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If BTC-e tries to refund customers it will be using crypto after socializing losses.
I'm not sure that socializing the losses is a smart move. Innocent users will compensate the balances of "drug dealers and other illicit users" that originate the problem itself. You will use part of your money, to compensate illicit traders that cost you the money you lost. |
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so the balance should be high unless seized. Same goes for their crypto wallets.
I totally agree, I posted the same explanation several comments before  The point is "unless seized". If seized they cannot magically appear from thin air. Neither FIAT, nor crypto. We already know that something has been seized so... We can only wait and see how much |
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Opposite to what? When you deposit into an exchange you are not given fiat value into your exchange balance, but you are given only RIGHTS to trade onto their exchange with their offered value of your deposited asset.
You have to consider that, like crypto hot wallets, an exchange also have "fiat hot wallets" to address user fiat conversion requests on daily basis. This means that part of the crypto coins must have been converted in to FIAT before the takedown. To allow users to withdraw if requested. Exchanges usually convert a percentage of users' coins daily to feed FIAT hot and cold wallets. Therefore, since the "FIAT hot and cold wallet" are presumably lost, a complete refund of all the assets is quite difficult, especially on the FIAT side. But hey, I hope I'm wrong |
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Most guys never read previus posts.
Your exchange balance is not influencing exchange bank accounts the moment when you trade.
It is just a number with some value. You own cash or crypto only after withdrawal.
So this would mean that it should not matter if you were in btc / ltc / eth / fiat or whatever else, all users should be reimbursed no matter what. Quite the opposite |
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My guess (or, hope rather) is that they will take the users balance at the time of the takedown no matter what coins or fiat you were in, and give a corresponding amount of btc back.
This will be nearly impossible They cannot have coins to cover all the FIAT balances. Due to the fact that... the money was in FIAT balances. And that FIAT balances have been seized. |
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It would be ridiculous if they'd only refund the people that happened to be in coin at the time of the takedown. I was in the middle of trading, switching between fiat and coins every hour. If they do refunds, and they don't have access to fiat, they better give me crypto at current exchange rates.
It will not be ridiculous, unfortunately. It is a quite interesting situation. If we take in consideration how exchanges work, we have to keep in mind that they do not actually "constantly exchange" our orders for real. They only make real transactions when you cash out (in fiat or in crypto)... otherwise it is all a matter of database records that keep notes about how much do you have. Like a register. All this considered, your position was not really in FIAT neither in Crypto.There were not signed transactions on the blockchain for every order you made, neither FIAT transfers for every sell. I do not know how they will evaluate the situation. The only logical step is to use snapshots of users' balances at the moment of the takedown, and use these snapshots. But they cannot convert every FIAT balance in crypto. They will not have the coins to do that. Neither the FIAT (due to the seize) to re-buy them. I have hopes for BTC-e, they seem legit and they seem to have respect for innocent traders like us. But we have to keep it real. They have been take down and seized by 6 US agencies. There will be losses. Especially on the FIAT side due to the fact that the takedown mainly effected FIAT bank accounts. |
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Nothing really to do with BTC-e, I would imaging it's political roundup of suspected Russian hackers to help justify the recent US sanctions. Nonetheless it is interesting. In the original indictment pdf, there were mention to other people arrested. I supposed they were BTC-e employees, but they may very well be the other hackers mentioned in the article. |
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Guys, please keep the topic clean. It serves an important purpose. If you have to dump bullshit, simply open a new topic. "To date, part of the service funds were arrested by FBI"
Probably the fiat. hot wallets for automated trade settlement Although... they really chose to put the hot wallets on US resident servers? That's not clear at all. But they may have been in a country more friendly to US intervention than they thought. Ideally, the keys on such servers would be encrypted, with the database and exchange data being constantly dumped to remote servers. But it's really unclear how much of the infrastructure was left intact. That's the part I miss. How can a company such as BTC-e, which has anonymous shell companies in the virgin islands and so on... leave hot wallets valued hundreds of millions... in US friendly servers? I still believe that crypto assets are not in Fed hands, although this does not necessarily mean that they will return to right owners. Anyway: - A popular bitcoin mixer suddenly decided to stop it service 2 days before btc-e went down
