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4801  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Saudi Arabian employer accused of chopping off Indian maid’s hand on: October 23, 2015, 03:53:05 AM
Come on you guys. If it is the law of their land, it is the law.

You don't see them coming over here and imposing their law on us. Why do you want to impose your/our law on them?

Give them the freedom to obey their laws just like they give us the freedom to obey our law.

Smiley

The trouble is that by supporting a regime, we automatically become at least partially culpable for whatever actions they take.  It's not just the nation of Saudi Arabia where we (the U.S.) defile ourselves in this manner, but they are one of the most egregious examples.  As far as I can tell we do less than zero to influence them to adhere to practices which approach human decency.  If we wanted to just cut them loose to fend for themselves (e.g., North Korea), that's a different thing.  A trade of them making some minimal progress toward being human fuckin' beings in exchange for our support seems fair to me.


I get it. It is your law to change the laws of other nations if you don't like their laws, and especially if you don't like them obeying their laws. Sounds like you are aggressively looking for war.

Smiley

Honestly, it doesn't seem like you 'get it' very much.  I'll say again, I'm happy to leave people to their own devices and ignore them in the case that they don't pose a threat to me.  If not 'happy', than at least I find it an acceptable and appropriate course of action.  If people are receiving support that ultimately comes out of my pocket, then I see no problem with asking them to reciprocate in one way or another which is to my liking.

I'm not 'looking for war' with Saudi Arabia, but if misfortune befell their Royal Family I would not shed any tears, and I personally would consider higher gas prices to be an acceptable price.  My reaction would be similar to when I watch a youtube vid of some gas station robber getting his balls shot off by the woman behind the counter.   That is, 'Yeah!'

4802  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Saudi Arabian employer accused of chopping off Indian maid’s hand on: October 23, 2015, 03:36:29 AM
Come on you guys. If it is the law of their land, it is the law.

You don't see them coming over here and imposing their law on us. Why do you want to impose your/our law on them?

Give them the freedom to obey their laws just like they give us the freedom to obey our law.

Smiley

The trouble is that by supporting a regime, we automatically become at least partially culpable for whatever actions they take.  It's not just the nation of Saudi Arabia where we (the U.S.) defile ourselves in this manner, but they are one of the most egregious examples.  As far as I can tell we do less than zero to influence them to adhere to practices which approach human decency.  If we wanted to just cut them loose to fend for themselves (e.g., North Korea), that's a different thing.  A trade of them making some minimal progress toward being human fuckin' beings in exchange for our support seems fair to me.

4803  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Saudi Arabian employer accused of chopping off Indian maid’s hand on: October 23, 2015, 02:46:47 AM

Then just nuke them away and take all their resources.

Normally I am a big proponent of acting ethically on the world stage if one is a superpower (and doing so would by-n-large make war a thing of the past.)  In the case of the Saudi's, or at least the Saudi Royal Family, I would be sorely tempted to suspend this principle.  As far as I am concerned they are among the most loathsome people to have ever walked the face of the earth.

It would hardly take nukes to screw Saudi Arabia.  The U.S. dropping support for the Royal Family for about 3 months would probably be all that it would take.  Anyway, we'll have no choice but to screw them eventually no matter what we would like to do when we welch on the debts.

4804  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Reddit’s science forum banned climate deniers. on: October 22, 2015, 09:48:26 PM
...

So your problem is not so much that we are being sprayed by things like aluminum, lithium, and barium, but that it's not affecting us the way they claim?

Because it's quite obvious our skies are being sprayed by chemicals. NASA admits to that on their website: Tracers - Clouds and Trails and a phone call: NASA employee admits chemtrails.

My problem is that we have no way to know with anything resembling certainty what is being sprayed where, much less the impact it has.

My solution is to choose something which is undeniable and quite probably a big problem and demand that it be studied openly.  Again, that would be the stone cold fact that we are seeing persistent trails form a dense haze which is surely blocking out solar flux over broad areas.  An open and active study of this will provide a lot of threads to tug on.

