Serious developers know how to rent CPUs cheaply. For 10 BTC, you rent enough CPU power to mine out the low difficulty at the start. But what they also do is have their buddies doing the same things, a select group of professionals dominate. And of course keeping the launch confusing and low key also helps to keep the difficulty low. We even have dead coins that were originally distributed by PoW mining, that have been rejuvenated where some guys bought up the supply of the coins and relaunched it with more respected developers and new plans and coding, e.g Aeon. So there again not a very wide user adopted distribution, instead more of an investment clique.

Btw, you assumed I was arguing against mining, but in fact I was not. I was arguing against professional mining and for mining that is well distributed to users.

And more saliently, my point to you is that eliminating IPOs is not a panacea.

The problem is not whether developers find some way to reward themselves for their risk, $100,000 of man-hours invested (in smooth's case on Aeon by the time he is done), and iniative, but whether that reward is consumerate with the user adoption attained or whether it is just another greater fool investment scheme. No one is going to have time to complain if for example a developer has 90% of the coins and has generated a 100 million user adoption and changing the world (yet I am nearly certain no developer can retain that many coins and reach even 1 million user adoption). Everyone will be too busy jumping on that train. No one even really cares how much of the coins the early miners of Bitcoin got.

I am resetting the poll again, so we can get votes relevant to the choices I will realistically consider accepting, so I can know the Altcoin forum community perspective towards my current choices. There is a slight chance the community's vote could sway me to another direction on the naming. The more likely point of this (probably final) poll is just so I know better the thinking of this Altcoin forum community. I do not think this Altcoin community is indicatve of the broad user market. It will be a potentially useful baseline data to have a record, so future polls and results in amongst different demographics (or even this same community over time) can be compared.

Here is a record of the prior two votes.

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All feedback is welcome and yours is useful because it explains why I would get a negative reaction from someone like you. You only relate to engineering and code. That is fine, I wear that hat most often. But I also wear other hats occasionally and that is why you can not relate at this time because I am wearing my marketing hat.

Organizing plans first is more important than coding first, because one who wastes his time coding that which they have to throw away and start over again, does not make progress. Working smarter is much more astute than working blindly harder. One could dig a trench with a spoon, or get organized and use a bulldozer. Or better yet, realize the city government is digging the trench next week, so do nothing and wait.

One who lets names and marketing priorities slip away because they are always coding, is relegated for life to being just a coder. Many people can code (such as yourself). Very few people can code on something that is worth coding. The marketing people make the big money, and the coders slave away for salary.

If you show no interest in naming, then you are only a coder. So you wouldn't understand. That doesn't give you the expertise to criticize me. How many million user products have your produced by yourself tromp?

Edit: tromp one of the issues I was trying to sort out was whether I was going to discard the more playful and fun types of social names for a currency. And also to sort out whether I had sufficient high quality options such any of the choices encounter irrevocable pitfalls down the line. And to make sure I had registered (only the) key domains needed to protect the desired choices and range of quality plan B options.

Edit#: I added alias for the option you requested, "i'm biased against you or your style".

It is notable that some people will complain about me posting 2 - 3 times per day in my thread, yet there is a higher post volume in the AEON thread and they mostly talk about how many coins they are buying, exchange volume, liquidity, etc.. As if investor clique masturbation is coding. 

So far we have proposed Sync (a.k.a syᕱᕳ, BlocSync, Bitsync, Ƀitsync) for the consensus network on which many assets may co-exist.

And we have proposed Bits (a.k.a Ƀits, Bitcash, Ƀitscash, or Ƀitscoin) for the currency name:


I am now also proposing there be a second currency, either (Cha-)Ching or Cꙭl cash. This second currency will be more playful.

The Bits currency will have a very low debasement rate (perhaps 0% if contemplated to be equivalent to the "transaction fee" rate). The Ching or Cꙭl currency will have a higher debasement rate. In this way, users can choose to sell first from merged mining that which has the lower ROI for mining (even though I expect mining to be unprofitable for professional miners and ASICs). In this way, there will be a natural market regulation between high and low debasement rate options. The high debasement rate will put more tokens in the hands of users and probably have a higher velocity of money (TX/s) which implies a higher valuation, but this is offset by the desire to not hold it for store-of-value if the higher velocity does not sufficiently offset (in short, it is complex and the market must arbitrage the balance).

