I'm very excited about this service! I first found out about it via your Tor site. A list of stores where these can be used without verifying name, address, etc. would be very useful.
See http://bitcoinshop.com |
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The best new Android phone service in USA, MetroPCS, now accepts Bitcoin for new phones and accessories. See MetroPCS, under New York City, on http://bitcoinshop.com I love the new "LG Optimus M" with Android 2.2..... only US$50 per month... including everything and tax... for Unlimited Everything... with No Contract. And in Manhattan at least, the signal / service is BETTER than Verizon... in my experience. |
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I need a company that can supply various sizes and styles, for windows, and cash registers, counters, displays. etc.
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Yes!
Great Idea.
I will create that Facebook fan page later today when I get home.
Stop PayPal, Use Bitcoin
Coming soon. Check back here in a couple of hours. :-)
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Basically, bring it on. Let's encourage Wikileaks to use Bitcoins and I'm willing to face any risk or fallout from that act.
No, don't "bring it on". The project needs to grow gradually so the software can be strengthened along the way. I make this appeal to WikiLeaks not to try to use Bitcoin. Bitcoin is a small beta community in its infancy. You would not stand to get more than pocket change, and the heat you would bring would likely destroy us at this stage. Wow. Satoshi gets more than "just one vote".... in my opinion. Let's not let this issue divide us. RHorning, and others, your commitment to what's right, freedom of the press, etc is inspiring. It makes me want to support Wikileaks even more than ever. Also, our hero in Congress, Ron Paul, coming out supporting Wikileaks... is very inspiring too. ( Did you see this? Ron Paul - Julian Assange - Federal Reserve | http://goo.gl/NIBsk ) I propose a win-win solution to this. Let's form a Wikileaks Support Task Force.... where we brainstorm about ways to help Wikileaks ..... without bringing Bitcoin into the battle (or "war"). We are a large group of very smart guys here. We can probably put our heads together and think of 1000 ways we could help Wikileaks .... even in areas around funding, donations, etc.... WITHOUT recommending Bitcoin. There are so many ideas we could give them. Even, in the area of money, recommending other alternative payment systems ... Liberty Reserve? I don't know... But you guys do! Recommend something far better than PayPal --- super easy for Americans to use --- (but something other than Bitcoin). MoneyBookers.com? GoldMoney.com? Paxum.com? You tell me... We can put our collective heads together and come up with 1000 great ways we can HELP Wikileaks achieve what they need.... without mentioning Bitcoin. Honestly, I'm not sure that Bitcoin really is their best alternate funding channel anyway. It's NOT EASY for Americans to buy and send Bitcoin yet! Just after my radio interview the other day, I spent 40 minutes on the phone with a lady who called me from Toledo. She wanted me to talk her through the entire process of creating an account at MyBitcoin, then buying Bitcoin on BitcoinGateway... It was excruciating. This woman had never used copy & paste before. Apparently, she never did fully complete the purchase verification process. My point is: 1. Bitcoin is not ready for typical American users yet --- especially not millions of people all trying to use BitcoinGateway at once! Poor chaord will be pulling his hair out..... and probably taking his site & service off-line completely, as a result. 2. If we try not to be biased, we will see many other funding mechanisms that are probably much better suited for immediately use by average Americans, in USD, at this moment in time. Paxum? 3. Let's promote, propel, and support Wikileaks in every way. 4. Let's promote, propel, protect, and support our greatest tool of the 21st Century, Bitcoin, in every way. ....at the same time. Bitcoin is our secret weapon in this "war". It is our Big Gun. Let's save it, preserve it, protect it, strengthen it...... and when the time is right, it will change everything. If it gets too much bad publicity now... it's mainstream adoption could be delayed by DECADES. Seriously. While they're busy trying to figure out how to block Wikileaks DNS ... We are quietly getting all the world's most respected charities to accept Bitcoin. Then, all local barter clubs and local alternate currency groups, we convince to "join the Bitcoin electronic network"... Then, we get the world's most respected businesses to accept Bitcoin. All the while .... Bitcoin is getting stronger and stronger.... going more and more mainstream .... with every passing day. Under their radar. Right under their noses. In a way, it's using Bitcoin's obscurity to its best advantage... for this stage of its growth. The giant Redwood ..... with a tiny ax... and a chop chop chop chop every day... it comes falling down. |
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It would be cool. BTW can I use it in Europe?
