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Don't worry, when bitcoin price reaches $1K+, there will be lots of users using bitcoin. Currently bitcoin just worth too little that if you spend your precious coin you will have little left (suppose most of the users have 1-100 coin), but if one bitcoin worth a lot, then lots of people will start to spend them
Gavin said that if the price double every year then you can always spend half of your coins and still maintain the same purchase power. Suppose that you need 30K USD each year to have a decent life, you have to spend $30K worth of coin each year, and that is 300 bitcoin in today's price, means 600 coins at hand, maximum 10000 users have that amount of coin
But if that figure dropped to 30 bitcoin, things will be very different
It takes time to distribute the bitcoin first, currently it is through mining, but later when there are lot of people spending coins and the coin supply is shrinking, selling goods/services will become the main method to get coins
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Is there enough spacing between the modules to put gpu ram sinks on each individual chip? I have about 2 kg of them, yes kilograms  Infact just checked how much the bag of them weigh, it was close to 4 kilograms so I should have plenty for 1x3 module avalon once I get it. I was thinking people should replace the thermal compound used in the Avalon unit. Considering there are some people who found out some units have no thermal compound or had it improperly applied. Assuming that the thermal compound is crap and/or low efficiency, then transferring the heat from the chips to the heatsink would probably help some at higher clocks. A good number of thermal pads with 6 or 7watt/mk should help alot if this is the case. (It would be the equivalent to MX4.) The next problem after that is how (in)efficient the heatsink actually is at discharging the heat with the current design. Then finally finding an air temperature that allows the heatsink to work at a reasonable pace. (not too cold because it costs $$$ to keep it at that temp) etc The exposed metal area under the chips are shallower than the surface of the PCB, if you put a large piece of heatpad then maybe there will still be air gap between the metal part and heat pad, and you can't guarantee a good pressure on all the chips' contact area at the same time, so I think thermal compound is the solution: You put one big drop of the thermal compound on each metal area, and tighten the screws, the thermal compound will spread out depends on the gap distance between chip metal area and the heatsink, so that every chip will get a good contact with heatsink  The result of this handling is reduced temp of 3-4 degree under same fan speed, but since fan speed will always adjust according to temp3, the real effect is just lowered fan speed and maybe 1 degree lower temp. Anyway, you can be sure each chip get maximum cooling now. Then you can also add thermal compound between heatsink and bottom of the case, and cool the bottom of case with an external table fan, this can drop another 3 degree of temp Another important part is putting screws around VRM area, there is a very hot component at this area, MOSFETS maybe, but not like chips, this component only contact the surface ground layer of PCB, so adding screws will transfer the heat from the surface ground layer directly into heatsink  Since Avalon heatsink are so large, maybe it works even better by taking out those modules and use a large table fan to directly blow on them, or mount many 120mm fans on heatsink like someone did on ASIC miner blades, as long as you reach a certain CFM, the cooling effect should be the same. I usually like the bigger fan solution since it will provide much more airflow and much less noise |
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I was thinking people should replace the thermal compound used in the Avalon unit. Considering there are some people who found out some units have no thermal compound or had it improperly applied.
Assuming that the thermal compound is crap and/or low efficiency, then transferring the heat from the chips to the heatsink would probably help some at higher clocks. A good number of thermal pads with 6 or 7watt/mk should help alot if this is the case. (It would be the equivalent to MX4.)
Yes thermal pads would have been a better solution on such a large and uneven surface I'm quite sure. I'm still curious however to see how much individual heat sinks on the chips would make since then you don't have remove the original heat sink. Might take a while to apply them all though  "About install extra heat-sinks on each avalon chip: please do not do that. there is a air gap between the die and package top, install a heatsink on chip is useless. and will cause overheating. because the top PCB copper act as a heatsink too. do not cover them. " --NGZhang |
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I was checking the thermals for the package size they quote, and if it's got a spreader on top, the thermal junction would be something like 46W/cm2 which is not bad at all. If it's bare die with no lid, then it's probably closer to ~ 100W/cm2. I think a standard CPU/GPU W/cm2 is around 80-100W/cm2 nowadays, so "normal" thermal solutions should be ok.
7970 have 250w TDP at a die size of 19x19mm |
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What exactly does he mean?
