The idea is bad. Bob creates a ton of double-spends and when the fidelity bond is distributed among them he retains most of what he used to defraud Alice. Also, who exactly is going to 'distribute' this reward? Who decides what double-spends to consider or how many?
A similar idea already exists and was proposed somewhere a month or two ago. Double-spends could be deterred by allowing the merchant to 'replace' the transaction with a transaction that gives miners 100% via fees. It then could not be replaced again, and Bob ultimately loses money (and maybe even reputation) as a result of the double-spend.
The network as a whole would decide to "distribute" who else? We could distribute between a fixed amount of first transactions, e.g. if there are double spends at 6:24, 6:25, 6:26, 6:27 and 6:28 then it would only be distributed between the first three since the probability of Alice accepting the fourth transaction before the double spend is detected would be very small. |
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Bitcoin is considered the ultimate tool of the free market, this is the reason it is popular in the cyberpunk, crypto-anarchistic and libertarian counterculture communities. Yet it is completely artificial and arbitrary with most of the values being modified by the selected few that own the bitcoin.org domain, the algorithm that controls the amount of Bitcoins created through time is also completely arbitrary.
I believe I have found the source of the problem. The proof of work function needs special properties. So far, the only class of functions that have the properties we need are cryptographic hashes. Among the few cryptographic hashes available and trusted at the time of release, SHA2-256 provides the best tradeoff between dynamic range and length of output. Others could have been chosen, and can be chosen in the future, if some pressing need arises. But don't fool yourself into thinking that there is some function out there that does useful work at the same time. That would be the holy grail of proof-of-work systems, and lots of people are looking without results. Then, there are fundamental constants. These were arbitrary (within a broad range) at the time the system was started. Why is 600 seconds the goal for the average block time instead of 500 or 700? Why was the initial subsidy 50 BTC rather than 10 or 100? No particular reason. But, once we started using bitcoin, these arbitrary constants stopped being arbitrary. Now we maintain them because we all agreed to them, and no one has the power to force a change. And last, there are implementation values. These are the ones that are, in your words, "being modified by the select few that own the bitcoin.org domain".* Things like the fee for relay values, etc. These influence how nodes interact with each other, but don't change the fundamental rules of the system. Also, there is a fourth class, protocol constants. These are really a subset of the implementation values, which is why I don't mind putting them after the "last" thing. These are things that would require wide adoption to work, but don't really change the rules of the game. For example, If we ever find that 8 places of precision aren't enough, we can make a new transaction version with a wider field and/or a different scaling factor. This would hard fork old versions off, but wouldn't change the rules of the system. * Just for the record, that totally isn't how it works. The developers can make changes to the software, but they can't make anyone actually use it, so their power to change these values is limited by the public's willingness to accept their changes. And the software is totally open and free, so any person or group that doesn't like something can fork their own version.It is rather naive to think so, the same kind of nativity is applied to politics where people actually believe that democracy is "fair" because every person has a choice. Gavin could replace the bitcoin-qt client at bitcoin.org overnight and let the stupid masses that don't know squat empower his flawed decision. |
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Assuming Bob wants to purchase a loaf of bread physically from Alice, Alice works in a supermarket yet Alice wouldn't use Bitcoins due to the lines getting extremely long because people are waiting for confirmations as well as having to physically keep her eyes on the customers so no one bails with the physical merchandise (or double spends), what solutions could we implement to allow for instant transactions?
My model is the following:
Bob has a total of 30BTC of transactions sent to his address (his "banking account"), Bob then purchases a loaf of bread for 1BTC (an extremely tasty loaf of bread) and walks out of the store, if the network detects that Bob has double spent the same inputs that he used to pay Alice with all the BTC that was sent to his address (his "banking account") is divided equally between all the double spent transactions to the outputs by the network. Ultimately leaving Alice with 15BTC because Bob tried to scam her.
If Bob tries to pay for a loaf of bread with less than 2BTC in his address, then Alice has a message that pops up so she has to ask Bob to wait for confirmations before walking out of the store.
Using this system we could both promote people to accept Bitcoin and not sacrifice anonymity or force Bitcoiners into bondage. Future improvements could allow for parents to sign their kids addresses so if their kids double spend the penalty BTC is taken from the parents account.
I don't understand how you've been active here long enough to be a "Sr. Member" and yet have so little understanding of anything about bitcoin. You've recently come up with several ideas and concerns that have been discussed 100s of times and that any "Sr. Member" should understand by now. Please enlighten me as to why the idea is bad? Yeah. Or, you could just insist on having his contact info. Give up anonymity and gain instantaneous transactions. Low tech, but easy.