I believe the answer to that is Yes.... based on what I read there. See https://www.paxum.comCreate an account. It takes 5 seconds. It will tell you. Paxum is not affiliated with a US bank. They have a Canadian mailing address. The MasterCard is issued by a bank in Belize called, http://www.choicebankltd.comJed, I'm ready for my MtGox MasterCard. |
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Wider distribution and use of bitcoin means wider distribution and use of freedom.
Now there's an illegal idea for ya. By the way, a side thought: if the "weed industry" were to suddenly embrace bitcoin... What would that do to the value of a bitcoin? |
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Ok. So what was the URL for the wiki page again for the, "How To Start your Own Bitcoin Pot Delivery Service"...?
I happen to know (yes, I have friends who know people), that in New York City at least... It's not about customers "trusting" the pot man. It's about the pot man trusting the customers. You cannot buy from him unless you are either (1) a long-standing known customer or (2) referred personally, and vouched for, by a long-standing customer. Even then, they are hesitant to take on new customers. After that, it's just a phone call.... Within 20 minutes, there's a man in your kitchen... like the Avon Lady... but without the makeup.
That's how it works here.
I really can't see how Bitcoin could improve their business model in any way tho. They have to deliver the product somehow anyway... so why not pick up the cash at the same time.
Being anonymous? No. Protecting their anonymity by using a drop-spot is not a realistic option for many reasons. First, it's Manhattan. There are no secret spots. Second, who the h*ll would want to go out into the cold and find their weed under a rock in central park...... when they could just have the pot man describing all the new varieties in their kitchen... no. It's not gonna happen. People are far too lazy. We New Yorkers expect everything delivered. Mail it? No way! When I could have it here within 10-30 minutes. Nope.
So, you see, Bitcoin offers no advantages to the way it's done now. The only thing it could do, is allow for an online store that sells randomly to any tom, dick, or harry who visits that page. And then, there's NO WAY they won't be investigated and shut down pronto!
Sending drugs to random addresses? Are you insane?! Why not just mail out sales brochures to the DEA's offices while you're at it!? That's the nuttiest idea I've EVER heard. I understand the 50/50 probability math.... But have the CONSEQUENCES of such an action ever even occurred to you!? It would make national headlines.... until you were locked up... and then the nation would cheer! The media would dub you "The Heroin Mailer". Likely, they would consider the mailing of drugs to random addresses to be a crime 10 times WORSE than simply selling it to paying customers.
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...and even illegal ideas float around...
So far... in the US, there are no "illegal ideas". It may be illegal to shout "Fire!" in a crowded theater, etc. But ideas, are still legal here. So far. And, although I don't smoke... Although pot is illegal... It is something that has been proven to be safer than many many legal substances. Thus, the majority of Americans think it should be legal. Also -- like it or not -- it does represent a SIZABLE economy... all its own. Just sayin'...  But, I do agree. We should NOT publicly promote these uses. ( They won't need our help anyway. ) I was just musing "aloud" about how someone in that business might make use of Bitcoin... (I'm still not that convinced that it would be better/easier than plain old cash, for most of their purposes.) |
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But if you send something tangible to the billing address, you give the real credit card owner a chance to let you know if he really wants the bitcoins or if someone compromised his card. Should cut down on the part of the problem presented by credit card thieves, no?
