My BIN database shows:

As a lawyer pointed out to me, do not ask why they want bitcoins. Talk about the weather, fluffy bunnies, or bitcoins itself, but do not ask why they want the coins. At least in my area, if I can legitimately claim ignorance, if someone gets busted and says "yeah, that teamhugs guy sold them to me", I can defend with "i just completed a transaction, nothing more" and get un-involved in their case at that point.

How was this meetup? I missed it because I was sitting at wonderful Logan Airport enjoying TSA feeling me up for fun and profit.

The US Govt claims all .com, .net, .cc, .tv and .name domains fall under US jurisdiction. Source from http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2012/03/feds-seize-foreign-sites/.

I believe .info and .org also fall under US jurisdiction based on the contract-holder with ICANN. The contract with ICANN is what matters, not where you bought your domain.

It appears it was the Navy, not the CIA:


Taken from https://www.torproject.org/about/overview.html.en at Fri Sep 21 12:28:19 UTC 2012.

Please. Take down Silk Road. You will be a hero to the DEA and many other national law enforcements agencies all over the world. If it is so easy, please do it. Prove us idiots. Prove yourself a god. Victory is yours. The press will love you. You may get a parade in your honor.










of course, watch out for the drug cartels and users of SR, they may kill you soon after it goes away.

Hugs.

Getting back on point.....

The question wasn't about how SR is taken down nor was it about strengths and weaknesses of Tor. It was about what happens to the bitcoin economy when a major marketplace driving the economy goes away.

If the CMU research is to be believed, and there are many flaws with their research (which they admit in the paper if you actually read the whole paper), SR contributes a non-trivial amount to the bitcoin economy.

The question is one none can answer reliably (only estimate based on similar situations in other economies). Empirical evidence once SR goes away will be interesting.

I'd argue that the largest losers are the exchanges of global currencies to btc and back to global currencies.

Can the few boston-area bitcoiners crash an event of the NH group?

dwolla started to see a flood of suspected drug cartel mules and operants using their service for money transfers. It's likely US law enforcement came knocking a few times and helped educated dwolla on AML/KYC, especially after they got their venture funding. I imagine some venture fund lawyer freaked out and started demanding these rules as well to help protect their investment.

I may be new here, but I did search the forum and find a lot of answers. However, expecting people to trawl through internet forums versus just looking at your website seems a bit much.


Great. The link above is different than the link you give on your website. http://www.tokyo-cci.or.jp/ vs. https://www.b-den.net/. Thanks for the registration numbers.


Your privacy policy still links to your old address, https://mtgox.com/privacy_policy.


I read this thread. Hmm, perhaps the process is not as strong as you think it is then. Only you know how it degrades when fraudulent documents or collusion occurs. Explaining how my data moves through the system shouldn't break the system.

Thanks for the response.

I always find it odd how I have to identify myself and prove my identity to companies, but it's never the other way around. I'm considering using mtgox for buying/selling bitcoins. Given I'm likely to do $10,000 or more this year, the bitinstant limits get in the way at times. I'm patient and can wait for transfers and verification.

I started to look into whether I can trust mtgox with my personal info or not. Here's the first thing I did:

