I don't know if sb already said that and im too lazy to check, but money itself in any form is not "evil" nor "good".
It is what the people do with the money that is either good or evil.
Thing is : bitcoin is not just a currency amongst other currencies. Bitcoin is a form of money that can't be taxed. Keynes called gold "the barbareous relic". Imagine what he would say about bitcoins.  |
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2000 blocks away will be approximately 2 weeks.
In 2 weeks, bitcoin will be worth?
Another good question, is in two weeks, gold will be worth?
It's only up to you to find the answers of these questions. Edit. ribuck leads at 600 BTC |
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"useless intellectual work" is what takes us to the moon.
Yeah great :/ Even if that was true, 100 scientists that accomplish great things can not be used as an excuse to pay 10,000 others (amongst them not all are scientists) who actually don't do anything for society. Or at least, not at a fair price, since they use public force to finance their salary. In science history, not all great minds were state employees. |
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Finishing the auction at a random time defined by a block number is a clever way of stopping people from all submitting their bids at the last second.
Indeed ! (I confess I hadn't even thought of it in this way ) I actually came up with this idea of using block numbers because I had heard about an old tradition of auction using burning candles. This kind of auction is still in practice in some european countries. I guess you pointed out the exact reason. There is a element of randomness involved. |
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Guys, it's only a small business, don't try to make it so complicated that it can never get started.
Kiba, just set out clearly how the business is going to work, then people can decide whether or not to invest. Some kind of plan like this:
1. I "sell" 50 shares in the profits of the business. Each share is BTC 300 and entitles the purchaser to 1% of the profits.
2. If I don't sell 50 shares within 90 days, I return everyone's BTC and the project ends.
3. If I sell 50 shares within 90 days, I stop selling shares.
4. I use the BTC to buy the Thing-o-matic and other expenses needed to start production, plus the initial stock of raw materials.
5. I set up a website so that people can upload their shape-files and pay with BTC to receive the produced "things".
6. The shareholders and I will have a weekly meeting, but I will make the final decisions about how the business is run.
7. If the shareholders don't think the business is working out satisfactorily, they can vote to close it down.
8. If I don't think the business is working out satisfactorily, I can close it down.
9. If the business is closed, all of the equipment will be sold and the funds distributed to the shareholders according to their shareholding.
Looks fine. I'm interested in buying, now. |
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It doesn't accomplish the purpose of raising enough money to buy the machinery.
These kind of things happen. It's not even rare. I don't know the english expression, but basically it should be something like "IPO failure" ("échec de l'introduction au capital", in french). |
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Well, for 1.5K no, I'm not serious at all  It's not an auction because I will not sell for less than what I paid for, which is what I advertised. I am dead serious about selling it, though, as it is on the market already. Well, in an auction, you can always buy yourself before the end, in case you're really not happy with the highest bid. |
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So I have a house on the market... it's in southern Brazil, near Joinville, about 500 Km south of São Paulo. It's a spacious 2 bedroom house (with 3 bathrooms, go figure) and has a detached house to rebuild, a place for the car and bbq and washing machines as an annex, has almost 10000 square meters of land, a lake, etc. Would you buy a house for Bitcoins? Is it too early in the game? I haven't spoken to the missy's about that, obviously, but if there was real interest (from someone with enough coins) I would certainly be game ~500k coins is the direct dollar to bitcoin conversion, but I'd probably want a little extra margin, for the risk (and because I will need to eventually cash in those coins, and fees for these amounts are a pain) So folks, is there a market this big already?. I don't have 500 kbc, but I'm in for 1,500 bc. However, you don't seem very serious about selling this house. |
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If there is too small amount is raised, I'll simply buy the rest of the shares and own majority of the company and the business will start much later.
You can't buy something unless one agrees to sell. If what you're suggesting is the only solution, then you are the only buyer. In that case, you can buy these shares at almost zero, since those shares don't worth anything unless you buy them. This puts you in a huge dominant position (many sellers, only one buyer). This would be exactly similar to the option 4 previously described. |
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I meant if you were only taking the bids during the 10 blocks that precede the 90k. It might end up at unusable hours for some, like 9am Well, that's part of the fun of it Maybe I will have to wake up at 4am. I don't know. I don't even know if it's possible to know. |
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FreeMoney leads at 500 BTC.
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Of course timezone differences may become a problem for some so a 12 hour period is probably a good idea...
