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Did anyone even make a serious offer to purchase the GLBSE shares? I know in the thread about it most people thought the asking price was overvalued. To me the initial post was just an information post and that offers were to be made privately through PM or by email. It is in those negotiations that other information would come up, especially that Theymos was not only selling his own shares but also acting as a broker to sell other shares held by other people.
Unless an actual person that wanted to purchase the shares comes forward, I think this scammer accusation is not valid.
Also, anyone that did not see the end coming is not looking far enough down the road and needs to rethink their prowess in estimating how much a business is worth.
1. Theymos wants to sell
2. Theymos states that GLBSE wants to be legitimate
3. GLBSE removes any asset associated with Goat without the approval of the board.
4. SEC investigator contacts many people and asks about GLBSE.
5. Nefario stating that he is talking to lawyers.
I also think anyone that talked to Nefario privately for the last 2 weeks could see his frustration in managing GLBSE. I am sure he would agree that coding GLBSE is much easier than dealing with the legal and people aspect of it.
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GLBSE also states now: Update:we will begin processing account closures and returning bitcoin later today. I also heard from Garr in irc that he spoke to Nefario and that the funds would start being returned today. It is 8 PM in London right now. I am not sure what later today means then. |
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On September 24th theymos falsely announced that he was selling a package of 23% of Bitcoin Global stock. At the time the company was solvent and operational. Asking price was ~5k BTC for the entire block, with the caveat new shareholders would have to be approved by current shareholders. Also on September the 24th theymos declared in support of this sale that the SEC is not investigating GLBSE and further that he personally thinks the SEC emails are fake (they are not, have been in fact verified by multiple trusted members of the community, including by calling the signatory at his phone number as published on the SEC website).
On September 25th Nefario,
...
Did you try to purchase part of GLBSE? |
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oldschool... what could nefario do with the shares? Exactly nothing. So he can give it back because its nothing worth to him. If he would really be a scammer then he would at least try to blackmail shareholders to pay him something to get the infos about shares.
Regarding the scammer tag... couldnt you wait a bit? I mean it can take some days when he wants to create such script. So now he has the tag and could think that all is lost. No one will invest into his new platform. That could lead to "take what i have" even when he didnt plan it from the start.
So no... giving that tag would be better later. I mean who could he still scam now? And how?
Not the best move in my opinion.
He already has the scammer tag. |
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FWIW:
I purchased several of these egift cards - going back many months
and then $1000 worth recently.
Never had any problems, this last time I bought them I actually called up the Home Depot customer service number and spoke to someone - I told them I purchased the gift cards online and wanted to make sure they were legitimate and not purchased with a stolen credit card or anything before I went ahead and used them. She told me they appeared to be legitimate and also said there are many ways people can get these legitimately without buying them, and that is why they can sell them at a discount.
I am really sorry you lost some money on this but from my dealings with him I believe that the egift cards were good when you received them and therefore he is not a scammer
scamming is intentionally ripping someone off. Believe it or not its very possible someone hacked his machine and copied the egift cards - they are just pdf files, its a totally believable situation, especially since he has been doing this a long time, people know that he has these gift card codes and there are many ways people could of gotten his IP address - or a random hacker could of just came a crossed it randomly as he was looking around franks machine and decided to take them.
Because of the security breach : He should probably have a disclaimer on his thread to use them within a short period of time which I will suggest to him at his thread.
In my humble opinion I do not think frank deserves a scammer tag because I am sure those egift cards were working when he sold them to you.
well thats my two cents and I mean it man, really sorry you lost out on this one - it sucks big time. If theres anything I can do to help please let me know.
Tom
He should refund the cards if someone broke into his email and stole the account numbers after he sold them to someone. |
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I agree on pretty much all points. Nefario needs to at the very least provide the records of ownership in GLBSE-listed securities to the issuers of said securities. The site now reads: Update:we will begin processing account closures and returning bitcoin later today. I had a tiny amount in the exchange itself, but my ownership of securities previously listed there is more important. We still have no idea what Nefario plans to do about that. I, for one, am very interested to find out, just where they plan on returning the bitcoin to, and how they are determining which address they plan to use to return them to... -- Smoov i'm sure they will let you give them a BTC address once you send them your passport and other AML docs  Goat, were you invited to the shareholder meeting?  |
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Change the structure of gigamining. Instead of it being described as a bond, have people lease the hardware indefinitely. People transfer leases all the time.
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I don't know if Nefario really deserves a scammer tag. After seeing the talk it was crystal clear it wasn't an operation that knew what it was doing. That's perhaps the trouble of many of bitcoins enterprises, they are run by people who are more excited then they are knowledgable. Being Naieve isn't a scam, it's just kinda stupid (on the part of the scammie as well).
That said, Theymos makes a good point about having the feeling Nefario might be being squeezed by the government in some sort of plea deal in exchange for turning over records. Who knows how deep the Pirate nonsense has gotten.
I'd be more concerned for the people who have money in GLBSE, not about how much they might have lost, but rather what they might legally be on the hook for.
