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401  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: The Great Bitcoin Secret Revealed on: March 22, 2022, 06:02:32 PM
So, why are you here? Why don't you live your life with this debt-based money you love using of, and leave those "clumsy" Bitcoiners to live their own lives with their "fraudulent money" as you're saying?

You appear once in a while, and want to convince us all that you're right. You repeat the same bullshit, "Bitcoin doesn't exist", "Satoshi lies you" etc., to achieve what exactly? This behavior shows me you're either ill-intentioned or simply problematic. Perhaps both.

I've repeatedly told you that Bitcoin doesn't have a tangible representation and only exists units-wise. People can imagine it exists, that it's some sort digital metal, that it's a public ledger, it's a matter of creativity beyond a certain level.
You're repeatedly told me things that have no basis in reality. I debunked literally every statement that you made. And you just keep repeating them. Now you're questioning my motivation. What's next? You want to know how old I am? Or what I like to eat?

My point is what I have wrote: if you say that 5 digital(intangible) books or movies exist, you are not supposed to show number "5". But books and movies.

In the same way, if you say that a specific number of digital (intangible) bitcois exists, you're not supposed to show number, but digital products. However, all you can show is a number. Essentially, you are proving that bitcoin doesn't exist.
Do you even read my replies?

Here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5389815.msg59606677#msg59606677
I explained that there are two numbers in bitcoin. One is the balance, sure that's just a number. But we also have private and public keys (which are numbers) that prove the ownership.

Nobody claims that showing the first number (balance) proves ownership. It's the 'second number', the cryptographic keys.

Since you claim these are easy to generate, I challenge you to just 'come up with' or 'generate' a number (key) that grants you 1BTC.

You also didn't reply to my challenge of downloading the blockchain and thus owning all the coins (which you laughingly claimed possible before). Why?
Everyone that has installed the wallet app has keys an numbers attached. Everyone that has downloaded blockchain can see numbers and addresses. Anyone that would pay $1.2 trillion today to have the sum of all the numbers in the Satoshi's system attached to their address, would have a number attached, the same as any person that holds an address in the system. It's just that the number would be different. But nobody would own something. A guy with 18,000,000 attached to his address, and a guy with 0.00000001 attached, can both show only keys and math symbols. Nothing else. There's no difference between them. So, what is your point? On what did the first guy spend 1.2 trillion dollars?
402  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: The Great Bitcoin Secret Revealed on: March 22, 2022, 05:04:39 PM
And I gave you an example that proves that your arguments are flawed.
I ask you again, does DNS exist? Can you show it to me?
You couldn't have proved that my arguments are flawed because I made no arguments. I was simply stating facts. Saying that the Sun is bigger than the Moon is not an argument. Saying that bitcoin doesn't exist in Satoshi's system is not an argument. It's a statement of fact. I am simply observing the system. When people say that they bought bitcoin, all I can see is the change of a number next to their address. So, I observe a couple of math symbols, and not some revolutionary digital product that is capable of making people free. Then, I check the network. And I see nodes that are keeping the numbers and addresses stored in a database. Again, no revolutionary digital product there. Than I check the wallet app. I see only keys that everyone got for free. And numbers attached to address. And letters B, T, and C. But again, I see no revolutionary digital product there. So, I have empirically confirmed that no revolutionary digital product exists in the Satoshi's system. Not a single bitcoin holder has ever demonstrated to own such a product when joining the system. What we all observe is a simple system that attaches numbers to addresses and keeps that stored in a distributed database. People then simply read that numbers via wallet applications. That's literally everything. A revolutionary digital product, a new form of money, an advanced electronic cash, ... exist only in human imagination.  
Now you say over 100 million people around the world are stupid? Wow, talk about arrogance!
I would never say that Elon Musk is stupid. Nor anyone here. You are just ignorant or driven by greed, so you shut down your brains when discussing bitcoin issues.
In fact, you can't really show a digital book. Unfortunately, humans do not have the ability to see (or perceive) digital electrical impulses stored and transmitted through electronic circuits. All you can do is show a visual (or audial) representation of digital data, whether it be a digital book, picture, audio recording, or any other data type, including bitcoin.
I can prove that a digital book exists by reading text or watching pictures after opening a file. In the same way you can prove that a number is attached to your address when opening your wallet. But you cannot prove that there's a digital product called bitcoin.
403  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: The Great Bitcoin Secret Revealed on: March 22, 2022, 02:55:42 PM
How much I pay for the DNS system isn't relevant to the discussion. Do you think it's free?

