Thanks for that. People can find it in their account at the following link:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;sa=theme

Got a link?

Based on what different companies have said. (Avalon and bASIC)

Avalon has stated they are aiming for 130nm to 110nm.
bASIC has stated they will be using 90nm.
BFL has not yet gone on the record as to what process node they will be using.

So logically, up to this date, bASIC is using the smallest process node based on publicly available information.

It says on your product specs page that you are using 90nm ASIC. Is this the final spec or is it only for the prototypes? (dumb question I know, but I have to ask it)

So far you seem to have the smallest process node of the 3 ASIC companies if so.

All is quiet before the storm. [Kidding!]

I commend Cablepair for his updates and calm disposition.

Courtesy of: www.butterflylabs.com

Your right, sorry about that.

II'll hold this conversation elsewhere.

I also propose to store his posts on his own BFL forum website (with an offline copy of course).

It would be very interesting if BFL_Josh/Inaba accepts this proposal as it will tell me if he is embarrassed or not by his behaviors.

If he edits it at any point on the BFL forum, it will be damning evidence. If he is embarrassed to let his own business people see his own words on their own company forum, then it would prove that he recognized is acting inappropriately.

@ BFL_Josh/Inaba

Do you mind if I use a thread on your company forum?

You must be missing the point. The point is to collect his posts in such a way that keeps a record of his interactions. What good is a record if he himself can edit them?

if he edits them it would become evident if they were stored elsewhere on the forum (or as many have pointed out) on another forum site.. With the internal feature it is not possible at this time to secure posts from editing either at the user level or (if as claimed) the moderator level.

I didn't miss anything.

(also for the record, I would like to point out that BFL_Josh/Inaba has been much nicer since this was proposed. Either that or the Mod talked with him about his dramatic behaviors.

I also noticed that a frequently unused account called BFL has become active. It averages only a handful of posts (1 or 2) per month. It is very curious to see and leaves me in wonder if there will be new names and handles.

[Speculation]

If we go by what we do know....then a mini-rig has 192 chips (24 fully populated boards).

Each Chip runs at 7.8125Gh/s.
Consuming just under 8 watts per chip.

7.8125 X 8 = 62.5 Gh/s per module.

Each boards draws about 62.5 watts X 24 boards = 1500 watts

Not including fans and a few other devices with marginal draw. (hence their power supply is 1650watt if I recall correctly.

Edit: Assuming a mini-rig board is about 100mm between boards and is distributed at even distances of 3 x 4 into 2 separate stacks. It should occupy somewhere around 1' depth x 2 feet height and about 8 inches width.

Or roughly the size of a full tower computer case. (well minus the radiator if they use the water cooling techniques.)

So the actual max is not 1Ghz but closer to 1.1Ghz.

With a max draw per chip of about 16 watts.

Got a link?

We should call it....BulgeGate!

A revolutionary 3D processor from BFL. [/joke/]

---------------------

Hopefully it is a manufacturing defect they actually noticed. Ever seen what happens when a heat-sink doesn't make good contact with the chips...totally fried. I hope they do visual inspections before final assembly.

I have data mining software and comparison software. So even if he does edit his posts it would be fairly easy to find out where and what was edited out.

I could do a similar thread for Tom and NgZhang. If nothing else, it would show people what the main representatives of each company on the forum are saying and how they say it. The quality and characteristics of these response types will undoubtedly determine if people stay with a particular company or not.

If a representative behavior is unbecoming or tragically undermines their company reputation, I am sure they will have their own incentive for modifying their behavior and being careful of what and how they post.

My only question is which corner of the forum is the best place to put it?

I'd prefer you leave this thread alone.

--------------------------------

There is a big difference between a lie and an presumption.

Tom does know what your estimated power figures are. He simply does not believe they are an accurate depiction of your final product. He has stated he believes this is unlikely to be true. This is called a partially informed opinion with bias.

You (Inaba) call into question Toms not-yet-be-released power figures without knowing what they actually are presumed to be. You have formed an opinion based on various assumptions on the technology and design that might be used and with very limited knowledge over his device. This is a largely uninformed and heavily biased conclusion.

The difference (if any) is that Tom does not believe your stated power figures are an accurate depiction of your device. You choose to assume (based on your technical assumptions/assertions) that Toms device cannot be anywhere near his yet-to-be-released power figures.

This is called a difference of opinion on different points of fact about either persons device. Both known and unknown factors.

------------------------------

Further, you have taken it further than simply an opinion and have gone forward  to broadcast assertions (without direct knowledge) that Tom is fleecing/robbing his customers.


This steps beyond mere speculation and into the area of Defamation. Possible Libel and Slander.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defamation
-----------------------------

Starting in the next few days, I will write an automation script to collect your posts and post them in a thread called:
"Inabas/BFL_Josh Words of the Day".

Every 24 hours your publicly released posts will show up in sequential order for everyone to read. Any Vitrol you wish to commit will be collected there indiscriminately.

