Thanks, just looking over the white paper & think you may want to add this as well. It might help people see how the coins will be distributed, not everyone will read the white paper & know what it means. Make the OP understandable to investors, not everyone in this forum has the knowledge that others do. Miners/Techs & early BTC adopters will have no problem with the info you have so far, but think if you were brand new to crypto & want to invest..
Absolutely! I have been making some edits to the white paper, and will update it today more than likely with those additions. Thank you for your valuable feedback! Chris |
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Please add this to the OP, might help people understand a little more about the PoW/PoA & how it will work.
Added as an addendum! Chris |
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You can check out Shannon Code speaking at the Cryptolina meeting about his start-up BitStrap, by clicking on the ninja:  Chris |
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looks promising
how to get coin? is there any free giveaways ?
For launch, we only plan on selling the coins. We have 30% reserved for things like bounties, future giveaways, etc... 1 Million will be available through cryptoshoppers, and Lazycoins exchange will get a temporary exclusive window of sale. Chris |
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I didn't ask the proof from you. I posted under GreatOrchid's post.
The "qualified" topic was interesting. It is worth to mention that, one of the famous feminism leaders in my country has a man hairstyle, dresses like a man, and more importantly she speaks exactly like a man. Sometimes people ask for equal job positions for men and women, but maybe men are more suitable for a job, and women for another job.
Ah, makes sense now! Anyways, on the subject of "suitableness for a job", I will agree that certain personality types fit some job requirements better, but these personality traits are NOT restricted to gender. I have played football/hockey, and wrestled against/with females, so I am not sure that "gender" necessarily should be a limiting factor or requisite. In some cases a "less empathic" and more "aggressive" approach which might be identified with a "male" approach could be blamed for creating more problems than it solves. So, I don't know if looking at things along gender lines can ever accurately describe the nuances that come from "personality". There may be general averages that we can look at, but I have heard many people divided on Margaret Thatcher with some claiming her to have been the absolute best, and some claiming absolute worst. I hardly believe any of her leadership faults or strengths had to do with her gender personally.
Another +1 for ProzCoin. By the way, in Coin Proz Oy, the term Oy stands for Ltd, right?
That is correct! Chris |
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Chris, I think we have some kind of "mind connection" lol I will take a look at your articles soon. Btw, I like to listen to one of your musics to know how you think  (I read about it at the end of the article). Which one do you recommend?  https://soundcloud.com/tabali-tigi/aliveThat is a good introduction I believe  they dont have any money , they need investers there is no women on the team life is entirely dependant on money ,meaning we do nuthin if no investers money ,we dont have any money were just kids wanna be facebook coin crap im gonna get 100 million block from u lol Do you have any proof for your claim about the money? You know that there isn't any woman in a lot of founder teams of computer related companies. Let's take Google, can you show me what the problem is? Considering everything has transaction receipts, absolutely! Coin Proz was registered as a business(Ltd) in May of this year in Espoo, Finland by the CEO: http://www.kauppalehti.fi/yritykset/yritys/coin+proz+oy/26241144I have talked considerably with my significant other about the issue of women leaders in any field, and as a female getting her Ph.D. in art history, she sees mostly women getting art history degrees, and mostly males teaching. She feels that most of the time women will not feel "qualified" for a position and not apply, where as a man will apply for a job even if he feels he is not qualified. She also feels that when women get into positions of power, they must replicate male behavior, so essentially they must "act like a man" in order to hold any authoritative position, and then this causes people to call the woman "unpleasant". There are many possible factors behind why there aren't a lot of females in authoritative positions within tech companies, but that number is changing, and hopefully it will change even faster as things progress. Chris |
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Chris, I think we have some kind of "mind connection" lol I will take a look at your articles soon. Btw, I like to listen to one of your musics to know how you think (I read about it at the end of the article). Which one do you recommend? That is a good introduction I believe they dont have any money , they need investers there is no women on the team life is entirely dependant on money ,meaning we do nuthin if no investers money ,we dont have any money were just kids wanna be facebook coin crap im gonna get 100 million block from u lol In fact everyone involved has other occupations, and we are all in this for innovation. There has been over 10K and 6 months put into this project by the founders of the team, so as far as "no investors", well, that is not true. We have seen the reality of the limitations of 10K when it comes to software development in a rapidly evolving frontier. As far as "women" on the team, we have had a woman UI designer on the team at one point, but she had to leave for her old job. Chris |
