I don't see what isn't democratic about the Bitcoin network, you acquire the support of majority hashing power and the minority has the choice to just follow or start their own network. That is well, democracy in such a clear way that I couldn't even think of a better example of real democracy.
A majority of miners can't change the network rules. If every miner chose to increase the block reward from 50 BTC to 100 BTC, they would all just be ignored by everyone else. Your client applies the fixed rules of the network no matter what other people do. Far from being a disappointing example of its nondemocratic nature I would suggest this just affirms its alignment to the democratic spirit, in terms of transparency and fairness etc.; not giving advantage to any particular interest group or class ( e.g. miners ) even if they constitute a majority of participants. And it is the real world context - the freedom to participate rather than being coerced into this or that - and the spirit behind the system we should keep in mind isn't it, rather than arguing over semantics just for the sake of argument? Something that we can help the common people feel good about in supporting and participating in... rather than turning a lot of them off with the narrow and/or belligerent and/or agenda driven views of this or that group or class ( e.g. libertarians ). This will be my last word on this particular subject... perhaps.... I retain my assumed right of free speech and free association. ![Wink](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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What bitcoin is: Honest, strict, free of coercion, voluntary, regulated by market consumers (a free market), sovereign, without entitlement of equality between users ect.
@Portnoy: Can you please point to an existing democracy that can by described by even one of these terms? I can point to many. I will only choose one to make the point: My girlfriend's book club. Do you and hazek think that "democratic" is a term that should only refer to the political governance of nation states? lol If the book club has a ruler(s) it can't be described by any of the adjectives I listed. It has no ruler. No central authority. It is democratic like bitcoin.
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"Democratic" is a fine enough word to describe what the bitcoin experiment is all about. You can talk until you're blue in the face to try and change the meaning of the word based on others misuse of it, but, I suggest, it will still represent those positive qualities, already mentioned, to those with a reasonable education in the English language. That's your problem right there. You need a reasonable education in Latin, not English. Demos - people, kratos - to rule i.e. the rule of the people, majority rule! It comes from the Greek. And that is the etymology and origin of the English term, not an exact definition. Demos means "common people" as opposed to an elite, who's rule, I am sure you would agree, is less desirable... since it is what we have now and it is not very fair now is it? i.e. nothing like Bitcoin.
Yup, nothing at all like bitcoin. ![Roll Eyes](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/rolleyes.gif) And not all democracies operate on the 51% "first past the post" voting system. Look up words and concepts like "proportional representation" and "quorum" for a few examples. I don't mention these to typify bitcoin but just point out there is more to "democracy" than your limited understanding of the term.
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Bitcoin in my mind is definitely democratic, in the sense of what democracy is supposed to be.
I'm baffled by this logic. Suppose to be... why call it democratic then? He means, perhaps, that some people misuse the term. Do you call stuff blue that isn't blue but you think is what blue is suppose to be?
Some people call things blue which aren't really blue. Does that mean we should stop using that word for things which are actually blue? If "democratic" isn't what it's suppose to be...
"Democratic" is a fine enough word to describe what the bitcoin experiment is all about. You can talk until you're blue in the face to try and change the meaning of the word based on others misuse of it, but, I suggest, it will still represent those positive qualities, already mentioned, to those with a reasonable education in the English language.
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do you think money is democratic ?
wake up!
Isn't the point that bitcoin is meant to be better than the current fiat money? Something more... god forbid... democratic? ![Shocked](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/shocked.gif)
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What bitcoin is: Honest, strict, free of coercion, voluntary, regulated by market consumers (a free market), sovereign, without entitlement of equality between users ect.
@Portnoy: Can you please point to an existing democracy that can by described by even one of these terms? I can point to many. I will only choose one to make the point: My girlfriend's book club. Do you and hazek think that "democratic" is a term that should only refer to the political governance of nation states? lol
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IT's a difficult question to answer, because too many people have different ideas of what 'democratic' actually means.
Really? Many people? Has G.W. Bush and the neocons screwed up the English language that much that people don't know what is what? ![Undecided](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/undecided.gif) No, you don't know what it means. I am referring to the use of terms like "spreading democracy and freedom" to represent America's imperialistic adventures around the world. The US, regardless of who is at fault or who is the POTUS, is not a democracy and never has been...
I won't argue with that... but does that change the real meaning of "democracy" and "democratic"?