The playful currency will only have one unit (to prevent nꙭbs confusion) and it will be set so that micrʘ-transactions are whole number values. The proposed currency symbols are:

✨	(cha-)ching
ꙭ	cool (cash)

The lowercase of Ƀ is ƀ. Thus if we own domains such as ƀits.net, then Ƀits.net is same domain since all uppercase letters are converted to lowercase (by the web browser) when navigating to a domain (because domains are always lowercase).

Thus I have changed the proposed millibits symbol from ҍ to ƀ.

Also there are variants of ʘ, e.g. ⵙ and ꖴ, but I think I prefer the first one.

Also there is an alternative spelling for Sync that would clearly not be already trademarked and can be used in a domain name:

synᕳ
syᕱᕳ

I can relate to that. Discerning highest priorities is an art.

I would say that choosing a currency unit symbol for ion (in case you use it) is a reasonably good priority, because ion is such a strong (succinct, no confusion on how to spell it, connotes electric charge) name either for the micro unit and/or the project. And then register the names with that symbol iff they are available in .com, .net, and/or .cash. I wouldn't waste on other TLDs, unless no other choice. I would prefer .net over all.

Also if there is any possibility of choosing ₳ or Å as the currency symbol, then I suggest the community register .net and/or .cash in those variants if they are available.

Wild (probably bad) idea, æ⍟n.ws is available if you wanted to use ⍟ as a currency symbol.

As for the other names proposed, I can't comment on their likelihood since I haven't seen that discussion.

I would also suggest consideration for aesthetic and technical (looks like a radio tower, also the angstrom sign Å) appeal:

4. Å

There are some other strange ones:

5. Ѧ
6. Ꭿ
7. Ꮬ
8. Ḁ
9. Ά
10. Ɐ
11. Ⲁ
12. Ꙗ ("iotafied" A)
13. 𝔸
14. ⍙
15. ⍲
16. Ⓐ
17. @
18. ䷃
19. 🃁
20. ᗑ
21. ホ or ㅊ or ⚻
22. ム
23. ⧋

A quick google search can get the character for you, and I presume people who have an incentive (making a price list, etc) will typeset the symbol. People in a rush can just write out aeons and ions.

For a currency symbol, if it is lowercase then it really needs some sort of extra glyph so it doesn't appear to be part of the text. I believe the domain system maps the upper case characters to the lowercase, thus Æon.info is really æon.info


If I am investing $100,000 in man-hours, I will make sure the project isn't "el cheapo" when it comes to marketing. If others can't contribute, I will have to. Ideology is for hippies and birds.

Afaics, the point of ion are two possibilities:

• As an insurance policy in case the market prefers the succinctness, aesthetics, and connotation of electric charge over the nebulous aeon, especially if the currency symbol is the uppercase Ө (or Ӫ, Ȯ, Ȱ, Ю, Ⱉ, ⍟, ⍬, Ⓘ, ☮, ⚡, ⚛, ⛀, ㋛, ⵀ, ⵙ, ꖴ, ◌, ☀, ♾, ⚆, ⬭) and then the name is iɵn.net and iɵn.cash (or iӫn.cash, iȯn.cash, iȱn.cash, юn.cash, iⰙn.cash, i⍟n.ws, i⍬n.ws, ⓘn.news, ☮n.news, ☮.news, ⚡on.ws, i⚛n.ws, i⛀n.ws, i㋛n.ws, iⵀn.cash, iⵙn.cash, iꖴn.cash, i◌n.ws, i☀n.ws, i♾n.ws, i⚆n.ws, i⬭n.ws). I've donated ion.cash for those who don't want to type those strange symbols.
• For a more succinct micro-payment currency unit than 'microaeons', or the 'bits' used by 3 - 4 other crypto-tokens.

