Absolutely true. And again, underscores the point that who is the CEO, and where he resides, is pretty much irrelevant. Personally, I don't see any concerns regarding this business other than "Sonny has a shady history," and no assuagions other than "He's not a majority stakeholder, and is not in charge." Almost everything else that has been brought up, from corporate registration in another state, to a CEO residing overseas, to buying parts from other companies, to even not having a public address for their manufacturing facility, as pretty much normal business practice.
On the other hand, Inaba HAS made things worse by feeding the trolls, and refusing to answer simple questions with just "yes" or "no," instead posting long tirades about tinfoil hats and such. This might sound weird, but one of the best customer reps examples I've seen on this forum was from MtGox's Mark, and Bitfloor's Roman. Way too many others are as bad as Inaba.

^^^ What??? 

Yes I have.

Here's what I found:
http://smallbusiness.findlaw.com/incorporation-and-legal-structures/conducting-business-as-a-corporation-or-an-llc-out-of-state.html

Yes, you are right, many types of businesses would need to register. But the relevant parts here that may exempt BFL are
Sales conducted through independent contractors in that state
and
A company that conducts all its business across state lines, such as transporting goods from one state to another, is engaged in interstate business. Consequently, the company does not need to qualify to conduct business in the foreign state or pay state taxes.

So, maybe they are not actually "doing business" in Missouri, but just have their assembly "plant" there, with their business being global, and thus maybe they don't need to register with Missouri specifically. Or maybe you're right, and they are registered, but either under another name, or under a different list that you can't search. Or maybe they are doing something illegal, whether intentional or not.

They should be registered with A state. Their registration number is 2011-000606261. Here's the link to their state registration:
https://wyobiz.wy.gov/Business/FilingDetails.aspx?eFNum=149144214231010201167112190255028042109060235081

Any business they do, regardless of actual location, is registered through the state in which they are incorporated. Any taxes and reports of income or expenses they have, regardless of where in the world they work, get reported and paid by that corporate entity to the state it is registered in. No other state/ county, or other registrations are required. As long as their LLC pays federal taxes to US, and state taxes to the state where it is registered, no other taxes, licenses, or registrations are required.
I know corporate law (somewhat, since it was part of my education). Moreover, I just went through the process of registering an LLC, and doing related tax search, myself. Stop pulling at straws.


And BTW, I am not defending BFL against legitimate questions, do not trust BFL myself, and am not willing to put my own reputation behind them. I am only answering questions that have already been answered previously (note I don't say "they are such and such," I say "Sonny claimed such and such," pointing out that we still hate to take them at their word). And I am pointing out or reffuting information that is incorrect, don't make sense, or is only based on speculation. It's all I usually ever do.

Typically the President and/or managers run the day-to-day duties of companies, while CEOs are usually only in charge of making big decisions, and sometimes even work for multiple companies.
But, regardless, let's say Inaba answers that, no, Nasser is not "in-house," does live in Paris while communicating over Skype, and does not run day to day duties of the company. What would be your next question/statement? I'm curious as to where the "Aha!" comes in.

These were things stated on the forum and the interviews. The only reason for digging is that forum posts get quickly covered by other noise.


Incorrect. A business license is not required, especially if the business is owned by a single person, since the person reports income and pays taxes directly. In BFL's case, their LLC  is the entity that is registered with the state and the entity that pays taxes. I don't know if BFL LLC has a tax ID (I would expect so), but tax IDs are not something freely given out by businesses, since they are like Social Security numbers (at my work, we are required to shred any documents with business TID's when we throw them away). So that IS their "license." Also, don't forget that the whole purpose of getting an LLC in another state is so that your business can pay taxes in a state where tax laws are more favorable, and not in the state where business is conducted.

I'm tempted to fly out there myself on my own dollar, partially to do my own research before I make the purchase, and partially just to satisfy my curio city about what a BTC hardware business looks like (plus I wouldn't mind meeting some of the people). However, since I have already "defended" BFL from some of the more unsubstantiated accusations out there, I doubt anything I report back will be of any value.
I'm sure any one of the BTC developers will work though. Unless you want to remain secretive regarding visuals, I'm sure a live video stream of your facilities will work as well, and will be way cheaper than airfare.

* Who owns BFL?
Inaba said it's a shareholder owned LLC, and that Sonny is not the majority shareholder

* Who runs BFL?
Inaba and Sonny said that Nasser is the CEO, and Chris, Sonny's stepfather, is the President

* Why does BFL not have a business license?
Inaba confirmed that BFL is a registered Limited Liability Corporation, registered in Wyoming. What license are you asking for?

I'm not shilling for BFL, it's just that all this has already been answered.

Considering BFL repeatedly stated that their parts manufacturing is outsourced, that the reason for delays in spring were due to inventory problems from their parts providers, and that they just now finally got their own Pick-and-Place machine to assemble the electronics instead of doing everything by hand, I'm not sure how anyone would assume that they make their electronics and processors in-house, by themselves.
Regarding the current ASICs chips, if they found compatible ones from Altera, great! If their CEO used his engineering skills to design one from scratch, and they commissioned another company to make them for BFL, even if that company is Altera, great too! I fail to see what the evil conspiracy is, since there hasn't been proof one way or the other as to who did the ASIC design. Nor does it really matter, does it?


