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441  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: September 04, 2017, 06:52:56 AM


This year and next they will play catch up until Bitcoin (in some year long-time from now) normalizes to size of an invested financial asset with a market cap above $300B (current market cap at time of this writing is less than $80B).


I can't be the only one that suspects BTC will reach $300B market cap in 'some year' that will start in about 4 months...  Exponential growth is... Exponential.  It doesn't even have to double twice to achieve this.

I'm applying lots of caution, with that said I estimate 18 to 48 months to hit $300B mkt cap for bitcoin. I anticipate that there will be no major wars.
442  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: September 04, 2017, 05:55:16 AM
I hate to be a Debbie Downer but I do not like the risk/reward for btc right now. If we manage to break through $5000 I see a maximum of $5500 to $7000 before a major (meaning painful) correction. I am talking about $2500 to $2800, 50% correction or back to the weekly 20 MA. You know it will come, we just don't know when. I would rather wait for a huge discount to buy. I hope I am wrong, really, but I doubt it.


Based off your news alert, I was about to sell a chunk of my bitcoins but then was confronted by THIS:

Sell my BTC for which of these?



What would outperform bitcoin?

Bitcoinnewsmagazine, you are hinting at US dollars outperforming? That's a very impressive ability to predict the bitcoin market, you must be one of the richest people alive. Hats off to you.


Over time, during times of fear and war just compare Bitcoin to other financial assets and compare real data.

Also, if war takes hold the waves of credit start to recede from traditional financial assets, but there is a CROSS-BORDER, UNFREEAZABLE asset of Bitcoin which is experiencing an INCREASING amount of net investment INTO bitcoin EVEN AT recent "HIGH" PRICES.

One of the drivers is that only some private investment funds, hedge funds, private partnerships, endowment funds are BEGINNING to dip tiny allocations into this new uncorrelated financial asset.

This year and next they will play catch up until Bitcoin (in some year long-time from now) normalizes to size of an invested financial asset with a market cap above $300B (current market cap at time of this writing is less than $80B).


If the market were to collapse (modern-day markets pegging S&P 500 US Stocks index as a worldwide primer) - where will the flight to safety be?

Quantfunds (Quantitative investment funds that rely on mathematical models for investments) are infamous at crunching through vast arrays of data across all asset types to use combine investments of less-correlated assets together to acheive great investment returns while still being defensive during down markets. And the outperformance of Bitcoin when other assets are down will not go unnoticed.

Info on The chart above:

The chart above shows since mid-June here were the performance of asset-classes when S&P 500 was down more than -0.2% in a day.

There were only 10 days since mid-June where daily drop of S&P exceeded -0.2%. The above compares how Bitcoin, Gold, Long Term US Treasury Bonds, US Commercial Real Estate (REIT), and Bullish US Dollar Index did on those same days.

The assets are represented by most established, regulated, liquid ETFs:
Gold  ticker: IAU - iShares Gold Trust
Long Term US Treasury Bonds ticker - TLH - iShares 10-20 Year Treasury Bond
US Commercial Real Estate ticker - VNQ - Vanguard Real-Estate-Investment-Trusts ETF
Bullish USD index ticker - UUP - PowerShares DB US Dollar Index Bullish

Where will the flight to safety be in terms of assets/investments?



There are already 3 large institutional investment vehicles for private investments, hedge funds, and quant-funds to get bitcoin exposure:
-XBT provider's bitcoin swedish nasdaq etf (priced in SEK currency) : bitcoinxb / bloomberg ticker: coinxbt [not real btc]
-Grayscale's bitcoin Over-the-counter markets fund : GBTC  [not real btc]
-Gemini's exchange's daily auctions of bitcoin buyers and sellers [real btc?]

This is outside of the many popular exchanges that exist for bitcoin and cryptocurrencies including p2p exchange localbitcoins. [real BTC]

443  Economy / Speculation / Re: Will Bitcoin value crash if North Korea goes to war with Japan on: September 04, 2017, 05:40:23 AM
So during the weekend NorKor tests another H-Bomb. Things are heating up this side. Japan and SoKor all feelin uneasy. USA is barking but nothing beyond it right now.