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But will there be a proof? Meaning, will we be able to do something like pull some signed archive of the posts themselves and allocations associated to them and re-run the math to verify the ledger? Or do we have to trust that server or servers' claim of history even if the referenced posts disappear, etc? Is there something that (in a way that will remain perpetually verifiable) connects the tx records on the chain back to some record of the actual contributions (forum post or whatnot) that were made? Same question! Will this pool, itself, operate in a p2pool fashion "on chain" or are you asking us to trust your particular centralized pool to account fairly/correctly and, most importantly, without compromise? If you can do this without being just another "coin married to a multi-pool" setup you would be on to something huge, here. This will only work well if that direction is the direction that those communities go in. It will work particularly well if that relationship is systematically baked in, step by step. You need to make sure you are being involved in the right things. A plan of two centralized servers for your coin distribution accounting is not the right stuff, so I'm really hoping you will tell me that is not totally the plan! Keep in mind that I have no problem with the notion of entrusting some group of people involved to judge participation fairly, presuming they can be held to account to some subjectively acceptable degree. My concern is about purely systematic implementation detail. I worry that such a "balance" can not exist unless very explicitly enforced within those details. I worry even more that assuming perpetual sanity of any given centralized server(s) on which that balance depends might inherently make such a system flawed to the point of some inevitable failure. Also, an aside. It is one that will likely be fully expected from any reader who knows my posts: As a consequence, you are also directly creating incentive for those scam artists, fakers, and particularly bots to more efficiently (and more cleverly/subtly, under your model) "participate" in their way(s). While I have hopes that initiatives along these lines will inevitably lead to great strides being made in areas of AI, and that in short order we will be sharing our discourse on these forums with the machines actually operating the forums, some care must be taken. When you combine these three behaviors in a single agent within your system (A scam artist faker using bots) and at the same time give the world incentive to make more capable chatter bots on forums, you arguably might be inadvertently doing an awesomely great but also simultaneously downright "dangerous" sort of thing. Persona management, social false flagging, cognitive infiltration, group-think takeover. If you think these practices aren't rapidly advancing you must not be watching this forum, or your "competition" coins, at all, hehe. I wish you nothing but luck, and look forward to seeing the release of your systems. I truly hope that they don't implode under the load of their own success. I can address all of your concerns: As far as being able to check the public activity against the math on a public ledger, ABSOLUTELY! Publishing the PoA white paper as an evolving document will give anyone who wishes to look an idea at the base equations that we are starting from, and once the individual classes have their own rules, the rule sets will be made public as well. One of the things we had to do with the main website is build "classes" of access so some individuals will be able to publish articles, some will be able to moderate forums, some will only be able to post, etc... Those classes had to be established on the back end of the Main Hub so that eventually the "moderators" will be from within the communities themselves, so a "Potcoin" moderator would have come from the Potcoin community whether by vote, or by PoA score within that community. To be clear, "we" as Coin Proz are trying to create a system in which the community can moderate itself, and EVERYONE who participates will get rewarded in ProzCoin. As far as "bots" go, I personally have a lot of experience with algorithms and reactive/interactive modeling, so the system will in fact force bots to be more refined, but in that case it is helping AI development, so Win/Win really. I REALLY don't believe chatbots to have any inherent danger, and had to research them during my graduate studies. Scammers always needed to be weeded out. Period. We will obviously not want to promote "scam bots", but in fact if "chat bots" become more advanced by proxy of us creating this system, I would in fact feel that was a success, to be quite honest Chris |
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Chris, I think we have some kind of "mind connection" lol I will take a look at your articles soon. Btw, I like to listen to one of your musics to know how you think (I read about it at the end of the article). Which one do you recommend? That is a good introduction I believe |
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Just a reminder, someone, anyone do some trading on bittrex otherwise it will be delisted!
