It's a lot easier when someone else holds your money hostage and then comment on what you 'would have done' which of course would be to perfectly play the market
Haha, that is true! I actually experienced that IRL: I had ~2000 BTC in Bitcoinica back in early 2012. My plan was to sell the moment the price would hit 30$ (BTC on par with 1oz of silver). However Bitcoinica got hacked, the company became insolvent, and has been in liquidation ever since holding the remainder of the customer deposits hostage. Even if I get back only 25% of my deposits I will have done better than my original plan. Things that make you go...whaaa!? |
|
|
|
|
Guys, please don't use this thread as a personal IM chatbox. There are over 200 HF customers, many of these following this thread.
Please only post when you have something valuable and on-topic to share. I, and others have this thread on 'notify'.
|
|
|
|
- MPP program is based entirely on BTC return if you paid in BTC, and fiat return if you paid in fiat.
I think the MPP is based entirely on BTC period. According to MPP terms on https://hashfast.com/miner-protection-program/If I didn’t pay in Bitcoin, how do you calculate the purchase price under the MPP and compare it to the amount Bitcoin generated?
If you paid in USD or other fiat currency, HashFast will base the calculations on the BTC to USD (or other currency) exchange rate we gave our customers the day of your purchase.
|
|
|
|
The protocol doc is pretty good indeed. So one HF ASIC actually has 4 dies and will come out of the box @ 422.4 GH/sec (@550MHz), and max overclockable to 537.6 GH/sec (@700 Mhz). While many will be eager to overclock from the get-go to make up for lost hashing-time, please take note that this will likely void your warranty: Modules which are over-clocked will contain logs of such operation, which may void warranty. Since the KnC 1st batch units seem to be failing all over the place, I for one will probably run my HF unit at the nominal speed for the first week (or two) and monitor the threads for HF units failing before even considering overclocking. |
|
|
|
These little toe-rags slip up all the time and the fun is just about to begin.
I hope you are right, that truth comes to light, justice is served, and Buddy is saved! |
|
|
|
If they would have listed December 31 they would never have sold all units at these prices.
actually, i think most were sold after them adding this provision True, but I'm talking about the Dec 31st date on the product page, not the terms and conditions page (since most people don't bother to read this) |
|
|
|
Ninja, it looks like there wasn't a clause stating a refund policy in the latter posted policy. Maybe this was a clarification.
Well there was this: Except for delivery dates explicitly guaranteed in the order confirmation, delivery dates communicated or acknowledged by Hashfast are approximate only, and Hashfast shall not be liable for, nor shall Hashfast be in breach of its obligations to Buyer because of any delivery made within a reasonable time before or after the stated delivery date.
A customer should be able to get a full refund if the delivery is not made within a reasonable time frame after the stated delivery date (Oct 20-30 at the time of my purchase). The question is what is a reasonable time frame for this type of product? Clearly since the majority of the profit is made in the first few weeks after purchase after which it quickly degenerates into a large and heavy paperweight I'd say reasonably short (a few weeks). As integrity42 pointed out in the other HashFast thread, a 400GH/s miner is now expected to only mine ~15.3 BTC in a 1 year period (Starting Nov 23, assuming a 4 week delivery delay) I paid 59 BTC for my BJ so I feel like a proper fool now... Part of it my own fault of course (I did not expect network growth to go double exponential). But HF was only able to demand this kind of premium from Batch 1 customers because of the listed delivery dates of Oct 20-30. Time *is* Money. If they would have listed December 31 they would never have sold all units at these prices. |
|
|
|
They told me this: - This is the explicit provision given in the order confirmation:
"All of the 550 Baby Jet units from HashFast's first production batch are guaranteed for delivery by
December 31, 2013. If Buyer ordered one or more units of such Baby Jets, and HashFast does not deliver such units by that date,
then Buyer may cancel the undelivered portion of the order at Buyer's request and HashFast will refund the payment for the units
that Buyer purchased but did not receive and cancelled. This cancellation and refund is Buyer's sole and exclusive remedy for
HashFast failing to deliver by the December 31, 2013 guaranteed delivery date, and Buyer must cancel the order by January 15, 2014 to avail itself of this remedy. Buyer to pay all taxes, duties and shipping costs." I didn't save my order confirmation page, so I have no idea if it was there or not, but that's what they're telling me. If someone has a saved copy, please post it and I'll ask them about it. So, what I got when I ordered on Aug 8 was: - 1) An Order Receipt from HashFast titled 'Your Hash Fast order receipt from August 9, 2013' (It has the text 'Hash Fash' at the bottom)
- 2) An invoice and receipt from BitPay with Hash Fast on the header. 'Order has been paid in full'.
Of course I had to agree to the Terms of Sale and I saved a copy here: http://pastebin.com/EfS9vmRfThis I thought concluded the Sale. Note that the Dec 31st date was not present anywhere just the late October shipping date. However, on August 15 (A week later) I got an additional email titled 'HashFast Order Confirmation' that did contain the new legal boilerplate: This Order Confirmation and the sales of all product, licenses and services by HashFast are be governed by the HashFast terms and conditions.