Or you could just move him to the corrupt banking system and make it faster |
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Assuming Bob wants to purchase a loaf of bread physically from Alice, Alice works in a supermarket yet Alice wouldn't use Bitcoins due to the lines getting extremely long because people are waiting for confirmations as well as having to physically keep her eyes on the customers so no one bails with the physical merchandise (or double spends), what solutions could we implement to allow for instant transactions?
My model is the following:
Bob has a total of 30BTC of transactions sent to his address (his "banking account"), Bob then purchases a loaf of bread for 1BTC (an extremely tasty loaf of bread) and walks out of the store, if the network detects that Bob has double spent the same inputs that he used to pay Alice with all the BTC that was sent to his address (his "banking account") is divided equally between all the double spent transactions to the outputs by the network. Ultimately leaving Alice with 15BTC because Bob tried to scam her.
If Bob tries to pay for a loaf of bread with less than 2BTC in his address, then Alice has a message that pops up so she has to ask Bob to wait for confirmations before walking out of the store.
Using this system we could both promote people to accept Bitcoin and not sacrifice anonymity or force Bitcoiners into bondage. Future improvements could allow for parents to sign their kids addresses so if their kids double spend the penalty BTC is taken from the parents account.
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I am curious, do any of you high IQ members have any criminal record? If yes then for what?
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This thread is absolutely bizarre. More of a way of giving something back instead of burning cycles for no reason
How is this guy a senior member? What is going on? Summer, hot weather... Must be harvest time   You mirin' my buds? Look at dem juicy trichs... That's some dank right there the amount of ignorance i have run into recently is astounding. it's almost like i'm back on GameFAQs
Please enlighten us, what is so ignorant in particular? |
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what about the bad population of bitcoiners? the drug dealers? they are all over the darknet
The system is corrupt to the core, the way I see it there is nothing wrong with drug dealers despite the fact that I am an athlete and chose the life of sports over drugs/alcohol, they are responding to a free market and drugs on the darknet have been the best at reducing violence. |
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Now I see all the girls that use bitcoin, I'm thinking of a website: bitchsuppliesforbtc.com
Where you can get all your make-up, cleaning AND cooking supplies all in one place.
Could have pictures of babies, flowers, kittens etc everywhere What do yous think? Most importantly, tampons!  |
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Is stealing from theives really a crime? There have been major crackdowns on Bitcoin by the central banks, why can't there be a crackdown on central banks by Bitcoin? You aren't just stealing from banks, many of which don't know any better, you are stealing from depositors and anyone who has a vested interest in a bank. Not to mention I reject the concept that all banks are evil, my quarrel is mainly with the Fed. You didn't say central banks either, you said "banks." If Bitcoin became nothing but a system to use for theft, I would not use it, and neither would many other people. That's how you let the Fed win. EDIT: I don't agree with breaking FBI passwords either, and regardless of if you agree with the government (which I don't) the many reasons why should be obvious. This thread is entirely baseless, Bitcoin is very well thought out, and using it to steal money will not make it better.Not necessarily for stealing money or cracking FBI passwords, I was half kidding when writing that. More of a way of giving something back instead of burning cycles for no reason, I understand that manufacturing dollars is probably an even bigger waste of energy but we should aim to be better than dollars, not worse. |
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- snip -
the Bitcoins would be premined the same way they currently are.
- snip -
it is completely artificial and arbitrary with most of the values being modified by the selected few that own the bitcoin.org domain, the algorithm that controls the amount of Bitcoins created through time is also completely arbitrary.
- snip -
I suggest you take some time to read the Satoshi White paper and attempt to gain a slightly better understanding about how bitcoin works before you waste time saying things that don't make any sense. The Bitcoins would be mined by the person looking for the service and put up as bounty, what is so hard to understand? Why is this thread like a magnet for fools/trolls lol... |
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You can try manually retransmitting using the blockchain interface here: https://blockchain.info/pushtxTo get the raw transaction information, get the transaction ID. In Bitcoin-Qt, go to the transaction list, right click the transaction, and pick transaction details. Copy the transaction ID. Then go to Help --> Debug Window and click the Console tab. Type in getrawtransaction transactionID, where the transactionID is what you have in the clipboard. Take that raw transmission data and paste it into the blockchain site. The blockchain will check the raw transaction for validity, and if it is valid, will then transmit it, whereupon it should show up in the blockchain shortly. If it still gets an error, your client for whatever reason is generating a malformed transaction. If it doesn't, your client is for whatever reason generating a valid transaction but then failing to transmit it. I know how to transmit it through blockchain.info what I am looking to do is transmit it with Bitcoin-qt, perhaps set some option in the settings so all of this goes away. |
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The ironic part in Bitcoin is that it's a completely artificial (albeit carefully planned) market that aims to create the ultimate free market, why haven't the devs put any effort into a bounty system to tap into bitcoins network hashing potential? Call it Bitcoin+ and let people put up bounties for unique addresses/darknet union URLs, cracking FBI/bank passwords etc.
