe reality and talk about facts. That's why I am also silent on your fantasies.

I am not interested in your fantasies. Sorry.

Factually, you sold nothing. System just increased and decreased the numbers next to addresses and added the results to the blockchain. In short, the Satoshi's system performed some mathematical and technical operations and then the exchange gave you the existing money (liability), that is, 43,000 units of that liability for free.

Of course, you own an address in the system. Just like you own an email address.

Sure Bitcoin will continue to exist, and it will be redeemable. In imagination. I never said otherwise.

No, I am showing you that you own no digital product. And that Satoshi's number which suggests you do, is a fake number. You see how simple it is?

If you've read my posts, you saw that I didn't talk about my feelings, Trump or elections. So, you're imagining things. Just like you're imagining that you own bitcoins.

Btw, "capitalisation" is multiplying the number of shares in SOMETHING (e.g. equity - capital) by market price of that THING. What you have in the Satoshi's scheme is multiplying the sum of numbers in the Satoshi's system by number of dollars that someone paid to get number "1" added to a number next to their address. This has literally nothing to do with capitalisation. But hey, you in bitcoin community are champions of twisting the meaning of words. So it is no wonder you twisted the meaning of the word "capitalisation" also. Nearly everything you do is imagining things and twisting the meaning of words. This discussion is a perfect example of such behavior.

Stop with this nonsense, you cannot fool anyone here. You literally said that you've redeemed Satoshi's numbers. However, "to redeem" means - to fulfill a liability. When a retailer created a gift card he created the liability to take that card back and give the card holder some products or services. When the retailer does that, the liability is fulfilled. This is what it means to redeem - to fulfill the existing liability. So, what you actually said is that you had the liability, and that you then fulfilled that liability. Which is an obvious lie. You had no liability. Neither you nor anyone else in the Satoshi's system. You literally made up that you "redeemed bitcoin", because I demonstrated to you that "liability"(to redeem) is one form of money. Because I demonstrated that liability is something that exists. Given that liabilities don't exist in the Satoshi's system, you simply twisted the meaning of the word "redeem" to create the illusion that this system has "something" behind the numbers. I literally never saw such a bizarre behavior in my life. Why are you doing this? What are you trying to achieve?

No, I have no definition of money. I am stating the obvious - money is something. And then I gave the examples of something: liability (to redeem - token, fiat money, bond, gift card...), coin (tangible item like gold). I am also stating the obvious: we use numbers to express the quantity of something. Obviously, people must comunicate somehow to inform each other what and how many units of something is owned or transferred. For communication, numbers and letters are used. Numbers for informing on quantity of things, and letters to inform on name of things.

Bitcoin on the other hand doesn't exist. Something that doesn't exist cannot be money. It cannot be a digital product, or coin, token, commodity, whatever. Nothing cannot have features to be able to fit the definition of a word like "coin". And in the Satoshi's system there's nothing that the holders of the addresses own. Numbers attached to their addresses just create the illusion that a specific quantity of something - digital coins called Bitcoins, exist. The system simply attaches, for e.g. "5" to an address, and then it is claimed that the address holder owns 5 units of something - a thing called bitcoin. But the holder has nothing in their possession. Neither digital nor tangible. The number is simply fake. It's a lie. The whole system is a giant utopia where participants think they own something, while in reality only fake numbers are attached to their addresses.

What is stunning is how people in this discussion twist reality and definitions to be able to claim that nothing is something. I literally never experienced such a bizarre behavior in my life. Claiming that entering into this scheme is redeeming the non-existent item is an example of such behavior. Another example is frantically repeating the name Bitcoin as if people were actually holding a coin in their own hands. The most common behavior is hiding behind cryptographic management of numbers to create the illusion that something valuable is behind the numbers. Anyhow, this is an interesting psychological experiment to watch.

So, you're not able to back up your claim. I knew that already. I am just showing that none of you have some rational arguments. You're all just repeating the same nonsense.

In finance, redemption describes the repayment of a fixed-income security—such as a Treasury note, certificate of deposit, or bond—on or before its maturity date.

