"Honest, Ethically, Revolutionnary..."
If the first thing someone say is "I am honest", it's probably because he isn't.
Yeah , and "Revolutionary" means it's the same old scam.  ) You forgot it is "guaranteed" and managed "honestly" It is an uggly website and a complicated sc.am because it appears you have to work to be scamm.ed |
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This is my first time posting, I've never bothered to do it before but i got to share my fear on this matter..
What can someone who stole a bunch of BTC and has very limited fiat do to cover his traces?
I would make a flash crash on a low volume market and prepare everything i have on several accounts to catch the low figures and buy as many clean coins as i could.
I would prolly lose 3/4 of coins but i get clean 1/4.
It is pretty unlikely that it is what happened. Someone that stole so much BTC may not risk in on a plateform if it is "tainted BTC" I am glad you brought up the post about not glossing this over, it was an extreme anomaly and was crazy to see.
My personal opinion was that it was human error, but I have never sold BTC on BTC-E so I do not know if any sort of queue's pop up before you confirm your sale or anything. My off the wall thought, or you could call it the conspiracy theory thought, that is just for fun and not something I truly believe....is that there was a single person or group of persons responsible at MtGox for the bug on their end that eventually led to the crash, and they were forced to sell their personal wealth of BTCs at $102 OR ELSE!
Anyways, I hope the true story comes out but until then I am sure we will get many guesses..
I have read a few possible explanations so far : -Human error -Apetersson's plausible explanation : "the plausible explanation is that a bunch of long positions were forcefully liquidated during a margin call. this caused ridiculous market orders to be executed. additionally, the total market depth on those two platforms is not spectacular, so "only" about 8000 coins were needed for these two spikes." -Conspiracy theory to weaker Bitcoin -A big sell order to activate automatic limit losses and profit from it The sell-off had nothing to do with the use of bitcoin as a currency. Bitcoin is worth the same today as it was yesterday. Two factors caused a financial event for speculators: A false PR report by a broken company, Mt. Gox, and leveraged long positions facing margin calls. You may recall the same thing happened to the stock market in 2008. Perhaps the NYSE has immature infrastructure that means the U.S. dollar is not ready for prime time? Unlike the stock market, bitcoin resumed normal pricing within hours.
Everything is working as intended, here. Except of course for Mt. Gox.
Bitcoin is great but the BTC exchanges have a lot to learn of NYSE and Nasdaq or at least they are not using the same amount of human capital and technology, NYSE and Nasdaq work smoothly enough, managing huuuge volums without many hiccups |
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There is now a DDOS. Presumably orchestrated by someone trying to exploit the GOX bug in order to drive the price lower.
For a long time, Bitcoin protocol allowed transactions to be expressed in multiple different ways, yielding potentially several different Hashes /ID numbers for the same tx.
They fixed this many months ago so that the qt wallet and the command line client only ever issue tx in a standard 'canonical' format that has a single possible hash/ID, and the standard Bitcoin daemon won't forward or mine tx that have one of the noncanonical representations.
But Gox didn't fix their own software, and every so often Gox would issue a tx that didn't have the canonical form. There were a couple of miners that still allowed these transactions to go into blocks, so the noncanonical transactions would be delayed while all the miners that didn't allow it got blocks, then finally go through when they got "lucky" and hit a miner that hadn't updated software.
A couple weeks ago, after many warnings, the Bitcoin network reached a threshold and the full nodes stopped accepting blocks that contain noncanonical transactions. Miners that hadn't updated their software yet started getting orphaned blocks every time they included one of them, which happened about as often as Gox emitted them. The bug at Gox bit their asses as payments made from Gox having a noncanonical representation were refused by the network.
Keep in mind, at this point this is less than one one thousandth of the payments coming out of Gox. Essentially it only happened in some small fraction of the tx where Gox was spending its own unconfirmed change txouts.
But as Gox started spinning on that little dildo, some malefactor went, "Hey, I bet we can give them a much bigger dildo to spin on! We can make Bitcoins cheap enough to buy a bunch of them if we make this look like a bigger problem!" And they monkeyed up a little script, which they then pushed out to some botnet somewhere.
Their script takes regular transactions off the Bitcoin network and re-emits them in noncanonical form, in an effort to absolutely melt down anybody who hasn't completely fixed this bug yet. Gox goes from having an occasional problem where it thinks it's made a payment that it hasn't actually made (because it made it WRONG), to being absolutely helplessly reamed on a giant monster cock. The few remaining miners that haven't updated their software go from getting one extra orphan every once in a while to getting every last block orphaned. Meanwhile the rest of the network is spammed with thousands of bogus transactions a minute, all of them copies/alternate expressions of 'real' transactions. The real transactions (in canonical form) get accepted by the network and the bogus ones don't, but the network is under strain.