Let's get back on topic. Do you now deny the existence of Bitcoin or do you imply that it is too expensive?
I deny nothing. I am simply stating the fact that Bitcoin doesn't exist.
And I am saying that it is stupid to pay money just because a number will be attached to your name. Paying for communication via internet is reasonable. That's why we pay our internet providers. Paying for swapping numbers between addresses is not reasonable. So, it's pretty simple.
Yes, bitcoin is intangible. Everything is digital. What's your point?
Has anyone here ever claimed otherwise? But just because you can't touch it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Can you comprehend something so simple? Wink

My point is what I have wrote: if you say that 5 digital(intangible) books or movies exist, you are not supposed to show number "5". But books and movies.

In the same way, if you say that a specific number of digital (intangible) bitcois exists, you're not supposed to show number, but digital products. However, all you can show is a number. Essentially, you are proving that bitcoin doesn't exist.
404  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: The Great Bitcoin Secret Revealed on: March 22, 2022, 02:27:49 PM
It's hard for you to understand since you're so engrained in the traditional banking system and assume Bitcoin works the same way.
What they can't comprehend is that Bitcoin is a ledger of transactions, which shows who owns what. They're so obsessed that ledgers must show things that exist, that we'll probably never change their minds.

I'm still waiting an answer to this:
But, even if you don't believe us, even though we should have convinced you by now, what about the rest of the world? There are unbelievably smarter people than me and you who are astonished by the way it works and fight tooth and nail to accomplish usage in a global scale. Doesn't it seem extravagant to you to say that every single one of the millions of Bitcoin users is a psycho?
Unless you think you're the smartest.
WOW, really? Bitcoin is a ledger of transactions? Nice. Now everyone can just download the ledger and have bitcoins. For free. Hahaha. I am really having fun. It's so amusing to read your rationalizations that try to justify Satoshi's sacred text. Keep up the good work.
405  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: The Great Bitcoin Secret Revealed on: March 22, 2022, 02:06:46 PM
So, how much do you pay for using DNS protocols? And how much do you pay for attaching the number "10" to your crypto address in Satoshi's system? Do you now understand the true meaning of the phrase: "Your level of your ignorance is astounding."?

Oh, now it's not the matter of existence, is it? You told me that Bitcoin doesn't exist because you can't show it to someone. We told you that communication protocols like DNS also can't be shown to someone but that doesn't mean they don't exist.

Using of DNS protocol is free. But guess what - using of Bitcoin is also free. You have to pay if you want to own Bitcoin, but you don't have to pay to use it.
Yes, bitcoin doesn't exist. Numbers do, if you attach them to someone's name. So, you cannot show a digital asset called bitcoin. You can show numbers. If you say that 5 digital books or movies exist you are not supposed to show number 5. But books and movies. Can you comprehend something so simple?
406  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: The Great Bitcoin Secret Revealed on: March 22, 2022, 01:55:13 PM
Internet is used by nodes to store fake numbers. Without the internet there wouldn't be bitcoin fraud.

I didn't ask you to tell me what is Internet compared to Bitcoin. I asked you to tell me how can you prove that Internet exists? If you can accept the fact that Internet is used for two computers to communicate, then Bitcoin's proof of existence is the fact that it is used to trade.
Internet is computers and communication protocols. Those exist. Bitcoin is not "used" given it doesn't exist. Numbers are attached to address by Satoshi's system. Attaching numbers is a proof that numbers are attached. Attaching letters is proof that letters are attached. Attaching a picture to a email message is proof that a picture is attached. No bitcoins magically emerge by attaching one thing to another. You believe in some sort of alchemy. Try to use your brains for a second instead of repeating the same nonsense over and over again.