1. click 'about us'. It takes you here, https://mtgox.com/about-us. It talks about tibanne co, ltd. Hmm, what's tibanne?
2. click the link for business registration. It takes you here, http://www.tokyo-cci.or.jp/english/ibo/2353440.htm. I emailed the Tokyo Chamber of Commerce and Industry to ask how I can verify a business.
3. The answer is that anyone can register a business and join the CCI. There is no proof of anything required. You pay a fee and you are a member. Hmm.
4. I poked at tibanne co ltd website, https://www.tibanne.com. They appear to do some sort of link shortener/farming, irc network, no spam email provider, etc. Nothing else is related to banking or financial transactions.
5. I look up their US affiliate, http://www.mutumsigillum.com/ as linked from their page. The page isn't finished and hasn't been updated since 2009. Nothing about financial services. Nothing about mtgox either or even tibanne.
6. Their US address is an advertising agency based out of someone's house, see the google map of it, https://maps.google.com/maps?q=2915+OGLETOWN+ROAD,+%23+1085+%E2%80%94+NEWARK,+DE+19713&hl=en&ie=UTF8&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=55.455479,135.263672&hnear=2915+Ogletown+Rd+%231085,+Newark,+Delaware+19713&t=m&z=17&iwloc=lyrftr:m,8171648495381904605,39.680571,-75.705457
7. This got me wondering, and their Japan address is a hotel and virtual office provider, see the google map of it, https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Cerulean+Tower+15F,+Sakuragaoka-cho+26-1,&hl=en&ll=35.656627,139.69963&spn=0.001759,0.004128&sll=35.664035,139.698212&sspn=0.056275,0.132093&hq=Cerulean+Tower+15F,+Sakuragaoka-cho+26-1,&hnear=Shibuya,+Tokyo,+Japan&t=m&z=19&iwloc=A
8. The virtual office provider is also listed as 'The Executive Center', http://www.executivecentre.co.jp/. The company is actually a Hong Kong company with various options in a few large cities in Asia.
9. I looked at the office address for tibanne, here's the english version, http://www.executivecentre.com.hk/location/shibuya_cerulean_tower-tokyo.
10. I had a japanese speaking friend call the number to see if tibanne was really there. They have a cubicle, but the receptionist said she hasn't seen anyone there for months.
11. What's interesting is the https://www.tibanne.com/contact.html lists a different address. Which is roughly here, https://maps.google.com/maps?q=round+cross,+Shibuya&hl=en&ll=35.663331,139.701314&spn=0.001846,0.004128&sll=35.664897,139.707685&sspn=0.029532,0.066047&hq=round+cross,&hnear=Shibuya,+Tokyo,+Japan&t=m&fll=35.66318,139.701494&fspn=0.001846,0.004128&z=19. The astute observer will notice this is roughly 750m away from the virtual office.

None of this makes me feel good about providing a passport and utility bill to become a verified customer.

Dear mtgox,

Here are some ideas to make you seem much more legitimate:

1. Provide a copy of your business license. The Tokyo CCI said all businesses must be registered with the tax authority in Tokyo. This is public information, assuming you can read/write Japanese and know how to find it.
2. Provide a phone number that reaches a real human, not a virtual receptionist at a virtual office.
3. Explain, in detail, how our identifying documents are handled, stored, retention times, and when copies are destroyed.
4. Post pictures of your employees with contact info, leave the exif image information intact.
5. Explain the US affiliate and what they do.
6. Explain how you check the identifying documents. Unless you check a national clearinghouse tied to a verified government database, it's easy to fake these documents. This is doubly true for Americans.

Has anyone actually been to the mtgox offices to meet them?
Has anyone actually met the CEO?

For someone with a large trading volume and proclaimed 80% of btc transactions, you'd think they would be at any of the past bitcoin conferences or have made public appearances somewhere.

Added at Tue Sep 18 14:22:23 UTC 2012: For some reason this part was cut off from my copy and paste into the form:

Let me be clear. I want to trust mtgox. I want to use them as a btc bank and work with them as a real company. I'm fine with mtgox being 2 people in a virtual office to get started, but given we realistically can't all fly to Tokyo to meet you and have a meeting, we're forced to evaluate the company by other means. I do travel a lot for my day job. I may be in Tokyo in early 2013. I'll find time to meet with mtgox people if I'm there.

Yes, this is a valid flaw in the plan.

Now that I'm finally not a newbie, I can post here. I'm from south of Boston and well, hi.

I somehow expected everyone focusing on the 4% rather than the protocol itself.  Pretend I'm paying 0%, what would you change in the process?

The coworker is willing to pay for the trust at 10% commission. They know about localbitcoins and mtgox, and a million other places. The point is they trust me. Me paying 4% is fine because I've used bitinstant in the past just fine without issues. I make 6.01% for clicking some buttons and putting my reputation on the line (as little risk as it is).