This sudden flood of noncanonical transactions results in exposing an edge case in the qt and cli client software, as well as the software used by *MOST* exchanges. This edge case is benign, but confusing. The problem is that the noncanonical transactions can show up as unconfirmed tx for a while in your client. They will never confirm, and the correct transactions that they are copies of will confirm eventually, so this is essentially harmless. But it can make it appear such that you've accidentally made a payment twice, or appear that a payment coming to you has been sent twice - one of these payments will eventually confirm, and the other will not, but for a few hours, it will look like there is something wrong. And the payments have different ID numbers.
Bitstamp now looks at the situation, going, "hmm, there's a DDOS underway and I bet a bunch of our customers are going to be making transactions to try to "correct" this double payment situation which doesn't really exist, and when they understand what actually happened, and that there were no actual double payments being made, they'll have made transactions they wish they hadn't. We should head off that situation somehow...." and so they suspend trading because they figure that's easier than trying to explain everything to their user base.
Other places, like Coinbase, carry right on trading because they figure if their customers make transactions because their customers are confused, then that is their customers' problem not theirs, and besides they're in a more litigous jurisdiction and afraid that if they suspend trading that will open them up for lawsuits, either for failing to execute or for contributing to a panic.
Meanwhile, Bitcoin developers go 'doh!' and get to work fixing it so that noncanonical transactions which won't ever confirm also don't ever show up as unconfirmed.
That seems very plausible, I can see all the actors involve make the decisions that you are guessing they made, that is still probably not exactly what happens but mtgox is using an customised wallet, there has been a DDos attack What is your explanation concerning the 102$ sell on btc-e? |
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Oui certains utilisateurs du forum offrent de racheter les BTC de chez gox pour 70% de "vrais" BTC (ce que j'ai trouvé de mieux, certains les rachetent à 10% !!) Apparemment un des derniers échanges s'est fait à 15goxBTC pour 12BTC
Ce n'était qu'une offre de vente ; pas sur qu'elle ait abouti ? Après bonne idée pour sauver ses coins, ou panic sell car MtGox va réouvrir, perso j'en sais rien !! Disclaimer : j'ai vendu 2gox BTC pour 1,4 BTCOui visiblement le prix varie de 60% à 90% depuis le début de l'affaire, au gré du sentiment et des infos que reçoivent les gens. Si le protocole commence à être remis en question, le prix du bitcoin pourrait descendre bcp plus qu'il n'a descendu; de même si mtgox ferme; dans le deuxième cas j'en profiterai sans doute pour acheter des bitcoins |
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First he said that the payment was being hold, and then he said his account was suspended, and wasn't able to do a refund.
Not able to refund ? That the most dumb word I think. Paypal usually only limit the acc and they can't send or withdraw but still can refund payment. To solve the problem, user must provide proof of identity and address to paypal. I wonder why you trust newbie and he sell that btc very low Yeah I know, know allot when it comes with eBay and PayPal. Right away I figured he was as scammer. As for the Newbie part, not every noob is a scammer. luckily, I paid via Paypal, so Ill be protected. Payment To: michael Dzedzej (The recipient of this payment is Unverified) Seller's ID: mdzedzej Seller's Email: mfrasier795@yahoo.com The guy scam.s in the hope that the buyer will not charge back or will let the time allowed to charge back elapses?? Usually Scammers try to buy BTC by paying with Paypal with the intend to charge back |
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865
1247stFukbVxL8c6bYf5NWvaCR8p68EtTg
Thank you!
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I think that Teymos answer is very reasonable :
"I don't judge whether advertised services are scams or not. If I did, I'd probably have to ban ads from every mining hardware company and every gambling site, as these are often accused of being scams and are clearly very risky. That's why there's a disclaimer below ads.
MakeBTC looks like a Ponzi scheme, but if it works exactly as advertised, then I wouldn't call it a scam. It's more like gambling. Some people will make money, more people will lose money, and the house always wins. No one is being tricked into participating: the exact rules are listed on the front page. Now, there's probably a high risk that MakeBTC will just run away with the money at some point, but users, not me, will need to decide whether the potential rewards are worth this risk."
That is pretty close to how I feel about makeBTC; I think that in a lot of jurisdictions it would be illegal to use the term investment as used on the website but if makeBTC doesn't run away with the money it is more or so a gambling website; makeBTC has been run as advertised so far and the owner hasn't run with any money
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MTGox, le site de change historique est mourant. Cela fait plusieurs semaines qu'il y avait des soucis pour transférer des Bitcoins de son porte-feuille MTGox vers un porte-feuille externe. La semaine dernière le problème c'est amplifié, au point que MTGox a décidé de suspendre toute transaction en Bitcoin sortant de leur site le Vendredi 7 février. Aujourd'hui MTGox a annoncé que le problème de transaction est dû au protocole Bitcoin lui-même et qu'ils en discutent avec la Bitcoin Fondation. Il est expressément écrit dans leur communiquer qu'ils maintiennent la suspension des transactions sortante en Bitcoin jusqu'à ce que la Bitcoin Fondation résolve le problème. Le souci étant que cela fait un moment que la Bitcoin Fondation est au courant du problème et qu'ils l'ont déjà résolu. MTGox utilise un système de porte-feuille qui leur est propre et qui possède toujours la faille. En gros, MTGox est en train de demander à la Bitcoin Fondation de se pencher, gratuitement, sur leur système de porte-feuille et de résoudre le problème. Si vous avez de l'argent ou des Bitcoin sur MTGox, bonne chance pour les retirer. Il y a la possiblité de vendre vos goxBTC contre des vrais BTC ici : https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=455243.200Apparemment un des derniers échanges s'est fait à 15goxBTC pour 12BTC Si j'avais presque tous mes BTC bloqués sur Mtgox j'en vendrai certainement une bonne partie pour diminuer mon risque |
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how many btc has been sold on btc-e at 100$? that's crazy...