Your level of your ignorance is astounding.

The Internet exists. Okay, I agree. But does the DNS protocol exist? It is also just a collection of numbers attached to addresses by your definition. Denying the use of Bitcoin is the same as denying the use of DNS. Could you please show me the DNS? No? You can't see it, hear it, or touch it, yet it exists and billions of people use it every day.

So, how much do you pay for using DNS protocols? And how much do you pay for attaching the number "10" to your crypto address in Satoshi's system? Do you now understand the true meaning of the phrase: "Your level of your ignorance is astounding."?
You are not storing or moving value, but numbers. A number is a concept on quantity of things. A thing is value, not a number. If there's a number "10", next to your name or address, this is suggesting that there are 10 pieces of a thing in your possession. But if the thing is not in your possession, the number is fake. And that's exactly the case with bitcoin. There's no such thing as bitcoin in the possession of an address holder which has a specific number attached to their address. So, blockchain is just a giant collection of fake numbers. And bitcoin cannot be value by definition, given it doesn't exist.
This is where you're wrong: in Bitcoin there are two 'numbers': (1) the number telling how many coins you own, which is like the number of USD on your bank account, sure that's just a number. But you have number (2) which is a cryptographic key that grants you ownership rights to a certain amount of Bitcoin. This second number would be the 'ounce of gold' sitting in your safe, for instance, while the first one is the valuation that someone gives it.

As someone said before, if Bitcoin is just numbers and it's so easy to generate them, why don't you generate such a number (private key) and sell it for hundreds of thousands of dollars?

It's not possible because a randomly generated number has no value; only those which have Bitcoin sent to them, originating from a coinbase transaction which you can only do by expending large amounts of energy using mining hardware that costs large amounts of $ to buy and install.

Saying or writing down that you own 5 ounces of gold, means you're able to show an actual metal in your possession. Otherwise you're lying. Whan you say that you own 5 bitcoins, or this is written down in your wallet, but you're not able to show a digital product in the quantity of 5, that means you're lying and that the wallet has fake numbers.
It's hard for you to understand since you're so engrained in the traditional banking system and assume Bitcoin works the same way. While your bank account just tells you the number of something you own, the Bitcoin blockchain doesn't. The 'thing you own' is on the blockchain; hence it doesn't and can't 'point to something in your possession'.
When I go to a web site or install the wallet app to get a cryptographic key, and "0" is attached to my address, suggesting I own 0 coins, how that differs from a guy that has 1,000,000 attached? We both have zero property to show. There's no difference in ownership between us. If you were to ask that guy to prove that he actually owns million coins he wouldn't be able to show something that I am not able to show. We both have numbers attached, but own no bitcoins. No coins. No money. No property. Nothing. It's like if a system would write down that I have 0 Porsches and that guy have 10 Porsches. None of us would be able to show Porsches. So, one can attach whatever number to whatever name. That literally means nothing.

A randomly generated number is still a number. It's not a cat. A randomly generated Ferrari would still be a Ferrari. It doesn't matter how you generate something. If I work 10 hours a day for a year and get the same amount of money as someone who win a lottery that doesn't mean my money is more valuable.

407  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: The Great Bitcoin Secret Revealed on: March 22, 2022, 12:59:00 PM
People don't agree that the ladger is satisfactory
Guess what: You don't get to choose what others agree upon. I personally find it very useful, if others find it so. Transferring value across the borders, with no one's permission. No one can alter past transactions of the ledger, no matter the good excuse. The costs to transact are nearly zero. It's more private. It's faster.

Even if those units don't represent anything, I don't have a problem as long as there are others who're also willing to accept it same like I do. What the hell is so difficult to grasp about that?
Well, I don't have a problem if you and others agree that you are a bird and able to fly. I am simply debunking your nonsense. You are not a bird. You are not able to fly. You are not transferring value. There's no bitcoin. Do we now understand each other?
408  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: The Great Bitcoin Secret Revealed on: March 22, 2022, 12:45:30 PM
Internet is used by nodes to store fake numbers. Without the internet there wouldn't be bitcoin fraud.