I have no doubt that all manners of things are released from sounding rockets and that bothers me not one iota.  Sounding rockets are not a feasible delivery system for any systematic program.  I suspect that other elements in fact are being released into the atmosphere on a more broad scale and there could be a number of reasons to do so.  Among the more mundane would be the introduction of elements which would make remote sensing atmospheric monitoring more precise and effective.  Much more threatening reasons exist.  This is conjecture however.  Even when people provide pretty good evidence in the form of privately commissioned sample analysis it still falls on deaf ears and the majority of the population has been trained to ignore or ridicule such results.

The concern about sounding rocket experiments reminds me a lot of the story about gasses from the operating room acting as a greenhouse gas.  Utterly laughable to worry about it due to the concentrations, but many people on the global warming panic side were suckered into doing just that.  That leads into a whole other range of 'conspiracy theories' associated with our education systems (and one's which I find pretty compelling.)

4805  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Reddit’s science forum banned climate deniers. on: October 22, 2015, 06:11:57 PM
...
"By now everyone has witnessed streaks of white trailing across the sky, stretching from horizon to horizon, ultimately turning the skies into a murky haze.

True!


We can no longer ignore the fact that our skies are being heavily polluted with aluminium, barium, lead, arsenic, chromium, cadmium, selenium, and silver. All of which attribute to a host of health problems including: neurological effects, heart damage, eyesight issues, reproduction failures, immune system damage, gastrointestinal disorders, damaged kidney, damaged liver, hormonal problems, and more.[/i]
...

Not so true.  These are hypothesis, and in my opinion some of them are fairly strong, but the statements are to general and the data is simply not available in a form which permits strong statements.  Doing so opens us up to attack.

One of the less mentioned activists on the subject, and one who I find effective and credible is a Jim Lee.  He (nearly alone) seems to have gotten off his ass and forced the EPA to have a hearing on some of this stuff associated with pollution from aircraft.  That made some of our concerns part of the congressional record and I respect him for that.

I mention Lee because he made a good point:  As you mentioned, it is undeniable that there are persistent trails which spread out into a haze.  The best 'denial' is that 'it has always happened'.  I don't remember it 'always happening', and I have been the kind of person who gazed at the sky and mused about things since childhood.  Even as a kid I had a better conceptualization about the phase changes of water and other simple atmospheric phenomenon than most because I was always interested in science.  Even if we grant that this persistent hazing from pure water vapor contrails is something that has 'always happened', it is pretty obvious that it has a strong likelihood of creating ecological changes due to solar flux changes.  If the 'environmental impacts' of this hazing phenomenon have ever been studied in detail I've run across very little information about it.  Logically, a battery of such studies on this topic would be a good starting point,  Tactically, such studies would necessarily root out information about other things which may be going on.

I find fault with some of the geoengineering crowd for proposing that Dr. Peterson's presentation to the U.N. somehow indicated that the U.N. was aware on conspiring on geoengineering and aware of certain negative effects of doing so.  I personally believe that they almost certainly are (big time!), but Peterson's presentation is in no way indicative of this which was the picture that I see as being invalidly painted.

I personally do not trust Wigington and his Geoengineeringwatch organization.  I cannot put my finger on just why.  My gut tells me that he is controlled opposition. I also find it irrational and suspicious that the most popular global warming skeptic site 'wattsupwiththat.com' strictly dis-allows any mention of geoengineering.  It is not scientific to dis-allow exploration of any hypothesis, and it seems to me that geoengineering is quite plausibly associated with some climate observations at this point in time.

I've not explored Rosalind Peterson's material which is supposed to be extensive (as is appropriate in scientific investigation.)  My sense from the minor exposure I have seen is that she is likely credible.

Lastly, I will (perhaps again) mention that I've been toying with the idea that one of the main reasons for the whole 'global warming' project is to justify geoengineering to be performed under the direction of the military, and for the primary purpose of the fairly mundane (but highly powerful) project of 'owning the weather.'  If the 1996 document https://archive.org/details/WeatherAsAForceMultiplier is not a hoax and the military (or corp/gov) is somewhat on target for '2025' then it would be expected that some of these ideas are fairly advanced here in 2015.

4806  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Saudi Arabian employer accused of chopping off Indian maid’s hand on: October 21, 2015, 05:20:01 PM
I wouldn't support the Sri Lankan practice either.
If going to Saudi Arabia is akin to slavery, then don't go.
Poverty might be bad, but there is no point in subjecting yourself to a worse fate.