A coworker has decided they are all in and wants to buy $5000 of bitcoins from me instead of some online exchange. I've done a few transactions, but nothing this large. The goal is to protect both of us from stupidity. If it also covers bad intent, great.

0. We agree on a commission rate for this transaction. Currently at 10%.
1. Coworker hands me $5,500 in cash and their bitcoin address. (If check or money order, uhh, escrow I guess until it clears in 3-5 days)
2. I do basic checking to make sure the cash is real and not printed in the past hour with their laser printer.
3. I buy $5,500 of bitcoins from bitinstant via dwolla to my preferred address. I lose $219.45 to bitinstant commission.
4. I then use the bitcoin client to transfer $5,000 worth of btc from my preferred address in #3 to their address.
5. We wait for blockchain.info and 1 confirmation at least independently of one another.
6. I deposit the $5,500 in cash in my bank account to reimburse the expense.

I'm $280.55 btc of bitcoins richer, coworker has $5000 in btc.

Any problems or improvements to this cash transaction protocol?

More posts for newbies.

Start a competitor to your past employer with the data as seed data. Never sell it. Never share it.

People are getting worked up over the ethics of this data. Every sales person in the world takes their client list with them when they leave or are fired from their employer. Sales people are poached by competitors solely because they have know the client list of the competition. Sales, biz dev, press officers, CxOs are all poached by competitors for their data and connections. The business world is a brutal place when you see it from the executive level. Ethics quickly go out the window when you deal with 8+ figure revenues and profits.

I had that same problem. Because no one uses the moneygram phone, the cashier had no idea what to do with it. The manager came over to help out and had to pull out the cashier manual and follow along to figure it out.

I'm subbed to it, I just can't reply as a newbie, yet.

I've been looking at the bitcoin world for a while. I'm thinking about the bitcoin world like I thought about the ebay world when it first started. I ran an ebay auction business, because people were nervous about signing up to ebay, dealing with strangers on the Internet, and frankly, people are lazy. It's easier to drop off a bunch of stuff with me, I sell it for them, take a cut of the sales, and send them the check. I made a decent amount of money on the side until lots of these businesses started to pop up and then I shutdown and moved on.

As I talk to the common person on the street about bitcoins, here's what comes up:

1. Where do I get them? Can I get them locally? Can you get them for me?

2. What can I buy with bitcoins that I cannot buy with cash/credit today?

3. Buying bitcoins seems full of peril and I'm tying my only bank account to various unknown companies/websites.

4. How can I use bitcoins to send money back home instead of moneygram/western union/bank transfer?

I see a local arbitrage opportunity for being a bitcoin proxy, selling up the local aspect, and building up a reputation as a trusted middleman as an exchange. Eventually, it will end if/when bitcoins become much more commonplace. However, until then, it's a short term opportunity to make some money on the side. I'd guess 1-2 years is the length of the business. Yes, there are websites that do this already, but no big deal. I'm not trying to compete with them. I'm trying to tap into the majority of people who don't trust the Internet and don't trust their bank either. Basically, I'm the offline bitcoin exchange.

Item 4 intrigues me the most. There is a local 'send money home/payday loan' shop around the corner from me where I know their accountant well. They are making millions of dollars each for three people doing simple cash to wire transfers. People don't trust the Internet, so they stop by the shop and wire money home. They could do it from their bank if they had one. Lots of their customers are questionably legal immigrants or migrant workers here on short-term visas.

Another option is to become a proxy purchaser for others. Pay me bitcoins, I'll buy what you want on amazon, newegg, nordstom's, zappos, etc. The packages are shipped to me, and then I ship to you. Sounds simple. Call it personal shopping or private shopping or whatever.

Another option is for the local businesses around me to feel better about accepting bitcoins because they know I'm the local bitcoin bank. They can just exchange their bitcoins from customers to me for local cash and be done with it.

I've started looking into doing all of these, but can't get normal answers on what laws I fall under, if any. I'd rather not find out the hard way after a raid/warrant.