Edit: b⛀⛀lberry, bꩪlberry, b⚭lberry, b⚯lberry, b∞lberry, b➿lberry, b⬭⬭lberry, b⟳⟳lberry, bꙭlberry.

Note iɵn.com, iɵn.net, and iɵn.cash are available as well. Makes me wish I hadn't given it away.

I really don't understand being serious about an altcoin enough to invest $100,000 in man-hours of your time and being unwilling to invests $100s in domain names. As a marketer I would scratch my head at that.

Perhaps for the currency units:

ǣ - aeons
ȯ or ɵ - ions

I want to advise you that you can register ǣɵn.com at namecheap.com. Smooth I think you should grab something like that immediately.

Not an absolute truth. One can potentially influence market psychology by selling for higher prices to yourself in high volume, thus causing more buyers to enter the market. Sellers would be wise to hide their sell walls and go with the pump. An untraceable anonymous coin that can be infinitely recycled without detection (or a whale of distinct coins) is required.

Indeed it probably all works better when the whales (and the lead developers) are coorperating. Lead developers can help drive a pump by announcing new plans (or kill a pump by putting out some negative information).

Disclosure: I did not buy any BBR nor Aeon in advance (nor at any time) of making statements that might have caused the recent spikes in their prices. It didn't even enter my mind, because I don't think like a speculator. I am a geek who spends my mental energy solving engineering challenges.


My development efforts will be an attempt to try to hit the user adoption sweet spot. We'll see how that ends up. I think it is a lot easier to sell an IPO and pump the token prices. Actually I don't see an entire difference between an IPO and mining, because mining is limited to a select group of professionals. The distinction I would prefer to make is between distribution to speculators and distribution to users.

With "Green", they even build on the environmentalism, man-made global warming delusion to try to get people to accept this 666 enslavement.

Thank you for the response and explanation.

I wish the marketing power of the name choice did not compel me to choose it, because I would prefer not to use something that anyone else had attempted to market. Unfortunately, I see this as the best name by far in order to take on Bitcoin which is what I intend to do. I am not just building a niche, but intending to replace Bitcoin in some potentially large markets where it had decided to ignore the market (e.g. micro-transactions, anonymity as a key property of fungible money, friendly developer APIs, block chain features other than just Bitcoin, etc).

It is clear that the first proposed use of 'BIT' or 'bits' was the proposal to use it as an alias for µBTC, which is a prior art on your use of Bitz as a currency unit. However this was not widely adopted by the millions in the Bitcoin ecosystem.

Your coin is not even a smidgen of widely adopted (certainly not users, and only a modicum of investors) so there will be no confusion if Bits gains wide user adoption. And Bits doesn't gain wide adoption, then both of us failed in the user market. As for confusion in the investor speculation market where your adoption could be claimed to be not totally zero, I want to assure you I will not be marketing Bits on these forums nor to the investment speculators, thus there will be no confusion in the market where you have some small (perhaps growing) but not zero market share.

So in other words, there will be no confusion because while Bits is nascent, it won't be promoted (not by me at least) in these forums where you promote Bitz, but rather directly to users via other distribution channels where you do not market Bitz. And if Bits becomes a widely adopted user phenomenon that is on speculators' radar, then there won't be confusion which Bits the speculators are interested in by that juncture.

I was aware of Bitstar and their technically incorrect use of BITS as the currency code (XBT or XBS would be correct), but I didn't know they were using BITS as the currency unit. Bitstar uses the currency symbol ฿ and I proposed Bits use Ƀ. Indeed Bitstar uses the 'BITS' currency unit whereas I have proposed using the 'bits' currency unit:



Also we should note that the name of the coin is Bitstar and not Bits, which is not confusing at all. If someone searches for "bits coin" or "bits cash", they will end up at my project's website and not at Bitstarcoin.com. If they search for "bitstar", "bitstar coin", "bitstar bits", they will end up at Bitstarcoin.com.

So we have two prior arts on using the term 'BITS' (even the Coinbase capitalized the 'BIT' for the µBTC alias) for the currency unit, but no prior art for using the term Bits as a crypto-token protocol name.