That depends upon the individual perception. If someone thinks that getting raped is better, when compared to starving to death, then I won't blame that person. But then there are also reports that some of the maids are never paid for their work. I have heard of instances where maids being kept as sex-slaves being denied any wages at all for more than 10 years.

Now Saudi Arabia is going to head the United Nations Human Rights Council. Perhaps, things will change.

LOL!

In 15 short years, the highly effective United Nations is going to achieve some remarkable results.  It says so right in their Agenda 2030 action plan.  Just some little stuff like:  'End poverty in all its forms everywhere'  Utopia in our lifetime!  Won't that be great?

4807  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Reddit’s science forum banned climate deniers. on: October 21, 2015, 04:41:01 PM
....

That french weather forecaster got castrated big time tho.

Saw him gesticulating live on some TV shows, "deniying without deniyng" somehow, and specify he was jewish AND gay to try at prevent the classic ad hitlerum and homovoric conservative counter arguments, which funnily did not even worked. Cheesy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kn200lvmTZc

But don't despair.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pibqo6Z4Cgo

Fluoridation of water, vaccinations, and GMO food FTW!

4808  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin XT - Officially #REKT (also goes for BIP101 fraud) on: October 21, 2015, 02:18:42 AM
Quote
The switch to LevelDB IIRC. Which by the way, continues to suck. And caused a pretty catastrophic accidental hard fork.

... the first attempt to hardfork onto a big block chain.

I laughed hard, thank you Grin

I don't think it's a joke.  When it was recognized that there was to be a hard-fork in association with the BDB mis-config, some decisions had to be made very quickly.  I'm pretty sure that certain people seemed to be lobbying to nix the 1MB block limit at that time because it was a convenient time to do so.  Even by that time it had been a source of heated debate for at least a year.

I was not (and am not) and 'insider' so my visibility into things is limited and based somewhat on intuition and reading between the lines, but I'm pretty sure I remember things this way, and I'm pretty sure that it was the likely suspect who wanted to use the event as the excuse to bloat things.  The event and decisions ultimately made had several main impacts on me:

 1) It gave me to much confidence in Gavin's disposition and judgement and it took longer than it might have for this to wear off.  It would have been interesting to be a fly on the wall when some of these decisions were being made in the heat of battle.  Perhaps I mis-estimated how much impact he had and/or on which side of the equation.

 2)  I've felt very strongly about the bloat issue since I got hooked in in 2011.  The bloat attempt associated with that event was so upsetting to me that I bought a couple of domain names and expended some effort imagining how Bitcoin might scale without killing it, and in the event that the 'dark side' won the battles and the rest of us had to try to do some sort of a salvage operation and make the best of a bad situation.

4809  Other / Politics & Society / Re: What's your opinion of gun control? on: October 20, 2015, 08:05:27 PM

Gun control with crime involved is pointing to a breakdown of society. People who are desperate will gradually move to the countryside. There are lots of lands around America that are only owned by government. People will form their own small governments as they join together with their guns to battle off forest rangers, kinda like the Bundy incident, but with folks living on the land that they take over because it is the only logical desperate measure.

With communications as they are, the face of America will change as these groups strive to help each other.

Smiley

The desperate moving to the countryside is not what I'm seeing.  If anything it is just the opposite as regulations and financial snares (health care in particular) make it non-viable for people without moderate means to make a living.  As for the crime in my rural area, it seems to be almost exclusively home-grown jackasses.  That is to say, I'm not aware of criminals from the more metro areas setting up shop out here (which, again, I attribute to the high rate of gun possession and the relative simplicity and effectiveness of local monitoring by citizen groups.)

My read of the future is pretty much the opposite of yours.  Those more on the margin will be lured into 'human settlements' by various social services (e.g., free food, child care, etc.)  The more rural areas which are allowed to remain inhabited by humans will be part time homes for the well off with enough 'responsible' citizens allowed to remain permanently in order to keep an eye on things.

I can pretty much promise that those who remain in the 'upper middle class' or above are not going to be living in stack-n-pack shoe boxes in the 'human habitat' zones and riding bicycles or taking buses everywhere.  They will fund the propaganda to convince the plebs that 'this is what everyone wants', but they have no plans to herded into that nightmare.