I didn't ask you to tell me what is Internet compared to Bitcoin. I asked you to tell me how can you prove that Internet exists? If you can accept the fact that Internet is used for two computers to communicate, then Bitcoin's proof of existence is the fact that it is used to trade.
Internet is computers and communication protocols. Those exist. Bitcoin is not "used" given it doesn't exist. Numbers are attached to address by Satoshi's system. Attaching numbers is a proof that numbers are attached. Attaching letters is proof that letters are attached. Attaching a picture to a email message is proof that a picture is attached. No bitcoins magically emerge by attaching one thing to another. You believe in some sort of alchemy. Try to use your brains for a second instead of repeating the same nonsense over and over again.
409  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: The Great Bitcoin Secret Revealed on: March 22, 2022, 12:34:59 PM
People use a medium of exchange that is not credit all the time. However, this medium of exchange exists. That's the whole point. A thing must exist to be able to be exchanged. Bitcoin doesn't exist so there's nothing to exchange.
And I repeat;
As long as they agree that the ledger is satisfactory, they can use that one to deal with, even if the ledger represents things that don't exist tangibly and only have a unit-representation.
What's your problem if people choose to do that?
You're again talking nonsense. People don't agree that the ladger is satisfactory, whatever that means, but to have numbers stored to their address. And they do that because they falsely believe these numbers quantify a digital asset called bitcoin. They believe so, because thay accepted Satoshi's paper at face value. Or because they fall for false narrative and misleading information spread throughout social media.
410  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: The Great Bitcoin Secret Revealed on: March 22, 2022, 12:27:00 PM
This is literally crazy. How do you know that bitcoin is "a thing" and that it is "new" if you're unable to prove its existence? Where're 5 things that the person bought after number 5 was attached to their address? What is that mega expensive product that the person paid $40.000 a piece? All you do is repeating "Bitcoin is this", Bitcoin is that" like a broken record, without proving anything.

You didn't answer me how is Internet different than Bitcoin? How can you prove existence of the Internet? And don't say that we are talking about Bitcoin and not Internet. I want to hear from you how do you prove that Internet is a thing. Maybe that will give me an idea how to prove that Bitcoin is a thing.
Internet is used by nodes to store fake numbers. Without the internet there wouldn't be bitcoin fraud.
411  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: The Great Bitcoin Secret Revealed on: March 22, 2022, 11:44:04 AM
We see things differently, therefore, you'll have to answer me the following, otherwise you're wasting your time in this forum: Can people use a medium of exchange that is not credit? 'Cause if they can settle transactions without debt, there's no problem on using a currency that doesn't represent anything at all, such as Bitcoin. (Or the banknotes, before they create debt)

As long as they agree that the ledger is satisfactory, they can use that one to deal with, even if the ledger represents things that don't exist tangibly and only have a unit-representation.
We don't see things differently. You are imagining things that don't exist in reality. You create fictions because you lack basic knowledge of economy and finance.

People use a medium of exchange that is not credit all the time. However, this medium of exchange exists. That's the whole point. A thing must exist to be able to be exchanged. Bitcoin doesn't exist so there's nothing to exchange. People in bitcoin community blindly believe Satoshi like he is some kind of God. He wrote in his paper that his system creates coins and the community accepted that without a question. But all that his system does is attaching numbers to addresses. Then the wallet is lying that this number is quantifying "BTC" - a digital thing called Bitcoin. But this thing is non-existent. A guy with "0" attached to his address is not able to show a digital thing in his possession, the same as a guy that has 1,000 attached to his address. The last guy simply creates fictions in his imagination and believes that he owns a valuable digital product, without being able to show it. It's like a mythology. Just like people believed Zeus exists without being able to show it, bitcoin community believes bitcoin exists without being able to show it. They are blind believes in the sacred text that Satoshi wrote. It is literally unbelievable that people believe blindly an anonymous guy ever when they see with their own eyes that no digital product exist in their possession.  
412  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: The Great Bitcoin Secret Revealed on: March 22, 2022, 10:44:48 AM
The same is with everything else. A company produces cars and then they put numbers in accounting books to express quantity of cars.
No, it's not and that's where you're wrong. When I have a signed contract that says I own 10 cars, those represent something that exists. When my bank account says that I own $100 that cash supposedly exist. The hundred dollar bill ALONE does not represent something that exists. It's not debt UNTIL it's loaned. That's same for everything; they don't create debt until they're loaned.

