Read this and tell me if you believe Bitcoin will be a sound ETF investment for knowledgable players. Ways to identify a bad ETF investment
The following four tips can help investors determine whether an ETF is likely to fail:
1. Use caution when selecting ETF products that track narrow market segments; these products are considered risky and therefore require more evaluation.
2. Examine the ETF's trading volume. Volume is a good indicator of liquidity and investors' interest. If the volume is high, the product is typically more liquid.
3. Look at the assets under management, to determine how much money is being managed and to measure the fund's success.
4. Review the ETF's prospectus, to understand what type you are holding. An ETF is like any other investment company and will deliver a prospectus upon request. The prospectus will provide information such as fees and expenses, investment objectives, investment strategies, risks, performance, pricing and other information.
5. Finally, very new or very small ETFs sometimes trade inefficiently, resulting in wide spreads between their buy and sell prices or failure to track their benchmarks accurately. Wait for an ETF to gather at least $100 million in assets before you invest in it. #2 and #5 are about the only ones that really matter - crypto's are always a risky investment (at least right now). The risk/reward ratio is a factor, but trading volume is going to be what drives whether the big money gets involved. If COIN is only moving $100k per day in volume, none of the big boys are going to bother screwing with it. Agreed, 2 and 5 are the killers.
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their office is supposed to be in England not in Slovenia. The office rent is around of 3000-4000 euro/month because they are in 5 New Street Square, London. They wanted to be "trendy". I do not believe they have more than 2-3 employees for customer support and order processing(bank wires). They have 1 programmer + 7-8 "executives". I counted 7. The executive salaries must be BIG(over 10K per month). in summary, Bitstamp expenses should be around of 1 mil EURO per year due to their "executives" It's the registered office (London), it doesn't have to be their operational office, and probably isn't. Were did you get those 7 executives from? I only see 5 directors + 1 secretary (they don't have to be exec, and exec doesn't have to be official director). Exec's salary is just a guessing game. It could be zero, or minimal wage (if the exec is also a shareholder, in such case he'll get most through dividends), it could be performance-related salary etc. They'd have to be really stupid to sign up an exec for ridiculous fixed salary without tying it to performance. Do not forget the former Paypal exec. who come to Bitstamp last year. I am sure he is not paid with the minimal wage. He didn't leave Paypal for some pennies. Also, count the exec. trips. USA, Canada, whole Europe, Asia. These trips are not so cheap. I am sure all the exec.(even they are shareholders) had BIG salaries and not minimal wage. I'm not sure the "too big to fail" scenario works in this case. Execs lose their jobs all the time. The only difference between them and a regular Joe is that their CV helps them land somewhere else pretty quickly.
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At what point did I say that? It's good to bring up new things that help. I want you to do it and I want you to do it in any part of the forum that makes sense. I just see a lot of crap being restated in a new way post after post that's even hard for me to follow and I've watched the story from the beginning. Do you expect someone that doesn't know the story to be able to weed through all that and understand what's going on? I bet the real info there could be condensed into about 30 pages. Dree condensed the entire scam, hack and fraud history of Bitcoin into fewer pages than that! Now now, QuestionAuthority, you're making the same points I have. Soon, very soon, that will irritate someone, an' dey will teechify you da lessan!! You aren't going to answer every question in this whole thread, are you? That's kind of making you look a little kooky. Stop worrying about what people here think about you. They don't really matter anyway.
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And no one understands why I think it's crazy for a practicing professional to use this forum. There is only one Bitcoin business that I still completely respect. That business is BitPay because they refuse to visit this forum anymore.
I sure hope the FTC isn't really following that abortion of a thread. How embarrassing would that be?
Everyone here loves conspiracy theories so here's one for you. What if the people posting all of the weird crap in that thread and then claiming how they hate BFL are actually being paid by BFL to make all of the negative claims against them look like they are unfounded and being made by stupid kooks. Now that would be funny.
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This is a ridiculous idea. Let Bitcoin sink or swim as it exists now. Don't try to fix it. If it succeeds, we all own some and will profit. If it starts to fail we can always trade our btc for its successor. At this point, I don't even want it fixed. I think multiple coins may be necessary to do everything people want to do, one for anynomity, one for large international funds transfer, one for micropayments/tipping, and so on. The one that ends up being the most secure will end up taking the large dollar amount transfer business. Bitcoin can keep micropayments/tipping. Darkcoin may end up being the winner for privacy.
