I think they have some similarities, I did not have the time to think it over ![Grin](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/grin.gif) ![](https://ip.bitcointalk.org/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.heritage.org%2Ffederalbudget%2Fcharts%2F2012%2Fincreases-us-debt-limit-680.jpg&t=664&c=fgq4og3cYAmsoA)
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Sorry, but history would indicate otherwise. Every bubble be it fiat driven or not follows this same cycle. This cycle can certainly be fueled by interest rate manipulation, but is ultimately driven by emotion.
There have been, and will continue to be bubbles with Bitcoin along the way (and it is immune from interest rate manipulations).
Human nature simply does not change.
Which phase of emotional cycle are we in ![Wink](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/wink.gif) ![](https://ip.bitcointalk.org/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.heritage.org%2Ffederalbudget%2Fcharts%2F2012%2Fincreases-us-debt-limit-680.jpg&t=664&c=fgq4og3cYAmsoA)
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I will laugh when you are here[/center] This chart only applies to fiat money driven bubbles, where peak is the highest interest rate and tight monetary policy, and the valley is the lowest interest rate and loose monetary policy Bitcoin is a world currency, any single central bank can not shape such a price chart, only some internal problems of bitcoin itself could affect its price development
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The reason all of the previous bubbles burst:
1. Increased supply entering the market later when demand has been fulfilled 2. FED tighten the money supply
For bitcoin, non of these prerequisites exist. 1 is not possible in nearest 4 years 2 is not possible before 2015
And even FED tightens, it might not have any effect, since other currencies will chase bitcoin anyway
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Avalon's ASICs Invented BitCoins demise Technologarchy
When the generation 1 miners purchase the bulk of gen 3, they will be bitcoins' oligarchy. The beauty of bitcoin is that it is decenteralized. Avalons price structure for Gen3 doesn't help bitcoin. In fact it does the opposite, IMO.
I have noticed, any system, no matter how distributed it is from the beginning, it will eventually centralize, and when it died, it will be distributed again, a little bit like chemical reaction -- concentration and dissipation
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Avalon will deliver up to 300+600+1000=1900 units , that is 125TH, and there are 3600 coins per day, remove the existing 25TH and upcoming 60T of ASICminer hash power, each avalon's return is around 1.2 BTC per day when all the machines are deployed, less than 90 days ROI is guaranteed even for the last buyer
Although BFL remained as a big variable, they might not be able to deliver in large scale before June
This is not the "Avalon batch 3 will be profitable" thread, so as much as I want to pull your numbers apart, I won't. But my original post includes reasons why I think that the 3 month ROI that you presume may easily become "never". Just a simple asumption that no other ASICs showed up in 2-3 months time frame. Avalon has a short time window where they dominate the retail market, during this period they could have a good ROI time. If BFL can deliver, their pricing is significantly more attractive
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If US regulate bitcoin more, then bitcoin will flourish in other countries that welcome the currency, and they might miss the best chance to escape that debt spiral with a type of honest money
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Avalon will deliver up to 300+600+1000=1900 units , that is 125TH, and there are 3600 coins per day, remove the existing 25TH and upcoming 60T of ASICminer hash power, each avalon's return is around 1.2 BTC per day when all the machines are deployed, less than 90 days ROI is guaranteed even for the last buyer
Although BFL remained as a big variable, they might not be able to deliver in large scale before June
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My experience is that in 1-2 years VRM will die before GPU dies
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Actually I'm worrying about this summer the fiat money system will run into big trouble, where they could no longer solve the economy problem with more and more money printing and higher and higher debt, the break of confidence at top level is just a matter of time
If that happened, the price of bitcoin will be just like bankers add new money with lots of 0s
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Goes on until the people selling the ASICs need to pay their bills, and sell all those bitcoins for the USD or EUR or CHY or whatever their suppliers and taxmen demand.
Makes some sense! I suppose that most of the ASIC miners today are holding their coins (they are the true supporters of bitcoin and foresee a price of at least $1K), this is enough to create a shortage of available bitcoin at exchanges, and ASIC companies are also bitcoin enthusiast, they won't sell all of their earned coins to pay back their bill either, so generally the spending is always much less than income in bitcoin's perspective
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Avalon team ask for 88 BTC for their mining rig, and they only accept BTC payment. In order to get those BTC, people who do not have so much BTC will have to buy from exchage, and this pushed the exchange price up, and Avalon team will receive at least 88000 BTC in sale
This proved my theory before: A business who only accept BTC payment will become the strong support for BTC exchange price, if their products are highly demanded
But this case is a little bit special, people buying the avalon machine are hoping for a quick ROI, and the return is BTC. Asic mining equipment manufacturing maybe is the only business in BTC economy that can generate such a high return that attract so many investors
Then here is the question: If those ASIC mining companies are continuously raise the price of their mining rig for each new generation products, and they only accept BTC, then the BTC price will continously rise due to shrinking supply of BTC, and the rising price of BTC will create higher and higher demand for ASIC mining equipment.....all self sustained loop, is this long term sustainable? For how long?