4810  Other / Politics & Society / Re: What's your opinion of gun control? on: October 20, 2015, 05:30:58 PM
I strongly support private gun control. Police does nothing most of the time.
Guns can be used only to save yourself from danger. And I think it is fair use.

What seems to be the case in the USA is that when the bad guys think there are probably some guns in and around an area, they avoid it.  It doesn't matter if it's one gun or a hundred.

For example, they don't attack the local AR15 club meeting or the Glock two day training sessions.

They attack the defenseless old lady at the bus stop, or the school cafeteria (gun free zone).

Hence, instilling that fear into the bad guy is what is important, more so than having a weapon for your own protection or that of those you love.

What is sought is the creation of a cultural milieu in which the bad guy is scared to make bad acts.

They are basically cowards....   

I would not say that engaging in almost any form of crime is 'cowardly.'  There are a variety of risks, but having one's face peeled off by a shotgun blast is certainly one of the more emotionally potent.

Much crime is driven by desperation and some by run-of-the-mill stupidity and lack of self control.  These classes are the ones who end up losing most often and are certainly the ones who pose the bigger risk to the innocent victim.  Criminals also victimize one another probably at least as often as they do the innocent.  When the FBI studied the problem of 'guns', they realized that for most criminals, not possessing a gun was a non-option largely because of this.  Thus, the strategy of making use of a gun in the commission of a crime carry extra-high penalties.  This was remarkably effective which is why real gun problems (as opposed to phony staged 'active shooter' events) have been declining significantly over the last four decades and are now at very tolerable levels.

I'd say generally that criminal are business people in a particular business and make rational cost/benefit analyses just like any other people in any other business.  As a gun owner I do my best to make sure that criminals are cognizant of the risk side of the equation.

4811  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin XT - Officially #REKT (also goes for BIP101 fraud) on: October 18, 2015, 04:15:03 AM

... so this is where the cool kidz are hanging these days?  Cheesy

Seems that way.  I feel more at ease and comfortable when I can see my enemy.  I see a few of the clueless and probably unconnected dead-enders left, but the core kill-by-bloat folks have gone mighty quit.  I think it highly probable that they have formulated or are working on a new strategy.

4812  Other / Politics & Society / Re: What's your opinion of gun control? on: October 18, 2015, 03:51:18 AM

Basic backround checks, allow people to carry weapons openly and concealed.

I'm from a fiercely pro-2nd area and I've almost never seen anyone open carry.  It makes one look like a jackass and that has been the case for at least as long as I've been around.  I do 'open carry' on my own property from time to time.  Only when I need to go check the driveway to see why the alarm went off in the middle of the night, or at certain times of the year when there are a lot of bears around.

I hate to say it, but basic background checks make reasonable sense.  As far as I can tell they are already in place...I have to have one run every time I buy a firearm.  It doesn't break my heart if ex-cons (violent ones) cannot legally get a gun, but the flip side is that potential for abuse is a clear danger.

I'm highly negative about 'mental health assessments' for anything, and especially not for gun ownership.  The main reason is that one can hardly find a more fucked up and nutzo group of 'professional' than those in the mental health profession and they are the last people I'd call on to assess mental health of others.  I will bet that within a matter of a few years I would be considered some sort of a 'threat' simply on the basis of my calling bullshit on the various fairly obvious psy-ops that the government is undertaking.  e.g., the Sandy Hook hoax and in terms of 'active shooter' events, pretty much most of the rest since that time.

I would like to see some little thing such as the 'gunshow loophole' (if it even exists) tied up, but a poison pill inserted.  Specifically, something like any time more than 1% of the gun owner's list is rendered for the purposes of gun confiscation, the entire law and every other law which touches on the 2nd becomes null and void and the gun ownership list must be destroyed.

4813  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Blocksteam side chain released on: October 17, 2015, 09:30:17 PM
http://www.coindesk.com/blockstream-commercial-sidechain-bitcoin-exchanges/

Whaddya think?  Kinda cool that exchanges can settle off chain but should we be concerned about centralization?