- Alexander Vinnik arrested in Greece and suspected to be the head of btc-e
- On July 27th a popular antiddos hosting service moved all their network equipment to another datacenter (probably to avoid this type of problem in the future because they also host an exchanger service almost similar to btc-e)
From the russian thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2056158.msg20521221#msg20521221Anyone has info about point 1 and 3? Name of the services etc? |
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"To date, part of the service funds were arrested by FBI"
Probably the fiat. hot wallets for automated trade settlement Although... they really chose to put the hot wallets on US resident servers? |
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Latest update from BTC-E... https://twitter.com/btcecom/status/891928666065707008.... More detailed information about what happened to the BTC-e service. On July 25, 11:00 the FBI staff came to the data center where our server equipment was located and seized all equipment, the servers contained databases and purses of our service. Almost for 6 days we could not get from our hosting provider the sane information, what happened to our servers because of this information we publish only now. July 28, the domain was confiscated. To date, part of the service facility was arrested by the FBI The next update will include information on what options are available to restore the service, and also the procedure for obtaining funds, in the event that the service is not started. In the current situation, if the service is not started before the end of August, then from September 1 we will start the process of refund. In the next 1-2 weeks, we will evaluate and publish information about how much money fell into the hands of the FBI and what amount of funds is available for return. For all those who buried us, I will remind you that the service has always worked on trust and we are ready to answer for it. The funds will be returned to everyone! Arrest of the Russian Vinnyk Alexandra: Officially declare - Alexander was never the head or employee of our service. Sincerely btc-e P.S. In the subject write questions as far as possible we will answer them. Totally love these guys. Anyway, if they deliver... I'd gladly make a donation to help their legal defense. |
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Followed one of my LTC deposits (made several months ago). If someone has ever sent LTC to BTC-e can verify as well. |
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There has not been a tweet since I think that says alot even if BTC-e was always bad with communication
make sense... in this mess the last thing you want is tell everyone what you are about to do. To be honest, I consider my assets lost. But I also like to rationalize things. They cannot run away with the money. They will all face penal consequences. Right now, only Vinnik is indicted. BTC-e only received a fine (as far as we know). Or the feds have all the coins, or the coins should return to avoid greater consequences. If they steal the money, they will all face jail like Vinnik As I told, we can only "enjoy" the show. |
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There is goes whole balance ;(
If I were BTC-e ... my first move would be transfer all the coins to different secure wallets. To avoid that Vinnik gives something away, under federal threat who knows! It's almost entertaining. Really curious to see if something will happen in 5 to 10 days, as announced by the last tweet. |
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I think we lost all. Would like everybody have his money back,but if we lost better than russian btce guys steal our money and not usa goverment,that they are the biggest thieves
are you out of your mind? BTC-e has been sized because it was doing illegal business. Or, at least, one of its head operator was. They are responsible of all the money lost. And you also want to give them a hug? If the coins have not been seized by Fed (as it seems for now)... they have to return them. Otherwise they will be additionally charge of theft and fraud. They cannot simply disappear with the money. And no one should wish this. (unless you work at BTCe  ) As far As I can see, there are 3 options: 1). money has been seized. bye bye money. 2). btc-e still have all the money (at least the crypto assets) and they run for it. ---> They already have the feds on their tails. The feds would love to tear them all apart confirming that btc-e was "indeed an illegal operation". More arrests follow. 3). BTC-e dismisses the arrested guy. Pays the fine. Restores a mirror site, enforces rules, and gives back the money. The third option will: Keep most of BTC-e employers out of jail. Restoring (although it takes time) the valuable business they had. Return money to happy costumers that will praise their new god (btc-e). We will see how it plays. But please, stop wishing that Russian guys have steal the money |
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