While I share the belief that bitcoin or something very like it will play a major role in the future, I think the road there is going to be a lot rougher.
I imagine we will see a huge boom then a bust, after that those who stick around will build the meaning full economy that will allow bitcoin or its successor to dominate.
I don't care about the busts. I am riding this pig wherever it takes me. If it tanks, I'll have a helluva story to tell. I'm sick of half measures. I'm swinging for the fences and If I strike out, so be it. I won't be some mediocre drone living a life of quiet desperation. I believe in bitcoin and I'm going for broke, knowing the risks. Amen, brother. Whatever will be, will be. When we get to whatever end, I'll be right there too. |
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Pure genus isn't it?
Yeah, the more you dig the more you find ... satoshi must have had some exposure to control system theory (not to mention the myriad other topics). If Satoshi is really a single person (as opposed to a front for an organization) the s/he is a true polymath. There is simply to many areas of expertise s/he would have required to produce something of this degree of elegance on the first try. Ociam? What? |
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Pure genus isn't it?
Yeah, the more you dig the more you find ... satoshi must have had some exposure to control system theory (not to mention the myriad other topics). If Satoshi is really a single person (as opposed to a front for an organization) the s/he is a true polymath. There is simply to many areas of expertise s/he would have required to produce something of this degree of elegance on the first try. |
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If hash declines the value of bitcoins will decline. The hash determined the value of the bitcoin, nothing else. The hash gives the bitcoin security.
Once hash decreases vale decreases. The hash has to keep growing for value to icrease.
You have your cause and effect backwards. Difficulty follows price, and averages a six week lag. So the difficulty that would match the current rally won't show up for about six weeks. The exchange price of a bitcoin is independent of the security level of the blockchain, but the security level (difficulty) is dependent upon the value. He exchange price is independent of security of the network? Are you joking? I hope so. No, not joking. It's already been shown extensively by others in other threads that difficulty follows price, and that price is not responsive to changes in difficulty. Note the search function, it does really work. |
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OK, I got it. When BTC is more widely accepted, there will be little to no demand for a payment processor like PayPal. It's the old " kill the next king while he's a baby" thing.
Yup. |
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If hash declines the value of bitcoins will decline. The hash determined the value of the bitcoin, nothing else. The hash gives the bitcoin security.
Once hash decreases vale decreases. The hash has to keep growing for value to icrease.
You have your cause and effect backwards. Difficulty follows price, and averages a six week lag. So the difficulty that would match the current rally won't show up for about six weeks. The exchange price of a bitcoin is independent of the security level of the blockchain, but the security level (difficulty) is dependent upon the value. |
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This entire thread is completely irrelevant. Harold Camping says the world is going to end in october.
I'm not impressed with his track record. If there were a way to short Harold Camping's predictions, I'd do that. |
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nazgulnarsil and Sweft, you create to-many lulz  lulzzz of making yourselves look like complete retards on the internet. nazgulnarsil was just trolling me. Sweft was getting upset and using strings of letters in conjunction that some would find offensive, although the majority here would likely have just found his attitude hilarious. |
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Listen, this is a serious problem.
People think it's beneficial to stop the reward for generating new blocks. They're wrong. They're also idiots. Maybe they're misinformed, but it's not a good position.
NO ONE should believe this. It's stupid. I don't know how people came to the conclusion.
