|
Wasserman99, You said you need an agreement.
Tell us your milestones so we can talk about the values to assign to them!
|
|
|
|
|
First some important criticism of the 2 suggested plans, then maybe I can be productive.
looking4thegrail's plan sounds good at first but it has a major flaw that really screws stage 1 people.
Investors must decide if they want in or out BEFORE the coin is released to anyone. You can't wait and see if the coin is a success then decide if you wanted in the ICO.
Example: I'm phase 1 - you can't take a share of my coins and reserve them for yourself. Then you will buy them if they profit or return them to me if they lose money? That is silly as hell.
If you want to give stage 2 investors an Opt in or Opt out second chance, that is fine. But they have to decide before the coin exists. If they don't want them, then they are my coins and I want them up front, not after they are deemed bad.
BoldNinja's plan - They have plenty of resources to start working so giving them 30btc for something that cost 4btc doesn't make sense. They don't need the second half of the entire project's funds until they are working on the second half of the project.
Moving Forward - Wasserman99.. Maybe we can move this forward if you tell us what your Milestones are, then we can talk about the value of each them. What features are you going to deliver for sure? Ocaml smart contracts, Debit cards, colored coins? What order will you do them?
|
|
|
|
2 days and still no response from SJ. SJ it's hard to write a couple of lines of your opinion? Trusting to you is less and less day by day.
He already said his opinion, wasserman doesn't need more money already to start work on the project. They hit an impasse, wasserman won't do any work until they have an agreement. Now stage 2 investors need to tell him what they want done with their money via message, because he can't, in good conscious, hand it over to wasserman without individual approval. |
|
|
|
You're just being negative for no reason now. It is beneficial to stage 2 people except for the fact that there could be a day delay before SJ gets back to them if they want to cash out their XPO. It is the best option though. Waiting for we don't even know how many weeks while a bunch of other icos swarm is not good. This is the best solution. Assuming wasserman delivers, stage 2 people will be in. If wasserman doesn't deliver, it doesn't matter that we were diluted anyway.
I'm just being negative for no reason? I don't think you have thought this plan through. It is very unfair to stage 1 investors. If the coin does good, stage 2 gets the profit. If the coin does bad, stage 1 gets the lose. You are essentially giving stage 2 an open option to force sell their coins to stage 1 investors at a time of their choosing. Sorry but your plan is wack. more explanation for people who don't understand my point: We are all investors, we put in money and get a share of coins. What you are suggesting is to take some of the coins, without paying for them, and set them aside for you. Then later, if the coin is a success you say OK, now we want to buy these coins. If the coin fails, you say never mind, here are your coins, they suck, we don't want them, you can have them back now that they are worthless. PS. The fact that anyone thinks this is fair makes me want to face-palm.. You want to wait and see if the coin turns a profit before you retroactively invest in the ICO. That is flippin crazy!  |
|
|
|
....
Its like stage 2 people are reserving coins (with 0 cost and risk) that would have been split among stage 1 people. If the coins profit, they take them. If the coins lose money they can decide, after the fact, to dump those coins on stage 1 people.
.....