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Read this and tell me if you believe Bitcoin will be a sound ETF investment for knowledgable players. Ways to identify a bad ETF investment
The following four tips can help investors determine whether an ETF is likely to fail:
1. Use caution when selecting ETF products that track narrow market segments; these products are considered risky and therefore require more evaluation.
2. Examine the ETF's trading volume. Volume is a good indicator of liquidity and investors' interest. If the volume is high, the product is typically more liquid.
3. Look at the assets under management, to determine how much money is being managed and to measure the fund's success.
4. Review the ETF's prospectus, to understand what type you are holding. An ETF is like any other investment company and will deliver a prospectus upon request. The prospectus will provide information such as fees and expenses, investment objectives, investment strategies, risks, performance, pricing and other information.
5. Finally, very new or very small ETFs sometimes trade inefficiently, resulting in wide spreads between their buy and sell prices or failure to track their benchmarks accurately. Wait for an ETF to gather at least $100 million in assets before you invest in it.
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New ATH in 2015 around $5500
That would be crazy.. n every early adopter will be immensely profited by that if it happens. but as per what I feel.. even reaching 500$ would be a challenge in itself! It's funny that everyone is predicting an ATH while the price is plummeting because of the Bitstamp news. Have you actually looked at the price? The price decreased before this news and haven't moved much since this news. No, I don't look at it everyday anymore. Isn't it kind of unusual for one of the few major Bitcoin exchanges to be closed, even without a theft, and the price not move at all?
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It will blow the lid off btc, send it to the moon. I can see it legitimizing crypto for many who would never consider it before. They have a ton of btc to play with, they will move the price every day.
This won't really legitimize Bitcoin. It's kind of designed for exactly the opposite. This will allow people that don't want to get dirty by holding Bitcoin directly to get in on the action. Like when drug lords invest in a Vegas casino. The casino gets the drug money without having to sell a few kilos of dope. Investors like to have a few percent of their portfolio in super high risk high yield investments. If their risky investment succeeds it increases their bottom line a great deal. If it fails it doesn't drop their bottom line by very much. Buying riskier assets with a low correlation with each other is the classic diversification strategy. Bitcoin also acts like an inverse preformer which could allow hedging of less risky investments. Hedges aren't really legitimate investments. They are more like casino dice rolls that you're gambling will pay off if everything else in your portfolio tanks. Sounds like you don't follow the industry, then. Whether you like it or not, it will legitimize Bitcoin in an area where there is lots of money ready to move in. We'll see when the sales numbers come in.
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I doubt they have $5 million of their own cash profits sitting around waiting to cover this loss.
it's no problem, indeed, the price only $260 now, 18,000 BTC just $4,680,000, i think this is a piece of cake for bitstamp How is it a piece of cake? A financial report of Bitstamp showed they had 800k profit for a large period of time. Not sure 4-5 million is coverable by them. It's no problem because it's not real money it's just magic internet money.
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Good question but for me is more important who is around me, my family, spouse etc, than the fact where I at a given time. If I can be with my spouse in some special place, this is double benefit and blessing but without her it will be boring, really That's sweet. Are you a newly wed? After 20+ years of marriage my wife and I take separate vacations because when we take them together we don't have anyone to talk to. Oh no, that's really sad, you guys need to reconnect! I'm not an expert but maybe you should take a holiday together where you both do something new together and that will probably help keep things interesting and fresh? Just a thought? I can't take her because she gets pissed off when my girlfriend hogs the blankets and there's never enough counter space in hotel bathrooms for two women. Hey cheating is not acceptable, you either divorce or stay married and faithful, make a choice. Sounds to me like QuestionAuthority is describing an open marriage. How is that cheating? Well that depends on if I have/will get money as well. I mean I could wish (or save money and travel to) let's say Dubai. What do I do when I arrive there, broke? You could get a job at a building site, they love foreign workers, make sure you give your employers your passport straight away, they'll keep it safe for you I'd keep mine safe myself. I don't like the idea of my employer or anyone else for that matter having control over me. If I could be ANYWHERE in the world right now, I'd like to be in bed with Kate Upton. You're correct. Kind of pisses me off lately because her girlfriend is prettier than mine! Kate Upton - yum. You have good taste my man.