It is quite crazy! It happens once in a while on every market; I would guess that at least a few hundreds were sold at less than 200$ |
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The video is so funny  If people understood more how the financial system work, they would fight it more and ask for real money in exchange of their work and as a medium of exchange That beeing said, I sincerely hope that the 100BTC on mtgox isn't the only BTC you have, if you have some fiat you can buy back BTC at a discount; did you consider selling some of your mtgox BTC against real BTC? That is probably what I will do if I was in your situation https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=455243.200 apparently 12goxBTC for 10BTC recently |
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Why not use localbitcoins with a trusted buyer, breaking up your sell in 4-10 transactions?
20% less than market price is huge even if you bought the coins cheap or got them for free
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LTC? Ethereum?
Doomed from genesis.
And Bitcoin will turn very political [with China and Russia secretly hoarding it] later this year which will eventually be its downfall [in a few years].
The unfortunate and inherent problem with techies, which makes up 99.9% of this Forum, is that they understand very little about money and what it would take to build and distribute a successful global crypto-currency.
Your crypto logic is hence on the same linear fault as everyone else.
But don't worry, Wall Street will be here, as I predicted last year, within 1 to 2 quarters; to promptly relieve the computer guys from their acting jobs as bankers and monetary analysts.
And then the engineers will hopefully begin to understand what's really happening here and what a global currency is supposed to be.
Good luck to you and LTC, and Ethereum, etc....
Regards...
You need the techies, but you also need the marketing guys and the financiers, mtgox should have use more techies and more financiers.. Bitcoin will become huge when the dollar will crash and when the Yen, € and £ will also drop in value sharply; it shouldn't be too far away, 6months? One year? Maybe two years? Bitcoin also need to become user friendly and safe, having a tech giant getting involve in Bitcoin and a few big institutions creating easy wallets could obviously help a lot If a Hong Kong bank was to create an Alt coin backed by gold it could get a lot of traction but it doesn't mean Bitcoin will disappear |
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Very good theories from the OP. I find it very difficult to believe that someone was so stupid that just accidentally set a huge sell order without price limit..
It definitely happens from time to time, you would think someone having 5000coins will never make the mistake but the truth it can happen, it is less likely than someone making a 1BTC mistake but it can happen in a sell off I don't think we will ever know for sure what happen but we cannot rule out the mistake, it is still the most probable explanation even if it seems weird |
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I think it will go down to 250$-450$ (wild range I know) and when it bounces back for good, it will eventually reach new highs within a year
Let's be bold and try to predict accurately : it will not go down more than 375$ and it will bounces back before the end of 2014 at 3-4000$ a pop when the dollar will start crashing down
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Cela dit, si on augmente les prélevement retraite, ils pourront les utiliser pour payer la dette future Les retraites ne sont pas financés par les cotisations retraite donc les retraites représentent une dette supplémentaire de plus avec la dette publique et la dette sociale |
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It is pretty funny how everyone is happy that the price is decreasing because it means they can get their hands on more bitcoins; these corrections allow a lot of people to stack BTC up, when will the next rise in price take place? This summer? Next winter?
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I am north of Stockholm (Arlanda Airport) and I can only do pick up. I still have the antminer, I sell at 800Kronas, you can always make a lower offer
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Bitcoin is easy you either own it or not (that is what Peter Schiff says about gold), todays price at 650$ can still seem expensive to some but it looks quite cheap to me; it could still go down which would allow a lot of believers to get their hands on cheaper coins, people who will hold them tight and build the community so BTC price mini crash may be a good news
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Level selling changes a little. Price ranges between 0.01 to 0.5 BTC per level. Minimal level to sell is 0.1. So the bonus won't be lower then 50% and bank will grow faster. I wish you all the best.
It is very good that at least half the deposit is used for bank but you could allow bonuses of less than 50% without taking more than 50% of a deposit to pay for the level sell, exemple : A sells for 70%, B deposit 1BTC and get 5/7 * 30% bonus, bank increases of 0.5 Next bank could arrive within a week Play responsibly guys, this is a pyramid.. |
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1247stFukbVxL8c6bYf5NWvaCR8p68EtTg
I thought you were giving hints when you answer "your whole number is incorrect" and "good try" but after trying to find a logic behind it I concluded that you weren't, good luck all!
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