And what matters in the end is whether there will be confusion due to two very similar names having similar levels of market awareness. I don't think there is much confusion between Bits and Bitstar. If someone says "pay me some bits" at this time, no one would have any clue whether they mean Bitcoin BITS, Bitstar BITS, or Bitz bitz. So at this time since these projects or usages are very rare, then someone would need to qualify which kind of bits they want. So in that case they would say "pay me some Bits' bits". If one of these usages becomes very widely adopted in the user market, then no one will be confused which bits someone is referring to. As for investors, there won't be any confusion between Bits and Bitstar.

I really don't see great confusion between Bits and Bitstar. Bitz and Bits could be very confusing if both are well known in a market. I think I explained to you that for the nascent investor speculation market, Bits won't be competing with Bitz for eyeball share. If Bits becomes very popular as I hope in user markets, then Bits will have won and there won't be any confusion. If Bits dies on the vine in user markets, then you will keep your small share of the investor speculation market exclusively.

It is not a perfect situation, but I think it will work out okay. If I am successful as I hope to be, you may get more from selling your domain than from your crypto-token project. If not, your efforts won't be diluted in the meantime.

To protect the Bits crypto-token protocol usage, I registered the following domains:

bitscoin.org
bitscoin.us

I am amazed the first domain is available, because it is a one letter misspelling of bitcoin.org which is taken to be the official domain of Bitcoin. So if people start using bits and get confused with Bitcoin, they might type bitscoin and end up at my site. Note it appears bitscoin.com and bitscoin.net are both for sale (the latter for $1500).


Remember up thread it was smooth (but more so another Monero supporter) who were stating I should shut up and code instead of focusing first on choosing a name. I understand the priority of marketing and even apparently the Bitcoin community did not.

Edit: there is more discussion about the adoption of "BIT" or "bit" for Bitcoin's µBTC alias, as well the need to adopt XBT instead of BTC as the ISO currency code. I believe it would make much more sense for Bitcoin to use XBC and for Bits to use XBT. But if Bitcoin is going to claim XBT, then Bits can choose XIT, XBC, XBI, or XBS.

Everyone is hoping to catch the next big thing.

The liquidity (float) is so low on these altcoins, that is easy for those who own a lot to pump up the price by buying from themselves. Most of the liquidity is fake. Thus bag holders buy into this fake price rise, so the whales can dump their worthless tokens.

So the next big thing is mostly a facade and hype.

Most of you are not expert enough traders to outwit the way this game is played.

If you see something that looks like Bitcoin's early days where users are starting to adopt it and use it, that might be a genuine "to da moon" speculation. Real usership drives real liquidity.

There will be greater fools. But with a real phenomenon like Bitcoin, it is genuinely possible to cash out and buy a $1 million castle as Rpietila did. Hey I was richer than him in 2009. He bought 10,000 BTC for < $10, and become a multi-millionaire.

This might still be possible. If it is going to happen again, it will be something within Bitcoin's ecosystem or it will be some very unexpected something that bests Bitcoin in some significant market segment (this isn't likely though because there are a lot of resources that will be brought to bear if Bitcoin is seriously threatened).

If something is going to go gangbusters, you'll have a good feel for it early on if you have eyes peeled wide open, your radar on, and your powers of discernment dialed in.

Now for the optimistic part. There is a lot of experimentation going on now. Look at Iota, "blocklist", my work, Factom, Blockstream, Ethereum, Bitshares, Nxt, CounterParty et al, Lightning Networks, Aeon, Monero, eMunie, etc.. These are all serious efforts by serious developers (don't ask me which are fraudulent, because I don't know).

Out of all that experimentation (and many I didn't mention or I am not aware of), something significant might surprise us. It isn't entirely useless.

Spoetnik just accept that greater fool speculation has been around since the dawn of human civilization, so just accept it as natural.

Peace.