Bitcoin has weakened a bit over the weekend. That is a totally alternate reason I guess.

Sanjeev... wait until other traditional markets are open to really compare other financial assets.

You want to know the truth of what's been happening with Bitcoin prices during times of fear and NK news? Just scroll to chart below.

If war takes hold the waves of credit start to recede from traditional financial assets, but there is a CROSS-BORDER, UNFREEAZABLE asset of Bitcoin which is experiencing an INCREASING amount of net investment INTO bitcoin EVEN AT recent "HIGH" PRICES.

One of the drivers is that only some private investment funds, hedge funds, private partnerships, endowment funds are BEGINNING to dip tiny allocations into this new uncorrelated financial asset.

This year and next they will play catch up until Bitcoin (in some year long-time from now) normalizes to size of an invested financial asset with a market cap above $300B (current market cap at time of this writing is less than $80B).

Evidence of said recent phenomenon:

If the market were to collapse (modern-day markets pegging S&P 500 US Stocks index as a worldwide primer) - where will the flight to safety be?

Quantfunds (Quantitative investment funds that rely on mathematical models for investments) are infamous at crunching through vast arrays of data across all asset types to use combine investments of less-correlated assets together to acheive great investment returns while still being defensive during down markets.

What will hedge fund / quant-fund data show?

Since mid-June here were the performance of asset-classes when S&P 500 was down more than -0.2% in a day.



There were only 10 days since mid-June where daily drop of S&P exceeded -0.2%. The above compares how Bitcoin, Gold, Long Term US Treasury Bonds, US Commercial Real Estate (REIT), and Bullish US Dollar Index did on those same days.

The assets are represented by most established, regulated, liquid ETFs:
Gold  ticker: IAU - iShares Gold Trust
Long Term US Treasury Bonds ticker - TLH - iShares 10-20 Year Treasury Bond
US Commercial Real Estate ticker - VNQ - Vanguard Real-Estate-Investment-Trusts ETF
Bullish USD index ticker - UUP - PowerShares DB US Dollar Index Bullish

Where will the flight to safety be in terms of assets/investments?

There are already 3 large institutional investment vehicles for private investments, hedge funds, and quant-funds to get bitcoin exposure:
-XBT provider's bitcoin swedish nasdaq etf (priced in SEK currency) : bitcoinxb / bloomberg ticker: coinxbt [not real btc]
-Grayscale's bitcoin Over-the-counter markets fund : GBTC  [not real btc]
-Gemini's exchange's daily auctions of bitcoin buyers and sellers [real btc?]

This is outside of the many popular exchanges that exist for bitcoin and cryptocurrencies including p2p exchange localbitcoins. [real BTC]

Does it seem to be that private investors see an easy flight to safety into bitcoin for its investment portfolios?

These past 24 hours served as yet another example; global newslines ringing alarms of N.Korea missles flying past Japan as well as continued floods in Texas and Mumbai India - amidst all the trouble, alot of money had flowed into "safety" of Bitcoin to push it to new highs.

It seems this pattern has already been established - and funds will continue to flow into bitcoin when other financial assets falter?

Any comments? On Global assets and fiat?
444  Economy / Speculation / Re: GBTC Bitcoin Investment Trust Observer on: September 04, 2017, 05:30:24 AM
https://www.cnbc.com/video/2017/08/31/short-seller-andrew-left-targets-grayscales-bitcoin-trust.html?play=1

According to this fella we're 6 months out from ETF's and other crypto currency instruments.


Edit: If we start to really rally hard over the next month or so, do any of you believe GBTC can still continue to increase its premium?

Regardless even if another ETF never gets approved - there's already an ETF that's been out that trades at very little premium on Nasdaq Nordic (accessible to US investors whose brokerages have european equities - ie Interactive Brokers);

-XBT provider's bitcoin swedish nasdaq etf (priced in SEK currency) : bitcoinxb / bloomberg ticker: coinxbt [not real btc]

-Grayscale's bitcoin Over-the-counter markets fund : GBTC  [not real btc]

-Gemini's exchange's daily auctions of bitcoin buyers and sellers [real btc?]