But 1st stage people can DUMP before 2nd stage guys will come to party, they can dump so hard that they will have less than ICO price(seeing realty shitty wallet). 1st stage people have 1st opportunity to get out before 2nd stage people will have chance to dump. If DEVs deliver poor beta wallet 2nd stage people are in ass, escrow have to release founds while 1st stage people are dumping hard to 0000 sat. Whole point of escrow was to protect people from scamming devs that mean taking money away releasing 0.1BTC wallet to dump and vanishing... Stage 2 people wouldn't care, because they can dump those worthless coins on the stage 1 people at 100% original ico value. Thus screwing over stage 1 people. If there was profit, stage 2 takes it. If there was lose, they dump it on stage 1 investors. That plan is nonsense if you think about it. |
|
|
|
This plan is also bad! That plan would mean that phase 2 people wait and see what Opair is trading for at exchange. Then decide if they want to release the funds to wasserman and get coins, wait or get a refund? Its like stage 2 people are reserving coins (with 0 cost and risk) that would have been split among stage 1 people. If the coins profit, they take them. If the coins lose money they can decide, after the fact, to dump those coins on stage 1 people. This plan screws over stage 1 people, and we certainly didn't agree to this sort of thing. I'm afraid the only fair thing is for investors to decide if they want in or out before the coins are distributed. |
|
|
|
I don't see where is the problem. Simple
You received 60 BTC which is a lot in stage 1. That should get you a head-start and to get trust from investors :
1. Pay the bounties from stage 1 you will be left with more than 50 BTC
2. Release the wallet and distribute the coins if you think you got much less than you wanted well that's a risk every developer has to accommodate sometimes less is more in crypto ( a lot of now sucessful projects even started as a joke and are now in top 50 coins without any starting funds) apart from that I'm OK if you take that 9% that was reserved for PoW as development fund and that should give you motivation for your project to be properly developed.
Now for the escrow :
1. You get 20% of escrow when you distribute coins and post working basic wallet along with source (that's additional 15-18 BTC I don't know how much was raised in stage 2 )
2. You get 20% when you list it on Bittrex and not some shitty exchange (3 BTC listing fee will get you additional 15 BTC for development)
You are still left with more than 80 BTC (stage1+stage2) you can start developing the wallet you promised.
3. You get 20% when you release wallet you promised (beta one)
4. You get 40% when it's functional (I'm not saying smart contracts, debit cards, ... ) but that it is stable
I think this is a bad plan! Do not give wasserman 15 BTC to release a basic wallet that cost .5 btc to produce and is supposedly already completed? Do not give wasserman 15 BTC for listing on exchange that cost 3 BTC. Do not give wasserman 9% POW, that is suppose to secure the network. And I did not sign up for that. Wasserman has our $35,000 in his pocket AND 2 developers on the team. Supposedly a lot of work is already done and close to release or beta. PS - Phase 2 investors, you have the power to decide what SebastianJu does with your money. Send him a message to verify your stake and cast a vote for whatever.
|
|
|
|
It is so funny, many people want to release the fund, so they should check this thread for the answer.  If they all read it and start to think with brain, they will not hope SebastianJu releases the fund. Who wants to release the funds? It are just kooke and wasserman, majority in the thread trust SJ to hold the coins. I saw this, kooke said there are 15 ppl, therefore i wrote many ppl. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1558596.msg16122869#msg16122869BTW, looks like kooke is wasserman's shill or alt, he likes copy-paste, and defames those 2-word acccount scam busters as "competitor's shills". ROFLMAO. Kooke is wassermans alt or wife or manlover. Both of their accounts went idle in late October 2014 and came back right before Opair. Kooke came back a week before Opair was announced. I've asked them a bunch what their relationship is but they refuse to answer. If we would have asked at start of ICO I'm sure they would have said they don't know each other. |
|
|
|
|
Wasserman needs to stop asking for more money, deliver an Ocaml beta wallet and pay sig campaign with the ~35kusd of our money that he has in his pocket. Right?
Not that it matters now but I warned about no escrow milestones over and over while the ICO was underway. I think wasserman didn't want to talk about it before because he didn't want people to know he'd try to collect funds with minimal effort.
You guys are lucky that SebastianJu is protecting you from a hit and run.
|
|
|
|
|
I think it would be best to wait until after Ocaml beta wallet before releasing money. It might slow down the progress but at least it might actually get done.
Your team has 2 programmers and $35,000 USD. You should be able to deliver something real. Wasn't it said that the Ocaml wallet was somewhat close to release anyways?
I think it would help you a lot to release the wallet with Ocaml beta functionality, even if it runs on a test network and has bugs.