You have literally ignored every possible definition of a financial or economic term in this discussion.All that just to claim that Satoshi's numbers are something they are not. In the same sentence you say that Satoshi's numbers are redeemable, which means someone has liability, and then you say that in Satoshi's system there are no liabilities. For you, it doesn't matter what is reality or truth. You're twisting everything just to fit your narrative. I bet that if Satoshi had written in whitepaper that his system creates airplanes you would have claim that numbers are capable of flying. That what you're doing is a textbook definition of a delusion.

I am not interested in your philosophy about Satoshi's numbers. You said these numbers are redeemable. Now, back up your claim. Who has the written liability to redeem that numbers and what's the maturity?

No, you cannot redeem Satoshi's numbers. You can just transfer them to your address. Redeeming means destroying. When you redeem a gift card it no longer exists. When you redeem dollars, the liability is decreased in the banking system, dollars are literally destroyed. You, neither have written liability to destroy Satoshi's numbers, nor you would destroy them after giving someone goods, services or labour. So, you're talking stupidity again.

So, who has the written liability to redeem Satoshi's numbers next to your address and what is the maturity?

Numbers on bank accounts are the liability of the banking system, that is, a redeemable record. They are redeemed literally every day for labor, products and services of the borrowers at every loan repayment. Watch the video linked in the OP. Numbers in Satoshi's system are no one's liability. No institution or organization has a liability to redeem that numbers for something. Neither today, nor tomorrow. Never.

Sure it's easy. You need a line of code to attach a number to an address. To create a coin - a tangible item or intangible liability, it's not so easy. Your problem is that you lack education in economics so you think that attaching a number to an address means creating a coin. Electronic coin or cash is liability written on digital media. Cash is liability written on paper or metal media. Writing down numbers into a database is not creating coins or electronic cash, like Satoshi said in his whitepaper. That guy wrote nonsense because he is also uneducated in economics.

Yes, you can... here you go. Addr4u7jgt67. I declare that to be my address. ... Addr4u7jgt67->1,000 And now I just attached a number to that address. Of course, I can make, a protocol... "Attaching is allowable only after POW. POW is traveling around the world". Ups... now it's not easy for me to attach a number. But, whatever. It is still a number. It's not a car. It's not an application. It's not money or a coin ( a tangible item or intangible liability). It's literally a number. With or without POW, it doesn't matter. POW doesn't magically transform numbers into gold.

You don't prove ownership because you don't own a digital product, liability or a tangible item. You prove that a specific number was attached to your address. That's it.

Cryptographic signature... I have to google it... " uses public key algorithms to provide data integrity. When you sign data with a digital signature, someone else can verify the signature, and can prove that the data originated from you and was not altered after you signed it."

So, with a cryptographic signature you are just securing the numbers attached. No bit-coins, that is, someone's liabilities to redeem numbers exist in a cryptographic signature. You see, you didn't prove the existence of bit-coins.

I refuted literally everything you said. Even that thing about cryptographic signatures. Are you using Freudian projection? It's like you're describing yourself.


No, no, no and no. You didn't transfer ownership rights of some amount of BTC. You transferred a number. BTC is just Satoshi's trick of renaming the concept of a number to coin. Numbers are neither coins nor there's ownership rights on them. Satoshi didn't invent numbers or patented them. He just uses them to create the illusion of the existence of coins that don't actually exist.

I am not a fraudster so I don't create fake things.


Antique money is a tangible item. Modern money is redeemable record. Satoshi's numbers are neither. Which means they are not money, coins or tokens. They're just numbers. You are free to pay a million dollars for a number to be attached to your address. But you cannot lie that that number is money, coin or bit-coin. Although you can say it's a fake-coin.

Yes they are nonsensical because they misrepresent my position. I literally never said that bitcoin doesn't exist because you can't touch it or feel it.