The central bank issues banknotes that don't represent ANYTHING at first.
It is not nice when you project your own ignorance and a lack of knowledge on others. Every paper bill handed to individuals and companies came from deposit accounts. Loans are granted on deposit accounts, and then withdrawn as cash. Numbers that represented debt on deposit accounts, in the same amount represent that debt on paper. If 1000 is withdrawn those same numbers are now on paper bills. Literally every bill, except of course counterfeit ones, represent debt that was created by issuing loans. When borrowers are paying back loans, paper bills are deposited, and from their deposit accounts are transferred for loan liquidation. In that way debt is settled. Paper bills that the central banks took out of circulation or just printed represent of course nothing. But those are not in the hands of individuals and companies. So I don't know what was the point of your last sentence. How can a central bank grant loans to commercial banks in paper bills without first printing bills? You have some bizarre way of looking at things.
413  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: The Great Bitcoin Secret Revealed on: March 22, 2022, 10:00:10 AM
Commodity is something that exists. Be it digital or not. Digital things are existing things. Books, documents, sounds, pictures...are digital. Applications are digital. Non of them can you touch. But they exist. Saying bitcoin is a digital commodity is as nonsensical as saying Zeus is a digital commodity. You can say whatever you want for a thing whose existence you are not able to prove. You can write down in a database that you own 5 shares in Zeus. If you are not able to show Zeus, that what you've written down is nonsense. That's what Satoshi's software is doing. Writing down nonsense. Fake numbers. Quantities of a thing that no one is able to show. You can as well say that bitcoin is an ice cream. Or a car. Or a diamond. It's all equally stupid as saying that bitcoin is a digital commodity.

It's pointless to argue with you when you don't want to accept the premise that Bitcoin is a completely new thing and that you can't compare it to anything. Is Internet real? Internet doesn't cost anything and it can't be bought, but you must agree that it's a real thing and yet, you can't prove it's existence.

People who still have a hard time wrapping around their brains around the fact that bitcoin is a commodity are people that still thinks that they have to touch everything physically because they still can't believe that the digital age has been here for a long time and they still stick to the old values that might or might not be applicable anymore. Also, stocks are somewhat a digital commodity so I don't get why they can't believe bitcoin is one when bitcoin isn't even the first one.

True, but stocks are a representation of something. Bitcoin is not a representation of something. It's Bitcoin.
This is literally crazy. How do you know that bitcoin is "a thing" and that it is "new" if you're unable to prove its existence? Where're 5 things that the person bought after number 5 was attached to their address? What is that mega expensive product that the person paid $40.000 a piece? All you do is repeating "Bitcoin is this", Bitcoin is that" like a broken record, without proving anything.
414  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: The Great Bitcoin Secret Revealed on: March 22, 2022, 09:00:43 AM
You're repeating nonsense that I already debunked. Gold is a thing that exists. Bitcoin doesn't. Saying or writing down that you own 5 ounces of gold, means you're able to show an actual metal in your possession. Otherwise you're lying. Whan you say that you own 5 bitcoins, or this is written down in your wallet, but you're not able to show a digital product in the quantity of 5,  them means you're lying and that the wallet has fake numbers.