It would fulfill my prediction that when Bitcoin achieves a realistic scaling solution (in this case, subordinate chains) that the price would rise.  Of course I cannot know with certainty that the good price performance over the last month is attributable to this first-cut proof of concept, but I had expected such a rise in conjunction with it.  Hopefully it will be the start of a new leg up, and hopefully the next leg up will take us into the $5000-$10,000/btc range.  If so, it would be worth the wait for me.

4814  Other / Politics & Society / Re: What's your opinion of gun control? on: October 17, 2015, 05:31:35 AM

On guns...I bought a 300 win mag today but have yet to get it in my grubby dick-skiners since I had to special order the thing.  Will be a nice addition to my growing gun collection, and quasi-necessary to utilize my land-owner preference elk tags.  I hope to take the creature from the ridge line while standing in my yard.....

Standing?  So you are going to have to put the beer down?

I'm not enough of a boozer (yet) to where that should be a problem, but I can pretty much promise that I'll have a pinch of Grizzly Green between my cheek and gum.  Always do.  Being a man-sized man I don't believe I'd have much trouble remaining on my feet, but I'll be trying to use a rest since I'm not that great of a shot.  The ridgeline is about 400 yards.


Are you able to get a couple practice shots off, maybe one every couple of days, to get it sighted in?  Maybe a target up on the ridge?

I'll certainly try.  There are horses nearby and I could probably only do it if they were out on a walk.  The other ridge lines have to many trees.  I will practice on shooting up-hill to make sure I am proficient at doing so in case the opportunity presents itself.  There are other places on my property where I could take elk but I kind of want them to feel safe in those whereas the preferred ridge leads directly down to my and my neighbor's pastures and orchards where I don't really want the them there anyway.

4815  Other / Politics & Society / Re: What's your opinion of gun control? on: October 17, 2015, 02:23:49 AM

On guns...I bought a 300 win mag today but have yet to get it in my grubby dick-skiners since I had to special order the thing.  Will be a nice addition to my growing gun collection, and quasi-necessary to utilize my land-owner preference elk tags.  I hope to take the creature from the ridge line while standing in my yard.....

Standing?  So you are going to have to put the beer down?

I'm not enough of a boozer (yet) to where that should be a problem, but I can pretty much promise that I'll have a pinch of Grizzly Green between my cheek and gum.  Always do.  Being a man-sized man I don't believe I'd have much trouble remaining on my feet, but I'll be trying to use a rest since I'm not that great of a shot.  The ridgeline is about 400 yards.


All those people shouting for gun control need to look at the science.

Like this -

According to a study in the Harvard Journal of Law & Public Policy, which cites the Centers for Disease Control, the U.S. National Academy of Sciences and the United Nations International Study on Firearms Regulation, the more guns a nation has, the less criminal activity.

...more firearms, less crime....

Read more at http://www.beliefnet.com/News/Articles/Harvard-University-Study-Reveals-Astonishing-Link.aspx?p=1#eJB0Tbj7173AvUcu.99


Unless, of course, they want to be branded Science Deniers!

That article is a keeper.  I'd want to research some of the facts before relying on them in an argument.  To bad there are no obvious footnotes.

4816  Other / Politics & Society / Re: What's your opinion of gun control? on: October 16, 2015, 02:38:17 AM

On guns...I bought a 300 win mag today but have yet to get it in my grubby dick-skiners since I had to special order the thing.  Will be a nice addition to my growing gun collection, and quasi-necessary to utilize my land-owner preference elk tags.  I hope to take the creature from the ridge line while standing in my yard, and this caliber seems like it will be up to the task.  Furthermore, since I have like 4 months to fill my tags, I hope to analyze the herd for a while and pick out a nice tender subordinate cow.  The Fish-n-Game dude would prefer smaller herds in my area for reasons associated with carrying capacity, and if one avoids taking the lead cow then the herd is not disrupted at all.

This is a nice time to thank Visa and PayPal for trying to tell me how I could and could not spend my money in conjunction with Wikileaks, and to Wikileaks for stumbling across Bitcoin as a way to skirt the financial blockade (in addition to a range of other useful info such as the text to the TPP which only multi-national corporations are supposed to be able to see.)  That was how I heard about Bitcoin, and the happy accident of fate has resulted in fun toys like my new Savage to raining down on my head.

