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5021  Bitcoin / Mining / Re: Will this rig pay for itself if it runs 24/7 for three months? on: June 07, 2011, 04:03:01 PM
Your chart assumes static price of BTC/$ in relation to difficulty which is simply not true so far.
/fixed  Roll Eyes
5022  Bitcoin / Mining / Re: Mineral oil cooling on: June 07, 2011, 02:32:27 PM
No, just no!

What is not mentioned in these reports is that mineral oil thends to (whatever the real english word is...) "crawl" through narrow channels due to the capillary effect.

This means ANY cable you attach to another cable/socket in an oil PC will start after a few days/weeks start to leak oil at the other end. There's areason why bluetooth mice and keyboards are recommended, normal mice will become oily within weeks because their data cable sucks up the oil. Prepare to have oil coming out of wall plugs, network cables and monitors!

On top of that, it isn't even cheap! Also you would need to take a lot of care for hot spots, as oil is not as good in conducting and storing heat as water. Add to that, that you might still need external radiators, as the surface of your aqarium/bucket might not be enough to dissipate that heat.
5023  Bitcoin / Mining / Re: Will this rig pay for itself if it runs 24/7 for three months? on: June 07, 2011, 02:24:15 PM
    • After the three months I will be selling all the bitcoins I generated through Mt Gox.
    [/list]
    This is the 2nd highest risk option that you can have in mining at all. Highest risk would be to keep your BTC even beyond these 3 months, lowest risk would be to sell them as soon as you get them until you broke even.

    Don't do this, unless you can afford to loose as much as: (electricity + time invested + initial hardware - whatever the hardware is worth after selling it).

    A possibility would be to do some kind of futures contract, like "I will hand over 80% of the "0-variance Bitcoins" I have mined with a 600 MH/s machine until x. September 2011 (it can be calculated and prooven by looking back how much you can expect at that time then) for a price of 1000USD at that day". This guarantees your income, gives you a 100 USD bonus, a free rig that you can then use to really mine and 80% should be enough for private miners to keep as uptime (since you would loose out a bit due to errors, bad luck etc.). The other part of that contract would get some potentially cheap bitcoins. On the other hand it could also be that these bitcoins then are very expensive, but that's not your risk any more.
    5024  Bitcoin / Mining / Re: Why is there no PyCUDA port of POCLBM? on: June 07, 2011, 10:00:52 AM
    There's something wrong if we have a card that can perform side by side with a 6950 (GTX 570) in 3D applications of parallel processing/SP calculation but only 1/4 as fast in decoding bitcoin blocks.
    Bitcoin is an integer algorithm, neither DP nor SP power is needed there.

    You can try to do the port yourself though as pyoclbm is Open Source, good luck!
    5025  Economy / Marketplace / Re: 2-3 free bitcoins? on: June 06, 2011, 10:51:20 PM
    If you just want to test out bitcoins, go to the testnet - the faucet there should still have a few thousand coins.

    Keep in mind though that the testnet is just what it says in the name: NOT bitcoin! You won't be able to cash out, but you can try the client if you want.
    5026  Bitcoin / Mining / Re: [gbyte.dk] Proportional on: June 06, 2011, 10:46:22 PM
    Uhm... don't input 50 but instead 50 + whatever transaction fees were mined when splitting the reward?!

    I didn't write the backend of his pool, how should I know "how to enable the feature"?  Huh
    5027  Economy / Marketplace / Re: Need Loan for mining on: June 06, 2011, 10:39:31 PM
    For sure no loan in BTC! Wink

    Just go to a bank and ask for a credit for a new computer if you really need it... keep in mind however that you might not be able to pay it back with the earnings of Bitcoin mining. Ever.
    5028  Bitcoin / Pools / Re: BTC Guild - 0% Fees, Long polling, SSL, JSON API, and more [~550 gH/sec] on: June 06, 2011, 10:19:54 PM
    I'm pleased to announce an upcoming development for the pool.  After the new servers are put online and the pool is successfully sharded between them, I will be posting a game plan for what steps will be taken should BTC Guild grow to the point where it's influence over the network can be seen as a bad thing (same thing going on with DeepBit currently).  I won't be able to give a clear example until after I've successfully split the pool across multiple servers.

    The current load on the pool indicates that BTC Guild will be processing around 750 GH/sec within 24 hours of the new servers come online, and our growth in the past points to 1 TH/sec shortly after that (assuming the 3 servers are stable for a few days).  I'd rather have this plan in place and ready to execute when we reach 30-35% of the network, rather than waiting to look for a solution until reach 45-50%.  Starting early will give us time to discuss the weaknesses or additional transparency that will be needed to pull it off.

    You could open an account on other pools and get a few thousand "getworks" from there...! ;-)

    If they are 0% fee pools this won't even cost you a lot (it might cost you a bit, as you won't get transaction fees...)