I am looking forward to see what smooth et al can do with the Aeon/Ion theme and it is well known that I respect smooth's skills. He and I already established that he is a computer programming language polygot (as I am, but he more so), he has exceptional logic, and that he is a more experienced and complete network stack engineer than I am (and that last item is an understatement!). I have much more experience and interest than he does in the user interface and visual creativity side. Heck I even wrote GUI subsystems such as emulating the Mac API on Windows for what is now Corel Painter.

Smooth and I want essentially the same goal which is for crypto to become much more popular and to advance the technology. We are both fascinated by the concepts and the possibilities. I believe smooth is more of out-of-the-box thinker (but maybe not as far out-of-the-box as myself, so let's just say nuances of cultural difference perhaps for example as he appears to have been heavily experienced in open source for long time and I came from the commercial world of graphics and destop publishing software) than perhaps some of the other Monero devs who may be more pragmatically focused.

I think fundamentally the major difference is those devs appear to come from server backend type open source backgrounds, and I come from the Steve Jobs era of highly refined creativity and delivering million user consumer software. Those guys interfaced mostly B2B and I interfaced mostly B2C. I think that is why we are seeing massive cultural friction between our styles. I did not come from academia and publishing white papers. I was sleeping under my desk as a programmer since the summer of 1983 pretty much non-stop until Dec. 1, 1999. I've been mostly out-of-production since at least 2012 due to illness. From 2003 to 2009, I was goofing off. In 2010 and 2011, I made some serious attempts to be productive again. I coded some social networking sites but nothing hit a sweet spot.

He deleted my following post from that new self-moderated thread and has locked his prior pre-announcement thread (which was not self-moderated).


As an example of the confusion in spelling, note in my multi-tasking haste, I did the quoted whois search on bits.biz, not bitz.biz. Lol.  

Actually the first record of his website becoming active with the crypto-token is Sept 28, 2015.

Note in addition to various bits domain names, I have also registered:

bitsync.us
bitsyn.co
bitsyn.ch
bitsync.biz
bitsync.network

So if we refer to our consensus network as as "Sync", that is short-hand for Bits Sync or BlocSync.

The currency is Bits or Bits.cash.

I unlocked it for you at GoDaddy (subliminal "who is your daddy?").

Good to see it has suggested utility in your coin community. In my polls it seemed to have at least a 50% approval rating and stood up well to other names in terms of voting even when I was discouraging voting for it.

The reason I spent $49.15, was because Godaddy was the only registrar that had it available. I expended a fair amount of effort to find ion.cash available, as it was not available on the other registrars I normally use.

Nxd2 met by Bc3 is followed by Nxf3 which is check. Thus they must capture your Knight, which allows you to Qxa2. So you get a Knight, a Rook, and a pawn (with your Queen in a powerful back side position, Rook opened up to attack down the middle and clearing the forward attack for the light square Bishop) in exchange for losing a dark square Bishop and Knight.

I haven't played out all the scenarios in my head yet. Just wanted to note that one counter defense.

Edit: I don't have enough time to study all the possibilities, but looks like my suggestion may make it impossible for Monero to defend both flanks of the pawns on the left and the light squares Bishop. I am thinking you should attack. But study it more carefully than I have time to. Monero's queen is in a much weaker position than your queen afaics, which is probably the key to the game at this point.

I have made the decision to donate the ion.cash domain to smooth and the Aeon project. I believe I spent $40$49.15 to register it afair.

If you would like to accept this meager donation, please tell me how to transfer it to your desired registrant. It is currently registered at GoDaddy under my name.

It would be best to complete this before I become too busy on other matters.

P.S. This is orthogonal to any other issues. The name ion likely was a subconscious invention after learning smooth was working on aeon. I'd prefer to not have two coins with such similar names (in addition to iota). I have other available choices for names, so I think this name should go to whom was first.

And that requires being more interested in respecting creativity than shooting down the competitors' investment(s).

Our problem is we are targeting investors and not the users.

We forgot to spend most of time on the code and let the speculators do what they do. And spend most of our time interacting with users and developers.

I know what my plan is as a lead developer.

Enough talk. I think the point is clear now.