This is outside of the many popular exchanges that exist for bitcoin and cryptocurrencies including p2p exchange localbitcoins. [real BTC]

...Anyone foresee opportunities for potential arbitrage?
445  Economy / Speculation / Re: From Gold & Stocks to Bitcoin: An Exodus? on: September 04, 2017, 04:45:52 AM
gold earnings
Gold doesn't have 'earnings'.  And I would argue that the gold market was on fire
right up until 2011, when it was $2000/ounce or so.  It's been flat ever since, although
in the past few weeks it hasn't been doing too badly.  Gold, so I've heard, isn't supposed
to be a money making investment; it's supposed to be a hedge against inflation, i.e., it
should keep its value, whereas fiat money inflates.

People are just chasing hot investments, and bitcoin has been one of the hottest lately.
Call it an exodus, whatever.  That's what's happening.

Sure but only some private investment funds, hedge funds, private partnerships, endowment funds are BEGINNING to dip tiny allocations into this new uncorrelated financial asset.

This year and next they will play catch up until Bitcoin (in some year long-time from now) normalizes to size of an invested financial asset with a market cap above $300B (current market cap at time of this writing is less than $80B).

And whether financial assets swell or waves of credit start to recede from these assets, there is an INCREASING amount of net investment INTO bitcoin EVEN AT recent "HIGH" PRICES.

Evidence of said recent phenomenon:

If the market were to collapse (modern-day markets pegging S&P 500 US Stocks index as a worldwide primer) - where will the flight to safety be?

Quantfunds (Quantitative investment funds that rely on mathematical models for investments) are infamous at crunching through vast arrays of data across all asset types to use combine investments of less-correlated assets together to acheive great investment returns while still being defensive during down markets.

What will hedge fund / quant-fund data show?

Since mid-June here were the performance of asset-classes when S&P 500 was down more than -0.2% in a day.



There were only 10 days since mid-June where daily drop of S&P exceeded -0.2%. The above compares how Bitcoin, Gold, Long Term US Treasury Bonds, US Commercial Real Estate (REIT), and Bullish US Dollar Index did on those same days.

The assets are represented by most established, regulated, liquid ETFs:
Gold  ticker: IAU - iShares Gold Trust
Long Term US Treasury Bonds ticker - TLH - iShares 10-20 Year Treasury Bond
US Commercial Real Estate ticker - VNQ - Vanguard Real-Estate-Investment-Trusts ETF
Bullish USD index ticker - UUP - PowerShares DB US Dollar Index Bullish

Where will the flight to safety be in terms of assets/investments?

There are already 3 large institutional investment vehicles for private investments, hedge funds, and quant-funds to get bitcoin exposure:
-XBT provider's bitcoin swedish nasdaq etf (priced in SEK currency) : bitcoinxb / bloomberg ticker: coinxbt [not real btc]
-Grayscale's bitcoin Over-the-counter markets fund : GBTC  [not real btc]
-Gemini's exchange's daily auctions of bitcoin buyers and sellers [real btc?]

This is outside of the many popular exchanges that exist for bitcoin and cryptocurrencies including p2p exchange localbitcoins. [real BTC]

Does it seem to be that private investors see an easy flight to safety into bitcoin for its investment portfolios?

These past 24 hours served as yet another example; global newslines ringing alarms of N.Korea missles flying past Japan as well as continued floods in Texas and Mumbai India - amidst all the trouble, alot of money had flowed into "safety" of Bitcoin to push it to new highs.

It seems this pattern has already been established - and funds will continue to flow into bitcoin when other financial assets falter?

Any comments? On Global assets and fiat?
446  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: In the event of Market collapse - Quantfunds & Hedge Funds' flight to safety? on: September 02, 2017, 05:43:25 AM
If the market were to collapse (modern-day markets pegging S&P 500 US Stocks index as a worldwide primer) - where will the flight to safety be?

Quantfunds (Quantitative investment funds that rely on mathematical models for investments) are infamous at crunching through vast arrays of data across all asset types to use combine investments of less-correlated assets together to acheive great investment returns while still being defensive during down markets.

