I opt for a crash. Price is purely dictated by chinese market. There was no adoption, no major company support and still the price trippled in just a month. China goes up and sudenly all other markets follow without thought. If they decide to sell, for whatever reason, whole world will sell in panic.
And that makes sense because? Chinese adopt it but there is no adoption...lol  At best the Chinese are doing what everyone else in the bubble is doing; buy Bitcoins in the hope they make a profit. It is not adoption as a currency. At worst, well I have a paper I'm finishing on this topic. Synopsis: The Bitcoin 'exchanges' and the 'market' they supposedly create are a fraud. Price action is driven by non existent trades on the platforms. The manipulation is now so rampant across competing exchanges that the entire legitimate trading activity of the exchanges is drowned by a sea of fakery. There isn't a single exchange I examined for this research that isn't engaged in this activity. evidence please |
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im trying out coingig. haven't made a sale yet though unfortunately so i cant really report much on the experience  |
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To make an analogy, if bitcoin was a car you now have learned how to drive it. If you want to take the next step and learn how the car actually works, this is probably the best resource for that. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lx9zgZCMqXE of course you dont need to know how a car works inorder to drive it so its totally up to you. |
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Now am beginning to see how the whole entire thing is suppose to work.
Very Interesting and Smart
it is an amazing invention. dont be discouraged by the rude people. let us know if you have any more questions. it is a lot to try to wrap ones head around. |
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would anyone mind helping me build up some reputation?
You forgot to tag that as a joke, I certainly missed it. that seems to be where most of bitmits business is moving.  do you know something about coingig that i don't and probably ought? |
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I dont understand the advantage of using tor. unless of course you wanted to, in addition to hiding information about your transaction, actually hide the fact that you are participating in the bitcoin system entirely. Wouldn't the coinjoin facilitator just publish a public key that all other participants could use to encrypt their transaction?
If you don't use tor (or another similar network) then the peers you're talking to could record your IP, which you presumably want to keep private too. I mostly pointed it out to head off comments like "OMG YOUR PEERS CAN RECORD YOUR IP!" ... yes, they can, other things fix that. This is intended to address privacy in the blockchain.  Supposing you did nothing to obfuscate your ip, would the peers you are talking to have any means by which to link your ip address to the outputs of the transactions that belonged to you? or would they simply be recording the fact that your ip address participated in that particular coinJoin session? |
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I dont understand the advantage of using tor. unless of course you wanted to, in addition to hiding information about your transaction, actually hide the fact that you are participating in the bitcoin system entirely. Wouldn't the coinjoin facilitator just publish a public key that all other participants could use to encrypt their transaction?
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it opens the door for an unbalanced range and non-optimal strategy. welcome to the forums peter joseph  |
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hey guys since it looks like coingig is going to be the new bitmit would anyone mind helping me build up some reputation?
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ill concede that you are probably right about all of these things. the thing is that you might not be, and the chance that i am wrong about what i believe about gold is much slimmer than the chance that i am wrong about what i believe about bitcoin. so for example i dont think that either gold or bitcoin are going to crash down to a value of 0 but if i was to be wrong about that it would be much more likey that bitcoin would crash down to 0 than gold, relatively speaking. in my eyes this makes gold safer and if its safety and security that you are after than gold is the best bet.
with that being said i dont own very much gold because im young and ultimate safety is not an appealing promise for me. Imagine however that you are an old retired grandma who has earned more than enough to survive the rest of her life, is she really going to want to jump on the btc rollercoaster, even if the general trend is up? what good does becoming a millionaire do her, she just wants to bake cakes and watch soap operas and be secure in her ability to do those things.
You make one mistake gold DOES NOT stay with the owner , at war's! Gold does not loose value but you loose the gold! Thats why bitcoin is superior over gold. bitcoins can be stored in your brain , so nobody can proof you have them or detect it when robbing you! with gold , a kalasnikov at your head and you will not keep it. with bitcoins even killing you will not give them your bitcoins! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4QFErOdTag explained. i dont think gold and bitcoin are so different in this respect. the only way the government can confiscate your gold is by sending goons around to hold your feet to the fire. why do you suppose someone who is under such duress would be more or less likely to give up one than the other? *edit* i suppose it would be harder to hide your gold coins than your bitcoins. still i think my argument applies as to why grandma would prefer gold to bitcoin, assuming world war 3 doesn't happen. |
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ill concede that you are probably right about all of these things. the thing is that you might not be, and the chance that i am wrong about what i believe about gold is much slimmer than the chance that i am wrong about what i believe about bitcoin. so for example i dont think that either gold or bitcoin are going to crash down to a value of 0 but if i was to be wrong about that it would be much more likey that bitcoin would crash down to 0 than gold, relatively speaking. in my eyes this makes gold safer and if its safety and security that you are after than gold is the best bet.
with that being said i dont own very much gold because im young and ultimate safety is not an appealing promise for me. Imagine however that you are an old retired grandma who has earned more than enough to survive the rest of her life, is she really going to want to jump on the btc rollercoaster, even if the general trend is up? what good does becoming a millionaire do her, she just wants to bake cakes and watch soap operas and be secure in her ability to do those things.
