- Was Jambler doing the mixing in the background? Yes.
- Was Jambler advertising itself as "taking property, improving its privacy somehow, and then returning roughly the same type of property"? No.
- Was that required criterion to classify it a mixer? Yes.

So, according to his precise criteria, it's not a mixer. It's a mixer if we slightly change the criteria, just as Coinbase is a mixer under the appropriate criteria.

If it's "Forum Only For Fun", it's a deep one.

Could also be "Free only for fun", but I'm brute forcing the seed phrase at this point.

I still think that "Fuck OFF" is the most accurate way to describe the situation, though.  

Not very wise choice of words. 

Is it "full only for fun"?

"Fight Only For Freedom".

I can put the word "fed" there, but I'd have to swear again.

Find me another manager who takes care of his participants like that and always acts professionally, against all odds.

Fuck OFF!

Don't know if it's that really. Don't care. Fuck off.

Even the testnet is nowadays congested: https://mempool.space/testnet.

388,752 TXs, what's being tested there, lol.

Edit: I see  : https://mempool.space/testnet/tx/3073860d17c1202b2473f5293cf7e29fdc0cf56d2175ba1b98adcfabd430da03

Jambler is presented primarily as an investment platform already. And I don't think it would be appropriate to play a cat-and-mouse game with the admin. If he doesn't like something, the forum is his. Be it mixers, investment platforms, or perhaps decentralized protocols which I predict is the next target if his actions are highly influenced by state actors.

Both perform blockchain analysis. The difference is that Wasabi performs and funds blockchain analysis for "the sake of the children", whereas Jambler does it to ensure the investors won't cheat and earn from their investments.

Παλαιότερα πίστευα πως τα οικονομικά είναι σαν την πληροφορική, την ιατρική, τα μαθηματικά. Στην πληροφορική υπάρχει μια αντικειμενικότητα. Δεδομένου ενός input, παίρνεις ένα output. Αν μια θεωρία είναι συνεπής, τότε όλοι καταλήγουμε στο ίδιο συμπέρασμα. Και στην κοσμολογία, τα πράγματα είναι αντικειμενικά και βασίζονται κυρίως στις παρατηρήσεις και σε θεωρίες / μοντέλα που είναι συνεπή με τις παρατηρήσεις. Δεν είναι τυχαίο που όλοι καταλήγουμε στο ότι η γη είναι 4 δις χρόνων, π.χ.

Τα οικονομικά είμαστε σίγουροι ότι είναι σαν αυτές τις επιστήμες; Το λέω γιατί πρώτον υπάρχει άμεσα conflict of interest. Ένας τραπεζίτης μπορεί να είναι σπουδαγμένος, αλλά... είναι τραπεζίτης. Κατέχει μια εξουσία που πιθανώς δεν τον συμφέρει να αμφισβητήσει την ορθότητά του (ή της θεωρίας του).

Επίσης, με βάση τον ορισμό της επιστημονικής μεθόδου, το πρώτο κριτήριο για να χαρακτηριστεί μια εργασία επιστημονική, είναι να διαχωριστεί το πρόσωπο (εννοεί λογικά τον ερευνητή;) από το αντικείμενο:

Όταν το αντικείμενο είναι ο ίδιος ο άνθρωπος και τα μέτρα που πρέπει να επιβάλλει στον ίδιο για την ευημερία του, δεν ξεφεύγει λίγο το πράγμα;

Βγάζει περισσότερο νόημα να πούμε ότι δεν είναι επιστήμη, και γι' αυτό υπάρχουν και διάφορες σχολές οικονομικών (Αυστριακή, Κεϋνσιανή κλπ), χωρίς να υπάρχει μία που είναι απολύτως σωστή ή λάθος. Αυτές είναι οι σκέψεις μου, δεν ξέρω, μπορεί να είμαι λάθος.