What will hedge fund / quant-fund data show?

Since mid-June here were the performance of asset-classes when S&P 500 was down more than -0.2% in a day.



There were only 10 days since mid-June where daily drop of S&P exceeded -0.2%. The above compares how Bitcoin, Gold, Long Term US Treasury Bonds, US Commercial Real Estate (REIT), and Bullish US Dollar Index did on those same days.

The assets are represented by most established, regulated, liquid ETFs:
Gold  ticker: IAU - iShares Gold Trust
Long Term US Treasury Bonds ticker - TLH - iShares 10-20 Year Treasury Bond
US Commercial Real Estate ticker - VNQ - Vanguard Real-Estate-Investment-Trusts ETF
Bullish USD index ticker - UUP - PowerShares DB US Dollar Index Bullish

Where will the flight to safety be in terms of assets/investments?

There are already 3 large institutional investment vehicles for private investments, hedge funds, and quant-funds to get bitcoin exposure:
-XBT provider's bitcoin swedish nasdaq etf (priced in SEK currency) : bitcoinxb / bloomberg ticker: coinxbt [not real btc]
-Grayscale's bitcoin Over-the-counter markets fund : GBTC  [not real btc]
-Gemini's exchange's daily auctions of bitcoin buyers and sellers [real btc?]

This is outside of the many popular exchanges that exist for bitcoin and cryptocurrencies including p2p exchange localbitcoins. [real BTC]

Does it seem to be that private investors see an easy flight to safety into bitcoin for its investment portfolios?

These past 24 hours served as yet another example; global newslines ringing alarms of N.Korea missles flying past Japan as well as continued floods in Texas and Mumbai India - amidst all the trouble, alot of money had flowed into "safety" of Bitcoin to push it to new highs.

It seems this pattern has already been established - and funds will continue to flow into bitcoin when other financial assets falter?

Any comments? On Global assets and fiat?
447  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin Foundation ask US Government Accountability Office to investigate FBI on: August 31, 2017, 10:55:30 PM
Does anyone know of this bill is making progress, or if it's likely to die? I researched a bit but can't gauge whether it will happen or not.

Regarding the Bill, I hope it dies .... it was put on hold about 5 years ago but S13 of S1241 need to be wiped once and for all. I have put this page together: http://www.abolishthebitlicense.com/advocacy.php

I actually thought the Foundation was defunct, so indeed it's surprising to hear anything from them. The bit about investigating the FBI is an adorable joke; of course they won't be investigated.

No, the foundation is not dead ! All the trade organizations would like it to be dead ... like Coincenter.

In July 2017, in San Diego, an organization called the Uniform Law Commission voted to ratify a new version of the NY Bitlicense. All the information is here. When the Bitcoin Foundation learned about the ULC, it set a letter that caused the commissioners to pause. http://uniformlaws.org/Committee.aspx?title=Regulation%20of%20Virtual%20Currency%20Businesses%20Act

Now, the Bitcoin Foundation understood that the fight on the Bitlicense in New York was not dead.
http://www.itpro.co.uk/strategy/28261/bitcoin-news-bitcoin-foundation-readies-legal-team-for-us-regulation-battle

At the same time, there is another Bitcoiner, Morpheus Titania in Jail. The whole piece on asking the FBI is for him.
https://www.freedomsphoenix.com/Article/216911-2017-04-25-update-on-morhpeus-titania-aka-thomas-costanzo-arrested-4-20.htm

We created a Facebook Page for him: https://www.facebook.com/groups/FreeMorpheusTitania

This is another guy arrested: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9pX7IQ6UOVM (Randall Lord) but after pleading realizes his mistake.