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hazek, I’m not even going to argue with you since you are completely detached from the public and display no empathy. All you want to do is nitpick because you perceive democracy as BAD BAD BAD. ![Cry](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/cry.gif) Is this some new kind of libertarian political correctness? Well, too bad most people approve of democracy. They will feel alienated if you describe Bitcoin as NOT democratic. If you want to just stagnate with this current circlejerk, I guess that’s okay though. What I and many other people think democratic describes is fairness, openness/transparency, equal rights, equal vote etc. I can guarantee you that advertising Bitcoin as non-democratic is one of the worst marketing strategies ever. +1
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hazek, this applies to Bitcoin: 2. pertaining to or characterized by the principle of political or social equality for all: democratic treatment. 2. Of or for the people in general; popular: a democratic movement; democratic art forms. As always, the libertards and aspergers in here are working hard to alienate the public from Bitcoin by making it a fringe movement. This IS what people think democratic is (and also what I think it is), and if you are too stubborn to deal with it, then leave it be. Show me evidence of socio economic or political equality promoted by Bitcoin? That is just one specific form "a" democracy can take. Just one form that does not define all possible forms. You know they put those numbers in front of those definitions in dictionaries to show that a word can have multiple definitions. Not all of them apply in all uses of the word. ![Wink](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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It's certainly not democratic. People don't vote. People do consenus or start their own network.
Could not the very fact of [voluntary] participation be seen as something like a vote in favor of that particular system over another system in which the person could also choose to support, through their participation, if they chose? That's anarchism or voluntarism or a society with some voluntary but mandatory and consistent rules, not a democracy. Anarchism and those others things can very well be democratic. One of the best ideals of many forms of anarchism, imo, is the concept of voluntary association, which is very democratic. A democracy is 51% telling 49% what can or can't they do.
That is just one specific form "a" democracy can take. Just one form that does not define all possible forms.
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What bitcoin is: Honest, strict, free of coercion, voluntary, regulated by market consumers (a free market), sovereign, without entitlement of equality between users ect.
@Portnoy: Can you please point to an existing democracy that can by described by even one of these terms? Precisely my point. Oh so that's your big point? Because a good real world example doesn't exist that nullifies the concept? lol
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IT's a difficult question to answer, because too many people have different ideas of what 'democratic' actually means.
Really? Many people? Has G.W. Bush and the neocons screwed up the English language that much that people don't know what is what? ![Undecided](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/undecided.gif)
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It's certainly not democratic. People don't vote. People do consenus or start their own network.
Could not the very fact of [voluntary] participation be seen as something like a vote in favor of that particular system over another system in which the person could also choose to support, through their participation, if they chose?
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I'm doing my damn best to avoid delusions being perpetuated in Bitcoin.
What bitcoin is: democratic
What bitcoin isn't: democratic
Blow job. ![Grin](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/grin.gif) Look... I can edit your posts so they say something completely different too. But can you read my edits to determine what point they are trying to get across? Many of the words and concepts hazek uses to describe bitcoin are synonyms for "democratic".
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I'm doing my damn best to avoid delusions being perpetuated in Bitcoin.
What bitcoin is: democratic
What bitcoin isn't: democratic
Good job. ![Grin](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/grin.gif)
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Lets try a little etymology: Democracy, from the Greek demokratia "popular government," from demos "common people," + kratos "rule, strength" Bitcoin is very much democratic. ![Tongue](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/tongue.gif) Yeah? Bitcoin is/has a government? ![Roll Eyes](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/rolleyes.gif) Do we need to get into definitions of "govern" as well. ![Roll Eyes](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/rolleyes.gif) A few synonyms should suffice: control, sway, influence, conduct, supervise, superintend. Bitcoin is supervised by the common people. Who are these "common people" allowed into that position? Whoever wants to participate... i.e. it is democratic.
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Lets try a little etymology: Democracy, from the Greek demokratia "popular government," from demos "common people," + kratos "rule, strength" Bitcoin is very much democratic. ![Tongue](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/tongue.gif)
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Anyone else seeing the same behavior?
I see it on my Win 7 x64 machine. Wasn't like that on version 0.6.1. Yup. I think I see it on my XP laptop as well.
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I'm going to be a young entrepreneur that solves problems for everyone. I leave Bitcoin only because it doesn't help address my real needs. Making money isn't that important after all.
Impressive realization for one so young. Some waste their whole lives chasing that "shit beyond their nose." But you'll do alright. I am sure we will be hearing from you again with your next project.
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