It nowhere says "money laundering" and "taint". AML services always tell you that they do blockchain analysis to prevent receiving "tainted" coins or to fight money laundering. It is quite obvious that you can launder bitcoin through the partners of Jambler, and perhaps it is their best selling point one could argue.

The closest wording to "taint" is "cryptocurrency of questionable origin", which I agree that it's vague, but it doesn't necessarily mean "tainted" with the accepted sense of the term.

Mixers do two things. Receive money (be it tainted or not) and send money, to break the link. Jambler's partners use the Jambler API to do that. You could argue that every other mixer receives "tainted" and sends "clean" coins, just as well.

---

Am I the only reading that they perform blockchain analysis to prevent investors from scamming Jambler?

Examining coins to check that the investor doesn't try to cheat the system, and examining coins to avoid receiving "tainted" coins are two different things.

I did know Jambler did the mixing in the background, if that's what you're asking. However, end-clients use other sites to mix, such as Mixtum, not Jambler per se, and partners don't use Jambler to mix in the first place. So, it doesn't fulfill all the criteria to treat it as a mixer.

BitcoinGirl literally said:

I saw Royce contacted theymos, and I thought maybe you did too. Which claims specifically? I didn't keep up with the entire discussion made in the Jambler thread, until recently.

You know what doesn't stick to this story? That theymos had no idea how Jambler works; not even seen a single diagram. The way I see it, is that some of you bombarded him with PMs, complaining that it's a mixer and it should be banned.

I don't like questioning the admin's judgment or interest, but a single visit in Jambler would make him draw his recently drawn opinion. He either didn't visit it in December / January, or he did, but thought it didn't quite meet the criteria.

They are two things, but it doesn't make much sense to have the former, if you don't have the latter. That's what I meant here:

We connect via Tor, not only to hide our IP addresses, but to register our outputs in a blinded fashion. If we didn't have Tor, we would need more than an IP address, which is impractical.

- This is the part of the code in whirlpool-cli that changes the identity during output registration: https://code.samourai.io/whirlpool/whirlpool-client/-/blob/dex-wp/src/main/java/com/samourai/whirlpool/client/mix/MixClient.java?ref_type=heads#L276.
- Here's the relevant code of Sparrow that ensures identity change: https://github.com/sparrowwallet/nightjar/blob/08fd60cd5256ce4842701c6c179c18f997fd252f/src/main/java/com/samourai/whirlpool/client/whirlpool/ServerApi.java#L62. (You can search more about "identity", the function that changes identity is changeIdentity)

How could this de-anonymize them?

They told theymos (aka, the authority), as if it was secret all this time, lol. You can read here and here.

15% discount. Saturday deal.

Strictly speaking, it doesn't. Jambler doesn't act as a mixer, in and of itself. For partners, yes, it takes property, and yes it might return roughly the same plus a profit, but it nowhere says that it improves their privacy. The point of being a partner is to earn profit.

I could go on, but I don't think it matters, because it seems that you've made your choice. You could slightly change the criteria in the OP and it'd be rightly considered a mixer. You can't beat the admin.

I think this sums all these stories up perfectly. Before 2017, if you weren't a very technical person and weren't very willing to sit down and educate yourself, chances are you wouldn't trust Bitcoin. But, I think the year 2017 was crucial. The block size war was the game changer, because it was one of the final things left to be tested in a network of that kind; surviving a community war. People disagreed on a fundamental level on how the network should operate, but the network survived even then.

As an icing on the cake, 2020 was just the next best year to get into it. The network was much more mature, however underpriced. The risk reward ratio in 2020 was perhaps the best, if I had to choose. Maybe the second best is now, fingers crossed.

Where did you get this information from? Sparrow does have a Tor connection management interface, it's bottom left when you're into whirlpool:



Read more about it:

I have never used whirlpool-cli, but I can verify that it uses Tor to connect to the coordinator as well: https://docs.samourai.io/whirlpool/desktop.

Coinjoin users should never connect with their real IP address-- always through Tor. It doesn't make sense to doubt the blindness.