I think most of the people use this word to refer to any kind of activity similar to this: Early adopters of a certain asset attract more and more people to join the game by a fast price appreciation and sell the over-valued assets to them later In this case, he might refer to bitcoin early adopters who accumlated large amount of coins pump up the exchange price and sell them to late adopters to profit But there is one thing he missed: Any kind of such scheme is rely on the supply of fiat money, so typically when FED tightens and fiat money supply becomes less, this kind of scheme will collapse. But bitcoin itself is money, it can exist without fiat money, as long as you use it to buy and sell goods/services Anyway, the early adopters' benefit is very clear due to current design of halved coin supply every 4 years, this is the main reason that people relate bitcoin to a ponzi scheme, and also the reason that many people want to make alt-currencies to become an early adopter. If bitcoin protocol defined a different supply speed of coin (for example daily coin supply only reduce 33% or 25% every 4 years), then this kind of complain will be less. But then people might not generate enough interest in it so quickly and it would not have that kind of degree of price appreciation Even if bitcoin are a ponzi scheme, due to its limited supply, this ponzi scheme might last hundreds of years  |
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Just a theory to try to explain the apparent imbalance between buyers and sellers.
If you are a buyer, exchanges are a fuss-free option to convert your fiat into BTC. If you are a seller of BTC, I can imagine that you may prefer cash from localbitcoins or other local buyers, over attention-grabbing wire transfers into your account. If you are a silk road seller, I can imagine you would like to avoid large bank balances that you cannot explain, and I can also imagine you would be willing to pay for the privilege (through accepting a lower price for your BTC). These sellers would also tend to do larger than "casual" amounts, regularly. All these concerns do not apply to BTC buyers. The authorities are also generally unconcerned about how you spend your taxed income, they tend to be a lot more concerned with incoming, untaxed proceeds of sales.
Nice reasoning. I did noticed that government even give you some tax deduction if you booked a large amount of after tax income by mistake, they don't even need any prove that you actually have those money |
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Not possibility, fantasy, no one is using bitcoin for legitimate purchases, just look at bitcoinstores sales figures. This correlates with my own business. Looks like paypal was right.
I just saw someone bought Humble Bundle with bitcoin https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=243164.0 |
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I'm a bit worried about kncminer's speed, the name of mars, saturn, jupiter sounds like a space project in 1970's and you know they usually have years and years of delays How about the Name of Superluminality? That reminds me of Albert Einstein I think the current trend in IT fashion is something contains following: X, Alien, nano, bio, psy Quantum could be the next big thing. I'm asking some friends in university of the posibility of a quantum miner, seems these researchers totally have no idea how a real application should be implemented. But D-wave's solution need absolute 0 degree, not very practical |
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What happens if you replace the original paste with Artic Silver 5 or other similar compounds such as high quality thermal pads?
AS5 is conductive, if it flows back to the chip through those small tunnels, who knows what will happen. MX4 is non-conductive and also cheaper if you want to apply for all 240 chips (a 20g tube is enough) |
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I'm a bit worried about kncminer's speed, the name of mars, saturn, jupiter sounds like a space project in 1970's and you know they usually have years and years of delays |
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The main reason that people need exchange is a trust problem. No one wants to send money first, so a trustworthy entity must be used
If this problem can be solved, then essentially you need only a broadcasting platform to matching each buyer and seller's order, and the real transaction will happen in bank wire and bitcoin network seperately, totally unrelated
Nashx, localbitcoin provide some kind of escrow service, but I think this kind of service is still centralized, need some more advanced solution
One solution I can think of is an insurance that everyone can buy to cover the transaction risk, but that do not prevent people from creating more and more scam, so some kind of credit rating system will be needed, but then the degree of anonymity will reduce
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Given average daily volume of 50000 bitcoin, you need only a couple of million dollars to hold the price above 100, not a big deal for institutional traders. Exchange price usually is a consensus, and for bitcoin the consensus is that the value will rise sooner or later due to limited supply
The mobile payment is the future, since in mobile payment you need to convert money, that step is always needed, so bitcoin is no different than any other mobile payment solution, and it has super low fee
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Did you get power brick or just use ATX PCI-E power connector?
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1TH ASIC mining rigs ready for pick up at your local supermarket -- dreams come true  |
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A few notes about the auto-clocking approach.
First and foremost, you can fry your hardware as you are running your avalon out of specification, especially if you try it on a batch 1 device with its lower power and quality PSU.
As is virtually always the case, manually fine tuning the final result will always be better than an automated process that guesses. With time I wish to get rid of the requirement to have fixed intervals and allow the user to specify any arbitrary value for the frequency, though the interface coping with it is a bit of an issue at the moment.