No. It's an idea on the right track.... But too little, too late. And you're mixing two different issues. The guy's already GOT the bitcoins. Unless you make him wait a week or eight.... to see if you hear anything back from the cardholder. And what if the cardholder just IGNORES your package. You're still not off the hook. The bank can just TAKE your money right back out of your merchant account... up to 6 months later!!! The sending "something tangible"... Forget that. A receipt or invoice is not "something tangible"... And besides, the only purpose for that is to avoid chargebacks. Fraud is NOT the same as a customer-initiated chargeback. Fraud is when someone uses a stolen credit card number.... not when the customer changes his mind.... or decides to say he never received "the goods". I think http://BitcoinGateway.com has pretty much solved both of these problems. He actually CALLS the issuing bank. Verifies that cardholder's phone number. Then CALLS the cardholder, and records the call. This prevents fraud. He actually spoke to the cardholder (unless the fraudster also commandeered the cardholder's phone line too!) He recorded the call, which is evedence that the customer ordered "the goods". |
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ⓑ25.50 or ฿25.50
subliminally... one of these looks like money... the other one looks like a copyright notice....
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Your recurring payment suggestion is too simplistic.
It should be able to do trials and up to 3 steps of billing. (Most sites don't need more than 3, we could make it unlimited).
Example: 4 BTC for the first 7 days, then 100 BTC every 30 days after that until canceled.
There are lots of sites that really need to offer trials.
That sounds good... but even PayPal can't do that. Let's at least get something up and working now. I suppose additional parameters could be added as needed. Like.... bitcoin:15kDhRAcpgsugmh6mQsTcCHdvbsuYncEEV?btc=4?=freq=daily?=endson=7?btc2=100?=freq2=monthly?=endson2=never?label=Arvixe?account=punl-9482054-3402?message="new trial subscription"?=processingdonation=0.02 Obviously, we'd have to all agree on the format.... because the apps would have to build in functionality to handle such complex recurring transactions. That's functionality that (obviously) does not exist in the clients today. So those extra fields would simply be ignored in older clients that can't handle recurring payments. Or clients that can only handle one level of recurring payment schedule. I've never seen any mainstream app that can handle more than one recurring payment schedule as a single entry. For example, PayPal can't do that. Online bank bill-pay services can't do that. They only do: PAYEE, AMOUNT, and FREQUENCY. That's it! Not even an end date. So.... we have to start somewhere. Let's get the foundation built. We can worry about the flooring and drapery choices a bit later. I love that satoshi mentioned the idea of making this URI into a QR Code way back in July or something... because I had the same idea. ALL the new phones apps scan a QR Code, that the QR Code displayed at a store's cash register could contain all the specific details about THAT transaction.... maybe even a unique Bitcoin address just for that transaction...? But for sure, an account number, invoice number, or some such number to automatically correlate your payment to your cash register sale. Of course, online merchants' sites could automatically generate a new UNIQUE uri just for THAT SPECIFIC customer invoice also... all automated. |
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Has this been decided? bitcoin: It's as simple as that. Everything after the colon is negotiable.....? It seems obvious to me that the components are: - recipient bitcoin address (mandatory)
- bitcoin amount (optional)
- recurring - frequency (optional)
- recurring - ends-on [never/until] (optional)
- recipient addressbook label (optional)
- message (optional)
On the Bitcoin Client app (or web-based app)... all these fields should be set as the DEFAULT data... but still editable. First, the App asks for a password... Then, presents the Send Money windows with all these values inserted as default values.... Then, clicking Send should bring up an "Are You Sure?" dialog whenever the last transaction recipient's address is the SAME as the current transaction recipient's address (even if the last transaction was 3 weeks ago). Unauthorized transactions, Accidental transactions, and Duplicate transactions must all be prevented by the app (at least asking for a password, and popping up an "Are You Sure?" warning). Example... bitcoin:15kDhRAcpgsugmh6mQsTcCHdvbsuYncEEV?btc=25.50?=freq=monthly?=endson=never?label=Arvixe?message="We appreciate your business!" Why can't we simply start using this NOW. Chromium and Firefox are open source. Can't a browser plug-in handle adding the URI handling immediately. If we can get the standard adopted by every computer in the future, great, but Bitcoin merchants already are invested enough to want to use such a standard. And no one will be trying to click "Pay with Bitcoin" if they don't have a Bitcoin client installed (or a web-based hook plug-in installed). The button can say: "Pay with Bitcoin" with a tiny link next to it, "What's Bitcoin?" <--- to help those who don't know what bitcoin is Can't this be implemented TODAY.... without asking anyone's "permission"...? |
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Gavin and Mike... You've both already done lots of research and put lots of thought into each of the two methods. What more would it take to simply implement them? Is it simply a matter of agreeing on what it should look like, how it should function, etc... then create the standard... then submit it to...? What's the roadblock at this point -- with each of the methods, if there is one?