If you want to read the documents:

This is a transcript on the hearing. It's page 8 Line 6. There should have been a major objection here. http://www.article78againstnydfs.com/docs/PetixCase/2015-cr-00227/55-Transcript/12913785335.pdf

Before that hearing, there was this report made by a judge where he answers the question: Are Bitcoins “Money” or “Funds” Under Section 1960? Defining the terms “money” and “funds” requires using a few principles of statutory interpretation. (Page 7) http://www.article78againstnydfs.com/docs/PetixCase/2015-cr-00227/36-Report/document.pdf

The Bitcoin Foundation in the long ass letter says it: http://www.article78againstnydfs.com/docs/BitcoinFoundation/LetterFromClaasenToCommittees-08-29-2017-FULLPACKAGE.pdf

"Congress should investigate the DOJ’s policy of prosecuting individuals in certain Bitcoin-related transactions under 18 U.S.C. § 1960" (Page 2)

This is explained in detail in Page 10 of the document. The DOJ has misapplied 18 U.S.C. § 1960 to prosecute individuals involved in exchanging Bitcoin for cash or other financial instruments.

The bitcoin foundation stopped joking.
I did wake them up in Miami back in January.

Thank you - this and the original post is really good stuff.

Unfortunately, the majority of users posting on this forum do not understand that government licenses and regulations are bad for bitcoin. Even further, they would not understand even if every government bans bitcoin despite this bitcoin still would be used, sought after and invested in regardless.
448  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: In the event of Market collapse - Quantfunds & Hedge Funds' flight to safety? on: August 30, 2017, 03:36:06 AM
If the market were to collapse (modern-day markets pegging S&P 500 US Stocks index as a worldwide primer) - where will the flight to safety be?

Quantfunds (Quantitative investment funds that rely on mathematical models for investments) are infamous at crunching through vast arrays of data across all asset types to use combine investments of less-correlated assets together to acheive great investment returns while still being defensive during down markets.

What will hedge fund / quant-fund data show?

Since mid-June here were the performance of asset-classes when S&P 500 was down more than -0.2% in a day.



There were only 10 days since mid-June where daily drop of S&P exceeded -0.2%. The above compares how Bitcoin, Gold, Long Term US Treasury Bonds, US Commercial Real Estate (REIT), and Bullish US Dollar Index did on those same days.

The assets are represented by most established, regulated, liquid ETFs:
Gold  ticker: IAU - iShares Gold Trust
Long Term US Treasury Bonds ticker - TLH - iShares 10-20 Year Treasury Bond
US Commercial Real Estate ticker - VNQ - Vanguard Real-Estate-Investment-Trusts ETF
Bullish USD index ticker - UUP - PowerShares DB US Dollar Index Bullish

Where will the flight to safety be in terms of assets/investments?

There are already 3 large institutional investment vehicles for private investments, hedge funds, and quant-funds to get bitcoin exposure:
-XBT provider's bitcoin swedish nasdaq etf (priced in SEK currency) : bitcoinxb / bloomberg ticker: coinxbt
-Grayscale's bitcoin Over-the-counter markets fund : GBTC
-Gemini's exchange's daily auctions of bitcoin buyers and sellers

This is outside of the many popular exchanges that exist for bitcoin and cryptocurrencies including p2p exchange localbitcoins.

Does it seem to be that private investors see an easy flight to safety into bitcoin for its investment portfolios?

These past 24 hours served as yet another example; global newslines ringing alarms of N.Korea missles flying past Japan as well as continued floods in Texas and Mumbai India - amidst all the trouble, alot of money had flowed into "safety" of Bitcoin to push it to new highs.

It seems this pattern has already been established - and funds will continue to flow into bitcoin when other financial assets falter?
449  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: In the event of Market collapse - Quantfunds & Hedge Funds' flight to safety? on: August 27, 2017, 12:04:25 AM
Bitcoin's lack of correlation to other financial assets and its ability to hedge against market losses will do very well as more investment portfolios anywhere in the world begin to add or increase their allocation.
450  Economy / Speculation / Re: Cashing out could destroy crypto? on: August 26, 2017, 09:30:34 PM
...Yet almost every single person involved in Bitcoin is using it to try to get more of that very thing Bitcoin was designed to 'get rid of'.

I never cared for Bitcoin as an investment vehicle, it's a tool that offers people financial freedom and independance.
Yes tell me again how stupid i was selling cheap and how bad i should feel, notice how i don't care.
Because for me Bitcoin was never about making more Dollars.
...