Ironically some people are finding the frequency a little too high and others a little too low. I suspect everyone is looking at a different endpoint for what is an ideal frequency in their eyes. The targets I've set are based on hardware error as a percentage, with hysteresis of +/- 0.25% - this is because a .5% increase in hardware errors works out to the amount the hashrate would rise with 2Mhz increments; i.e. if your hardware error count is going up at the same rate as the hashrate should rise, you are wasting energy. Ideally, a regression plot is what would be needed, getting the hashrate rise with each increment and the hw error percentage rise, and seeing when one grows faster than the other, but this is absurd stats to try to go looking for, especially when the values fluctuate wildly under normal circumstances only. By default with avalon-auto, you will get hardware errors of 1~1.5% . When looking at the hardware error count, make sure you are comparing it to the diff1 shares and not the accepted since you will almost certainly be mining at higher diff. Hardware errors are harmless in their own right but indicative of how hard you're pushing the chips for their available voltage and cooling. It sounds like these chips are capable of much more with more voltage but no one's done said mod yet.
The way to calculate hardware error percentage is:
HW * 100 / (diff1 + HW)
It's also worth mentioning that to simplify the calculation of different frequencies, the values passed to the avalon with this latest firmware on the "regular values", i.e. 300 and below, is slightly lower than the values that would have been passed to it, but it should make only a negligible difference to hashrate, lost in the noise of normal variance that happens with hashrate. The "timeout" value passed is also smaller now, which means you may hit the limit at lower speeds than you used to - but the old timeouts were too high, and even if you apparently had a higher hashrate, if you go back and check your stats you may find you were getting more rejects. This is because the higher timeouts were leading to duplicate shares being generated so it is only a disadvantage.
A sure fire sign that you're overdoing it is cgminer repeatedly being restarted by the avalon watchdog, or periods of hashrate dropping, or smoke coming out of your PSU.
Thanks for the detailed info! I noticed that during the first 10 or so hours the overclocked avalon was stable, but then it becomes more and more unstable, even the outside temp dropped significantly during night, cgminer restarted repeatedly, I feel that instability might comes from FPGA. What could be the cause of that? Have you observed same accumulated instability over time? P.S. also sent 1B to you, cgminer still rules |
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I just noticed that there is a trend of mobile payment ongoing, if you have to first purchase payment credit to be spent by your mobile phone later, then bitcoin is no difference than any other mobile payment solution, even better, since the merchant will have extremely low fee
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Today I passed by the local post office and saw that on their credit card reader terminal there is a small piece of instruction of how to use mobilephone to pay a certain bill:
1. Launch an app called Bart issued by the local banks
2. Input the amount of money they want to pay
3. Scan the QR code from local merchants' terminal
4. Pay, merchant terminal will issue a confirmation in couple of seconds
I think this is exactly how bitcoin should be used
From an user point of view, people have to first buy credits and store them in Bart app, that is the same as buying bitcoin and store them in an online wallet account, the only difference is that user's bank might directly give user the app and connect the app to their bank account, while purchase of bitcoin is still problematic
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was wondering how long it'd take people to notice ( and more importantly share the constant that we've released on github.) the number you are all aiming for is 450  of course, that's not really possible on just air cooling. Do you think that the batch 1 design power distribution can manage the increased power draw at those speeds? This is a concern, normally for overclock you need strong power supply module, not just only a large PSU. Someone already burnt one of the hash submodule even under 282Mhz, but that could be caused by a bad component. Anyway, I found out that hash rate tends to jump between 50Gh and 100+Gh wildly when heavily overclocked (350Mhz), not a good sign |
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That was i was missing. You suggest exhaust fan to lower the pressure right? What about pressure itself does it correlate to cooling? I mean higher pressure=better cooling?
If that is the case i will just switch blue fan of. I have noticed that intake temp raised "suddenly" with 3 degrees which is false of course i am measuring constantly with other tools:) Which proves the fact that a hot air hits tem sensor just below blue fan. In other words when pwm fans are operating in max it is completely useless. Is that true
PS: buy the way restarts may come from your script how often do you run it? Do you lose network connectivity. And finally i think cgminer needs at least 2 mins to consider pool is dead. So if your primary pool dies restart (cgminer monitor may restart it).
Pressure is decided by the fan speed, while the air flow affect the cooling effect For example, you block all the exists, then there will be maximum pressue in the case but worst cooling effect. Cooling effect is decided by how quick you can move the air through the case. On a radiator, a push and draw configuration always works better than single fan configuration My script always check every 3 minutes, but when I was running 0225 firmware and 300Mhz, machine can be up and running for more than 1 month and cgminer restarts every 1-5 days. So I'm not sure it is a firmware issue or a clock rate issue |
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