    Oooor... you could pool hop in other proportional pools with the entire pool, netting you even more profit than mining yourself! Cheesy
    5029  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Is this statement True or False about Bitcoin on: June 06, 2011, 09:40:51 PM
    I won't say who via twitter but a #Hacker, #engineer, #entrepreneur. #Consultant had this to say

    "You could shut Bitcoin down with a DDoS that would cost under $1 million to execute."

    I would rephrase it to:

    "You could severely disrupt Bitcoin with a DDoS that would cost under $1 million to execute."

    Reasons/Targets:
    Attacking main pools + the IRC channel as single point of failure would make transactions VERY slow to process. Once 3-4 big pools are down, it takes ~1 hour to mine 1 block + the miners WON'T solo mine but try to switch to other pools (if even) effectively DDOSing these to death too. Miners are more like sheep, they seem to like to be in herds! Wink

    As a result the exchange rate on MtGox would plummet, if some more alert miners cash out, then skyrocket again if some investors have any money lying around. Chaos + Confusion will break out.

    I think you will cause a nice weekend and a deep dent in the global hashrate with this, in the end it won#t bring Bitcoin down though, and might very likely even lead to more popularity of BTC than before (if it is really a big attack, not just a DOS attempt at 1 single pool). It might however shatter trust a bit, making people more alert with what they are doing with their money...
    5030  Local / Deutsch (German) / Re: rottbank on: June 06, 2011, 09:23:29 PM
    Schon mal Euros in der Hand gehabt?!

    Zumindest beim 10€ Schein bleiben bei einer "Drittelung" 2-3 Stellen der Seriennummer am 2/3 Teil.
    Außerdem sind Seriennummern je nach Notenbank unterschiedlich groß gedruckt.

    Nettes getrolle, aber da offenbar nicht mal der TE von diesem Konzept überzeugt ist (und es NICHTS mit BTC zu tun hat) würde ich darum bitten das Thema zu schließen.
    5031  Bitcoin / Mining / Re: [gbyte.dk] Proportional on: June 06, 2011, 08:12:40 PM
    This one might be the first, that's why I'm asking.
    5032  Bitcoin / Mining / Re: Think I just solved the pool problem. on: June 06, 2011, 05:07:00 PM
    Doing so just hurts you, and someone else will come up with a winning share eventually. This is a generic problem with pools and I can't fix that today. Additionally, oblivious shares are tricky to get right and require centralized trust, which is something this system is intended to *avoid*.
    Not if I want for example to manipulate the pool down.

    Imagine Tycho directing his entire pool (or even just parts of it) to a pool like this, creating insane amounts of (valid) shares but just filtering out ones that are >= current difficulty to artificially lower your income.

    He would even gain BTC on payouts(!), meaning he'll save money for servers while making sure your pool gets less attactive (as payout is less than in other pools). It then only depends if it would be chaper to buy the remaining BTC (or pay them out of his own pocket/fees) or not to sustain a "leeching attack" like this. (nothing against Tycho here, he just stands for $random_huge_pool_operator - and I don't suspect him in any way to do something like that!)

    In the end you'd pay a pool with hashrate X but get BTC for a pool with hashrate X - Leechers. As this attack is not really statistically detectable, people would then start to accuse you of stealing/manipulating stats etc.

    In the long run it might even pay off to become the biggest fish in the pond (there is no logical reason atm. for example why you should mine exclusively at deepbit, still people are doing it  - nearly 50% of people!) to sacrifice a little income if you can eliminate competitors.
    This is also why I think this attack is more serious than pool hopping - the latter is a statistical attack and can be countered with rating shares. This one can only be countered with oblivious shares, and as you said they require rewrites and might be likely to go wrong.
    5033  Bitcoin / Mining / Re: [gbyte.dk] Proportional on: June 06, 2011, 04:37:22 PM
    No, I mean the transaction fees that are mined.

    You gain 2 parts of money with a block:
    (currently) 50 BTC out of nowhere and the transaction fees of transactions within that block (usually something around 0.1 BTC/block, sometimes more, sometimes less)

    It is anticipated that in the future, once generation fees get lower and lower, transaction fees will be the main income of miners.
    5034  Bitcoin / Mining / Re: A Bitcoin Mining Company - SkepsiDyne Integrated Node on: June 06, 2011, 04:34:42 PM
    I don't, as there might be the case that someone wants to buy for example up to 5000 shares, has only money for 3000 in his account and is in the process of setting up a transfer to get the money for the remaining 2000 too.

    As timing can be very important, it might be that he buys already a few hundred shares and the rest after the money arrives due to some fluctuations.

    I don't really see this as an issue honestly, it might be even better to just display values and no amounts of shares in offers and asks, as these cannot be relied on anyways. Also not with the new change (I could try to buy 1 share at SIN and another at dishwara while having only 1 BTC, so once one of these two is bought the other order goes the way of the dodo).