Kwukduck, I can point you to hundreds of altcoins that can help you get rid of your fiat - almost any scamcoin will help you achieve that. Enjoy.
451  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / In the event of Market collapse - Quantfunds & Hedge Funds' flight to safety? on: August 26, 2017, 09:14:38 PM
If the market were to collapse (modern-day markets pegging S&P 500 US Stocks index as a worldwide primer) - where will the flight to safety be?

Quantfunds (Quantitative investment funds that rely on mathematical models for investments) are infamous at crunching through vast arrays of data across all asset types to use combine investments of less-correlated assets together to acheive great investment returns while still being defensive during down markets.

What will hedge fund / quant-fund data show?

Since mid-June here were the performance of asset-classes when S&P 500 was down more than -0.2% in a day.



There were only 10 days since mid-June where daily drop of S&P exceeded -0.2%. The above compares how Bitcoin, Gold, Long Term US Treasury Bonds, US Commercial Real Estate (REIT), and Bullish US Dollar Index did on those same days.

The assets are represented by most established, regulated, liquid ETFs:
Gold  ticker: IAU - iShares Gold Trust
Long Term US Treasury Bonds ticker - TLH - iShares 10-20 Year Treasury Bond
US Commercial Real Estate ticker - VNQ - Vanguard Real-Estate-Investment-Trusts ETF
Bullish USD index ticker - UUP - PowerShares DB US Dollar Index Bullish

Where will the flight to safety be in terms of assets/investments?

There are already 3 large institutional investment vehicles for private investments, hedge funds, and quant-funds to get bitcoin exposure:
-XBT provider's bitcoin swedish nasdaq etf (priced in SEK currency) : bitcoinxb / bloomberg ticker: coinxbt [not real btc]
-Grayscale's bitcoin Over-the-counter markets fund : GBTC  [not real btc]
-Gemini's exchange's daily auctions of bitcoin buyers and sellers [real btc?]

This is outside of the many popular exchanges that exist for bitcoin and cryptocurrencies including p2p exchange localbitcoins. [real BTC]

Does it seem to be that private investors see an easy flight to safety into bitcoin for its investment portfolios?
452  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Have you seen this? All the Money in the World - Visual from demonocracy on: August 19, 2017, 03:51:50 AM
Interesting viewpoints.

Hmm, well I was amazed about the $50 Trillion in Fiat money in Banks available for withdrawal at anytime.
Bitcoin isn't even ONE PERCENT of that?!

453  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / ? Increase fees to lower spam ; Decrease fees higher spam ? on: August 19, 2017, 03:12:05 AM
"Increase fees to lower spam ; Decrease fees higher spam"

What does the above mean and what does it have to do with Bitcoin?
454  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Have you seen this? All the Money in the World - Visual from demonocracy on: August 15, 2017, 02:45:59 AM
I encourage you to scroll through this cool visual here of the liquidity pyramid which includes bitcoin (Jan 2017 already being dated):

http://demonocracy.info/infographics/world/lqp/liquidity_pyramid.html

Have you seen this?

Surprised by anything here?
Thoughts?
455  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin: A Hedge Against The $152 Trillion Ponzi Debt Bubble on: August 15, 2017, 02:32:22 AM
Bitcoin: A Hedge Against The $152 Trillion Ponzi Debt Bubble

Article: https://cryptohustle.com/bitcoin-a-hedge-against-the-152-trillion-ponzi-debt-bubble

Global fiat issuance of currencies in the form of banknotes as well as credit has been devaluing the wealth of cash savings, fixed incomes, and paychecks.

Excerpt from article:
...
"...According to Bill Gross, a billionaire bond manager, Bitcoin has the potential to counter central banks.