I said that bitcoin doesn't exist because I checked the Satoshi's system and proved by empirical observation that neither liabilities (to redeem) nor digital products exist there. But just numbers. You can't touch or feel liabilities and digital products but they still exist. It is just that they don't exist in Satoshi's system. So no coins or bit-coins. Coins are tangible items or intangible liabilities. None of that is in Satoshi's system. Just numbers. Numbers are concepts on quantity represented by symbols (0-9). They are not invented by Satoshi. So you can't just rename numbers into bitcoin and claim that you've invented new money, coin or token. That's a lie.

And... another round of lies and misinformation.

Writing down a number (a record) next to miner's address after that miner provided POW, doesn't magically make that record redeemable. For a record to be redeemable someone has to have a liability to exchange it for products, services or other redeemable records like fiat money.

Bitcoins, that is, bit-coins, don't exist. A coin is either a tangible item like gold or other item with intrinsic value, or a record where its issuer has a liability to redeem it. That what you have in Satoshi's system are numbers, fake-coins, that people falsely call coins, tokens or money.

Sure, if people repeatedly lie that coin called bitcoin exists then I must repeatedly address their lies. I don't care about their nonsensical analogies with DNS or evolution. The people here are lying and spreading misinformation. That's the point. Hiding behind stupid analogies won't make that lies go away.

A coin, a token, or money in the form of a record is basically a record of liability. Liability of the issuer of the record to redeem it. So, if that guy Satoshi claims that the numbers that his system is writing down are coins than he is actually claiming that someone has the liability to redeem them. Like banks redeem their records via loan repayments, like casinos redeem their records (tokens), like retailers redeem their gift cards, or corporations their bonds. But no entity exists that has the liability to redeem the record next to addresses in Satoshi's system. That's why the records that his system writes down are not coins. They're not bitcoins. They are fake numbers. Any idiot can print numbers, and then claim they are coins, without having any liability to redeem them. That's called a fraud and not a payment system.

Again, you don't have coins. You have fake number attached to your address that provides false information about the existance of a thing named "coin", while in reality you own nothing. Anyone can write down a number a name of a non-existent thing and then clam to owe it. I can write down to own 10 Ferraris. Satoshi, via his software, can write down that a miner's address owns 10 bitcoins. Someone else can counterfeit $10,000 dollars and claim to own bank debt. All that would be false information. If I would keep insisting I own 10 Ferries, while only pointing to what I wrote down, that would be called a delusion. If I would do that publicly, that would be spreading misinformation.

I am not confused. I am simply stating the fact that none of you are able to show a thing whose name is bitcoin, and whose quantities are written next to your addresses. That's all. That's why you're focused on ad hominem attacks. Talking about my motivation, education and knowledge. I am having real fun here watching what people are capable to do or say just to justify false narratives and misinformation. I am viewing this as some sort of psychological experiment.

As for your false claims. You bought nothing with bitcoin. You transferred fake numbers to people's addresses and these people transferred the ownership of the existing things to you. Why the people did that? Probably because they are the victims of misinformation that bitcoin is an existing thing.
I don't have opinion on bitcoin, I am exposing misinformation that bitcoin exist. I am proving that the numbers written down by the Satoshi's system are not the quantities of an existing digital thing but fake numbers.

I demonstrated by empirical evidence that it is a fact. You've just rhetorically denied the evidence. Nothing else.

Does DNS exist? I don't even know what DNS is. If I would claim it exists I would provide evidence for my claim. You claim that bitcoin exists but you have zero evidence to back it up.

You cannot utilize bitcoin. All you can do is swap numbers with someone. And then use your imagination to think that you own xx bitcoins. Or you can think that Bitcoin is a good that will solve all your problems. You can think whatever you want because human capacity for imaginary creation is enormous.


You cannot buy the equivalent of $1.2 trillion in bitcoin, because bitcoin doesn't exist. All you can do is to have the sum of the numbers in the system attached to your address.

If I own 1 car and a guy owns 10,000 cars, this guy can show 10,000 more four-wheeled road vehicles powered by an engine, than I can.

If you have  0.0000001 attached to your address, and a guy has 18,000,000 attached you both can show equal number of keys and math symbols.

Units of a system is another name for math symbols. You're just paying semantics.