They won't delist if you either contact them and let them know about the new developments, which should aid the coin soon. You can always ask Richie on the BITtrex IRC for an extension to let him know that the coin isn't dead, but just going through some new developments. They will not delist a coin as long as it has at least 0.7 btc of volume in a 7 day period. We've ensured that we have exceeded that, with 0.85 btc of volume just today. Also, we've had at least that much over the preceding 7 days as well so we're well ahead of the 0.7 minimum to stay listed. We've definitely got things covered from the minimum volume perspective, no worries there. oh damn dev is back, whats the plan here maan As far as I can tell, they are trying to pivot. They have been doing a pretty good job of it so far, and it looks like they will pull off something with the coin recycler. I am not sure whether it will be with Coin Proz or not, but regardless there is enough interest in the recycler that it WILL survive in one form or another. Chris |
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I'm optimistic about this project. If you post some detailed articles on a few altcoin news sites, you will get enough attention, consequently enough funds, to complete them. Maybe writing a multi-part article seems good to have constant attention on the news.
Funny you should mention writing a multi-part article I have actually been writing for The Coin Front and have done what will be an 8 part article showing the political/economic evolution from the Gold Rush to the Cryptorush. http://thecoinfront.com/a-new-wave-of-pioneers-mining-the-unknown/That is the first part (published April 16th, 2014), and part seven will be coming out today or tomorrow actually. So yeah, I DEFINITELY agree with your idea on how to approach releasing news! I realized part seven of my series is relevant to this issue, as one of the issues it covers is crowd-funding projects and how for example the people that funded Oculus Rift were basically screwed when the company was sold to Facebook and they got nothing in return. One of the ways we are looking to avoid that kind of "burn" of the initial funders is to give Proz Coin holders the option to buy assets in Coin Proz Oy using Proz Coin. This option will be implemented later, but it is one of the ways to give options for people who want to invest in the idea early and not necessarily be stuck with it, but also get the option to become part owner down the line. Chris edit: I have written more articles than JUST within the series. Here are a couple shorter articles: http://thecoinfront.com/can-cryptocurrency-cure-disease/http://thecoinfront.com/jason-king-feeds-over-100000-meals-to-homeless-in-pensacola-through-seans-outpost/ |
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For the record, I have a Master's Degree in Telecommunications, with a focus on "Immersive Mediated Environments". One of the biggest goals of the Coin Proz organization is to establish a positive haven for cryptocurrency that does not discriminate against any coin, but also uses a reward based system to motivate users, rather than relying on punishment or complete self-motivation by the coin communities. There are so many things we have lined up to transcend the dry and boring nature of economics and more specifically cryptocurrency. If cryptos are to every gain mass adoption, the current crypto enthusiasts need to move in the same direction, and obviously with the nature of decentralization we cannot expect something like "Bitcoin Foundation" to be a unilateral voice for cryptos. Coin Proz wants to use the idea of Forum 2.0, Bitcoin 2.0, etc... so we can have a "hub" that is not "biased" towards or against any community. As the masses at large move into cryptocurrency, there will be a value in having many different communities accessible through one portal. Coin Proz will be one of those initial portals, and Proz Coin will be the reward currency associated with Coin Proz.
What kind of hardware does The Research and Development team want to design? Can you name at least one hardware category?
Shannon has already been working on a hardware wallet, and some of the things we were going to try and work with is multi-currency enabled hardware wallets, built in wi-fi/bluetooth, vesting hardware wallets, as well as a few other potential projects. The potential for hardware development is very much dependent upon funding, but Shannon plans to post a blog with updates/photos of any hardware developments, so that will be an EXTREMELY transparent process. Chris |
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I don't mean there is concern over some users "cheating"by click-farming upvotes and such. I mean that if the distribution relies on some central server doing data collection, how can we trust this server itself? Will the server offer some form of authenticated operation, so that we can see that noone (server administrators, datacenter noc night staff, hackers got r00t, etc etc) is actually able to manipulate the allocation itself? So then if you look at how we are going to create the variables for "merged mining", you see that we are going to use our CoinProz Mining Pool to monitor "mining activity" on "any" coin, and then that activity gets paid out in "ProzCoin" based on the PoA score, and not "hashing power".