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At what point did I say that? It's good to bring up new things that help. I want you to do it and I want you to do it in any part of the forum that makes sense. I just see a lot of crap being restated in a new way post after post that's even hard for me to follow and I've watched the story from the beginning. Do expect someone that doesn't know the story to be able to weed through all that and understand what's going on? I bet the real info there could be condensed into about 30 pages. Dree condensed the entire scam, hack and fraud history of Bitcoin into fewer pages than that!
At this point: [...If you are discovering new information that truly can assist in a court case against them then contact the FTC, FBI or someone else. [...]
A forum is - by its very definition - a meeting point to discuss different viewpoint on a subject. If you want to condens it into a (peer reviewed / white-) paper, by all means go ahead. But don't surprise a healthy discussion because of it... Thank you, sbogovac, for making what was implicitly clear explicitly clear for some who cannot read properly. For someone by the name of "QuestionAuthority", I'd say he's doing a terrible job of living up to that moniker right about now. You are both misunderstanding MY point. The best and fastest way to get info to the people that can use it is to contact them directly. Take it to the FTC or whoever directly. Rehashing it here isn't going to get it to them as fast a phone call. If you need to brainstorm and all that that should be done here but the mods (you remember them, right? The people letting you have a thread in the wrong section) demanding it stay on topic and accidentally deleting a few on topics while wading through the mountain of shit shouldn't piss you off. <- this bit here is my point. Not all that other crap you're talking about. Edit: if you want to yell at me some more I'll be back later. I have to run out for a while.
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I don't think so. When someone grants you a consession then you need to be polite and play by their rules. Maxwell could have easily just moved the whole thread and left it at that. All of that extraneous shit doesn't need to be there to get the message across to newbies that BFL=BAD. If you are discovering new information that truly can assist in a court case against them then contact the FTC, FBI or someone else. Rehashing the same shit for 700+ pages won't help a newbie figure out BFL is a crook.
I know everyone in that thread is passionate about seeing justice, as you should be, but you still need to think about the reason for that thread and who is letting you do it.
So you, like some, don't want to discuss anything. Why are you here? At what point did I say that? It's good to bring up new things that help. I want you to do it and I want you to do it in any part of the forum that makes sense. I just see a lot of crap being restated in a new way post after post that's even hard for me to follow and I've watched the story from the beginning. Do you expect someone that doesn't know the story to be able to weed through all that and understand what's going on? I bet the real info there could be condensed into about 30 pages. Dree condensed the entire scam, hack and fraud history of Bitcoin into fewer pages than that!
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That's the answer I wanted, thanks. Then no one here has the right to bitch about a few posts being deleted or about collusion between forum mods and BFL. The thread should be moved but because the mods want to ensure relevant info reaches potential buyers they are allowing an off topic thread to remain but demand it serves it's purpose. How can anyone be upset with that?
Two can play at that game. If the mods have left it there (it being totally off-topic), why ironically exercise moderation duties in the interest of being "on-topic"? The fact that it is there is practically an admission of less stringent posting rules. But the point is people's posts that were on-topic to the thread itself were deleted, which was atypically excessive for such a thread. I don't think so. When someone grants you a consession then you need to be polite and play by their rules. Maxwell could have easily just moved the whole thread and left it at that. All of that extraneous shit doesn't need to be there to get the message across to newbies that BFL=BAD. If you are discovering new information that truly can assist in a court case against them then contact the FTC, FBI or someone else. Rehashing the same shit for 700+ pages won't help a newbie figure out BFL is a crook. I know everyone in that thread is passionate about seeing justice, as you should be, but you still need to think about the reason for that thread and who is letting you do it.
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If it's a scam accusation thread then why is it in Mining>Hardware? The whole fucking thread is off topic!
How long has it been since you put your head in the sand. Get out of here! Response: pay attention. That has been addressed hundreds of times. The mods in their infinite kindness let it stay there since people have always gone there for that thread. That's the answer I wanted, thanks. Then no one here has the right to bitch about a few posts being deleted or about collusion between forum mods and BFL. The thread should be moved but because the mods want to ensure relevant info reaches potential buyers they are allowing an off topic thread to remain but demand it serves it's purpose. How can anyone be upset with that?