You need to check your premises. |
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I've only been trading for a week, but all of it has been through bitcoinmarket.com using paypal. I've bought and sold with no issues so far. That's not to say the rug won't be pulled out any day... any hour... any minute now. Oh crap! now I've made myself a nervous wreck! Any way, decided to go the MtGox way, but haven't gotten my cash there yet. (stupid weekend in the middle of all this)
I think I will try and get setup on mtgox as well but with the way the market is going I will probably try and buy some with my paypal first. Hopefully they wont lock me up for making 1 transaction Surely they're not locking anyone up. I don't get what their deal is anyway. They still get fees on some of the transfers. It shouldn't matter to them what the "product" is. It matters to them because Bitcoin represents a competitor that they cannot possiblely undercut. It's like M$ response to open source software, it was better and potentially free for their userbase. They had no short term response, and their long term response was to offer a better end-user experience or simply fail. Windoze has a usability advantage over GNU/Linux (for laypersons, not geeks) to this very day; but paypal is only a payment processing agent for the existing banking system, they cannot offer a better currency because they can't control the qualities of the fiat currencies that they process. |
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Reward for blocks will stop in 2040. Yes or no? No, the block reward will not end in 2040. It will not end until about 2129. |
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What would be the most secure way to use bitcoin, or a way which is reasonably secure without becoming too inconvenient. A bitcoin bank. creighto, i pay attention to everything u write b/c your thoughts are sound. but how can u advocate a bitcoin bank it being a centralized big fat juicy target for the Feds? ppl don't store their gold at banks but instead at home in the safe therefore the Feds can't/won't do anything about that. but a bitcoin bank would be too irresistible for the banksters/gov't to raid. Most people store their cash at banks, not at home. It is simply a question of efficiency. You can trade the risk of a centralized target for being able to pool funds, building a fortress far stronger than each person could themselves build individually. And by volume, I'd wager the same is true for gold. The more gold you have, more likely it is stored in a secured depository. egold was a digital gold bank. they got taken down. why can't this happen to a bitcoin bank? and please clarify what u mean by a fortress? He means that, like a bank vault is more cost effective security than 100+ home fire safes; a single bitcoin bank online secured by the skills of a cryptogeek and the latest and greatest hardened linux os is more cost effective security than those same users witheach running their own client that is continuously accessible to the Internet. yes, but all the encryption security in the world won't stop the thugs from walking in the front door and taking the server away with a fork lift. True, but you have to get to it first. It's probably easier to do that in your own home than it would be to a bitcoin bank server, as I have seen how secure datacenters that specialize in ecommerce are. Hacking from outside the network really is the weak link. |
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Interesting thread... I recently heard about a way someone sells "previously abandoned" bikes here in NYC. Buyer contacts seller, and gives his address (or convenient area). Buyer places the bike, locked up in the area and gives the location of the bike to the buyer. If the buyer approves of the bike (visual inspection, etc), and payment is made - then the seller sends the combination to the lock and the transaction has been made - with no physical interaction. The seller remained anonymous the entire time, and was in complete control of where he placed the bike. Taking that same process in to the thought process being used here, one could use something like http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200306973_200306973. Simply use a bike chain, and hook up this padlock with the chain somewhere (not really that odd since there are tons of bike chains sans bikes in NYC). The padlock contains a compartment that can only be opened by knowing the combo - once the bitcoin transaction has been completed, the combo is provided to the buyer. More shots/info of the linked lock: http://www.iwebstall.com/master-lock-5400d-select-access-key-storage-box-with-review/A variation on this theme would be depositing stuff in bus depot lockers, or gym lockers, or school lockers. The issue of course is security cameras with these places. This would let people trade larger items anyway. Realistically the seller is not the one at risk if the item is placed in the mail. The buyer takes all the risk. A market demand for a locker space on private property, guaranteed without surveillance? Swipe card key opening or combination, sent in mail granting access to locker. I've actually considered this before. But there is no way to assess the market, nor is there any way to advertise your services to the local target audience without also risk of alerting the LEO's. |
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would anyone else be interested in an additional online wallet to compete with myBitcoin?
Yes. |
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What would be the most secure way to use bitcoin, or a way which is reasonably secure without becoming too inconvenient. A bitcoin bank. creighto, i pay attention to everything u write b/c your thoughts are sound. but how can u advocate a bitcoin bank it being a centralized big fat juicy target for the Feds? ppl don't store their gold at banks but instead at home in the safe therefore the Feds can't/won't do anything about that. but a bitcoin bank would be too irresistible for the banksters/gov't to raid. Most people store their cash at banks, not at home. It is simply a question of efficiency. You can trade the risk of a centralized target for being able to pool funds, building a fortress far stronger than each person could themselves build individually. And by volume, I'd wager the same is true for gold. The more gold you have, more likely it is stored in a secured depository. egold was a digital gold bank. they got taken down. why can't this happen to a bitcoin bank? and please clarify what u mean by a fortress? He means that, like a bank vault is more cost effective security than 100+ home fire safes; a single bitcoin bank online secured by the skills of a cryptogeek and the latest and greatest hardened linux os is more cost effective security than those same users witheach running their own client that is continuously accessible to the Internet. |
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Phoneticly that can be confusing. But using a phonetic alphabet would work...
