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41  Economy / Long-term offers / Re: High-interest, low-risk 'investments' are like perpetual motion machines on: September 07, 2012, 04:16:18 AM
I agree with the general idea that people shouldn't be automatically assumed to be trustworthy, but there's something very fundamental you seem to be missing, and I'm happy for the opportunity to point it out.

Foolproof schemes to make high interest at low risk are the financial world's perpetual motion machines. They do not exist.

Perpetual motion machines may not be scams; there are misguided people who really do believe that they've violated the laws of physics and will prove all of those pesky scientists wrong. I'm sure there are people who truly believe that they've invented foolproof methods of investing lots of money with no risk, too, but I'm equally sure they're delusional.
If someone is taking deposits and offering high interest with low risk, it does not mean he thinks whatever he is doing with the money is low-risk. It means he is willing to absorb the risk, and commit his personal illiquid assets to pay it back if the risk doesn't pan out.

Let's take a simple example. Someone is very sure that the BTC price is going to increase and wants to buy $10K worth of bitcoins. But he doesn't have $10K and can't borrow it with traditional means. He does have a $20K car which he'd like to keep if possible (and which the bank won't accept as collateral), but he can trade it for a $10K car should the worst happen. He expects to sufficiently profit from buying to be willing to borrow at high interest; and he commits to repay by trading his car if he loses.

This whole arrangement is very risky for the borrower (whether he realizes it or not); but if the borrower is trustworthy, it is not risky for the lender.

In practice there are multiple ways to generate high ROI with various risk levels, such as currency speculation, arbitrage, mining, starting new businesses in the emerging Bitcoin economy, short-term loans, or investing with other people who are better equipped to generate ROI than you. By diversifying among various channels the overall risk can be lowered even if every single investment is risky; and by having valuable traditional illiquid assets there is a way to honor one's obligations even if the risk assessments went horribly wrong. In this case a smart investor can profit by accepting high-interest loans with no risk for the lender.

I'd like to especially point out short-term loans as one of the primary revenue streams of some of the big depositors; many people are willing to pay high interest for such loans. I don't know why they are, but the fact of the matter is that they are. Once again it is the depositor's role to assess and absorb the (relatively high) default risk of these individual loans. This isn't new with Bitcoin, also; p2p loans with 1% daily interest have existed for a while in the traditional economy.

To summarize, I'm not saying any particular depositor is or is not a scammer. I'm saying that given the diversity of investment opportunities, there is nothing fundamentally impossible about high-interest loans with no risk for the lender. The only catch is finding a depositor who can be trusted to be both honest and responsible with his liabilities; and of course, by the time it becomes easy to find one, the supply of time-money will be high enough that his offered rates will not be as high.

Can you point out one example of this ever happening in the real world?
42  Economy / Long-term offers / Re: The sorry and thank you thread on: September 07, 2012, 04:14:30 AM
INow that Pirateat40 closed down his operatations thanks to all the fud that was going on and growing on the forum, I expect everyone that spreads this fud, accused and insulted Pirate and the people that supported him to apologize.

Not only did Pirate brought us a great opportunity for investors (once in a lifetime actually), he did help stabilise and grow steadily bitcoin price, volume exchange, and thus contributed to the success of bitcoin. For that, Pirate, I want to thank you. You've done a wonderful work, and I hope you're stay around here.

Now, apologies on.

Do you really think that FUD is the reason why he shut down? Bullshit thread is bullshit. Don't count your chickens just yet anyway.

Of course it is. He needs large amount of coins to operate, why do you think he was paying 7% a week for?

Go read what he said, then. FUD is definitely not why he shut down.

If everyone turns out to get their coins back, then I'll be very, very happy I was wrong.

If he returns the funds it will be a boost for the bitcoin economy, 30k + coins now available for investment elsewhere.

Allow me to quote an excellent film, Breaking Away. "Refund? REFUND?!!!!" There will be no coins coming from this scammer. None.
43  Economy / Long-term offers / Re: Who Pays What? on: September 07, 2012, 04:12:24 AM
People pay 1% per week (and higher) on deposits because it their next cheapest source of funding - and that happens to be the market rate in this economy.  They happen to be able to generate higher returns, and thus leverage their positions.

There's no evidence that any of these deposit-takers can generate high returns. Just the monumental historical precedence of pirate. And it wasn't that long ago! Stop living in HYIP la-la land.

If you keep your eyes closed, you'll continue to avoid the evidence.  Haven't you noticed eight months of lending where people offer to pay superior rates, or the many posts from people confirming that they have paid much higher rates.  And the point I was making was about the cost of capital, rather than the returns.

Many ponzi schemes have gone on for years. Madoff, the Cuban brothers in Costa Rica, etc. No entity can ever pay consistent, market-crushing returns, without endgendering super high risk, or being an out and out scam.
44  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Desert island economy on Bitcoin without being connected to the internet? on: September 07, 2012, 04:09:37 AM
There would be no need for mining and no way to copy a wallet,
if those 100kBTC they take are paper-coins, or otherwise physical bitcoins (e.g. casascius) to start with.