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How is the connection between an active and disruptive forum participant and a BFL official considered OFF-TOPIC here Not sure. Seems at least 99% on-topic to me. Sure, one could say it may merely be an allegation, but allegations are what scam-accusation threads are for, which that thread most certainly is. If it's a scam accusation thread then why is it in Mining>Hardware? The whole fucking thread is off topic!
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This just got deleted by a mod. in the "BFL fucked us over again" thread: This is actually a rather quite relevant and nice little find (of Bruno's) that I thought adds to the topic right here too: (Xian01 tells me that this thread was created because of messages I removed in a thread about BFL)
I don't know and don't care about "dox". I removed a ton of posts that have absolutely nothing, not even any claim, of having to do with BFL, that were basically making it impossible to find the one in ten posts that were actually about BFL.
For the abstract question ... harassing people is not okay, but there are limits to what can be done about it.
I sent you a PM, bud. You know what would be interesting to know Bruno; whether the service of Stephen M. Reid as an army interrogator crossed paths with the service of a certain Korean army linguist aka Inaba aka BFL_Josh aka Joshua Ryan Zerlan... That would certainly shed some light on the entanglement of these here "actors" on BCT.... Or, maybe via their BBS days which overlap. http://markmail.org/message/azp6mfi7mrsfuqje- Steve - Systems Manager - Community Internet Access, Inc. - Gallup and Grants, New Mexico At that time Josh administered BBSs (plural) outta TN. And there it is, people! How is the connection between an active and disruptive forum participant and a BFL official considered OFF-TOPIC here Is it on topic? I've asked that question countless times now and can't get an answer. How is this guy (brush242-the doxed attorney) connected to BFL? I went back through the posts that are left and can't see it (there's still a lot of irrelevent shit in that thread BTW).
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New ATH in 2015 around $5500
That would be crazy.. n every early adopter will be immensely profited by that if it happens. but as per what I feel.. even reaching 500$ would be a challenge in itself! It's funny that everyone is predicting an ATH while the price is plummeting because of the Bitstamp news.
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I still find it super weird you can buy like "peep shows" using bitcoins. I haven't ever purchased one with this but I find it absolutely crazy that people buy that and accept it as payment!
That's like saying you find it weird that young guys fap. That's as natural and normal as eating. When I was young I fucked everything in my house while looking at my dads playboys. My mother had a fur coat that didn't need a hanger anymore. I might've said it slightly more subtle, but yes, anything ero related is prone to be bought through bitcoin because of the level of anonymity. Exactly, Bitcoin is best for things like that. Oh, and subtlety just gets you ignored here.
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Bruno, I asked you in the other thread but it was deleted, what does doxing brush242 have to do with BFL? Did he work for them?
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Except for gmaxwell, who removed the dox in the Butterfly Labs thread, called it "cleaning up 10 pages of derailment", resulting in this meta thread being created, right ?
As you yourself admitted, the posts had nothing to do with BFL other than by virtue of being posted in that thread. I did also invite any complaints to come here, rather than to continue offtopic on that thread. Generally when a thread is going offtopic we'll do a cleanup on the last couple pages to push it back onto the rails. There is no use in cleaning up hundreds of pages of past topic transgressions which no one is reading anymore. Many of the points I removed also had no connection to the (also offtopic) doxing posts. SaltySpitoon, with due respect: Thanks for your support, but you're also confused. The posts in question were not related to BFL except by virtue of having been (_incorrectly_) posted in a BFL thread, and none of the posts themselves claimed to be related to BFL. By defending my (very much real) non-connection to and non-motivation to help BFL you're just making it sound like I removed something to the betterment of BFL, which I think cannot be sanely alleged. (Quite the contrary: The mass of inscrutable, unprofessional, and irrelevant rubbish on that thread makes BFL's angry customers look bad and separates them from actual information which could be used to improve their situation). He already said it. He won't be back. If he does come back to this thread it won't be to say, "oh yeah, I didn't read through them all carefully enough so I deleted things I shouldn't have because I'm unfamiliar with the topic". lol
It's quite likely that I deleted plenty of more borderline material (like the posts with nothing but pictures of chickens) that I might not have deleted as single isolated posts. This is the norm for pushing a thread back on topic. I used a similar approach (periodic aggressive removals) with reasonable success in some of the prior KNC threads. Did you do that just to spite me? ROFL
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