I always find it odd how I have to identify myself and prove my identity to companies, but it's never the other way around. I'm considering using mtgox for buying/selling bitcoins. Given I'm likely to do $10,000 or more this year, the bitinstant limits get in the way at times. I'm patient and can wait for transfers and verification.
I started to look into whether I can trust mtgox with my personal info or not. Here's the first thing I did:
1. click 'about us'. It takes you here,
https://mtgox.com/about-us. It talks about tibanne co, ltd. Hmm, what's tibanne?
2. click the link for business registration. It takes you here,
http://www.tokyo-cci.or.jp/english/ibo/2353440.htm. I emailed the Tokyo Chamber of Commerce and Industry to ask how I can verify a business.
3. The answer is that anyone can register a business and join the CCI. There is no proof of anything required. You pay a fee and you are a member. Hmm.
4. I poked at tibanne co ltd website,
https://www.tibanne.com. They appear to do some sort of link shortener/farming, irc network, no spam email provider, etc. Nothing else is related to banking or financial transactions.
5. I look up their US affiliate,
http://www.mutumsigillum.com/ as linked from their page. The page isn't finished and hasn't been updated since 2009. Nothing about financial services. Nothing about mtgox either or even tibanne.
6. Their US address is an advertising agency based out of someone's house, see the google map of it,
https://maps.google.com/maps?q=2915+OGLETOWN+ROAD,+%23+1085+%E2%80%94+NEWARK,+DE+19713&hl=en&ie=UTF8&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=55.455479,135.263672&hnear=2915+Ogletown+Rd+%231085,+Newark,+Delaware+19713&t=m&z=17&iwloc=lyrftr:m,8171648495381904605,39.680571,-75.7054577. This got me wondering, and their Japan address is a hotel and virtual office provider, see the google map of it,
https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Cerulean+Tower+15F,+Sakuragaoka-cho+26-1,&hl=en&ll=35.656627,139.69963&spn=0.001759,0.004128&sll=35.664035,139.698212&sspn=0.056275,0.132093&hq=Cerulean+Tower+15F,+Sakuragaoka-cho+26-1,&hnear=Shibuya,+Tokyo,+Japan&t=m&z=19&iwloc=A8. The virtual office provider is also listed as 'The Executive Center',
http://www.executivecentre.co.jp/. The company is actually a Hong Kong company with various options in a few large cities in Asia.
9. I looked at the office address for tibanne, here's the english version,
http://www.executivecentre.com.hk/location/shibuya_cerulean_tower-tokyo.
10. I had a japanese speaking friend call the number to see if tibanne was really there. They have a cubicle, but the receptionist said she hasn't seen anyone there for months.
11. What's interesting is the
https://www.tibanne.com/contact.html lists a different address. Which is roughly here,
https://maps.google.com/maps?q=round+cross,+Shibuya&hl=en&ll=35.663331,139.701314&spn=0.001846,0.004128&sll=35.664897,139.707685&sspn=0.029532,0.066047&hq=round+cross,&hnear=Shibuya,+Tokyo,+Japan&t=m&fll=35.66318,139.701494&fspn=0.001846,0.004128&z=19. The astute observer will notice this is roughly 750m away from the virtual office.
None of this makes me feel good about providing a passport and utility bill to become a verified customer.
Dear mtgox,
Here are some ideas to make you seem much more legitimate:
1. Provide a copy of your business license. The Tokyo CCI said all businesses must be registered with the tax authority in Tokyo. This is public information, assuming you can read/write Japanese and know how to find it.
2. Provide a phone number that reaches a real human, not a virtual receptionist at a virtual office.
3. Explain, in detail, how our identifying documents are handled, stored, retention times, and when copies are destroyed.
4. Post pictures of your employees with contact info, leave the exif image information intact.
5. Explain the US affiliate and what they do.
6. Explain how you check the identifying documents. Unless you check a national clearinghouse tied to a verified government database, it's easy to fake these documents. This is doubly true for Americans.
Has anyone actually been to the mtgox offices to meet them?
Has anyone actually met the CEO?
For someone with a large trading volume and proclaimed 80% of btc transactions, you'd think they would be at any of the past bitcoin conferences or have made public appearances somewhere.
Added at Tue Sep 18 14:22:23 UTC 2012: For some reason this part was cut off from my copy and paste into the form:
Let me be clear. I want to trust mtgox. I want to use them as a btc bank and work with them as a real company. I'm fine with mtgox being 2 people in a virtual office to get started, but given we realistically can't all fly to Tokyo to meet you and have a meeting, we're forced to evaluate the company by other means. I do travel a lot for my day job. I may be in Tokyo in early 2013. I'll find time to meet with mtgox people if I'm there.
It seems that you are fairly new here and that you did not search on the forum about who and what we do, no problems with that. This said most of the information you are looking for are publicly available on our website OR on this very forum.
1.
https://www.b-den.net/company/show/id/6530 (Tokyo Chamber or Commerce) and found here
https://mtgox.com/about-us. Mt.Gox is own and operated by Tibanne (Explaining why our SSL is certificated is signed Tibanne K.K. Also please understand that no companies in Japan are forced to register to the TCC.
This said here you are the official registration number for both companies in Japan (Certificate of Incorporation).
Kabushiki Kaisha MTGOX registration number: 0110-01-070356
Kabushiki Kaisha TIBANNE registration number: 0110-01-069784
2. Mt.Gox phone number and address and Tibanne are the same one. We moved, but still own two offices there, from the Cerulean Tower to our own office (Announced on Facebook : here you are some photos for you
http://www.facebook.com/MtGox/photos_stream). So yes it is true that we are no longer at the Cerulean tower and that they did not see us since a long time. Well he had a meeting there yesterday anyway. But yep we are now at Round Cross Shibuya. I am sure that the Chamber of Commerce will update this at some point.
3. TOS
https://mtgox.com/terms_of_service. Need more information? Please contact the support.
4. Why? I can understand that you could be interested in knowing who's at the top of the company (Mark Karpeles, Linkedin if you friend!
http://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=12664999) or the management (No one as of yet), but having the full list of our company staff is of no use to you or we are oblige to give it to you. Does Google, Yahoo, Facebook, Intel... Give a list of ALL its staff down to their janitor(s)?
5. We have Mt.Gox North America but this company is not active since several month. As for Mutum Sigillum you have mention of this company here and what this company does for us
https://mtgox.com/press_release_20120808.html. Basically it handles our Dwolla account for our US users.
But I definitively agree with you, Tiabnne and Mutum Sigillum has been left on the side, design-wise, and we are working on upgrading them as soon as possible.
6.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=86224.0. Unfortunately and as you may understand we cannot give you details on this matter since these information could be used against us and make the overall AML/KYC procedure useless.
For someone with a large trading volume and proclaimed 80% of btc transactions, you'd think they would be at any of the past bitcoin conferences or have made public appearances somewhere.
Google is your friend! I could in a second find several video interviews of Mark.