Why is timezone timezone difference a problem ? The length of the block chain is geographically invariant. I actually chose 90,000 only because it was the closest round number I could see. |
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indeed - now that we're all on the same page, the bargaining can commence. Also, I'm not very keen on buying a share of a company, knowing that the initial founder will own 50% of it. Because this gives him a bit too much power, imo. Say, for instance, that too a small amount is raised, and that the machine cannot be bought. Then we make an assembly and we decide what to do. Several proposals are submitted : 1. We launch an other raise of capital, increasing the number of shares, thus diluting the capital ; 2. We let the general director (Kiba) negociate a loan with a bank ; 3. We foreclose the company, and distribute the treasorery to stock owners ; 4. We foreclose the company, and give all the treasorery to the general director ; Of course, most stock holders will vote for 1., 2. or 3. But Kiba might very well vote for 4. He will then have taken all the money from investors, without having broken any rule of capitalism. Sounds so outrageous that I'm not sure I'm right, but I see no reason why it could not happen. PS. Even if you buy 49.9% of the company, you can get screwed like this. There is a funny saying in french that describes that : Petit actionnaire minoritaire = petit con.
Gros actionnaire minoritaire = gros con.
Hilarous, but difficult to translate. |
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I'll start the ball rolling 8 bitcoins per gram, or BTC 40 in total. Gotta start somewhere.
Ok, fair enough. I guess there will be at least one person who will put 50 bc. |
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EDIT: THIS AUCTION IS OVER. See end of thread.
I launch an auction for a 5g pure gold mini bar (see attached photo).
You can post your bid on this thread. Don't PM me : others must be able to see what has been proposed.
This is an experiment, but it is for real :
DON'T PUT A BID IF YOU DON'T REALLY INTEND TO BUY THE BAR !
The bitcoin paiement will be required before I send the bar. Therefore there
is no point for you to post a fake bid here. You would just destroy your
reputation.
The auction will end when the 90,000th block will be published (it's funnier
than just using conventionnal time).
Postal fees will be included in the price.
When the block chain length reaches 90,000, I will lock this topic and therefore will not accept any more bid.
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Well ... in the United Kingdom there is the Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act, which requires people to disclose their cryptographic keys to the government upon request. The penalty for failing to do so is 2 years imprisonment. But the process is secret. You are not allowed to tell anyone that your keys have been demanded. And if you tell anyone, the penalty for that is 5 years imprisonment. I must not understand something. You can't tell anyone that you're in jail because you refused to discolse your keys, otherwise your penalty is even longer ? You must be kidding me ! |
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grondilu, I think your premise is flawed-- banishing the words "money" or "currency" will not help avoid future troubles with governments.
Well, it would make things a little bit more difficult for them. People speaking truth will make things difficult for them. Banning words only helps block communication. Well, we could do something similar to what is done with filesharing software : a legal notice that reminds that sharing copyright protected files is a criminal offence in several countries, and that the purpose of those software is not to do that. So, we could say something like : bitcoin is not claimed to be any form of money, nor currency. Using it as such is only a matter of individual choice and responsability. Well, it would make things a little bit more difficult for them. Do you think the government cares which words someone uses on some forum? Perhaps we can refer to this forum as a "message stick" instead of an internet forum. Then various internet-related laws will no longer apply to it? I'm just trying to find a solution to the recent EU directive http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1602.msg19013#msg19013 |
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grondilu, I think your premise is flawed-- banishing the words "money" or "currency" will not help avoid future troubles with governments.
Well, it would make things a little bit more difficult for them. |
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In order to avoid future troubles with governments, I wonder if we should consider banishing a few words from the bitcoin website.
Those words would be "money", "currency", and maybe "commodity".
Bitcoin could be presented as a software which provides a "electronic unit for barter exchange", or something like that. Maybe even the world "barter" should be avoided. Then bitcoin would be a software that provides insurance into the limited amount of a virtual quantity, and into the security of its transfer via internet.
Edit. Or maybe something like :
Bitcoin is a P2P network that uses cryptographic concepts in order to allow transfers of floating point values between nodes, while assuring that the overall aggregated amount is limited to 21 millions.
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"Bitcoin is honest, peer-to-peer money"
Or, for those who don't think Bitcoin is currency,
"Inflation is coming. Bitcoin barter tokens are the alternative."
"barter tokens" is a good way to express it. Nice. |
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