7btc is way too much for the signature campaign considering the number of people involved and the ICO total funds. However If that is what people were promised before the ICO started then I think you owe them. Even though it probably works out to a lot more money per person than it should.
|
|
|
|
|
You have 2 devs on the team already don't you? You don't need any more money for them to work part time.
Pay the sig campaign from your stage 1 (65+btc right?)
Release a coin, add to exchange
Use the remaining ~$30,000usd to post the beta of Ocaml wallet
Then you get more money.
Just my opinion.
|
|
|
|
Looks like wasserman is asking for all the stage 2 escrow to be released already but SebastianJu isn't comfortable with that (for obvious reasons). Sebastian made a post showing his conversation with wasserman. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1558596.msg16105634#msg16105634I think SebastianJu is giving stage 2 investors the chance for a refund? If anyone takes it, I suggest you tip SebastianJu for doing the right thing (he doesn't earn a commission for refunding an ICO). The moment wasserman handed over the last day ICO funds (12btc or so?) instead of running, I knew he was going to try something like this... |
|
|
|
|
Suddenly mining LBRY is less profitable than eth/sia. Why did so many people switch to mining this coin? Seems like it is no longer a good choice.
|
|
|
|
I don't know about screenshots etc, but what I know is this is not a sign of scammers. or simply they haven't declared scammers yet.
I think this is so hurry to call someone scammer until they are giving efforts and active constantly.
The dev team is fake. Frank and Hao aren't real or they would have proved it. The reason they don't prove it (wasserman says they want to stay anon) does not make sense. They already released their (fake) linkedin profiles with full name, employer and a picture at the start of the ICO. What kind of coin founder wouldn't participate in the ICO or talk to the community at all during it? What kind of dev team would let this easily dispelled FUD cost their ICO a bunch of money? Frank and Hao are obviously fake, if they were real then we would know it by now. Raising money to start a company using fake employees is fraud. Fraud is a scam. Therefor Opair is a scam. I am tired of explaining this to people who are essentially saying "Don't call them a scammer until they run away with everyone's money". That mentality is what makes the bitcointalk.org announcement forum a scammers paradise. |
|
|
|
The escrow service will release btc soon, but it should not since its a scam.
I don't see why Sebastian would hold it though, its stated in their contracts that he will sent he funds after 7 days so long as the wallets are already set and ready. Not sure if he will hold it and consider the users who scream scam to opair. If funds are released, just say good bye to your btc. Where is the contract that you are talking about? |
|
|
|
The escrow service will release btc soon, but it should not since its a scam.
Who said escrow (SebastianJu) would release money soon? I doubt that is true unless you know something that I don't. |
|
|
|
|
I don't think Sebastian will hand over the stage 2 funds just for a copy paste wallet but who knows what wasserman expects?
It is possible that Wasserman and maybe Kooke are programmers and wanted to make a real coin. Maybe they thought they would get more ICO money by faking an older, experienced German programmer as the lead dev instead of showing who they really are.
|
|
|
|
Wasserman is doomed. He promised to make a coin software from scratch with a functional programming language. Does someone know such a coin? He chose OCAML. So he can't copy and paste just a wallet to get the money from Sebastian.
But in the same time he must stay anonymous, or approx. 50% of the ICO money is taxed away, investors could ask for money back, he could be sued from me for false accusing and a lot of other stuff.
So the developing of the coin will stall very fast and someone, who is a real community manager will make the same crypti/lisk take over and get all glory and money.
Do I feel pity about this, not too much...
please clarify, did wasserman send ALL(phase 1 and phase 2) the ICO funds to sebastianJu ? No, he sent phase 2 only. But he did send the btc collected on the final day of phase 2, instead of running off with it. Which means he has some sort of plan to get more money. |
|
|
|
|
Who knows what his plans are. He sent the last day escrow money so he has some kind of plan.
Any idea what he could try to do?
Try to deliver something to unlock the funds?
Is some kind of blockchain attack possible? Maybe give yourself a ton of free coins and dump them on the exchanges?
|
|
|
|
|
Show Posts