One important reason for having the seemingly pointless proof of work problem that bitcoin uses (as opposed to a useful problem), is that its difficulty can be adjusted up and down to regulate the block discovery time. If you were solving a useful problem like cracking keys, how could the difficulty be adjusted? You would be paid in BTC for your work, the Bitcoins would be premined the same way they currently are. I do not claim that Bitcoin is worthless since it wastes processing power. Chopping down trees and printing the heads of dead presidents on them isn't any different. The ironic part in Bitcoin is that it's a completely artificial (albeit carefully planned) market that aims to create the ultimate free market, why haven't the devs put any effort into a bounty system to tap into bitcoins network hashing potential? Call it Bitcoin+ and let people put up bounties for unique addresses/darknet union URLs, cracking FBI/bank passwords etc.
Cracking bank passwords? Perfect, transform Bitcoin from an instrument of freedom to and instrument of theft.  Is stealing from theives really a crime? There have been major crackdowns on Bitcoin by the central banks, why can't there be a crackdown on central banks by Bitcoin? Read my replies.
I have read your replies and reached the conclusion that you are a fool that doesn't understand how Bitcoin works nor what irony is yet try to explain it to other people. what the fuck is this How is 'cracking FBI passwords' related to the 'ultimate free market'? Why would someone pay for a unique 'union' address? ( i lol'd) Again, how is any of it ironic? Oh, I don't know, why would someone offering commercial services pay for a unique domain name? Instead of going to youtube.com you could go to TUCWUBRmshserzJwbNqZL4vL.com instead right? Bitcoin is considered the ultimate tool of the free market, this is the reason it is popular in the cyberpunk, crypto-anarchistic and libertarian counterculture communities. Yet it is completely artificial and arbitrary with most of the values being modified by the selected few that own the bitcoin.org domain, the algorithm that controls the amount of Bitcoins created through time is also completely arbitrary. Please name a market which is not artificial and we can go from there.
Well I think that most markets are artificial but not all, for example if I am a lawyer it is in my best interest to make the government add many new laws on a daily basis, thereby increasing my demand and thus increasing my pay, you could also say the same about universities, schools, many companies, and other competitive "intellectuals", the same isn't as true (or at least not to the same degree) for people in the creative mindset such as artists or people performing basic jobs that are likely to be demanded even in a state of total anarchy, resilient like cockroaches. |
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I am trying to send coins that I have just received and I am getting "code": -22,
"message": "TX rejected", why am I getting this error makes no sense? Shouldn't Bitcoin just keep rebroadcasting the transaction until it is sent? Is there anyway to do this without recompiling the source?
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Read my replies.
I have read your replies and reached the conclusion that you are a fool that doesn't understand how Bitcoin works nor what irony is yet try to explain it to other people. |
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Miners do specific work for the bitcoin protocol, it's not just any old equation.
Can you explain how this is ironic? Else I'm 2 for 2 on my links.
OgNasty, agreed.
READ THE ORIGINAL POST. |
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 ? Not one of your links is relevant at all. |
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You can't just hash into..
1. Select hash type. 2. Select hash pattern. 3. Select reward in BTC per found key. 4. ? ? ? ? 5. PROFIT |
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The ironic part in Bitcoin is that it's a completely artificial (albeit carefully planned) market that aims to create the ultimate free market, why haven't the devs put any effort into a bounty system to tap into bitcoins network hashing potential? Call it Bitcoin+ and let people put up bounties for unique addresses/darknet union URLs, cracking FBI/bank passwords etc.
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When I give a peek to 4chans /pol or reddit, facebook, twitter, pretty much any big community and/or social network people seem to be so ignorant and willing to voice their ignorance whereas in communities such as Bitcointalk (and a couple others which I shall not name) people are able to put together logical arguments, have discussions and view the current events without the glasses with a thick layer of crappy propaganda on them?
Seems that you rarely stumble upon ignorant fools on here.
It depends on where in the forum you go. There are a lot of paranoid conspiracy theorists on this forum. It's not paranoia if it's really happening |
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Great thread - it's my experience as well that the bitcoin community at large has a higher level of intelligence, and most importantly, a better sense of awareness. Why? This is fringe community, it's not a place for the sheeple to congregate. To jump into something revolutionary and outside the norm, it either takes courage, anger, or smarts. Or all three. As a rule, those that dare to help create new systems for others to follow are smart enough to see the big picture, and to conceive of ways of doing things that improve upon what already exists. Bitcoin is a community of leaders, for the most part (at least for the time being), and those folks tend to take a high IQ with them as they lead the charge. It's one of my favorite aspects of this group - we think for ourselves, overall, and it's a beautiful thing.  'i'll suck yo dick'  Well, I didn't expect that one. Top lewl thx for the link |
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