Similarly, here, there seems to be a large caveat of requiring trust in the mining pool infrastructure. Further, I'd have to assume that when you say "any" coin you of course cannot really mean any... Ah okay! Yes, we plan on having 100% transparency of operations/payouts so that there will be no question of whether the payouts are being manipulated or not. And as far the way we plan on implementing mining, the idea is that we will add PoW coins to the CoinProz mining pool, and monitor the activity so that completed mining hours are what get counted towards the score, and not the "hashing power" of the miner. So if you PoW mine "Dogecoin" through the Coin Proz pool, you will get your regular PoW payout in Doge, but in addition you will get a PoA payout in ProzCoin for "participation" in PoW mining. This way we can bring people into the mining pools, not force them to mine a specific coin, and then reward their activity ProzCoin, which could really be seen as a "bonus". Our model is about trying to get the alternative currency communities to work in the same direction. PoA allows individual communities to thrive, then CoinProz also gives an unbiased home for information distribution, forum particpation, mining, and an all inclusive reward system for involvement. "The world certainly does need more "proof of X" coins but those coins need to not require centralized trust to verify the X, but instead need to actually just prove it." As far as "centralized" trust goes, our aim is that by being inclusive of all the crypto communities, having transparent systems, and eventually having community appointed moderators, we will have a great balance of an autonomous hub that simultaneously promotes the individual communities as legitimate in their own right. In essence, we want Coin Proz to be a large hub for all things Crypto, but we want the market to influence its evolution, and make community participation the main driving force. The concern of "too much centralization" is a very valid one, and one that we have tried to be cognizant of during our entire planning process. Your input is very much appreciated! I raise these questions because lately it seems that we have an influx of "proof-of-X" coins where X is something that is never really provable in the formal sense without some assumption of trust. Bitcoin is Bitcoin because it proves seigniorage without requiring an assumption of trust. A distribution which is only verifiable under an assumption of trust is not much of proof of anything. I COMPLETELY see where you are coming from with this, and in fact that is kind of the reasoning behind PoA. Beyond Cryptocurrency, the internet is full of scam artists, fakers, and bots. We are trying to create a system that encourages REAL people to participate and contribute quality content/action/participation for a reward of ProzCoin. In a sense we are "gamifying" participation so that activity which can easily be monitored such as post count/upvotes, etc... can be tracked, monitored, and quantified for a "score". All of the points of calculation will be on public ledgers, and as I said before there are internal limits so that "attempted exploitation" will continually reduce your score the more you try to exploit it, ultimately making people who exploit the system get no real "benefit" from exploitation, and in fact they reduce their payouts. Chris |
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Very intresting! U must not have a hope, u don't need it)
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HI,dev how can we guys get this coins?
Cryptoshoppers will be selling the first million coins at 250 satoshi, then 9 million will be listed on Lazycoins exchange. Cryptoshoppers accepts over 10 different altcoins for payment in addition to Bitcoin, so the first million Proz are accessible to people holding multiple currencies. On Monday, the first ProzCoin will be offered. http://cryptoshoppers.com/Chris |
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An interesting way to launch, watching..
Distribution Model: All 100 million coins will be mined in 1 block?
10% Will be reallocated for PoA/PoW mining rewards?
Don't see how you will have a PoW if all the coins are in only one block, more info on this please.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the mining/staking keep the blockchain going, PoW/PoS/PoA?
P.S. Looks like a great plan for launch, but need more detail on keeping the block going. Is the PoA going to keep it going, what will the transaction time be? No, we are using Mastercoin Protocol, so traditional PoW mining is something that isn't "necessary" for this protocol. We are developing a combined PoA/PoW protocol, so that if you are PoW mining "dogecoin", "bitcoin", or "litecoin" as an example, our mining pool will monitor your mining and not only will you get your PoW payout from whatever coin you are mining, but you will get a PoA payout in ProzCoin. In a sense, it is "double mining", since Mastercoin Protocol does not need to be "mined" over time using PoW. Again, since this is NOT traditional PoW mining, the block rewards for the combined PoA/PoW mining will be calculated every 24 hours. Here is some info about the Mastercoin Protocol: Master Protocol DesignThe “Master Protocol” layer between the existing Bitcoin Protocol and users’ currencies is intended to be a base upon which anyone can build their own currency. The software implementing the Master Protocol will contain simple tools which will allow anyone to design and release their own currency with their own rules without doing any software development. Chris |
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Hey Shannon and team, MikeS. referred me. Best of luck! I will be following
Thank you very much! We look forward to a growing community! Chris |
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"Shannon Code" is not likely a real name, ofc.
How can "proof-of-activity" be trusted if it relies on integration to a central black-box forum server? What would prevent the forum operators from simply faking their reputation score? What happens if someone compromises the forum? What happens if the forum goes away, can the coin still function?