Now you are repeating nonsense... Bitcoin is a digital commodity and digital commodities doesn't exist in a physical world. I guess you have a problem understanding that not everything has to be physical in order for it to be real. Here is a definition of a new type of commodity - crypto commodity. But I'm sure you will say one more time that it's not a real commodity because you can't touch it.
Commodity is something that exists. Be it digital or not. Digital things are existing things. Books, documents, sounds, pictures...are digital. Applications are digital. Non of them can you touch. But they exist. Saying bitcoin is a digital commodity is as nonsensical as saying Zeus is a digital commodity. You can say whatever you want for a thing whose existence you are not able to prove. You can write down in a database that you own 5 shares in Zeus. If you are not able to show Zeus, that what you've written down is nonsense. That's what Satoshi's software is doing. Writing down nonsense. Fake numbers. Quantities of a thing that no one is able to show. You can as well say that bitcoin is an ice cream. Or a car. Or a diamond. It's all equally stupid as saying that bitcoin is a digital commodity.
415  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: The Great Bitcoin Secret Revealed on: March 22, 2022, 08:26:15 AM
You are not storing or moving value, but numbers. A number is a concept on quantity of things. A thing is value, not a number. If there's a number "10", next to your name or address, this is suggesting that there are 10 pieces of a thing in your possession. But if the thing is not in your possession, the number is fake. And that's exactly the case with bitcoin. There's no such thing as bitcoin in the possession of an address holder which has a specific number attached to their address. So, blockchain is just a giant collection of fake numbers. And bitcoin cannot be value by definition, given it doesn't exist.
I will put it in your words:
You talk nonsense and stupidity.

When transferring Bitcoin, people are not transferring numbers but bitcoins. Why is that so hard for you to understand? Bitcoin doesn't represent anything just like gold doesn't represent anything - they both have value for what they are - Bitcoin and gold. That is the thing you must learn to understand - Bitcoin doesn't represent anything and it's value doesn't come from it representing some other asset. It's value comes from it being Bitcoin! Just like value of gold bar comes from it being a gold bar. Just like value of water comes from it being water.
You're repeating nonsense that I already debunked. Gold is a thing that exists. Bitcoin doesn't. Saying or writing down that you own 5 ounces of gold, means you're able to show an actual metal in your possession. Otherwise you're lying. Whan you say that you own 5 bitcoins, or this is written down in your wallet, but you're not able to show a digital product in the quantity of 5, that means you're lying and that the wallet has fake numbers.
One of the key inventions of Satoshi Nakamoto was digital scarcity. This was obtained by solving the double spending problem. You can read about it here: https://komodoplatform.com/en/academy/double-spending-problem/

That's what makes sending Bitcoin different to sending an SMS message.
Scarcity is a concept of existing things. For something to be scarce it must exist. Bitcoin doesn't exist so it cannot be scarce.
416  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: The Great Bitcoin Secret Revealed on: March 22, 2022, 06:36:44 AM
But you are looking at Bitcoin in the wrong way. Bitcoin is not a representation of something physical. It is Bitcoin. Just like an ounce of gold is an ounce of gold, one Bitcoin is one Bitcoin. There is nothing behind an ounce of gold because it's just an once of gold. It's the same with Bitcoin.

And Bitcoin is not just a number in a database.
This is the absolutely beautiful and stunning, for many people inconceivable (as we see here) thing about Bitcoin. The first time ever, we have a way to digitally store and move real value and not just an 'IOU', a reference pointing to some real value.

That's why the often asked question 'what backs Bitcoin' is so wrong, too. It's very much engrained in most people's way of thought since that's the only thing they've ever known - paper money, totally understandable. But just like you wouldn't ask 'what backs gold' or 'what backs your house', asking about Bitcoin's backing is pointless.

Bitcoin is value, it doesn't represent value. Bitcoins very much do exist, just not the way you're used to. As simple as that.
You are not storing or moving value, but numbers. A number is a concept on quantity of things. A thing is value, not a number. If there's a number "10", next to your name or address, this is suggesting that there are 10 pieces of a thing in your possession. But if the thing is not in your possession, the number is fake. And that's exactly the case with bitcoin. There's no such thing as bitcoin in the possession of an address holder which has a specific number attached to their address. So, blockchain is just a giant collection of fake numbers. And bitcoin cannot be value by definition, given it doesn't exist.
417  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: The Great Bitcoin Secret Revealed on: March 22, 2022, 04:38:38 AM
I proved that the debt is an existing thing and that the numbers that quantity that thing are therefore genuine.
No you didn't, you only said that it's a liability, which is true. Debt, from credit cards to government bonds, is a liability, and a liability can be described as:
the responsibility of a person, business, or organization to pay or give up something of value
You pay up debt (which is the liability) with either assets or liabilities (which creates even more debt). At some point, assets will have to be transacted as these are the promised gains. For example, base money (cash).