Many people within the legacy system are critical of negative interest rates and quantitative easing, yet the fundamental problems are rooted at a much deeper level. The entire economic credit structure operates like a convoluted Ponzi scheme, and requires an overhaul from the ground up. 
The Fractional Reserve Ponzi Scheme

The history of banking goes all the way back to goldsmiths who issued out receipts for physical gold stored in their vaults. The gold was kept secure and the receipts were traded as the first paper notes.
..."
[continues on]
(snip)

Anyways, the article is completely right. I don't think that people realise how dangerous central banks can really be. Just take a look at zimbabwe and Venezuela, two very recent examples. We're not even in the 20th century, this is 21st century stuff. Both countries looked healthy before their hyperinflation began to overtake the entire economy. Things can happen so quickly. But people who live in a country that currently has good economic standards seem to not care about a decentralized movement or currency because they think that it's enough to have fiat.

It obviously can't be farther from the truth. But really, dumb people can hold their fiats all they want. I'll just keep buying bitcoin and hold it for the long term.

Even more dangerous would be the reaction of all the peaceful citizens of the world after they found out the extent of fiat (institutional fraud) from central banks from nearly every country in the world.

Central Bank system perpetuates the worst funny-money games.
456  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Bitcoin Challenge: Give solution for an Organization to hold safely on: August 09, 2017, 03:00:30 AM
How does an Organization safely hold/share Bitcoin wallet but also prevent theft or loss of private key(s)?

Example: Organization has two managers and three employees and Bitcoin is held for organization - and there always exist one employee who wishes to steal and/or one employee who's always replaced by a new one (quits,fired,death). What is solution for Bitcoin be safely held for this entire organization and spend Bitcoins safely from time to time?

This organization could be anything, it could be a FAMILY (parents & three children), a NONPROFIT, a BUSINESS, a CHURCH.

What are the solutions?

457  Economy / Speculation / Re: Which one to buy? Stocks Houses Gold or Bitcoin or Bonds? on: August 05, 2017, 11:16:31 PM
Another update (though this chart shows old stale bitcoin price of 2800 (vs 3200 trading level today)):



How should we invest?
458  Economy / Speculation / Re: BCC taking the crown. on: August 05, 2017, 10:30:34 PM
kwukduck likes BCC, that means we should really dump it... I was not sure if i'll do it, but now, pretty much decided Smiley

If you read satoshis whitepaper you would know the direction Bitcoin is going is not what he would have wanted, he only wanted to scale to bigger blocks over time, which is what BCC is doing, no fancy protocol changes to cripple the whole thing.
Devs worked so hard a few years ago to get rid of transaction malleability just to now reintroduce that attack vector again through SegWit... Sorry but if you don't see the bankster/blockstream scheme behind this you're just not paying attention.

kwukduck=funniest guy ever. I love this guy. not much makes me chuckle anymore but this guy gives me a laugh. man....does anyone know how to follow or get notified when certain users post? I'd like to follow this guy.
459  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Time to Face Reality in 2017 ... on: August 05, 2017, 10:26:24 PM
Love this (read it backwards or cheat and scroll-down)

It's time to face reality in 2017
Bitcoin is not the currency of the future
We need to stop listening to self-proclaimed experts and hack economists who say
Bitcoin will change the world

The Bitcoin experiment has finally been resolved. Everybody was wrong:
Bitcoin is dead.

Mike Hearn said ‘farewell to Bitcoin’ and took a job with Goldman Sachs because he thought
‘Bitcoin is just an experiment.’

Circle CEO Jeremy Allaire says nobody will be using Bitcoin in 5 years because
It’s still early days. Something better will come along and replace it.
People were wrong when they said
Bitcoin will bring reliable self-banking to the unbanked in third world countries.
Smart people understand that
Bitcoin challenges central banking and undermines the ability of governments to keep financial tabs on their citizens.
In order to fight terrorism, the government tracks everything you do online.
Personally, I’m tired of living in a world where
Hackers, drug dealers and terrorists can use Bitcoin to get away with their crimes.
It’s actually just a myth that
Bitcoin is good for the world.
That’s dead wrong.
You aren’t smart enough to use Bitcoin; it will never be adopted by the masses.
Economists like Paul Krugman keep saying
Bitcoin is evil.
I don’t believe that
Bitcoin can make the world a better place by empowering people.
All you can do with Bitcoin is buy drugs. And maybe a hitman.
It just isn’t true that
Bitcoin can be used for good as well as bad.