I agree. If you pool in with some folks to have one run out to get a bag of coke and the running gets busted you should just be glad he doesn't give any names. Same thing here. You knowingly enter into an illegal exchange/securities with Nefario and he gets busted you best be glad he doesn't give names. If Nefario is truly under government pressure it's not his will or doing what's occurring now it's Jonny law standing over his shoulder. Blame them not him. If you expect him to do anything outside what the law is telling him now you're in a fantasy land. The shit is just piling up, here Nefario goes again. He wants everyone to play by his rules just like he made goat. The smoothest way for him to do this is to give the database files to someone and let them pay out. No need for him to pay out himself, he don't want nothing more to do with it then just walk away. This shit is just stupid.....
I don't know Goats whole situation but I remember him having a similar issue with Gox. Putting two together just makes Goat seem to smell. Maybe there is some law following Goat who knows the real reason for his second mistreatment, do you? Also weren't you the one calling up FBI among others in the first place crying about Pirate, BFL and I think GLBSE a couple weeks ago? It's a plausible thing that Nefario is being squeezed and a government body is behind this, whatever the root cause. However, save for a few big players like perhaps Theymos and other bigtime investors, I'd pretty much bet there is no risk of legal consequences, especially for the investors. Is it logical to think "they" will be pursuing possibly hundreds of small investors (30, 50 BTC total) through borders, privacy hurdles, etc.? Seems more likely he does not want to work with some people anymore (asset issuers and shareholders) and make a clean scrub of his past responsibilities. |
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I forwarded my domain to this page so hopefully it gets more input.
Is someone really working on the client?
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I tried to remove him as CEO, but there wasn't enough shareholder support. 5-6 people supported removing him against three (including Nefario) who didn't, but our side didn't have enough shares for a motion. Three large shareholders weren't at the meeting, so it was difficult to get the 51% required.
Later on in the meeting, Nefario somehow managed to convince 1-2 of the people who had supported removing Nefario, which is how he was able to pass a motion to order me to give him the treasury funds. So I doubt a motion to remove Nefario is possible now even if the absent shareholders voted.
It doesn't matter anyway, since Nefario said that he would ignore the shareholders and shut down GLBSE. And shutting down GLBSE is against the bylaws, so he needs a 66% vote. He didn't even pursue a 50% vote.
What would I do with the money if I kept it? I don't have the user database.
As Nefario is in contempt of the operating bylaws, I request that the shareholder minutes and records of shareholders be posted here. |
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As for him stealing funds to pay for his lawyer; getting legal advice certainly sounds like a legitimate business expense to me, one you should have invested in a LONG time ago. Its completely reasonable Nefario would pay that with company funds rather than his own personal funds.
I thought he was using users funds to pay for the lawyer? |
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because he felt that insurance should cover the cost of the premium -- a totally ridiculous concept. He supported it wit some kind of theory .. staked capital, that was based on a twisted form of opportunity cost.. and he wouldn't shut up. Again, my model (not theory) correctly evaluated the risk of different bonds. It was mathematically sound, and I invite you to attempt to prove otherwise. He got very personal over it. I had to ban him from posting in my threads because he was that much of a problem. I am seriously not suprised to see him come up with some bullshit scam accusation against me, just in an attempt to kick me when I am down. You're the one getting personal. Correct math is never personal. Can a mod lock these threads please?
Absolutely not. What was the model? |
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I thought bitcoin was just a very expensive version of Second Life.
lol so did I. Theres a stock market in second life  Every bitcoin venture should use a TOS similar to Second Life. |
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Get one person to AML for lots of different accounts for a cut.
Because breaking even more laws in relation to an organisation which is already under scrutiny is a great idea. Right now, everyone has to work on the assumption that everything sketchy to do with GBLSE is going to come out in the wash, including any illegal proposals put forward on this forum. We havent broken ANY laws. Show me one fucking law that mentions bitcoin specifically. this could include just about anything that is a reciept of value such eg amazon, iTunes gift cards. does anybody know how the new legislation for crowd funding would apply in this situation ? It does not apply yet as it does not go into effect until Jan 1, 2013. |
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I thought bitcoin was just a very expensive version of Second Life.
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Why doesn't nefario's account have a scammer tag on it? I want to see it before he or someone else deletes all his posts.
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time to give the forum a good wash
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So why do people want to hide their identities?
Because if 'the feds' are targeting an exchange, the next step is to go after the users of the exchange, I'd encourage everyone to just take the loss and move on... as that's the only sane thing to do. What's wrong with using an exchange? Well according to the Securities Exchange Act of 1934 you can go to fucking jail for trading on an unlicensed securities exchange. Even small exchanges that are granted an exemption from licensure must apply for a license and then seek exemption or they are breaking the law. Its crazy how many Forex traders boast about their vast knowledge of trading skills and don’t even understand the most basic laws surrounding trading. In a recent New York ruling you are fucked by mere association with someone that has committed securities fraud! Court Expands Scope of Third-Party Liability for Securities Fraud“The New York-based Second Circuit Court of Appeals ruled last month that aider and abettor liability is not just limited to those who directly cause a securities fraud, but extends to any individual who so much as associates with the wrongdoing. The decision effectively clarifies the question of what conduct satisfies “substantial assistance” under Section 20(e) of the Securities Exchange Act, which allows the SEC—but not private litigants—to bring civil actions against aiders and abettors of securities fraud.”theymos if I were you I would get an attorney of my own. WHAT? I thought it was regulated? |
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Garr, I have a sixth sense, right?
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