You are taking everything I wrote out of context. I suggest that you re-read what I wrote without getting angry this time.

I understand your anger towards me for pointing out these issues with your service. I also understand that you just got your site off of the ground and that you probably put a lot of effort into it. It's not my intention to undermine anything you have accomplished. I thought I had made that clear in my first post. I'll reiterate it here again.


Lol! Okay pal. Let's just pretend that you live in a utopia and that nothing will go wrong then.

I'm done trying to help you.

That's not it at all. I'm warning you in public not only for your sake, but for the sake of others who might be thinking about following in your/my footsteps.


Could it be possible that I understand this type of business?


When you realize how little profit there is in exchanging, you'll see that my concerns for your safety are genuine.

Yes. That is correct.


Oh, I know. I'd insist on a bank wire for this trade. I'm not stupid.

I'll just put this here.

https://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=5386.msg80015#msg80015

If I knew how to move our conversation to this thread, I would.

I suspect it is to stop a run or limit exposure to possible exploits.

I can swing this trade. Email sent.

Well, both sites are already connected to the Bitcoin network. It's just a matter of moving the BTC and crediting an account on the other site. It's not really that complicated.

Sure.

Also, the forex markets/exchange providers should be careful not to reveal their identity to each other.

Yes, yes.. I know what Hawala is.

I already covered that.

You are unique if you are mailing cash to your customers. You are accepting responsibility for loss, de facto.

If your pockets are deep enough, you'll be ok. If your service is "buyer beware" and you don't mind complaints, you'll be ok. It's just something you should be aware of. You're welcome by the way.


There are more statutes on the state and federal level. To say that an individual is bound by the exact same statutes and regulations is just ludicrous.

I'm not wasting my time finding all of the statutes for you. I'm sure your lawyer can help you with that.


What he was arrested for and what he was convicted of appear to be two different things.


Of course. I wasn't implying that you did. I was implying the exact opposite. It's your explanation of Bitcoin to law enforcement and your perceived unwillingness to cooperate with a police investigation that will cause the problem.


You assume that your DOJ/whatever wouldn't step on Blizzard and halt their currency if people were avidly dealing drugs with it? I find that laughable.


Great.


You just answered my next question with this statement.


Okay, I should have been more precise. I made an assumption.

From my very brief look at the statues during the GoldAge case in New York, it appeared that a money transmitting license was only required if you were a LLC/corp. I assume this varies from state to state and since I don't specifically know which state you are LLC'd in I couldn't say for sure. If I was wrong, you get another "great" response from me.


I'm not talking about "legal rights". I'm talking about human rights. There's a huge difference between your constitution and a statute. It would be wise to learn that difference.


Great. I can sleep soundly now. I guess you'll be my canary to the south.

It will be almost zero losses when customers are sending cash to you. Assuming you don't do anything sloppy like change PO boxes suddenly, etc.

You will have losses for sure when mailing cash to customers. I am certain of this.

Wrong addresses, customers lying about weather or not they received it, misdirected mail (either on purpose or by accident), postal workers stealing it, theft right from the customer's doorstep, people move and forget to have mail forwarded, etc. I could go on and on.

The customer will not care what the excuse is. In their eyes you owe them cash. I realized this very early on and decided to do cash trades in only one direction for this very reason.


So you will seriously fill out a USPS claim for cash that was in an envelope? This may actually alert more thieves in the postal system to what you are doing.


Oh sure. When you have piles of people with less than 5 posts under their belt complaining all at once it is easy to see that it's a "joe job". The real problem is when you have established/trusted members of the forum complaining, your reputation is toast.


That's just plain wrong. Look up the LLC Acts in your state. Do they apply to you as a private citizen if you never registered an LLC? Nope. Are there more Acts that apply only to LLCs? You bet! Keep digging.

Protection of personal assets from what? An angry customer that is missing cash? They won't sue you for such small amounts of money. (Talking about dollars). In terms of Bitcoin, since it isn't a recognized currency (not legal tender) you can't be sued or sue for them. No court will honor contracts in Bitcoin.

The LLC is a hindrance. You should drop it.


I don't think so. An investigator will follow cash to you for a drug purchase and you'll have them at your door at 4am. (Drug dealers sleep in I guess. This is also your warning to remove any/all contraband from your premesis.) They'll likely look for drugs on your premises and find none.

You'll begin your long speech about how Bitcoin works and how you don't need to follow any KYC regulations. It will sound fishy. It's hard to say where it will go from there. They are uncharted waters. I'm sure it won't be fun.


You don't think that the ruling applies to Bitcoin. Interesting. Are you sure? I guess it all depends on if Bitcoin undermines the US currency or not, right?


They can go right to Blizzard (? I don't play games) and demand the data or tell them to stop it. They don't have that option with Bitcoin.


Have you looked at the US statutes around 'stored money items'? What about money transmitting without a license? As soon as Bitcoin is determined to be money-like they'll bend those statutes out of shape and upon your LLC. That's if the unique form of domestic terrorism crap isn't slapped upon you first.

A private citizen is exempt from the money transmitting license statutes as far as I can tell. Yet another reason not to use an LLC.

Human rights don't apply to LLCs. You have less rights in any legal situation. If you are going to try to stand on your constitution you will fail with a LLC. There are many examples floating around.

You'd be even better off if you let your customers mail cash to each other with a WoT or similar trust system. Be sure to host your site outside of the USA, drop the LLC, and you'll be far better protected.

I wasn't aware of the other thread. I haven't been on the forums for quite some time.


It's easier for customers to trust you ("trust is earned") than for you to trust your many customers.