Bitcoin
.1 = Alphabit
.01 = Bravobit/Betabit
.001 = Charliebit/Gammabit
and so on.
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What would be the most secure way to use bitcoin, or a way which is reasonably secure without becoming too inconvenient. A bitcoin bank. creighto, i pay attention to everything u write b/c your thoughts are sound. but how can u advocate a bitcoin bank it being a centralized big fat juicy target for the Feds? ppl don't store their gold at banks but instead at home in the safe therefore the Feds can't/won't do anything about that. but a bitcoin bank would be too irresistible for the banksters/gov't to raid. Banks do exist for sound economic reasons. Convience is a sound economic reason. Mybitcoin.com is functionally a bitcoin bank. I have no doubts that once the market matures and the value of a bitcoin stablizes, that Mybitcoin.com and all of it's competitors will offer bitcoin CD's and short term credit lending in bitcoin. I might even use them for that purpose to a limited degree, but most of my bitcoin savings sits in an independent wallet.dat on a 128 meg thumbdrive locked in a firebox. That's very secure, but it's damned inconvient. Banks of all kinds thrive at the intersection of security and convience, and some people are going to use them. But if the government attempts to co-opt them, users will withdraw their funds and/or move them to similar banks out of country. It's not impossible for the US government to get to mybitcoin.com, but the fact that mybitcoin.com is based in a server in New Zealand does represent an obstacle. |
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Isn't every bitcoin bought a bitcoin sold? (Except for the minute 50 btc / 10 minutes added to the system?) Yes, for every successful trade the must be, by defintion, a seller and a buyer. This is true whether the bitcoin is being traded for US $, Euros, carrots or alpaca socks. Even the block reward can honestly be considered a trade, of sorts, as there is a definable amount of hashing power (or electricity if you prefer) that had to have been contributed to the security of the system for that block to have been found. From a certain perspective, all 21 M bitcoin can be considered to exist, it's just going to take some time for the algorithim to pay it out in trade for calculations. There is no free lunch in bitcoin, not even for the miners. Every transaction and reward in bitcoin represents value in motion; otherwise it wouldn't move. |
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if you are looking for some low-risk investment then look elsewhere Who mentioned anything about Bitcoins being an investment. I want to use them for what they are meant to be used for, an alternative to mainstream fiat currencies with which to buy and sell goods and services. No one is going to be doing that until things settle down, be that with Bitcoins being worth $0.20 or $200, or who knows where. An ecommerce site can simply peg their fiat currency prices into a script that uses the 24 hour volume weighted average price from bitcoinwatch.com, and the script update the bitcoin prices each morning. Yes, the exchange prices are very volitile as of late, but they were between 5 and 7 cents for months at one point. The bitcoin rallies go in fits, this one will level off like the rest. Sure, currencies can be used as an investment tool, but that's not their primary purpose. Today their value gone up 20%. Seriously. How can you use something like that trade. If you owe someone the equivalent of US$100 in the morning, by the afternoon you owe them US$120.
You can't really owe anyone anything in Bitcoin yet. There is no credit system. You pay the price when you order it, just like you would if you were ordering from anywhere else; using paypal or a credit card. If the price changes before the product arrives, that is neither your problem nor your gain. The bitcoins are in the possession of the vendor within an hour, and they can choose to sell them on the exchanges immediately if they wish. I'll come back whenever things have settled down and buy in at US$0.20 a Bitcoin or US$200 a Bitcoin, I won't care which, it's just a number. As long as it's worth roughly the same amount a week later I'll be happy.
If we ever see 20 cents again, the system has failed. I predict that it'll settle down soon around $25 per, and stay between $20- and $30 for a couple months before it shoots to $100 in the fall or winter. We shall see how good I am at this. |
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+1 for Tori Collis
Kids loved the cats' ears.
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