Problems solved.  Cheesy


Brain wallet, for the win.
45  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Proposal to Bitcoin Central Authority on: September 07, 2012, 04:08:35 AM
Delete this thread, please.

That's the best you can do for your first post?
46  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Proposal to Bitcoin Central Authority on: September 07, 2012, 03:29:26 AM
On sealswithclubs.eu, you receive 1000 chips for a bitcoin. So if the price is $10 per coin, each chip is neatly one cent. Very nice.
47  Economy / Long-term offers / Re: Mybitcointrade.com | High Interest 2.5%-5%/w | 20% on Bonds| AAA- |Since 07/2011 on: September 06, 2012, 11:22:20 AM
not realy, good profits the last time. so we can give better rates for all.


This is the Ponziest scam on here. I will alert Byron Micon.
48  Other / Beginners & Help / Proposal to Bitcoin Central Authority on: September 06, 2012, 11:17:04 AM
It has occurred to me that the current exchange rate of $10.00 per bitcoin is very simple, easy and advantageous. Can the authorities keep it at this very even figure. Maybe chairman byron micon can appeal to the powers that be.
49  Economy / Long-term offers / Re: Who Pays What? on: September 06, 2012, 09:48:38 AM
I'm an eagle-eyed investor. Please change all ratings to FFF, for the sake of accuracy.
50  Economy / Long-term offers / Re: ★ VESCUDERO's Risk-free Weekly Term deposits at 1.5% ★ on: September 06, 2012, 09:41:24 AM
PONZI ALERT
51  Economy / Long-term offers / Re: Mybitcointrade.com | High Interest 2.5%-5%/w | 20% on Bonds| AAA- |Since 07/2011 on: September 06, 2012, 09:37:24 AM
PONZI ALERT
52  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Micon blew up Pirate on: September 05, 2012, 12:41:58 AM
You better recognize.
53  Other / Meta / Re: theymos, please BAN all common IP sockpuppet accounts on: September 04, 2012, 11:36:27 AM
Maybe we can get a moderator to wipe our asses for us too.
54  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: Why I trust Patrick Harnett on: September 04, 2012, 11:27:09 AM
While some people do trust me, I would like to point out there are some that do not.  Some of those people I have never had contact with, nor have they discussed with me the issues they have.  There is also a special group that have assumed I'm only here in Bitcoinland to steal money from people, but I'm not going to convince them otherwise.

I am aware of at least one "bet" about my failing to make repayments.

Якщо потік з'являється в режимі «короткострокового кредитування", або "довгострокові пропозиції," це Понці.

It turns out to be just more FUD:

Quote
If the flow appears in the "short-term loans," or "long-term proposals," is a Ponzi.

Totally laughable response. YOU are a scammer, and you're supporting more scammers. No investment product can guarantee returns anywhere near the frauds that are all over this board.

Я стає настільки високі, людина
55  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: Why I trust Patrick Harnett on: September 04, 2012, 10:48:51 AM
While some people do trust me, I would like to point out there are some that do not.  Some of those people I have never had contact with, nor have they discussed with me the issues they have.  There is also a special group that have assumed I'm only here in Bitcoinland to steal money from people, but I'm not going to convince them otherwise.

I am aware of at least one "bet" about my failing to make repayments.

Якщо потік з'являється в режимі «короткострокового кредитування", або "довгострокові пропозиції," це Понці.
56  Economy / Long-term offers / Re: How to Identify a Ponzi on: September 04, 2012, 07:57:49 AM
Easy. If a thread in "lending" or "long-term offers," contains a business proposal, it's a ponzi.
57  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Micon blew up Pirate on: September 04, 2012, 07:55:22 AM
If a thread appears in either "short-term lending," or "long-term offers," it is a ponzi.
58  Economy / Long-term offers / Re: ★ VESCUDERO's Risk-free Weekly Term deposits at 1.5% ★ on: September 04, 2012, 07:30:25 AM
I just wanted to comment in this thread because I had an interesting thing happen to me today, I wanted to redeposit 50 BTC with ves, however he denyed my deposit because he considers his current volume large enough. I commend him for this and his foresight in knowing his own limitations. Micron can say whatever he wants, but from this day forward (and beforehand) I believe vescudero to be an honest business man, or at the very least, not a ponzi.

Straight from the Bernard L. Madoff playbook. "Not accepting new accounts/deposits at this time."
59  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: Why I trust Patrick Harnett on: September 04, 2012, 07:07:56 AM
Matthew N. Wright. Any wagers on offer?
60  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Micon blew up Pirate on: September 03, 2012, 02:43:03 PM
Holy crap Canadia is a new state? When did we get that one.

Найдовшою лінією Київського метро є Сирецько-Печерська. Її довжина складає 23,8 км.
Найбільш напруженою є Святошинсько-Броварська, яка шодоби перевозить близько 630 тисяч пасажирів.
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