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Can a kind soul take measurements of the unit ? (height, width, depth) It's not yet on the Wiki.
Thanks
45cm X 39cm X 17cm 17.72" X 15.35" X 6.69"
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What's the difference with existing implementation: By install a copy of game you create an online account, you have to charge the account to play
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Have you first tried to disable that cgminer-monitor script or increase the check interval and see what will happen?
I also had at least one restart per day, I reduced the check frequency from 5 to 15, and it is stable since then
System->scheduled tasks */15 * * * * /usr/bin/cgminer-monitor
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we discussed batch3 price for a long time.
personally, i do think this is a reasonable price.
batch#1: 1300USD + your trust, batch#2: 1500USD + your trust, batch#3 = ?
why batch 1 and batch2 customers will enjoy such a low USD price and extremly high profit? because they put their valuable trust on us.
last September, most of you think we have little chance to win, or could be a crappy scam, you don't buy.
this January, considerable people think we take Jeff down or just spent 400K to make a prototype, you don't buy.
now, everything on track, machines delivered to your hands are only a matter of time. you want to buy them at a same price or something like 2000USD.
OK, please tell me, what is the price of people most valuable things "trust" should be? 500USD? no, 5000USD at least.
as a core developer, i look upon all Avalons as my son. i will send them to who believe us, not the faithless or buzzard.
Nice statement! Batch 1 and Batch 2 orderers are risk takers, now there are much less risk And the interesting thing is, Avalon only accepting BTC caused a self-driven market demand for BTC, this is exactly lots of BTC true believers hoped: A BTC economy which is less related on exchange price. This is a totally new phenomenon, how to evaluate such a move's effect? It's a bit like a chinese company make a nice product that everyone on the planet want , but they only accept chinese RMB, so the only option for outsiders is to exchange their currency for RMB, and that will strengthen the RMB's exchange rate (of course the RMB exchange rate is fixed by chinese government, this is not a good example, but you get the idea...)
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my results: [Elapsed] => 83792 [MHS av] => 71481.37 [Found Blocks] => 0 [Getworks] => 1493 [Accepted] => 1382251 [Rejected] => 7422 [Hardware Errors] => 2172 [Utility] => 989.77 [Discarded] => 2887 [Stale] => 190 [Get Failures] => 1 [Local Work] => 1462331 [Remote Failures] => 96 [Network Blocks] => 166 [Total MH] => 5989585917.9822 [Work Utility] => 1002.88 [Difficulty Accepted] => 1390275.00000000 [Difficulty Rejected] => 7422.00000000 [Difficulty Stale] => 0.00000000 [Best Share] => 931191 I tried difficulty 64, utility dropped to 19, and then difficulty 32, utility back to 32, so I guess it is not setting related Before, when I run a 5970 rig, when I started to get a 10% of Hardware Errors in cgminer, that GPU would die in a month, possibly VRM failure, so I don't know in this case what this large error indicate It is nice that AVALON is very modulized, even one of the miner totally toasted, it will only affect 1/24 of hash power
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I remember that someone discussed before, going from a 110nm process to 65nm process in principle won't generate a 80% increase in efficiency, the best estimate is around 50%. There was a possibility that Avalon had an unefficient design, then BFL might gain another 30% efficiency by using a better design
In principle going from 110nm to 65nm reduces power consumption by 65% (1-(65/110)**2 because power efficiency is proportional to the inverse of the square of the feature size). But the process node is not everything. Consider ASICMINER for example: they have chips that are more power efficient than Avalon, despite the worse process node (respectively 130nm vs 110nm). ASICMINER does 167 Mhash/Joule vs Avalon doing only 150 Mhash/Joule. Check this: However, I must warn you (Inaba), don't place trust in the wrong people and what they tell you; for when that moment comes you won't able to meet the advertised specifications, at no real fault of you own besides ignorance since you really believed BFL. Be ready to take the spear to the chest as you were their spoke person. I wish you the best of luck and hope BFL can ship on time for when that time comes this forum can go back into the ol' days of competitive spirit of reducing power consumption and increasing hashrate of each others product.
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price increased to $15,000 from $1500 month ago, crazy ![Roll Eyes](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/rolleyes.gif)
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I think mostly related to network difficulty, market participants are now almost certain that ASIC mining equipment will reach end user in large scale and the difficulty will skyrocketing. Historically difficulty and price have close relationship
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