It is true that Bitcoin is riddled with scams and crooks. Mt. Gox blew up, Ross Ulbricht went down. Hardly a day goes by without somebody getting hacked or handcuffed. We all know

Bitcoin was born in sin.
Charlie Stross wants Bitcoin to die in a fire. He says
Bitcoin is evil.
I’m tired of hearing that
Bitcoin is actually close to mass adoption.

The price of Bitcoin today is nearing an all-time high, but the Economist Magazine says it’s just a bubble – Like tulip mania. The smart money says

The experiment is over – Bitcoin has failed.
Only fools believe that
But wait – isn’t this all backwards?! Read the article in reverse:

[Original article by Dr. Michael Moriarty published at http://darknetmarkets.com/time-face-reality-2017/ . Dr. Michael Moriarty is the owner of https://TorWallet.com and one of the largest Bitcoin holders in the world.]


BACKWARDS

Backwards:

But wait – isn’t this all backwards?! Read the article in reverse:
Only fools believe that
The experiment is over – Bitcoin has failed.
The price of Bitcoin today is nearing an all-time high, but the Economist Magazine says it’s just a bubble – Like tulip mania. The smart money says
Bitcoin is actually close to mass adoption.
I’m tired of hearing that
Bitcoin is evil.
Charlie Stross wants Bitcoin to die in a fire. He says
Bitcoin was born in sin.
It is true that Bitcoin is riddled with scams and crooks. Mt. Gox blew up, Ross Ulbricht went down. Hardly a day goes by without somebody getting hacked or handcuffed. We all know
Bitcoin can be used for good as well as bad.
It just isn’t true that
All you can do with Bitcoin is buy drugs. And maybe a hitman.
Bitcoin can make the world a better place by empowering people.
I don’t believe that
Bitcoin is evil.
Economists like Paul Krugman keep saying
You aren’t smart enough to use Bitcoin; it will never be adopted by the masses.
That’s dead wrong.
Bitcoin is good for the world.
It’s actually just a myth that
Hackers, drug dealers and terrorists can use Bitcoin to get away with their crimes.
Personally, I’m tired of living in a world where
In order to fight terrorism, the government tracks everything you do online.
Bitcoin challenges central banking and undermines the ability of governments to keep financial tabs on their citizens.
Smart people understand that
Bitcoin will bring reliable self-banking to the unbanked in third world countries.
People were wrong when they said
It’s still early days. Something better will come along and replace it.
Circle CEO Jeremy Allaire says nobody will be using Bitcoin in 5 years because
‘Bitcoin is just an experiment.’
Mike Hearn said ‘farewell to Bitcoin’ and took a job with Goldman Sachs because he thought
Bitcoin is dead.
The Bitcoin experiment has finally been resolved. Everybody was wrong:
Bitcoin will change the world
We need to stop listening to self-proclaimed experts and hack economists who say
Bitcoin is not the currency of the future
It's time to face reality in 2017


You're welcome.

one of my favorite posts of all time.

Judging from the replies that came after, I think people are posting in this forum and not really reading at all. Is the above too tough to understand even after spelling out the BACKWARDS part?

You guys read it the backwards way right? Bitcoin has freed, continuing to free, and tomorrow will still free many people globally from the centrally controlled debt-based fiat system that confiscates your wealth with inflation and tax. Bitcoin is a TRUE savings vehicle. Real Estate, Hospital healthcare, Global traveling, College Education gets cheaper as you hold Bitcoin.
460  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin: A Hedge Against The $152 Trillion Ponzi Debt Bubble on: August 05, 2017, 10:17:03 PM
I agree with the article that one of the symptoms of the current financial sittuation is the wage slavery. Its somewhat a solution to the existing problem, by having a numerous almost slave like labour that is so much in debt that it will serve as a good financial colateral.

As long as people can be sold into the debt bondage the system won't collapse, as it does not matter if the system is absurdal. If it has a free lunch in form of slaves, the efficiency is not important.

Very interesting thoughts.

...But what if those same wages were instead paid in Bitcoin?
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