You should check out Shannon's AMA about his name Anyways, it won't be a "black box" forum, even though a transparent ledger will exist, as the forum is simply part of the overall Coin Proz infrastructure. The coin will still be able to function without the site, as they are separate, and the intent is to build the long term site infrastructure around "ProzCoin" as the main medium for exchange/payment within that network. In addition, the idea of "faking a score" is something that was taken into account from the beginning, so "gaming the system" will constantly be prevented, as someone will constantly attempt to exploit it. It is a reward based system, and there is no "punishment", rather attempts to game the system simply reduce payout logarithmically the MORE a person attempts to game the system. Theoretically, say you earn 100 Prozcoin and try to upvote yourself a ton to increase your score. Well, our upper limits will start to reduce your payout if your upvotes aren't proportional to the views, or whatever counterbalance metric we choose. In addition, if you try to game the system by posting a bunch, until you actually get "feedback" to say your posting is "quality", you haven't fulfilled the full requirements to get "paid". So you can't just game the system by spamming. Here is an example of an equation from the Proof of Action White PaperBase Equation Examples Simple Forum Poster: X = Posts Y = Upvotes Z = PoA Score X(.25) * Y(/\2) = Z Conditional adjustments If X/Y < 10, then Z * 5 If Y/X > 100, then Z *.5 Article Contributor: X = Articles submitted Y = Unique Page Views Per Article Z = PoA Score X(.25) * Y(/\2) = Z Conditional adjustments If X/Y < 5, then Z * .1 If Y/X > 100, then Z * 5 So then if you look at how we are going to create the variables for "merged mining", you see that we are going to use our CoinProz Mining Pool to monitor "mining activity" on "any" coin, and then that activity gets paid out in "ProzCoin" based on the PoA score, and not "hashing power". Since PoW mining benefits miners with bigger rigs, we wanted to promote PoW mining to keep network security across all cryptocurrency since it is intrinsically more secure than PoS mining. In addition, our merged mining system will basically be paying a miner in ProzCoin to mine ANY coin, but just to use our pool. At this point, the user would be receiving whatever coin they are mining PoW for, and then ProzCoin based on their PoA score. A = 10,000,000 ProzCoin B = Mining hours Used C = Base Block reward of 1141 Proz D = leftover proz from previous block + C F = minutes of mining from last 24 hours for an individual N = F/1440 Q = Cumulative individual minutes of mining across network (1,000,000 miners = 1,000,000 minutes) X = Number of miners in real time Y = Number of ProzCoin mined so far Z = total (hours or blocks) 8760 (B/Z) = %Time elapsed (Z-B) = Hours left [C/(X*N)+D]/Q*(Z-B)= 24 hour payout for an individual Miner Chris |
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Thanks for the response. Due to recent crapcoins, I like to find some legitimate coins to invest and mine. I created the following thread to discuss problems related to new coins and possible solutions to them. Take a look, if you are interested: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=726610Oh Wow! I think after taking a read over your ideas, you will REALLY appreciate what we are trying to do. Your suggested solutions are very much in line with what we are planning, and I believe we will take the concept even further! Again, your feedback is not only welcome, it's requested! Chris |
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Proof of Action
What is Proof of Action: (POA) is going to be system designed for the Coin Proz Platform. It will use individualized difficulty increase based on upper/lower limits. POA pays users for article submission, moderating forums, participating on forums. POA adjusts to pay out higher rates for higher quality content based on user ratings. Algorithm has internal limits to logarithmically reduce payout if user continues to go past upper limit to discourage system abuse. Payouts once per week to user/wallet address. POA will be implemented into Coin Proz Platform Wallet after completion.
An active community is another factor for a good coin imho. I like your POA idea, and I think it needs a lot of discussion on its implementation and security. It would be nice if you put its details, so it can be criticized a few times before launch. Btw, SHOPcoin (Bitcoin shop and talk) used the forum idea, (I'm not sure if it was the first one). Maybe if you read its members opinions, it will benefit your POA. Their site has been down for construction, though: https://www.bitcointalknshop.com/forumz/Absolutely! One of our biggest goals will be to take feedback from the community and implement ideas from YOU ALL, so that we are evolving WITH the communities, and not forcing our ideas on the communities. Really that is the essence of PoA itself. As we build we will actively seek feedback from the community. We wanted our announcement to be focused on the coin and not muddled with our long term plans, but we DEFINITELY have plans to greatly increase public outreach, education, and involvement. Chris |
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