4817  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Drug GcMAF cure for Autism? Vaccines causing Autism? on: October 14, 2015, 03:32:43 AM

I strongly believe it's all related. I saw that video and Professor Doom did another video today about the TPP. If I wasn't religious, I'd be scared of what's happening in the world these days. It's pretty sick altogether.

I'm not religious but am not scared exactly.   I'm quite concerned of course and thinking a good deal about the various courses of actions I might take depending on which path the future takes.

I really do consider the whole pharma industry in particular to be nothing less than an organized crime racket at this point.  Really!  Worse, our own government is acting as nothing more than hired muscle for their various rackets and I don't think that they do almost anything at all to protect the citizenry.  Possibly just the opposite under a scheme to transfer wealth by, at best, allowing people to get ill from avoidable dangers and remain in a chronically ill state, then using this condition to make it easy for the medical/industrial complex to shake them down.  As usual, most of the transfer of wealth goes from the middle class who managed to accumulate something worth having by working all their lives and straight into the pockets of the so-called 1%.  Like you say, it's pretty sick altogether.

Although I'm not religious and never will be, God bless.  It's increasingly hard for me to ignore the fact that some of the most reliable and out-in-front people in these struggles are those who derive strength from their faith.

4818  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Drug GcMAF cure for Autism? Vaccines causing Autism? on: October 13, 2015, 11:51:41 PM

Thx for the update and rundown MMH.  There is so much going on that it is hard to follow up on each thing.

Professor Doom1 did an update as well which is interesting.  He's been going through the TPP material leaked by wikileaks and spotted some interesting info about the efforts to get certain kinds of drugs derived from living organisms to get special treatment with respect to intellectual property rights.  He believes there might be a tie-in to GcMAF and this aspect of the TPP (and the dead doctors who were using the substance.)  For my part, I would not rule out this hypothesis and it seems worth exploring.  When one thinks about just the money on the line when it comes to oncology generally not to mention various other more conspiratorial issues, the numbers are mind-boggling.

4819  Other / Politics & Society / Re: What's your opinion of gun control? on: October 13, 2015, 03:36:14 AM
Question:
Which one of these is going to convince a psychopath to stop shooting?

img]http://www.latainc.org/Resources/Pictures/law-md.png[/img

OR



I got this eerie feeling I'm looking at a well aimed shotgun there.

WTF is that thing?  A 4 gauge!?!

4820  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Monbiot, far left Environmentalist, Admits FAIL on: October 09, 2015, 03:28:14 AM

Monbiot always had a sort of pure intellectual honesty and rigorous thinking, but still this is surprising....

http://pjmedia.com/eddriscoll/2011/05/04/prominent-environmentalist-finally-discovers-his-religions-catch-22/

[George Monbiot of the Guardian] also acknowledges the contradictory and inconsistent nature of the green solutions.  He acknowledges that there is no prospect for democratic politics to impose the draconian limits on consumption and economic activity that green dogma requires.  Every ‘solution’ the greens have come up with has a fatal flaw of some kind; none of it works, none of it makes any sense.  As Monbiot concludes,“All of us in the environment movement, in other words – whether we propose accommodation, radical downsizing or collapse – are lost. None of us yet has a convincing account of how humanity can get out of this mess. None of our chosen solutions break the atomising, planet-wrecking project. I hope that by laying out the problem I can encourage us to address it more logically, to abandon magical thinking and to recognise the contradictions we confront. But even that could be a tall order.”

This is an awesome admission of categorical intellectual, political and moral failure.  For two decades greens have arrogated to themselves the authority of science and wrapped themselves in the arrogant certainty of self-righteous contempt for those who oppose them.  They have equated skepticism about their incoherent and contradictory policy proposals with hatred of science and attacked their critics as the soulless hired shills of the oil companies, happy to ruin humanity for the sake of some corporate largesse.

Monbiot has worked his way through to a cogent description of the dead end the global green movement has reached, but he has not yet diagnosed the cause.  In particular, he remains a staunch Malthusian...

As long as Monbiot and his eco-ilk remain humanophobes with pinko-ish and eugenicist tendencies they'll be useful enough to their corporatist/technocratic enablers to continue to facilitate.  When they grow beyond these mindsets they'll be discarded like a crusty jiz-rag.

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