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Actually, there is one thing the Chinese admit to loving more than both saving and gambling: Gold.
Thankfully many of them are starting to see that bitcoin is superior to gold in every single aspect, and their government can't steal it from them.
I foresee both China and India holding more than 30% of the planet's bitcoin each before 2016. The way USSA regulations are starting to look; we'll probably only hold about 1% by then.
bitcoin is not superior to gold in every single aspect. gold is a much safer more secure store of value. it has thousands of years of history as a reliable store of value, bitcoin can make no similar claim. a flaw in bitcoin could be found tomorrow bringing the value crashing down to ~ zero or a crypto that is superior in every way could be invented that would steal ~ all of bitcoins market share. bitcoin is for transferring value and speculating, gold is for making your wealth safe and secure. both very useful for what they do but different utilities entirely. |
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I don't think its realistic to think of bitcoins fungability being ruined, maybe for a time in a some sort of a transitional stage but it would be a short lived battle that would quickly settle with bitcoin becoming anonCoin or govCoin. You simply arnt going to have mixed coins and clean coins floating around on the same blockchain with different market values and different utility, because if there was enough support to make these redlisting databases effective the government would simply crack down on miners who processed redlisted coins. If it does become govCoin than someone would instantly create a new altcoin where the rules of the protocol dictated that some form of coinJoin or coinSwap was necessary inorder to get your transaction included in the blockchain. This might be the ultimate goal of the people in government/banking who are turning their evil sauron eye on us because they could outlaw anonCoin and say "you have no excuse anymore if you want to use decentralized digital currency just use bitcoin, look we let it stay legal" Still i would say that even if they did manage to kill what we traditionally think of as bitcoin in this manner satoshi would still have something to be very proud of. even if they can track and micro manage bitcoin, they still cant print it . |
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can someone explain to me what would be the purpose of incorporating tor? what benefits would that offer that wouldn't already be achieved by coinjoin?
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theymos you rock! here is some more donation for you to generously match transaction id: a2ce643656a516784dbb32547408831226b3fc737552377cfd64cc8066fff850 |
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They will do it in two ways. The velvet glove, and the steel fist.
The velvet glove is that they will tempt greedy bitcoin users, developers, entrepreneurs, and spokespeople to acquiesce in the formation of a "safe" bitcoin, which allows them influence and control through requiring their blessing, and giving assurances that all government laws will be followed, from those relating to child porn to drug smuggling to tax evasion. The general public (sheep) will heave a big sigh of releif, and mass adoption will follow.
This will provoke a response by those bitcoiners who refuse to participate, develop their own clients, or even a forked blockchain. After some time, users of this "dark, unregulated, anonymous, and illegal" bitcoin will suddenly start having their front doors kicked in by SWAT teams, and will be charged with enabling all manner of horrific crimes.
Then the real revolution begins.
i think this is a pretty good analysis in one sense, and it may be accurate, but i think it overlooks something important. The government isnt ACTUALLY concerned about child porn or and less than you might imagine about drug smuggling and tax collecting. the real threat that bitcoin represents to them is its potential for undermining their monopoly over the issuance of currency. this is where they get the vast majority of their power. taxes are a drop in the bucket compared to the power the get from the printing press. what you have outlined above does not solve this problem, it does not allow them to reclaim their monopoly over currency issuance. What ever solution they attempt will probably have to be ultimately aimed at reclaiming their most important monopoly. |
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what you all think of this one www.coinfliper.com ? i plan to make a gambling website with this It is mis-spelled |
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The problem is that they don't have a world government. So bitcoin infrastructure could always flee to more bitcoin friendly jurisdictions. so for the sake of discussion, lets say we had a world government, or the us government had the leverage to sufficiently twist the arms of every other government on the planet in order to gain compliance. In this case there would be two possible attack vectors that i can think of. They could outlaw the production of CPU's without hardware back doors and then search through peoples computers for bitcoin activity or they could force people to purchase licenses to use encryption and monitor the isps for anyone who violated encryption licensing laws.
Neither of those things are very likely, so whats more important to talk about than what they could do to outright kill it is what they will probably do to harm it. Instead of trying to kill it out right they will try to strangle it slowly with regulation. they will make it more and more difficult to get it in and out of fiat by creating more and more invasive regulations for exchanges. They may create regulations that force businesses that accept bitcoins to reject mixed coins and/or relay information about the transactions to a centralized database. Or they may even make it illegal for businesses to accept bitcoin as payment.
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let the little men in their little silos hatch their little schemes. who cares. if this thing does get implemented than we will need to mix our coins with a system like coinjoin. if the government is able to put enough pressure on merchants to force them to reject mixed coins, than i will still mix my coins anyway even if it makes them worth less and then i'll just buy my toilet paper and shaving creme on the silkroad 8.0 with mixed coins.
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