People will have a fine opportunity to skim your fine posts of the day in one place. What I hope to achieve is a fact of behavior trending. If the majority of your posts are kind and amiable with your prospective users, customers, and people in general....people will see that. If they are unkind and extremely unproductive (and even financially destructive to your company) they will see that as well.

I suppose that with this, you will either be forced to consider the ramifications of every post you make and modify your behavior OR concrete it to the best of your ability.

If you are seen as helpful, it will show. If you are not, you have only yourself to blame.

?

I don't recall Tom having offered the money to charity? You were the only one who did that.

Condition 1: His bet was about whether you (as in BFL) would come out under 1.1 watts per Gh/s....

AND

Condition 2: Stay out of this thread until that was proven....

-------------------------

If both condition was met as true, he would fork over 1000 BTC to you. (or BFL)

If either condition was false, you would fork over 1000BTC to him.

-------------------------

Thats what I read in this thread over the last ~5 pages~.

You then rejected his offer based on the second clause of having to leave this thread until the first condition was proven true or false.

You made a counter proposal to Tom after you turned his down. He must prove his power figures are competitive with BFLs product and you would not be staying out of his thread.

------------------------

Then you opened a thread on BitCoinTalk, announcing, you would suddenly be donating 1000BTC to charity if you "won the bet". Though Tom has already rejected your bet. He decided to announce his power figures or other device specification on schedule as he had planned weeks in advance.

(Still unclear as it is still developing on your part)

As a result of your thread over "which charity" would win the [supposed] spoils of a bet that was already rejected before the thread was ever even opened....you started a spirited argument/debate over which charity is ti be "blessed" by BFL.

Then just today, not inconsistent with actual events, you announce that you never expected Tom to accept the bet....and....therefore you had no actual intention to go through with the bet that was already rejected before the thread started.

Now you have changed your tune to the cost of 1000 BTC. You have now stated you will donate 1000 BTC to charity despite the fact that Tom would never accept the bet.

------------------------------

You know Inaba, you really need to think these things through before you act. You even made me look away in disgust at the charity thing. Because your playing with peoples hearts. Thats like playing a game over which orphanage is lucky enough to be blessed and which one isn't.

You tried to create goodwill among members despite already knowing and expecting that the bet would never even get off the ground. VERY DISTURBING behavior....

Whats worse is doing it when you know the other party has already rejected your bet and therefore there is no point in taking suggestions over which charity will reap the rewards. You are probably gonna blast me to kingdom come for pointing this out.

But you haven't yet, and I assume it is because you hope no one actually paid any attention to what lead to the thread being posted.

Now you have to explain to your boss why you need to give away 1000 BTC on the company dime.

---------------------------

You know your company has at least 1 million in capital. So that means even if you started out aiming for 110nm...when the influx of orders and money came in you could have easily have asked the right people for a significant die shrink.

Based on your confidence, your company is probably using a very expensive process node. Which means your power figures are closer to 30 or 40 watts. You would likely have won Toms bet without a sweat.

The charity thing....as you played it was ultra bad PR.

Especially in light of the offer already being rejected. You asked people to talk over hot air and a premise that would never be. Only now, are you changing your tune and justifying a sudden large payment to charity despite the bet being rejected.


Someone needs to get your boss's email and efax him pages of your conversation. You have a way of somehow rubbing people the wrong way. Whatever the cost is in reputation, you boss should know you are costing him money. No matter what kind of person he may be, he would be hopping mad if he heard about this affair.

You succeeded [somehow] in making people walk away with extra capital for your company. God help you if your current customers have any problems with the hardware. You're the first in ASIC technology. The last in any reasonable sense of treating people with "the right touch".

You really have no idea how to deal with people. Your situation management is 10 times worse.

With a bulge that big I doubt it. It wouldn't mate evenly with the HeatSink.

Might be a defective board they are holding in front of the camera.

This thread is tantamount to grandstanding on a soap box over an offer that (for absolutely sure) the other party won't ever accept. Even rejected before the thread was created this offer was already rejected.



It is like mounting a false motive through a thread over "a bet" you already know the other person has very clearly stated they have already rejected.

Bringing up the "Charity" issue and having members discuss/debate "to whom" the spoils of this bet should go to.....when the proposed donor knows it will never even become a bet is....

I best say no more. I don't like trash talk.

+10

Now that is the REAL spirit of charity.

I have to say, this is terrible.

Not only did Inaba turn a hit at Tom on power figures, now he is turning around and making it seem like it was his bet to Tom. (instead of the otherwa around)...It was the other way around.


To top it off....hes now opened a thread and is now making it seem as if Charities will "win out" of this skirmish of words and bitcoin bets....people are all riled up over which charity is more deserving....

You guys are being played with like toys....

I don't know about you, but I am personally offended at this tactic. I understand Psychological games...but this game is one gone way too far. I'd ask for Mod intervention but I don't know if they would even bother with this mess.