Cash is NOT a liability. It's considered asset. Therefore, cash, ALONE, does NOT represent debt. Once someone starts loaning this cash, debt will be created. Agreed so far?
You talk nonsense and stupidity.  Cash is paper with numbers and these are put in circulation with loans. Loan is debt. Cash prove the existence of debt. No debt no cash. First the debt is created and only then numbers are used to quantity it. The same is with deposit accounts. Positive numbers on deposit accounts mean debt was created. Numbers are the consequence of debt. No debt no numbers.

The same is with everything else. A company produces cars and then they put numbers in accounting books to express quantity of cars. No cars no numbers.

Debt and cars are things that exist. Numbers are means to inform about the quantity of those EXISTING things.

Numbers are also attached to bitcoin addresses. But there's no thing which is quantified with them. This is called fake numbers. It's like invoice that lists the products or services that were never sold to a costumer. Bitcoin wallet has quantities of a product that was never sold to a wallet holder. That's a fraud. And you are one of the online promotors of that fraud. You are constantly spreading misinformation that people are buying bitcoin but such digital product was never sold to people.
418  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: The Great Bitcoin Secret Revealed on: March 21, 2022, 05:13:20 PM
Debt is the liability evidenced with loan contracts and accounting books in the banking system.
Exactly, it's a liability. The asset which is promised to be paid is nothing but fiat currency. Fiat currency is nothing more than "numbers" whose power is forcefully indicated by the government. When I own $100, I only own the papers that say so.

You fail, miserably, to understand that the same happens with Bitcoin, but there's no authority that enforces its usage.
The level of your ignorance is stunning. I just proved to you the existence of debt. I proved that the debt is an existing thing and that the numbers that quantity that thing are therefore genuine.

And your response is: "bitcoin the same". Hahaha. In a rational discussion, what you are supposed to do, is to show a thing called bitcoin. Only in that way you can prove that the numbers attached to the addresses are genuine. You are not supposed to make nonsensical claims of equivalence between an existing thing and a thing whose existence you must demonstrate.

So, can you demonstrate the existence of bitcoin? Can you show where's that revolutionary digital commodity? No, you can't. You already demonstrated that you can't. All you can do is talk nonsense and play semantics.
419  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: The Great Bitcoin Secret Revealed on: March 21, 2022, 04:11:45 PM
Buddy, show me debt if you say it exists.
Debt is the liability evidenced with loan contracts and accounting books in the banking system. Go talk to a person that was granted a loan to show you the contact and you will see the evidence of debt. Check the accounting books of the banks and you will see the evidence of debt. Go to a bank to see how loans are paid and how the debt is settled in the accounting books. It's a process that happens every day. Debt management is practically all that the banks are doing.
420  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: The Great Bitcoin Secret Revealed on: March 21, 2022, 03:46:32 PM
Debt in the banking system is the thing that exists.
Show me debt, and I'll send you a pic with my bitcoins.

But, even if you don't believe us, even though we should have convinced you by now, what about the rest of the world? There are unbelievably smarter people than me and you who are astonished by the way it works and fight tooth and nail to accomplish usage in a global scale. Doesn't it seem extravagant to you to say that every single one of the millions of Bitcoin users is a psycho?
The whole banking system exists to manage loans. Loans are debt.  Every loan granted is evidence of debt. Every loan repayment is evidence of debt settlement. Numbers on bank accounts or banknotes just quantity the shares in that debt. What you can show me is a pic of fake number attached to your address. Nothing else.
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