Your order is expected to ship between October 20 and October 30, 2013. Physical delivery of your order will take place within days, depending on the shipment method selected. HashFast guarantees that all "Baby Jet" units from our first production batch will be delivered by December 31, 2013. If Buyer ordered one or more Baby Jet units, and HashFast does not deliver such units by that date, then Buyer may at his or her discretion, cancel the undelivered portion and HashFast will issue a full refund the payment for the units that Buyer purchased but did not receive and cancelled. This cancellation and refund is Buyer's sole and exclusive remedy for HashFast failing to deliver by the December 31, 2013 guaranteed delivery date. Buyer must cancel the order and request a refund by January 15, 2014 to avail him or herself of this remedy. Buyer to pay all taxes, duties and shipping costs on units delivered. Clearly between Aug 8 and 15 they decided to update the ToS with the Dec 31st date and send out a new 'Order Confirmation' for this purpose. Personally, I find this a bit dishonest as now we are talking semantics like 'what is the difference between an order receipt and an order confirmation?' or which ToS applies: The one the user agreed to at the time of sale, or the updated terms in the order confirmation that was sent only after they took the customers money? |
|
|
|
|
Absolutely, there is no point in deploying new gen1 hardware in the hashfarm. Selling is a way better option, until the market runs out of fools that is. We need new hardware at a competitive node size desperately.
The exchange, hubs and immersion cooling can hopefully all find profitable niches as well, I just hope friedcat is not losing focus and trying to do too many things at once. New mining hardware should be #1.
AM virtually has a monopoly on USB mining sticks so I hope we can emphasize on that with gen2 as well.
Edit: *ugh* I noticed I used the word 'hope' 3 times... No wonder all the serious investors have left.
|
|
|
|
|
Thanks all. These are all good questions and suggestions.
Personally I think the best scenario would be to accelerate the delivery of the MPP modules for batch1 owners to compensate for the delays. At this point, there is no need to wait 3 month to conclude that a BJ in the current situation (delays+difficulty) is not going to break even by a large margin.
However, I do think that HF should do this in a way that does not disadvantage Batch 2 and 3 owners. So immediately after Batch 3 would be ideal. Realistically that would be late December or early January.
|
|
|
|
|
Google suggest is based on personalized search. People interested in bitcoin will see more bitcoin related suggestions.
|
|
|
|
I expect something like this: - 2nd financial report is delayed for release considering the unsatisfactory performance of AM.
- 3rd financial report is being developed now. It is expected to become a mature report in Feb 2014
 |
|
|
|
Pics of the boards, fpga demonstrations, etc. Okay. I don't think they will have any hardware in the office, since all manufacturing and assembly is done at other sites. They will probably have the FPGA hardware and simulation, but there is already a blog post about that. But I'll check with them regardless. Proof that they are real and they only had a problem, in other words. I have no doubt they are real. I met Simon at a Bitcoin Meetup back in April of this year (months before HF was started) and he was already working on a design for a 400GH/s mining ASIC for some time at that point. BJ Batch 1 with Upgrade Customer: What can be done to change my order to a Sierra without later delivery date? (Support already said no).
Will do. However, if they have already ordered all the BJ cases, and support already said no, I don't think the answer will be different the 2nd time. But who knows? |
|
|
|
I'm planning to visit the HashFast office in SF this Wednesday. It will be a fairly short affair (30m), but I would be happy to relay some forum questions in person. No guarantees I'll get answers though  |
|
|
|
I personally think those Bitcoins will stay in government agency accounts and probably moved around. They could even use it for propaganda, they could send it to a particular group and spread it across the media to give Bitcoin a bad rep This. They will likely use the Bitcoins against Bitcoin. |
|
|
|
HF is losing credibility fast. Lets hope this does not turn into yet another BFL, although it is sure starting to look like it.
As for me. When I ordered and paid for my BJ the words 'anticipated' and 'December 31' were not on the site/conditions. Those were added later. It simply stated 'Shipping starts October 20-30, in order of purchase'. Fact.
And what are you waiting for to join me or whoever else in a pooled lawsuit against them? Let's share our time, money and resources. United we are way stronger than them. Because I hate feeding the Lawyers. HF is not outside of their October 30 shipping window yet, so I think threatening legal action at this point is a bit premature. I'll wait until Nov. 1 and then assess what my options are. Fortunately my company provides employees with outstanding (and free) legal services including consumer protection lawyers. So that is always an option if need be. However I hope it won't come to that since it is in the best interest of both the customer and HF to work something out. |
|
|
|
|
HF is losing credibility fast. Lets hope this does not turn into yet another BFL, although it is sure starting to look like it.
As for me. When I ordered and paid for my BJ the words 'anticipated' and 'December 31' were not on the site/conditions. Those were added later. It simply stated 'Shipping starts October 20-30, in order of purchase'. Fact.
|
|
|
|
If the share price spikes the day after I sell it all after holding for months, I'm gonna..I'm gonna.... I'm not sure what I'll do. Guess I'll cry or laugh or some sort of combination.
┗(°0°)┛ TO THE M...nevermind |
|
|
|
2. 2nd Gen chips have already been developed long time ago. But they were delayed to deploy considering the unsatisfactory performance.
Unsatisfactory performance perhaps. But surely it must have outperformed Gen1? Assuming these chips cost about the same to produce after initial development costs why not push them out regardless? Any mining hardware improvement is welcome at this stage. |
|
|
|
Seems to be related to this site: http://www.potofmoney.com/Let's face it, ASIC miners are porn for nerds, so John certainly has the credentials! |
|
|
|
|
Show Posts