Public complaints of missing cash will eventually 'do you in'. (Fake complaints aka "joe job", or real ones. It doesn't matter.) I hope I'm wrong for Bitcoin's sake. Again, not trying to be abrasive here at all. I'm being realistic.


It does more than "draw eyeballs". It encourages theft. No one is blaming you. I also know how bad customers are at following directions.


It's not about hiding at all. It's about restricting how many statutes/regulations can be applied to your operation. Registering an LLC implies tacit consent to far more rules than if you just did it without an LLC.


That will only work until an investigator follows a drug/*insert bad thing* purchase right to your PO box. Guess what? You are now involved in a "drug ring" or competing lottery or something else they don't like. The end result will be a legal mess.


There is a legal precedent. It's called a unique form of terrorism designed to undermine the value of the US currency. Look at the Liberty Dollar court case.

Want to know how you win a legal battle? Don't play.

I've been biting my tongue about this for quite a while now. I simply can't hold my words any longer.

First off, before I say anything, I'd like to commend Bitcoin2Cash and offer my respect. Running these cash in the mail type services are not easy. I don't see him as competition, nor does this post stem from jealousy. It stems from concern.

Does anyone know why my service doesn't *mail out* cash? It's not because I'm keeping it hidden in a secret bunker somewhere or that I particularly like the smell of US money. (Ever notice how rancid it smells? Canadian fiat doesn't smell anything like that. lol!)

It has to do with psychology. Let me explain:

There is a certain expectation from the receiver of mail (your customer) that the mail will actually get there. Ex: If you mail cash to your customer and it is lost the customer will expect you to replace it. Also, you will encounter dishonest people who will lie to get paid twice.

This isn't as problematic in the other direction. (Assuming that you weren't indeed the cause of the lost mail or problem in this example.) If a customer mails cash to your exchange, and it is lost, you'll never have a customer expect that you pay them Bitcoins anyway. They'll just (in most cases) sadly accept that the mail got lost on its way to you.

I know what you are thinking: tracked/registered lettermail. Well, this increases the cost per trade and it won't stop the thieves from claiming the envelope had been opened before they had received it.

Registered mail gets lost too. It happens. USPS might just refund the price of your stamp or something equally stupid. If you are planning on doing business outside of the USA you will have severe delays. Registered/tracked mail has to clear customs in most jurisdictions.

You have a registered LLC. That's also really bad. Why did you do that? You are just asking to be under even more statues/regulations. You are freer as a human being under common law. Trust me on that one.

Having the word "Cash" on the envelope in the past was an amateur mistake. It took a lot of will power for me to not say anything there too. I didn't want to come across as some sort of jealous asshole that wanted to see you fail.

If you are using PO Boxes you must be absolutely sure that the employees are not snoops. The first time a letter goes missing or is slightly torn open it is time to change POs! I'm serious.

Also, you are operating from one of the worst places in the world do be doing this. The DOJ and *insert alphabet soup agency* will come after you eventually because you are 'low hanging fruit'. To get me, there are far more hoops to jump through. Plus, what I'm doing isn't illegal in my country. It appears to be illegal in yours - my condolences.

This will certainly be an "up hill" battle for you. I wish you the best of luck.

Your "brother in arms",
The Madhatter

Not only that, but we also need more forex (mtgox/bcm) markets that are outside of the USA's jurisdiction.

The recent Liberty Dollar court ruling should make anyone in the USA, who is participating in a Bitcoin exchange service, very nervous.

Also, any large exchanger will draw the attention of local law enforcement eventually. I can think of many conditions that would lead an investigator right to the doorstep of a large and successful Bitcoin market.

What we need are thousands of little participating exchangers all over the world. It doesn't make sense to have a P2P currency with a few large centralized markets.

That's a non-issue.

I've been helping a client of mine integrate mybitcoin's SCI for the sale of tangible goods. Your site just has to collect the shipping details before you send the customer to the payment page. You can do all of your fancy shipping calculation stuff, and give the customer a firm price before they proceed.

I'm working with yet another client to allow for the payment of 1-month (and trial) website memberships too. His site just asks the user to choose a user/pass before we send the customer to the SCI. He is able to check if the username has been taken already / force the user to select a strong password. It works like a champ.

I've actually had a lot of people pay me in BTC lately for mybitcoin integrations. I have the permission from some of my clients to release some of these shopping cart plugins into the public domain. Once they are finished they will appear on bitcoinsoftware.com.

I will routinely post my auctions on this thread so that you all know that the auctions are not some impostor.


New auction:

Apple Macbook (black, v2.1)

http://www.biddingpond.com/item.php?id=342&mode=1

I'll just put this here: https://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=2511.msg55817#msg55817

This might help.

https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Smart_contracts

Hello all,

I don't get a chance to login to the forum as often as I'd like to anymore. I am far to busy running my Bitcoin empire.

I have disabled forum PMs for the time being because the PM email notification doesn't seem to work.

For questions/support/etc please email me. My email address and PGP key can be found on the Bitcoin4Cash site.

Thanks!
The Madhatter

Thanks.

I am finally caught up. I had to hire a "helper".

The combination of the Slashdotting on BitcoinGadgets, and the flood of orders to Bitcoin4Cash (due to the Bitcoin hitting USD parity, etc) just totally took me for a tailspin. I've been working 14 hours a day for the last 3 weeks and I totally need a vacation now.

I'm finally seeing the finish line. I had to delegate tasks to others. I had no choice. "The Madhatter" is now two people. How's that for an identity crisis?

Signed,
The Original Madhatter