    This would just lead to people with a lot of money on GLBSE trolling compared to anyone being able to put up inflated sells/orders.

    A possible solution would be then to freeze any money/shares that you offer - but this again limits the ability to bid on several assets.
    5035  Bitcoin / Mining / Re: CPU Mining on: June 06, 2011, 04:23:56 PM
    I was under the impression that the mining was 2 part.
    one to solve a block and the other to support confirmations of transfers of coins from one person to another.
    that is basically why i decided just to let 'em run. To support the validation of the transfers.  Am i wrong? or is this all about mining and finding coins.

    You get paid in 2 parts when solving a block: 1 part "out of thin air" (cut in half every ~2 years, currently 50 BTC) and the other part from transaction fees.

    You help the network ONLY by solving blocks. If you mine for some time and not solve any block, you could have not mined at all, and the network would look the same.
    5036  Bitcoin / Mining / Re: [gbyte.dk] Proportional on: June 06, 2011, 04:18:51 PM
    Yes there is a 2% fee, and I will use this fee to pay for the servers. Whatever is left over, ill use for competitions or the like to benefit miners.
    Still (kinda) unanswered:
    Who gets to keep transaction fees - are they paid out to miners?
    5037  Local / Deutsch (German) / Re: Wie kann ich BCT von Mt.Gox auf meinen Bitcoin Client überweisen? on: June 06, 2011, 04:15:23 PM
    Kann ich die jetzt eigentlich vermehren, indem ich z.B.: mit einer Vertrauenswürdigen Person die Coins Tausche, oder hat das nur den Sinn, das diese nicht mehr zurückverfolgt werden können?!
    Ähm, das ist wie Bargeld...

    Wenn du wem anderen 50€ in die Hand drückst, werden die NICHT automatisch mehr, außer der andere gibt dir dafür 100€ zurück.
    5038  Local / Deutsch (German) / Re: rottbank on: June 06, 2011, 04:13:13 PM
    hier schreibt ein nichtraucher (-:
    eurott haben auch ihre regeln :
    als erstes gibt's ein verfallsdatum.
    als zweites : wer schneidet wirklich ?
    als drittes : der aktuelle "besitz"stand ist öffentlich
    von "beliebig inflationär und komplett unreguliert" kann also keine rede sein.
    letztlich : das verfahren ist spekulations- und betrugssicherer als die meisten regionalwährungen ;-)

    Mag ja sein, gegen BTC kommt das System aber bei weitem nicht an...

    Im Endeffekt sehe ich sogar in der "Galerie" keine größeren Mengen abgetrennter Scheine, also hat das System offenbar noch niemand wirklich in die Praxis umgesetzt.

    Zu den Regeln:
    1. Das "Verfallsdatum" laut Website ist seit einem halben Jahr um.
    2. Frag ich mich auch - wo ist hier die Regel übrigens?
    3. Wo öffentlich? Auf dieser (miesen) Website findet man absolut nichts dazu, kein Verzeichnis und auch sonst nix. Außerdem: Auch wenn ich öffentlich mache, dass ich jetzt 1000 500€ Scheine zerschnitten habe ändert das doch nichts daran, dass ich massive Inflation betrieben habe. Jeder der nicht ebenfalls gleich viele oder noch mehr Scheine zerschneidet würde somit gegen mich verlieren - und wenn meine Scheine NICHT anerkannt werden, dann stirbt das System am Misstrauen sofort wieder aus.
    4. Nein. Betrug ist leicht möglich (nachdem nicht die komplette Seriennummer auf einem Drittelschein sichtbar ist), Spekulationssicher ist es zumindest in dem Sinne, dass da kein normal denkender Mensch irgendwie echtes Geld oder echte Waren dafür einsetzen würde - es ist also auch "handelsresistent"! Wink
    5039  Bitcoin / Mining / Re: [gbyte.dk] Proportional on: June 06, 2011, 03:59:49 PM
    Damn, meant that... Wink

    Still:

    Do you have a fee, if yes how high?

    Who gets to keep transaction fees - are they paid out to miners?
    5040  Bitcoin / Mining / Re: CPU Mining on: June 06, 2011, 03:57:54 PM
    can someone calculate how long it would actually be before i solve a block?  I'd like to be depressed Thanks in advance Cheesy

    On one hand, the miner included in the old client is not the fastest one, you might mine ~ twice as fast with a dedicated CPU miner.

    On the other hand, there is only a certain chance that you might find a block - no guarantee. It can only be calculated how long it takes until it is 50%/90%/99%.... likely to have found a block in that time frame, not how long it will take.

    Since difficulty will increase most likely still a bit, my guess would be not within the lifetime of that PC you're using.

    Maybe try pooled mining, this would at least give you a few Bitcents over time and with these 0% fee pools all you loose are transaction fees.
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