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As I said on that other thread...
Questions.
1. Why not have both? The market will decide which one people choose to use most. One might be used more at first, then later as browsers are updated, site owners might later switch to the other. But.... Are they mutually exclusive??
2. What's stopping us? Let's just implement them BOTH immediately. We obviously have the knowledge and expertise to get the job done. Let's just get the job done already.
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Questions.
1. Why not have both? The market will decide which one people choose to use most. One might be used more at first, then later as browsers are updated, site owners might later switch to the other. But.... Are they mutually exclusive??
2. What's stopping us? Let's just implement them BOTH immediately. We obviously have the knowledge and expertise to get the job done. Let's just get the job done already.
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It wasn't exactly frozen. It was restricted, and Wikileaks can't take donations directly via PayPal anymore. Hardly a problem, since several other organizations take donations to Wikileaks. No funds are confiscated in any country or bank, as far as public information goes anyway. None of the newspapers publishing the leaks in full have gotten their bank accounts frozen either. Their operation is perfectly legal in every country with free speech. This is nothing but a publicity stunt for PayPal, and it would be a better publicity stunt for the Bitcoin community to to the opposite. -1. I think you are overreacting. This is not true. When PayPal shuts down your account, they TAKE and KEEP all of the money in it. There is no refund. Never. Never. Their email tells you that "there is no process to appeal". PayPay is owned by eBay. ....and the "e" in eBay stands for "evil". Google "PayPay" it if you don't believe me. Also, leaking military secrets can be considered treason and is a very serious crime in most countries. Free Speech always has legal limits. |
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Yes, there are arguments for not pushing bitcoins as a solution for orgs such as wikileaks.
On the other hand, the same crowd that is attracted to sites such as wikileaks will be attracted to a distributed currency, it would also be a way to gain popularity, coders, crypto people auditing the protocol, and so on. That way, the project can grow.
Everything is a compromise...
Problem is... It would attract 9 world governments, along with their Intelligence Services (thier CIA's), trying to shut down Bitcoin.... for every one new crypto coder supporter. Let's achieve this result through POSITIVE publicity.... not NEGATIVE publicity. Do we want Bitcoin to be known forever in slang as, "Wilileaks Money"? No. Let's get Whole Foods, and McDonalds, and Startbucks, and Cocacola vending machines.... to accept Bitcoin. In fact, the BEST POSITIVE publicity is not even businesses.... It is famous charities! Red Cross, UNICEF, United Way, etc. Would you rather Bitcoin be known as "wikileaks money".... or "the money large charites use for donations"....? Think of all these ideas from a PR perspective. Bitcoin needs SUPPORTERS. It needs to make no enemies.... not yet. It's too weak to take on enemies right now. |
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By the way, the greatest benefit Bitcoin could give to Wikileaks... MIGHT be in them using Bitcoin PRIVATELY.... not PUBLICLY.
They could ( / can / will / are / ? ) use Bitcoin to transmit their funds easily across all borders, exchange them into all currencies as needed, and even Back Them Up electronically (as long as their wallet.dat file is encrypted too). There's no need for them to advertise publicly that they are using Bitcoin.... for them to benefit from all the advantages of using Bitcoin privately/secretly/anonymously.
It would be Much Better for Everyone Involved if they do NOT express their support for Bitcoin publicly... and they just go about using it very privately. (And who's to say that they aren't already...?)
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