How do you know he is the 'head honcho?' How do you know Sonny is not just the main rep, the guy who does the talking and assembling of a business group, and, say, Chris is not the 'head honcho' who runs the business from behind the scene?

Why is Nasser living in France relevant? Is something wrong about having your engineer/CEO doing things from far away? How is that different from other companies that outsource?



I'm pretty sure everyone is already aware of quantum computers, and that we likely won't have any working ones that could hash for at least another 10 years. Why is this relevant? (BTW, to me this only proves that Nasser knows his chip hardware and cryptography really well).


There's still no conclusive proof that there is a dark side. The only thing that was conclusively proven is that Sonny has a criminal history, and that BFL is somewhat secretive about their business practices, which have since been exposed, albeit in Sonny's own words. As for Inaba's openness and him dodging your questions, first, you're not even asking the right questions. A lot of them are irrelevant, and have no bearing on whether BFL can deliver a product that does what they say it will, and for the price they charge. And second, judging by the way you ask, you have already clearly indicated that you do not trust the person you are actually asking. So, why would Inaba, or anyone else, answering your questions convince you, if you don't trust them to begin with?

Not offhand. It's in one of the other two BFL related threads. I'm on a tablet, so can't browse them quickly, but a screenshot was posted right to the thread.

That's a corporate registration. They are rarely in the same state where the actual business resides, and are typically set up in states with best tax laws and lowest annual fees.
As for the business, check the address. On good street view, you can actually see their names on the side of the building where they do their thing.

I think I'm going to have to make some calls, or even some visits, before making my purchase. Inaba, yeah, he may be a crazy troll, but your lack of simple answers are making me uncomfortable, too 

Mine is set for that time zone too, because I need to match up forum posts to block chain transaction times.

The reason I'm not a fan of PGP is because you need to install separate software, create separate keys, upload them to key servers, and keep backups of your keys. These are all things you already have to do with Bitcoin, anyway (or your BTC wallet service does for you). Blockchain.info and the Satoshi clients provide very simple signing already as part of your wallet. It's not as prominent, but I am hoping that will change, with big SIGN and VERIFY buttons clearly visible. At that point, since you'll be buying and selling shares from your wallet, anyway, which already includes copy/pasting long address strings, copy/pasting signature strings will not be too big of a step from it. If people can learn how to copy/paste email addresses, and now how to copy/paste BTC addresses, I expect they can learn to copy/pasting a text string and click a SIGN button.
Worst case, Bitcoin gets popular enough that btcsign: becomes as popular as mailto:, and clicking on it launches your default Bitcoin wallet, with a verification string ready to be copy/pasted into a field in the browser.
The other major benefit of BTC signing over PGP is that you can't pay, or receive payments from, PGP keys. Thus you need a system that stores a whole set of account related info, like payment address, PGP keys, and likely user names and passwords. With this setup, all that is needed is your BTC address.

P. S. It was thanks to MPEX that I started thinking about this setup, and am hoping someone can code something like this. With this available, there won't be any need for MPEX.

Nope. Don't like MPEX at all. I think being able to sign text using Bitcoin clients is very easy, and will likely become as simple and prominent as signing checks is now. But that is assuming the "normal" people you are referring to are Bitcoin users.

Not sure why you would need a browser plugin. The software can just give you a message to sign as plain text, then once you use your own Bitcoin client to sign it, can verify it using it's own signature verification service (own Bitcoin, or third party)

If you are suggesting replacing GLBSE, technically we don't need anything decentralized. The company issuing the stock can be in charge of selling and managing it, too.

My idea was to create open source software that runs on the company's server, and sells/tracks shares there. Since we can sign messages using out BTC addresses, the whole implementation can be very easy:

Shares listed on the site, using trading software.
You purchase shares using a Bitcoin address. That address is now registered by the software as the owner of those shares.
Dividends get automatically paid out to that address.
Selling the shares back to the company involves selecting the option, and sending a confirmation signed by the BTC address, which upon confirmation receives the money.
Selling/transferring the shares to someone else involves setting up a transfer and signing a confirmation using the BTC address, at which point the new address is registered as the owner.

No need for centralized exchanges, or even tracking names and registrations. Just a private, company-owned ledger that keeps track of which shares belong to which addresses.

So, the summary I have so far:
Sonny Vleisides, the guy who was involved in the $25mil scam, is a high level executive, but without majority holding, and thus no control of the company.
Chris Vleisides, his stepfather, is the president of the company.
Andrew Vleisides, Sonny's cousin, registered the domain, and I guess likely runs the website.
Nasser Ghoseiri is the CEO of the company.
The company bought a defunct corporate name, and is incorporated in a different state (which are both understandable, since to register a new corp costs ~$150 instead of $50, and likely Missouri has shit corporate laws).
Most of the money sent to the company is converted to USD right away, and resides in a business checking account.
The corporation is using standard financial controls, including multiple signatures required on checks.

Did I get anything wrong?

Wish churches were treated as what they were: for-profit psychic services that use fear mongering to sell shitty products, who use charities as fronts for their business.